Inequity Punishes Sinister Too Hard?

After quite a good amount of testing I've come to the conclusion that while he can be really strong, the Inequity mastery absolutely guts him.
Fights against a same rank defender that would normally be done in 40-50 seconds are turned into 1:20-1:30 fights which is imo too much considering you don't even need maxed Inequity to shut him down this way, level 1 is more than enough to absolutely ruin a lot of his damage.

Now, they said every buff will go through rebalancing after release so what I was thinking was this: Inequity mastery is disabled while Mister Sinister has a bleed debuff on him.
I've barely seen any threads about this so I'm curious to know if the community agrees on this or not. Does he still need a slight tune-up or not?

Comments

Average_Desi

Other than dexterity, are there any champs who can turn off masteries of the opponent?

Pikolu

He is already ridiculously good, so I worry that removing inequity will cause his damage to get nerfed in general to compensate.

ItsClobberinTime

He is already ridiculously good, so I worry that removing inequity will cause his damage to get nerfed in general to compensate.

He is for the most part I agree, my issue is whenever I draft him I'm pretty much rolling the dice. No Inequity, I'm safe but if they have Inequity it's going to be a very long fight and I will most likely lose the round unless my opponent loses a ton of health cause most meta relevant champs will be quicker than him if the person is running Inequity.

ItsClobberinTime

Other than dexterity, are there any champs who can turn off masteries of the opponent?

Photon and Onslaught turn off willpower, and some champs get additional abilities from certain masteries like Mole-Man with Stand Your Ground, Gorr with Willpower etc.

Nemesis_17

I’ve in general thought inequity was a bit too strong, and sinister is just the most extreme case of that. The fact that it can make a champ a full 100% slower (based on the times you mentioned) is wild to me. It hurts champs like kingpin as well and makes defenders such as photon even more of a pain. Often forcing you to wait out an entire pure light form instead of just being able to nuke her down. But yes, sinister is hurt pretty majorly by it.

Deacon

Masteries are there for a reason. These champs with turning off dexterity or will power is a game thing not a user requested thing to be able to deal with champs easier or have champs perform better.

Usually I'm all about pro player moves but this just isn't necessary. If it is done .. then I want my dexterity back when fighting Photon or Serpent and willpower too from the champs that turn it off.

People have to have a way to deal with champs through masteries and making yet another champ turn something off because it would make fights faster .. just no.

captain_rogers

We don't need anymore champs which shut down masteries.

ItsClobberinTime

We don't need anymore champs which shut down masteries.

You mean to vote no then lol

captain_rogers

We don't need anymore champs which shut down masteries.
You mean to vote no then lol

Well I have felt inequity affecting sinister's damage output significantly in some matches. Still I don't want champs to shut down masteries lol. We already got enough in last 12 months 😭.

ItsClobberinTime

I’ve in general thought inequity was a bit too strong, and sinister is just the most extreme case of that. The fact that it can make a champ a full 100% slower (based on the times you mentioned) is wild to me. It hurts champs like kingpin as well and makes defenders such as photon even more of a pain. Often forcing you to wait out an entire pure light form instead of just being able to nuke her down. But yes, sinister is hurt pretty majorly by it.

This was a r2 Serpent without Inequity

This was a r5 ascended Maestro with Inequity:

Yeah, pretty big difference and I really don't know how else they could change it so it doesn't hurt him as much other than making him shut down Inequity while he's bleeding.

ItsClobberinTime

We don't need anymore champs which shut down masteries.
You mean to vote no then lol
Well I have felt inequity affecting sinister's damage output significantly in some matches. Still I don't want champs to shut down masteries lol. We already got enough in last 12 months 😭.

I mean it wouldn't do anything on defense though realistically, I get people have PTSD from Photon and Onslaught lol but with the changes I suggested it wouldn't really change anything on defense, only offense.

Nemesis_17

I’ve in general thought inequity was a bit too strong, and sinister is just the most extreme case of that. The fact that it can make a champ a full 100% slower (based on the times you mentioned) is wild to me. It hurts champs like kingpin as well and makes defenders such as photon even more of a pain. Often forcing you to wait out an entire pure light form instead of just being able to nuke her down. But yes, sinister is hurt pretty majorly by it.
This was a r2 Serpent without Inequity

This was a r5 ascended Maestro with Inequity:

Yeah, pretty big difference and I really don't know how else they could change it so it doesn't hurt him as much other than making him shut down Inequity while he's bleeding.

Yeah in this case not exactly 100% slower but still more than enough to where it seems excessive. I’ve hesitated to rank sinister for this reason in particular. If I can’t reliably use him on attack and he gets hard countered by any robot on defense, I’m not sure if I wanna invest into him. If inequity was out of the picture I would’ve at least r4 him by now.

Rayven5220

Absolutely.
It slows him down way too much.

Rockyshocky

Masteries are there for a reason. These champs with turning off dexterity or will power is a game thing not a user requested thing to be able to deal with champs easier or have champs perform better.

Usually I'm all about pro player moves but this just isn't necessary. If it is done .. then I want my dexterity back when fighting Photon or Serpent and willpower too from the champs that turn it off.

People have to have a way to deal with champs through masteries and making yet another champ turn something off because it would make fights faster .. just no.

trust me man you do not want willpower on when you're fighting Photon. She turns willpower off because otherwise her petrify would absolutely melt you. This instance of turning off a mastery was an act of mercy.

ItsClobberinTime

Masteries are there for a reason. These champs with turning off dexterity or will power is a game thing not a user requested thing to be able to deal with champs easier or have champs perform better.

Usually I'm all about pro player moves but this just isn't necessary. If it is done .. then I want my dexterity back when fighting Photon or Serpent and willpower too from the champs that turn it off.

People have to have a way to deal with champs through masteries and making yet another champ turn something off because it would make fights faster .. just no.

As the person above mentioned, if Willpower was on while fighting Photon that petrify passive would delete you from existence faster than you can even get to a special 2 lol be glad she turns it off.

ItsClobberinTime

I’ve in general thought inequity was a bit too strong, and sinister is just the most extreme case of that. The fact that it can make a champ a full 100% slower (based on the times you mentioned) is wild to me. It hurts champs like kingpin as well and makes defenders such as photon even more of a pain. Often forcing you to wait out an entire pure light form instead of just being able to nuke her down. But yes, sinister is hurt pretty majorly by it.
This was a r2 Serpent without Inequity

This was a r5 ascended Maestro with Inequity:

Yeah, pretty big difference and I really don't know how else they could change it so it doesn't hurt him as much other than making him shut down Inequity while he's bleeding.
Yeah in this case not exactly 100% slower but still more than enough to where it seems excessive. I’ve hesitated to rank sinister for this reason in particular. If I can’t reliably use him on attack and he gets hard countered by any robot on defense, I’m not sure if I wanna invest into him. If inequity was out of the picture I would’ve at least r4 him by now.

I am regretting r5 ascending mine a bit tbh, and I think I will replace him with Negasonic if he doesn't get a tune up cause that Inequity damage reduction is brutal. Good for you for holding it until people tested him, I probably should've too.

willrun4adonut

I’ve in general thought inequity was a bit too strong, and sinister is just the most extreme case of that. The fact that it can make a champ a full 100% slower (based on the times you mentioned) is wild to me. It hurts champs like kingpin as well and makes defenders such as photon even more of a pain. Often forcing you to wait out an entire pure light form instead of just being able to nuke her down. But yes, sinister is hurt pretty majorly by it.
This was a r2 Serpent without Inequity

This was a r5 ascended Maestro with Inequity:

Yeah, pretty big difference and I really don't know how else they could change it so it doesn't hurt him as much other than making him shut down Inequity while he's bleeding.
Yeah in this case not exactly 100% slower but still more than enough to where it seems excessive. I’ve hesitated to rank sinister for this reason in particular. If I can’t reliably use him on attack and he gets hard countered by any robot on defense, I’m not sure if I wanna invest into him. If inequity was out of the picture I would’ve at least r4 him by now.
I am regretting r5 ascending mine a bit tbh

You take that back.

ItsClobberinTime

I’ve in general thought inequity was a bit too strong, and sinister is just the most extreme case of that. The fact that it can make a champ a full 100% slower (based on the times you mentioned) is wild to me. It hurts champs like kingpin as well and makes defenders such as photon even more of a pain. Often forcing you to wait out an entire pure light form instead of just being able to nuke her down. But yes, sinister is hurt pretty majorly by it.
This was a r2 Serpent without Inequity

This was a r5 ascended Maestro with Inequity:

Yeah, pretty big difference and I really don't know how else they could change it so it doesn't hurt him as much other than making him shut down Inequity while he's bleeding.
Yeah in this case not exactly 100% slower but still more than enough to where it seems excessive. I’ve hesitated to rank sinister for this reason in particular. If I can’t reliably use him on attack and he gets hard countered by any robot on defense, I’m not sure if I wanna invest into him. If inequity was out of the picture I would’ve at least r4 him by now.
I am regretting r5 ascending mine a bit tbh
You take that back.

Had you voted "yes" instead of "no" I would've lol.

ItsClobberinTime

I’ve in general thought inequity was a bit too strong, and sinister is just the most extreme case of that. The fact that it can make a champ a full 100% slower (based on the times you mentioned) is wild to me. It hurts champs like kingpin as well and makes defenders such as photon even more of a pain. Often forcing you to wait out an entire pure light form instead of just being able to nuke her down. But yes, sinister is hurt pretty majorly by it.
This was a r2 Serpent without Inequity

This was a r5 ascended Maestro with Inequity:

Yeah, pretty big difference and I really don't know how else they could change it so it doesn't hurt him as much other than making him shut down Inequity while he's bleeding.

Absolutely wild to me that so many people are voting no when there's literally a 30 second difference which in BGs IS a huge difference lol to put it bluntly: without Inequity = very good , with Inequity = mid at best.

xLunatiXx

No
He's broken. So a slight disadvantage happening only sometimes is fine.
Plus he's not the first champ to be affected by this. I don't see complains about KP and inequity.

What you're asking is for a guaranteed 50k score against any matchup and any players. Come on.

ItsClobberinTime

No
He's broken. So a slight disadvantage happening only sometimes is fine.
Plus he's not the first champ to be affected by this. I don't see complains about KP and inequity.

What you're asking is for a guaranteed 50k score against any matchup and any players. Come on.

A slight disadvantage? Where exactly do you play silver? Cause 30 seconds is not slight lol even without Inequity most fights take about 40-50 secs, how is that even remotely broken? He's not exactly a nuke and all he really does is shut down Bullseye better than anyone else, that makes him broken?

How many people do you see using Kingpin these days at high level? The reason you don't see complaints is because most people just don't use him in GC to begin with and that's cause he's slow unless there are enough debuffs for him to purify and ramp up fast. These aren't even my words btw, they're Trappy's.

The science class received more than one (four as a matter of fact) champ who can consistently get 50k over the last year or so yet that wasn't an issue for you?

Average_Desi

No
He's broken. So a slight disadvantage happening only sometimes is fine.
Plus he's not the first champ to be affected by this. I don't see complains about KP and inequity.

What you're asking is for a guaranteed 50k score against any matchup and any players. Come on.
A slight disadvantage? Where exactly do you play silver? Cause 30 seconds is not slight lol even without Inequity most fights take about 40-50 secs, how is that even remotely broken? He's not exactly a nuke and all he really does is shut down Bullseye better than anyone else, that makes him broken?

How many people do you see using Kingpin these days at high level? The reason you don't see complaints is because most people just don't use him in GC to begin with and that's cause he's slow unless there are enough debuffs for him to purify and ramp up fast. These aren't even my words btw, they're Trappy's.

The science class received more than one (four as a matter of fact) champ who can consistently get 50k over the last year or so yet that wasn't an issue for you?

Maan, you really can never give a reply without a little ad hominem can you?

ItsClobberinTime

No
He's broken. So a slight disadvantage happening only sometimes is fine.
Plus he's not the first champ to be affected by this. I don't see complains about KP and inequity.

What you're asking is for a guaranteed 50k score against any matchup and any players. Come on.
A slight disadvantage? Where exactly do you play silver? Cause 30 seconds is not slight lol even without Inequity most fights take about 40-50 secs, how is that even remotely broken? He's not exactly a nuke and all he really does is shut down Bullseye better than anyone else, that makes him broken?

How many people do you see using Kingpin these days at high level? The reason you don't see complaints is because most people just don't use him in GC to begin with and that's cause he's slow unless there are enough debuffs for him to purify and ramp up fast. These aren't even my words btw, they're Trappy's.

The science class received more than one (four as a matter of fact) champ who can consistently get 50k over the last year or so yet that wasn't an issue for you?
Maan, you really can never give a reply without a little ad hominem can you?

There are about 5 replies on this thread alone with zero ad hominem what do you mean never? Lol that "What you're asking is for a guaranteed 50k score against any matchup and any players. Come on." however was obviously passive aggressive. Therefore they receive a passive aggressive response as well, I get it though everybody likes to play victim nowadays 💀

SirGamesBond

Midnister

captain_rogers

Well maybe I think that's what kabam devs intended to do. Inequity is rarely useful in defense. And sinsiter by design can take a lot of annoying matchups due to his abilities let him kill opponent with less number of hits. So maybe it's intentional to cripple him with inequity.

EdisonLaw

There’s a similar issue with Ibom’s poisons, so yeah it does need addressing

BitterSteel

You get the benefits of having debuffs on yourself to heal with willpower the whole fight, you gotta take the negatives of inequity. It’s a trade off, it’s not balanced to have your cake and eat it

Nemesis_17

I’ve in general thought inequity was a bit too strong, and sinister is just the most extreme case of that. The fact that it can make a champ a full 100% slower (based on the times you mentioned) is wild to me. It hurts champs like kingpin as well and makes defenders such as photon even more of a pain. Often forcing you to wait out an entire pure light form instead of just being able to nuke her down. But yes, sinister is hurt pretty majorly by it.
This was a r2 Serpent without Inequity

This was a r5 ascended Maestro with Inequity:

Yeah, pretty big difference and I really don't know how else they could change it so it doesn't hurt him as much other than making him shut down Inequity while he's bleeding.
Yeah in this case not exactly 100% slower but still more than enough to where it seems excessive. I’ve hesitated to rank sinister for this reason in particular. If I can’t reliably use him on attack and he gets hard countered by any robot on defense, I’m not sure if I wanna invest into him. If inequity was out of the picture I would’ve at least r4 him by now.
I am regretting r5 ascending mine a bit tbh, and I think I will replace him with Negasonic if he doesn't get a tune up cause that Inequity damage reduction is brutal. Good for you for holding it until people tested him, I probably should've too.

I waited because I wanted to see how he’d age in bgs specifically. His buff went live right before bgs ended so everyone was testing him in RoL, with no limber and often synergies which he benefits from a lot more than other champs. I didn’t even think about inequity until I heard others mention it, but also thought “maybe the damage reduction will go away right before the degens are applied so he bypasses it,” but evidently not.

I also feel like he’s just gonna get easier on defense to where we won’t need robots, you can basically just bait sp2s. Yea the concussion is kinda annoying but it’s also willpower. And if you have someone who doesn’t crit much or not at all, the regen isn’t gonna slow you down. I wouldn’t feel too bad about taking him up tho because you still have possibly the best bullseye counter in the game.

EdisonLaw

You get the benefits of having debuffs on yourself to heal with willpower the whole fight, you gotta take the negatives of inequity. It’s a trade off, it’s not balanced to have your cake and eat it

But some champions inflict debuffs on themselves as part of their kit such as Kingpin, Attuma, Ibom, DDHK and others

captain_rogers

You get the benefits of having debuffs on yourself to heal with willpower the whole fight, you gotta take the negatives of inequity. It’s a trade off, it’s not balanced to have your cake and eat it
But some champions inflict debuffs on themselves as part of their kit such as Kingpin, Attuma, Ibom, DDHK and others

Thats what bittersteel is telling, champs like attuma, ibom, kingpin, ddhk get benefits of willpower regen, so they have to handle with inequity.