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"You're Bad at Battlegrounds." Thoughts?

J_JJ_J Posts: 2
Hello. I just got done reading the "You're Bad at Battlegrounds and Thats Okay" article in the featured "News" tab, in-game. I'm not quite sure how to feel about it but I don't feel good. I understand the post isn't directed at every player but definitely at most. I'm a long-time player and agree with Jax's early statement about how we (the players) have been conditioned to thinking all content has been and will be beatable. However, is that not the essence of every "single player game." Jax even says so himself in the post, "... losing was always a temporary state." Jax's goes on to say, "on the road to find out who was best," regarding battlegrounds "we found out that literally everyone else was not." Now I can't help but feel slighted. This happens a few more times throughout the post. Jax states, "There's plenty of psychological studies to support the notion that we vastly overestimate our own abilities..." and "Summoners are misunderstanding true competition..." as well as "...are you better than all the other summoners out there? I think you know the answer." Again, I just can't help but feel insulted just because I played a game mode, in a game that I and many others are very passionate about. In regard to Jax's "Five Stages of Grief" I will agree with his point on Denial, Depression and Acceptance but I have to disagree with the other two. In regard to Anger, I will stick my neck out there and frankly state that the AI in battlegrounds genuinely seems much more sporadic and advanced than any of the AI in other game modes. Incorporating my own years of MCOC I believe I have the knowledge it takes to acknowledge when somethings seem off. At the end of this segment, Jax tells players to ".... touch some grass," and "experience sunshine." Universal gamer insults. To touch on Bargaining, one of the benefits for game companies having so many players is feedback. Having so many players with so many ideas and inputs can be overwhelming for developers, but I think the MCOC community is different in this way. The majority of community members care for the game and its longevity. If a large group of high-level players/creators see a way to potentially better a game mode or the game itself, I think that should strongly be taken into consideration. And I know that Kabam does an incredible job with handling and distributing the community voice. I'm just a little shocked to see possible feedback be shut down in this way by a post made in-game, to all players.
Now, because I'm a long-time player and a moderately involved community member, I know about Jax. We know Jax likes his goofy quips and his lighthearted comments. We also know Jax isn't afraid to call out toxic chatters in a Twitch Live chat and can have a more forward way of speaking. I did take that into consideration while reading this article. Perhaps I've taken this too close to heart. The only reason I felt it necessary to make a post was because this was done in-game at an inappropriate time and to see what others think. This post is not an attack on Jax or Kabam. This post is my own personal feedback.
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    phillgreenphillgreen Posts: 3,764 ★★★★★
    Is it here on the forums or main page somewhere?

    I'd love to read it in normal size font.
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    BamajdBamajd Posts: 75

    Is it here on the forums or main page somewhere?

    I'd love to read it in normal size font.

    In game click on news button on home page
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    PT_99PT_99 Posts: 2,708 ★★★★★
    It's not that deep,
    You either in BG or you lose in BG, accept it.
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    IlociaM97IlociaM97 Posts: 156

    ChatGPT summary for those of us that can't read all that:

    Hello.
    I just read the "You're Bad at Battlegrounds and That's Okay" article in-game and felt uneasy. As a long-time player, I agree with Jax's point that we've been conditioned to think all content is beatable, but his comments about players' abilities felt insulting. His remarks on players overestimating their skills and misunderstanding true competition seemed dismissive.

    Regarding Jax's "Five Stages of Grief," I agree with Denial, Depression, and Acceptance but disagree with Anger, believing the battlegrounds AI is more advanced than in other modes. Jax's comments about "touching grass" were especially insulting.

    Feedback from the large player base is valuable, and the MCOC community cares about the game's longevity. I was shocked to see feedback dismissed in this way. Knowing Jax's straightforward and humorous style, I might have taken it too personally, but I felt it necessary to share my thoughts and see what others think. This isn't an attack on Jax or Kabam but my personal feedback.

    -

    I haven't read the article nor really play BG so I don't have an opinion on the subject.

    You are the hero we needed
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    J_JJ_J Posts: 2
    edited May 16
    Kabam Jax said:

    Hi. I'm sorry you felt slighted.

    It's not meant to be that deep. It's a light hearted, tongue-in-cheek, teasing message that's meant to poke fun. The message is two parts, with the second piece meant to be the takeaway of: none of it matters, "that's okay." I felt using, as you call them, "Universal gamer insults" would be a key indicator toward satire.

    When discussing how the team "receives feedback" there's a number of misconceptions we frequently see. Number one is: just because there is feedback, it does not mean it will result in change; trust me, you wouldn't want to play a game where the developers bend to every demand of every player. There are times that the community wants things and game developers know that what they want is not what's good for the game. We've discussed this game mode's design intent repeatedly, endlessly and there are still many who misunderstand the framework of true competition. So, it doesn't mean we "aren't listening to feedback" - we just also know that bending to the desires of that subset of Summoners would be detrimental to the game mode. Most times when people are asking to make the mode "fairer" they're really just asking for it to be easier for them specifically, ignoring the ripple effects and the impact it would have on the game, the mode and the community as a whole.

    Another misconception we all need to be cautious of is thinking that our bubble represents the entirety of the community. These forums are an echo chamber, line chats and alliance chats are even more so. It's something we have to take into consideration as Community Managers all the time. Consider that not everyone playing this game speaks English, not even close. What about the people who read a post or two on the forums and give it big ol' miss? Just because we hear "yeah you're right" in our bubble, does not mean we represent the opinions of the community at large.

    You're right Jax. I think I took it to heart more than I should have. I appreciate you getting back to me!
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    Colinwhitworth69Colinwhitworth69 Posts: 7,206 ★★★★★
    edited May 16
    I already knew that most people were better than me. And I don't care about losing in BGs.

    I just want to have fun playing a video game on a mobile device. As that regards BGs, my issue is more with:
    • The nodes making it feel like a chore
    • Kabam constantly releasing super hard defenders, making BGs sometimes more painful than fun
    I have a decent roster and I can make it into the GC if I want, but I don't find it worth the effort (translate: it ain't fun to slog thru just to get a few more virtual doodads).

    I think it is great to have a hard mode for the really good players who enjoy that, so maybe you could consider two levels of BGs, or two versions of it? One that makes the sweaties sweaty and one that is more fun and less punishing, but with lesser rewards.
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    GrO_ot78GrO_ot78 Posts: 488 ★★★

    I already knew that most people were better than me. And I don't care about losing in BGs.

    I just want to have fun playing a video game on a mobile device. As that regards BGs, my issue is more with:

    • The nodes making it feel like a chore
    • Kabam constantly releasing super hard defenders, making BGs sometimes more painful than fun
    I have a decent roster and I can make it into the GC if I want, but I don't find it worth the effort (translate: it ain't fun to slog thru just to get a few more virtual doodads).

    I think it is great to have a hard mode for the really good players who enjoy that, so maybe you could consider two levels of BGs, or two versions of it? One that makes the sweaties sweaty and one that is more fun and less punishing, but with lesser rewards.
    Yes, why not make a "3* only" league where people can have fun, really test their skills and not lose 20 in a row because they face decks full of ascended R5s and 7R3s with their deck that barely has any R5s.

    (Valiant, and my deck has almost only R5s and 7R2+, a few ascended R4s and 7R1 to counter certain defenders).
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    Ayden_noah1Ayden_noah1 Posts: 1,276 ★★★★
    The version you are looking for it's called BG Friendly matches where you can relax and have a stree free battle. This mode is for those that don't want to stress about winning at all. If you have a secondary account, you can test out certain matchups to see what works for you before going live in the real BG arena. It's like a BG practice mode.
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    Wakandas_FinestWakandas_Finest Posts: 830 ★★★★
    My complaints about BG are solely about the crappy AI and how my opponents never seem to have an issue with it. And match making which is comical sometimes. I’d rather kabam not watch me up with anyone than face 3 opponents in a row with double digit r3 7*s in their decks or an opponent that has nothing but r4/7r1 in their decks. There has got to be a better way to do match making than kabam’s method, which I assume is having a blind drunk monkey throw darts at a board
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    BringPopcornBringPopcorn Posts: 3,006 ★★★★★
    edited May 16
    Jesus give everyone a pass to GC early so they can get extra frustrated about doing objectives.
    Seems like just GC being there makes people feel left out. Give them an instantly gratifying entry and then they can struggle all season long doing objectives. That way you can tell people "well that's what you wanted....now stop crying"
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    phillgreenphillgreen Posts: 3,764 ★★★★★
    Absolutely loved the article @Kabam Jax

    We sometimes forget its just a game and while I rage on occasion it's probably because I feel invested, which is a good thing while it keeps me coming back.

    When the game stops being fun, why play? Life is filled with boring but necessary chores, don't make this another one.

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    Rayven5220Rayven5220 Posts: 1,777 ★★★★

    Jesus give everyone a pass to GC early so they can get extra frustrated about doing objectives.
    Seems like just GC being there makes people feel left out. Give them an instantly gratifying entry and then they can struggle all season long doing objectives. That way you can tell people "well that's what you wanted....now stop crying"

    Best idea yet. Every damn season we see the whiners saying "omfg too hard, can never make it past so and so, bad matchmaking!!!" and it's old, so I agree.
    Let's give them all a free pass to GC where they can find out about where the competition actually starts.

    Wait til the whiney ones see the souped up nodes they're already complaining about below GC. 🤣

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    SkyfawSkyfaw Posts: 188 ★★

    As much as I love Jax and I appreciate the gesture to let people know it's okay, the stance behind it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
    BGs has been anything but smooth. It's been a work in progress. Personally I've lost the drive the last few Seasons. Now we have new Milestones in Solo, and that might be motivation, but now I have to work my way back up from Bronze, against other Players who have either lost their drive or just haven't played last Season, and it's anything but easy.
    I've been vocal in the past about changes to the Victory Track and issues that have come up, and I'm afraid more Rewards aren't going to be enough to remedy participation. Even if you maintain your Season to streamline into Plat each Season, you're coming up against the best, and you have to wait until the last week to even bother.
    Some of this is because I dropped off. Fair enough. The rest, the Players who are much earlier on than myself, have no chance in hell. They're going to keep beating their heads against a wall. The problem is the Rewards are some of the most lucrative in the game, so they're going to keep trying.
    My issue isn't that Jax shared a friendly word. It's the fact that the stance is, for lack of a better word, tough. Which means people are being used because they need the numbers for Matchmaking, but also not being heard. More than that, being told their issues are just whining. Perhaps not the wording of Kabam, but it's the gist I get from everyone overall.
    The only thing I can say is listen to all Players. Not just the cream of the crop that have no problem and tell everyone else to "Git gud.". No matter where someone is at in the game, there's a person behind that Account. They'll only be told to get over it so long before they stop caring completely. Then you have a game mode that is so elitist people will lose interest.

    Not sure what it is that you expect Kabam to do. Not everyone can be winners, it’s a PVP game mode where everyone fighting for their own rewards. Just like in any other game you have to earn it and it shouldn’t be given.

    It’s unfortunate that people will turn away from BG, but it’s usually 1 of 2 reasons why players get stuck and don’t ascend up the VT. For starters I most commonly see on the forums is that there roster is quite small and are playing against dare I say end game players. Who have roster advantage and will mostly likely win 9/10 times. This would be frustrating for anyone but at the same time why should said player get the same rewards as someone that’s at the end game. They shouldn’t it’s purely that simple.

    2nd reason I see is the skill aspect. The A.I is really no more difficult then high stakes War, Necropolis, EOP the upper echelon aspects of the game. If you’re a player who skills are refined where you can venture into these game modes and not die consistently. Then BGs A.I are nothing but a joke.

    With all that being said, to see success and to quote have a “smooth” experience. You must put in the effort everyone else is putting in. By completing story, necropolis, buying the latest deals. Your opponent is doing all these things so if you’re not then you’re most likely gonna hit the wall. So it just comes down as other people put it “git gud”.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,309 ★★★★★
    Skyfaw said:

    As much as I love Jax and I appreciate the gesture to let people know it's okay, the stance behind it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
    BGs has been anything but smooth. It's been a work in progress. Personally I've lost the drive the last few Seasons. Now we have new Milestones in Solo, and that might be motivation, but now I have to work my way back up from Bronze, against other Players who have either lost their drive or just haven't played last Season, and it's anything but easy.
    I've been vocal in the past about changes to the Victory Track and issues that have come up, and I'm afraid more Rewards aren't going to be enough to remedy participation. Even if you maintain your Season to streamline into Plat each Season, you're coming up against the best, and you have to wait until the last week to even bother.
    Some of this is because I dropped off. Fair enough. The rest, the Players who are much earlier on than myself, have no chance in hell. They're going to keep beating their heads against a wall. The problem is the Rewards are some of the most lucrative in the game, so they're going to keep trying.
    My issue isn't that Jax shared a friendly word. It's the fact that the stance is, for lack of a better word, tough. Which means people are being used because they need the numbers for Matchmaking, but also not being heard. More than that, being told their issues are just whining. Perhaps not the wording of Kabam, but it's the gist I get from everyone overall.
    The only thing I can say is listen to all Players. Not just the cream of the crop that have no problem and tell everyone else to "Git gud.". No matter where someone is at in the game, there's a person behind that Account. They'll only be told to get over it so long before they stop caring completely. Then you have a game mode that is so elitist people will lose interest.

    Not sure what it is that you expect Kabam to do. Not everyone can be winners, it’s a PVP game mode where everyone fighting for their own rewards. Just like in any other game you have to earn it and it shouldn’t be given.

    It’s unfortunate that people will turn away from BG, but it’s usually 1 of 2 reasons why players get stuck and don’t ascend up the VT. For starters I most commonly see on the forums is that there roster is quite small and are playing against dare I say end game players. Who have roster advantage and will mostly likely win 9/10 times. This would be frustrating for anyone but at the same time why should said player get the same rewards as someone that’s at the end game. They shouldn’t it’s purely that simple.

    2nd reason I see is the skill aspect. The A.I is really no more difficult then high stakes War, Necropolis, EOP the upper echelon aspects of the game. If you’re a player who skills are refined where you can venture into these game modes and not die consistently. Then BGs A.I are nothing but a joke.

    With all that being said, to see success and to quote have a “smooth” experience. You must put in the effort everyone else is putting in. By completing story, necropolis, buying the latest deals. Your opponent is doing all these things so if you’re not then you’re most likely gonna hit the wall. So it just comes down as other people put it “git gud”.
    What I "expect" is enough respect for the point of view of the Players that have issues to not be silenced, regardless of what decisions are made. It's bad enough that the other Players are jumping on every Thread where someone takes issue with BGs. It's another when in-game messages are made about it.
    Also, I'm quite sure I said Kabam didn't use those words. I didn't put them in their mouths.
    All I've spoken up about, besides my own ideas, is for people to have the right to communicate their issues with BGs without being shut down at every turn. I'm an adult. If my suggestions aren't taken, I can accept that. I also have a pretty good idea how it's going to pan out, but that's unfortunate.
    You can't have everything you want and then tell people to deal with the consequences of that. It's just not cool.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,309 ★★★★★

    Skyfaw said:

    As much as I love Jax and I appreciate the gesture to let people know it's okay, the stance behind it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
    BGs has been anything but smooth. It's been a work in progress. Personally I've lost the drive the last few Seasons. Now we have new Milestones in Solo, and that might be motivation, but now I have to work my way back up from Bronze, against other Players who have either lost their drive or just haven't played last Season, and it's anything but easy.
    I've been vocal in the past about changes to the Victory Track and issues that have come up, and I'm afraid more Rewards aren't going to be enough to remedy participation. Even if you maintain your Season to streamline into Plat each Season, you're coming up against the best, and you have to wait until the last week to even bother.
    Some of this is because I dropped off. Fair enough. The rest, the Players who are much earlier on than myself, have no chance in hell. They're going to keep beating their heads against a wall. The problem is the Rewards are some of the most lucrative in the game, so they're going to keep trying.
    My issue isn't that Jax shared a friendly word. It's the fact that the stance is, for lack of a better word, tough. Which means people are being used because they need the numbers for Matchmaking, but also not being heard. More than that, being told their issues are just whining. Perhaps not the wording of Kabam, but it's the gist I get from everyone overall.
    The only thing I can say is listen to all Players. Not just the cream of the crop that have no problem and tell everyone else to "Git gud.". No matter where someone is at in the game, there's a person behind that Account. They'll only be told to get over it so long before they stop caring completely. Then you have a game mode that is so elitist people will lose interest.

    Not sure what it is that you expect Kabam to do. Not everyone can be winners, it’s a PVP game mode where everyone fighting for their own rewards. Just like in any other game you have to earn it and it shouldn’t be given.

    It’s unfortunate that people will turn away from BG, but it’s usually 1 of 2 reasons why players get stuck and don’t ascend up the VT. For starters I most commonly see on the forums is that there roster is quite small and are playing against dare I say end game players. Who have roster advantage and will mostly likely win 9/10 times. This would be frustrating for anyone but at the same time why should said player get the same rewards as someone that’s at the end game. They shouldn’t it’s purely that simple.

    2nd reason I see is the skill aspect. The A.I is really no more difficult then high stakes War, Necropolis, EOP the upper echelon aspects of the game. If you’re a player who skills are refined where you can venture into these game modes and not die consistently. Then BGs A.I are nothing but a joke.

    With all that being said, to see success and to quote have a “smooth” experience. You must put in the effort everyone else is putting in. By completing story, necropolis, buying the latest deals. Your opponent is doing all these things so if you’re not then you’re most likely gonna hit the wall. So it just comes down as other people put it “git gud”.
    What I "expect" is enough respect for the point of view of the Players that have issues to not be silenced, regardless of what decisions are made. It's bad enough that the other Players are jumping on every Thread where someone takes issue with BGs. It's another when in-game messages are made about it.
    Also, I'm quite sure I said Kabam didn't use those words. I didn't put them in their mouths.
    All I've spoken up about, besides my own ideas, is for people to have the right to communicate their issues with BGs without being shut down at every turn. I'm an adult. If my suggestions aren't taken, I can accept that. I also have a pretty good idea how it's going to pan out, but that's unfortunate.
    You can't have everything you want and then tell people to deal with the consequences of that. It's just not cool.
    Your mentality is amazingly weird on this never ending subject. You have taken the game at your own pace, tried new things recently, managed to get deeper in the game; but when it comes down to BGs you want to be rewarded or have a similar experience to end game players.
    Its not even just the way victory track works, you have issues with the point system too. Why is it that everything else in the game you are fine with taking your own pace; but when it comes down to the most competitive mode you have issues with it?
    What's amazingly weird is how you derived that from what I said. I've already said I'm a big boy and I can accept my own situation. You're talking about the issue points I've personally had and I could elaborate on those if you like, but that had nothing to do with the point I was just making.
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    Toproller89Toproller89 Posts: 553 ★★★
    Yeah I’m bad at battlegrounds, but I just got a bit better and lowered my expectations and I don’t worry about GC. if I get to vibranium each season, that’s a good run for me.

    I had a bit of FOMO a while back and came up with some stupid ideas to try and make the mode easier for summoners like me, but that wasn’t the way to go about things.

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