Inequity Punishes Sinister Too Hard?

ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
edited May 20 in General Discussion
After quite a good amount of testing I've come to the conclusion that while he can be really strong, the Inequity mastery absolutely guts him.
Fights against a same rank defender that would normally be done in 40-50 seconds are turned into 1:20-1:30 fights which is imo too much considering you don't even need maxed Inequity to shut him down this way, level 1 is more than enough to absolutely ruin a lot of his damage.

Now, they said every buff will go through rebalancing after release so what I was thinking was this: Inequity mastery is disabled while Mister Sinister has a bleed debuff on him.
I've barely seen any threads about this so I'm curious to know if the community agrees on this or not. Does he still need a slight tune-up or not?

Inequity Punishes Sinister Too Hard? 110 votes

Yes
46%
Spity68L_217Vegeta9001Leiva_darkrcm2017MoosetiptronicGridarRayven5220Justcause102Sagacious0wlAyden_noah1HungaryHippocaptain_rogersRebarkItsClobberinTimeAcnorageMildepaMaxwell24Dfour24Doctor_Strange19 51 votes
No
53%
BitterSteelMagicBentonzuffyyossMagrailothosThereticLuke2323Mhd20034ThatGuyYouSaw235AshyKnucklesGodrohrdfmoore26FydaneSachhyam257ClynevaScopeotoe987Grootman1294AleorIKONJChanceH9 59 votes
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Comments

  • Average_DesiAverage_Desi Member Posts: 591 ★★★
    Other than dexterity, are there any champs who can turn off masteries of the opponent?
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Yes
    Pikolu said:

    He is already ridiculously good, so I worry that removing inequity will cause his damage to get nerfed in general to compensate.

    He is for the most part I agree, my issue is whenever I draft him I'm pretty much rolling the dice. No Inequity, I'm safe but if they have Inequity it's going to be a very long fight and I will most likely lose the round unless my opponent loses a ton of health cause most meta relevant champs will be quicker than him if the person is running Inequity.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    edited May 20
    Yes
    Average_Desi said:

    Other than dexterity, are there any champs who can turn off masteries of the opponent?

    Photon and Onslaught turn off willpower, and some champs get additional abilities from certain masteries like Mole-Man with Stand Your Ground, Gorr with Willpower etc.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Yes
    captain_rogers said:

    We don't need anymore champs which shut down masteries.

    You mean to vote no then lol
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 9,256 ★★★★★
    Yes
    ItsClobberinTime said:

    captain_rogers said:

    We don't need anymore champs which shut down masteries.

    You mean to vote no then lol
    Well I have felt inequity affecting sinister's damage output significantly in some matches. Still I don't want champs to shut down masteries lol. We already got enough in last 12 months 😭.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Yes
    Nemesis_17 said:

    I’ve in general thought inequity was a bit too strong, and sinister is just the most extreme case of that. The fact that it can make a champ a full 100% slower (based on the times you mentioned) is wild to me. It hurts champs like kingpin as well and makes defenders such as photon even more of a pain. Often forcing you to wait out an entire pure light form instead of just being able to nuke her down. But yes, sinister is hurt pretty majorly by it.

    This was a r2 Serpent without Inequity

    This was a r5 ascended Maestro with Inequity:

    Yeah, pretty big difference and I really don't know how else they could change it so it doesn't hurt him as much other than making him shut down Inequity while he's bleeding.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Yes
    captain_rogers said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    captain_rogers said:

    We don't need anymore champs which shut down masteries.

    You mean to vote no then lol
    Well I have felt inequity affecting sinister's damage output significantly in some matches. Still I don't want champs to shut down masteries lol. We already got enough in last 12 months 😭.
    I mean it wouldn't do anything on defense though realistically, I get people have PTSD from Photon and Onslaught lol but with the changes I suggested it wouldn't really change anything on defense, only offense.
  • Nemesis_17Nemesis_17 Member Posts: 2,391 ★★★★★
    Yes
    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    I’ve in general thought inequity was a bit too strong, and sinister is just the most extreme case of that. The fact that it can make a champ a full 100% slower (based on the times you mentioned) is wild to me. It hurts champs like kingpin as well and makes defenders such as photon even more of a pain. Often forcing you to wait out an entire pure light form instead of just being able to nuke her down. But yes, sinister is hurt pretty majorly by it.

    This was a r2 Serpent without Inequity

    This was a r5 ascended Maestro with Inequity:

    Yeah, pretty big difference and I really don't know how else they could change it so it doesn't hurt him as much other than making him shut down Inequity while he's bleeding.
    Yeah in this case not exactly 100% slower but still more than enough to where it seems excessive. I’ve hesitated to rank sinister for this reason in particular. If I can’t reliably use him on attack and he gets hard countered by any robot on defense, I’m not sure if I wanna invest into him. If inequity was out of the picture I would’ve at least r4 him by now.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Yes
    Deacon said:

    Masteries are there for a reason. These champs with turning off dexterity or will power is a game thing not a user requested thing to be able to deal with champs easier or have champs perform better.

    Usually I'm all about pro player moves but this just isn't necessary. If it is done .. then I want my dexterity back when fighting Photon or Serpent and willpower too from the champs that turn it off.

    People have to have a way to deal with champs through masteries and making yet another champ turn something off because it would make fights faster .. just no.

    As the person above mentioned, if Willpower was on while fighting Photon that petrify passive would delete you from existence faster than you can even get to a special 2 lol be glad she turns it off.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Yes
    Nemesis_17 said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    I’ve in general thought inequity was a bit too strong, and sinister is just the most extreme case of that. The fact that it can make a champ a full 100% slower (based on the times you mentioned) is wild to me. It hurts champs like kingpin as well and makes defenders such as photon even more of a pain. Often forcing you to wait out an entire pure light form instead of just being able to nuke her down. But yes, sinister is hurt pretty majorly by it.

    This was a r2 Serpent without Inequity

    This was a r5 ascended Maestro with Inequity:

    Yeah, pretty big difference and I really don't know how else they could change it so it doesn't hurt him as much other than making him shut down Inequity while he's bleeding.
    Yeah in this case not exactly 100% slower but still more than enough to where it seems excessive. I’ve hesitated to rank sinister for this reason in particular. If I can’t reliably use him on attack and he gets hard countered by any robot on defense, I’m not sure if I wanna invest into him. If inequity was out of the picture I would’ve at least r4 him by now.
    I am regretting r5 ascending mine a bit tbh, and I think I will replace him with Negasonic if he doesn't get a tune up cause that Inequity damage reduction is brutal. Good for you for holding it until people tested him, I probably should've too.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Yes
    willrun4adonut said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    I’ve in general thought inequity was a bit too strong, and sinister is just the most extreme case of that. The fact that it can make a champ a full 100% slower (based on the times you mentioned) is wild to me. It hurts champs like kingpin as well and makes defenders such as photon even more of a pain. Often forcing you to wait out an entire pure light form instead of just being able to nuke her down. But yes, sinister is hurt pretty majorly by it.

    This was a r2 Serpent without Inequity

    This was a r5 ascended Maestro with Inequity:

    Yeah, pretty big difference and I really don't know how else they could change it so it doesn't hurt him as much other than making him shut down Inequity while he's bleeding.
    Yeah in this case not exactly 100% slower but still more than enough to where it seems excessive. I’ve hesitated to rank sinister for this reason in particular. If I can’t reliably use him on attack and he gets hard countered by any robot on defense, I’m not sure if I wanna invest into him. If inequity was out of the picture I would’ve at least r4 him by now.
    I am regretting r5 ascending mine a bit tbh
    You take that back.

    Had you voted "yes" instead of "no" I would've lol.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    edited May 20
    Yes
    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    I’ve in general thought inequity was a bit too strong, and sinister is just the most extreme case of that. The fact that it can make a champ a full 100% slower (based on the times you mentioned) is wild to me. It hurts champs like kingpin as well and makes defenders such as photon even more of a pain. Often forcing you to wait out an entire pure light form instead of just being able to nuke her down. But yes, sinister is hurt pretty majorly by it.

    This was a r2 Serpent without Inequity

    This was a r5 ascended Maestro with Inequity:

    Yeah, pretty big difference and I really don't know how else they could change it so it doesn't hurt him as much other than making him shut down Inequity while he's bleeding.
    Absolutely wild to me that so many people are voting no when there's literally a 30 second difference which in BGs IS a huge difference lol to put it bluntly: without Inequity = very good , with Inequity = mid at best.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Yes
    xLunatiXx said:

    No
    He's broken. So a slight disadvantage happening only sometimes is fine.
    Plus he's not the first champ to be affected by this. I don't see complains about KP and inequity.

    What you're asking is for a guaranteed 50k score against any matchup and any players. Come on.

    A slight disadvantage? Where exactly do you play silver? Cause 30 seconds is not slight lol even without Inequity most fights take about 40-50 secs, how is that even remotely broken? He's not exactly a nuke and all he really does is shut down Bullseye better than anyone else, that makes him broken?

    How many people do you see using Kingpin these days at high level? The reason you don't see complaints is because most people just don't use him in GC to begin with and that's cause he's slow unless there are enough debuffs for him to purify and ramp up fast. These aren't even my words btw, they're Trappy's.

    The science class received more than one (four as a matter of fact) champ who can consistently get 50k over the last year or so yet that wasn't an issue for you?
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    edited May 20
    Yes
    Average_Desi said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    xLunatiXx said:

    No
    He's broken. So a slight disadvantage happening only sometimes is fine.
    Plus he's not the first champ to be affected by this. I don't see complains about KP and inequity.

    What you're asking is for a guaranteed 50k score against any matchup and any players. Come on.

    A slight disadvantage? Where exactly do you play silver? Cause 30 seconds is not slight lol even without Inequity most fights take about 40-50 secs, how is that even remotely broken? He's not exactly a nuke and all he really does is shut down Bullseye better than anyone else, that makes him broken?

    How many people do you see using Kingpin these days at high level? The reason you don't see complaints is because most people just don't use him in GC to begin with and that's cause he's slow unless there are enough debuffs for him to purify and ramp up fast. These aren't even my words btw, they're Trappy's.

    The science class received more than one (four as a matter of fact) champ who can consistently get 50k over the last year or so yet that wasn't an issue for you?
    Maan, you really can never give a reply without a little ad hominem can you?
    There are about 5 replies on this thread alone with zero ad hominem what do you mean never? Lol that "What you're asking is for a guaranteed 50k score against any matchup and any players. Come on." however was obviously passive aggressive. Therefore they receive a passive aggressive response as well, I get it though everybody likes to play victim nowadays 💀
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 9,256 ★★★★★
    edited May 20
    Yes
    Well maybe I think that's what kabam devs intended to do. Inequity is rarely useful in defense. And sinsiter by design can take a lot of annoying matchups due to his abilities let him kill opponent with less number of hits. So maybe it's intentional to cripple him with inequity.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,383 ★★★★★
    Yes
    There’s a similar issue with Ibom’s poisons, so yeah it does need addressing
  • Nemesis_17Nemesis_17 Member Posts: 2,391 ★★★★★
    Yes
    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    I’ve in general thought inequity was a bit too strong, and sinister is just the most extreme case of that. The fact that it can make a champ a full 100% slower (based on the times you mentioned) is wild to me. It hurts champs like kingpin as well and makes defenders such as photon even more of a pain. Often forcing you to wait out an entire pure light form instead of just being able to nuke her down. But yes, sinister is hurt pretty majorly by it.

    This was a r2 Serpent without Inequity

    This was a r5 ascended Maestro with Inequity:

    Yeah, pretty big difference and I really don't know how else they could change it so it doesn't hurt him as much other than making him shut down Inequity while he's bleeding.
    Yeah in this case not exactly 100% slower but still more than enough to where it seems excessive. I’ve hesitated to rank sinister for this reason in particular. If I can’t reliably use him on attack and he gets hard countered by any robot on defense, I’m not sure if I wanna invest into him. If inequity was out of the picture I would’ve at least r4 him by now.
    I am regretting r5 ascending mine a bit tbh, and I think I will replace him with Negasonic if he doesn't get a tune up cause that Inequity damage reduction is brutal. Good for you for holding it until people tested him, I probably should've too.
    I waited because I wanted to see how he’d age in bgs specifically. His buff went live right before bgs ended so everyone was testing him in RoL, with no limber and often synergies which he benefits from a lot more than other champs. I didn’t even think about inequity until I heard others mention it, but also thought “maybe the damage reduction will go away right before the degens are applied so he bypasses it,” but evidently not.

    I also feel like he’s just gonna get easier on defense to where we won’t need robots, you can basically just bait sp2s. Yea the concussion is kinda annoying but it’s also willpower. And if you have someone who doesn’t crit much or not at all, the regen isn’t gonna slow you down. I wouldn’t feel too bad about taking him up tho because you still have possibly the best bullseye counter in the game.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,383 ★★★★★
    Yes
    BitterSteel said:

    You get the benefits of having debuffs on yourself to heal with willpower the whole fight, you gotta take the negatives of inequity. It’s a trade off, it’s not balanced to have your cake and eat it

    But some champions inflict debuffs on themselves as part of their kit such as Kingpin, Attuma, Ibom, DDHK and others
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 9,256 ★★★★★
    Yes
    EdisonLaw said:

    BitterSteel said:

    You get the benefits of having debuffs on yourself to heal with willpower the whole fight, you gotta take the negatives of inequity. It’s a trade off, it’s not balanced to have your cake and eat it

    But some champions inflict debuffs on themselves as part of their kit such as Kingpin, Attuma, Ibom, DDHK and others
    Thats what bittersteel is telling, champs like attuma, ibom, kingpin, ddhk get benefits of willpower regen, so they have to handle with inequity.
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