If you haven't realised it yet, Incursions are about to get even more rng dependant

Incursions have always been the most rng reliant gamemode, but normally a combination of broken champs and even more broken hacks is what makes it possible. But it's also likely that you might not get the right hacks and you have to end your run.
See that's where the problem is, the addition of 4 more boss hacks, and a lot of other additional common hacks to support them has diluted the hack pool more than people realise.

The only reason most of the community hasn't felt the impact of this dilution is because of the 5 min timers and the choice node in sector 7.

EVEN THEN, it is very clear that it's harder to get actually good hacks . I have done a lot of runs this month, and about 90% of them have ended because I couldn't get the hack required to make a set up work. Keep in mind I have done multiple runs in and outside of zone 7 with various champs (herc, Angela+ odin, bullseye, silk, Thing and many more)

What happens when this event ends and we go back to the normal timers?? When there's no choice node to assist you, it's very clear that these new "survival hacks" do next to nothing for most champs and their impact is not big enough for people to let go of their conventional incursions champs and put new teams together
Idk how they're planning to counter this dilution because it is increasing the RNG factor and in turn increasing the difficulty of an already volatile mode.

I don't wanna say anything drastic but if they're gonna keep adding useless hacks like this to dilute the pool they might as well add the selector from sector 7 to the first zone of every sector to balance it out.

CAUSE RIGHT NOW, WERE PRACTICALLY AT THE MERCY OF THE RNG TO HAVE A DECENT RUN

Comments

PT_99

Here's hoping these "15% regen if gain power when blocking" and other useless hacks are only limited to saga because damn, who's even using these

captain_rogers

Yes 3 more useless hacks now it will make it more difficult to get our desired hacks

Priyabrata

Yes 3 more useless hacks now it will make it more difficult to get our desired hacks

I just realised I made a typo and wrote 4 hacks instead of 3 lol.

Fryday

Hi @Priyabrata

This is the exact same concern I posted in the main X-Magica Incursion post
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/366659/x-magica-incursions-challenge-sector-7-20x-nightcrawler-runestones#latest

To add to this, Gladiator and Kraven is more threatening than Goldpool, on top of that we are now getting the like of Maesto as Def as well.

@PT_99 and @captain_rogers ,

It really does and unfortunately it seem like a new permanent addition to Incursion itself as a whole.

I try to run some Section 6 last night just for more extra artifact and it really show the problem.

After a number of try (thankfully for the 5 mins cooldown), I was able to get the Defensive Cascade (Armour Up/Stun), so continue on to Zone 4 and 8 hoping to get it least 1 of these other 3 Hacks to go with it (Toxic Advance, Armour Burst or at least Buff Cornucopia), but nope the useless new ones all popping up. That was 3 Boss Hack selection of 4 options, so 12 chance for any one of them and got nothing.

I thought about this during the start of Saga Incursion, but just couldn't' be bother to post it (I think I might now spend more time posting than playing lol)

What Saga Incursion have shown that Incursion as a whole is completed outdated and would need a full review to really make it work, not just adding hacks and remove some Defenders.

Firstly, originally Incursion was meant to be a coop thing, two players each taking different paths, the best strategist was to have 2 team (of 3 attackers) that would complement each other. This mean that when you get the Boss one of the 2 players can take the Boss with minimal change of Roadblock. This in turn reduce how much RNG would affect your run (it still does, but more manageable). However most people that completed Incursion now are doing it Solo but the game mode isn't design for that setting.

Secondly, Hacks use to be temporally, now permanent Hack overall is a beneficial to players, however this again also lead to impossible Roadblock, eg. "Keeping It Going" or "Compounding Harm & Lighting Fists/Pyrokinetic" against a Dragon Man Boss.

Thirdly, Incursion items (revives and potions) are all based on a fixed amount, while un-emigrating damaged Node are all percentage (50% or 25% Direct Degen fun fun fun). This might have been fine back in the day with 4* and 5*, but now at 6* and 7* facing 7* Defs, the costing is very unbalanced.

Fourthly, not really important, but does show that Incursion is outdated is timer and unable to skip SP3 in Solo Mode, it might not be much, but would sure reduce players run time on incursion. Also I have had timeout fight before due to silly Regen nodes.

Solution:
It is possible to made small changes to update and improve Incursion:-

1) Is there much financial different for Kabam between 24hrs and 5 mins Cool down time? I genuinely don't know, but assume that it can't be that much, as it shown that even with all the retry and getting the Hack you want, you still going to end up with fight that require items (which I assume where the money come from).

So why not make 5 mins Cool Down a permanent thing. Let players play a game mode more often that Kabam don't have to create, it would be a win win thing, like the AW showcase idea, more content less work.

2) For Solo Mode, there are 2 options Kabam could take,
A) Create 2 Bosses for every Zone, players can pick which boss to take, this would reduce RNG Roadblock,
or

which might work for Kabam better, is to have an option to Re-roll the RNG Boss (similar to the Re-Roll in Hack Node), players pay a small amount of units for the re-roll in hoping RNG would be on their side. It won't stop RNG Roadblock completely but at least would help, and another way to generate some unit spending for Kabam

3) Incursion Items should be review and change to percentage, it is only fair and right with 6* & 7* being use these days and against 7* Defs.

4) If solution 1) is not workable to Kabam for whatever reason (can't see why, it is an easy thing to implement), then maybe keeping the new addition from Saga Incursion for normal Incursion, All Boss Hack Node in 1st step in Zone 1, this might sound crazy, but with all of the RNG and new additional Hacks, players would need 2 or 3 Hack in combination for any change of a succession run, giving one selection from All is not gonna guarantee anything, it just help reduce RNG.

or

If there is too much for Kabam, then maybe just increase the selection from 4 choices to 5.

5) Remove timer and give players the ability to skip SP3 in Solo Mode

Well...it is nice to dream

Priyabrata

@Fryday well atleast the bosses(Kraven and gladiator)are only limited to the event and not permanent bosses...that being said none of those 2 are particularly difficult defenders it's mostly the nodes that screw people over.
And I agree that the incursions game mode as a whole needs to be looked into, maybe not too much but atleast make the potions and revives % based like the normal ones they're essentially USELESS unless you're running Hercules.

Chuck_Finley

Thoughtful posts but I think you guys missed the most important thing from Kabam’s perspective:

Diluted hack pool? Why…. Just keep hitting re-roll with UNITS

Don’t like the cool down timer on your champs? Just bypass that with UNITS

Healthpots and revive %’s got you down? No worries, nothing some UNITS can’t fix.

SirGamesBond

Knew it as soon as I saw it.
Absolute Garbo hacks.

Fryday

Thoughtful posts but I think you guys missed the most important thing from Kabam’s perspective:

Diluted hack pool? Why…. Just keep hitting re-roll with UNITS

Don’t like the cool down timer on your champs? Just bypass that with UNITS

Healthpots and revive %’s got you down? No worries, nothing some UNITS can’t fix.

I fully agreed with you @Chuck_Finley ,

When thinking of solution, I do try to see Kabam perpective too.

Kabam need to generate money (this is a good thing).

I just trying to find the balance.

It is a bit like fishing, you need to do a bit of batting. If anything seem to be impossible (or very unfair), then players just give up and not bother, which mean no Units at all.

Diluted Hack selection, we only really get 4 chance of re-roll. Kabam can't really earn that much by introducing 3 "not useful" Hack. But it is enough to annog players and demotivating them from playing.

Another way to increase Unit spending and make players happy. Add another Boss Hack Node somewhere between Zone 1 to 8. So now players get 5 chance of pick Hack, which also 5 chance for Re-roll unit spend.

Cooldown timer, honestly I know I have never spend units ro speed up cooldown timer, not sure how many other have. Again I can't imagine there is much units spending here either.

But changing it from 24hrs to 5mins would mean more players player this mode, and that would lead to more chance of units spend.

Revives & Potions on fix amount, using a 6 or 7* champs, knowing that and revive and potions amount would not be enough to do a Parry or a Block hit, why bother, might as well give up.

Again when something is so imbalance, players won't bother.

Using units that might give you a chance to progress, sure here is my units.

So changing it to percentage based would actually help units spending.

But of course we know how this all work. Kabam have a way of doing thing, and players can come up with whatever " good" idea or not. Kabam will just keep doing thing based on their plan (whether it work or not). No suggestion from players here on the forum ever make a different in Kabam direction. Unless you are the biggest whale or in the CCP elite club, then it all go under the carpet. 🤣

Just a bit of fun chit chat, like I said, it is nice to dream 🤣🤣🤣

Fryday

@Fryday well atleast the bosses(Kraven and gladiator)are only limited to the event and not permanent bosses...that being said none of those 2 are particularly difficult defenders it's mostly the nodes that screw people over.
And I agree that the incursions game mode as a whole needs to be looked into, maybe not too much but atleast make the potions and revives % based like the normal ones they're essentially USELESS unless you're running Hercules.

Hi @Priyabrata ,

I just read the Incursion announcement agaib, and sadly.

Gladiator and Kraven will be the new Incursion boss going forward.

As well the "theme zone", which would mean Maestro as potential Def.

As the new Hack.

They sre all stay.

Which truly take away whatever "balance" left in Incursion before these changes.

captain_rogers

@Fryday well atleast the bosses(Kraven and gladiator)are only limited to the event and not permanent bosses...that being said none of those 2 are particularly difficult defenders it's mostly the nodes that screw people over.
And I agree that the incursions game mode as a whole needs to be looked into, maybe not too much but atleast make the potions and revives % based like the normal ones they're essentially USELESS unless you're running Hercules.

Hi @Priyabrata ,

I just read the Incursion announcement agaib, and sadly.

Gladiator and Kraven will be the new Incursion boss going forward.

As well the "theme zone", which would mean Maestro as potential Def.

As the new Hack.

They sre all stay.

Which truly take away whatever "balance" left in Incursion before these changes.

Oh my god. Both are way wayy annoying than platpool

Kraven reduce stun duration, roots you and inflict cross fight suppression which mess up your rotation.

Glady is a big staller, sp1 with unstoppable and sp2 with incenerate on block, incursions are just made more annoying

N8buckeye08

It would be nice if you could flag node combinations/boss combinations are impossible and Kabam were to review those to remove the legitimately impossible roadblocks from RNG options. I’d be interested in burning units in a tough matchup but the threat of the next room being impossible means I don’t bother spending units in this mode

Priyabrata

@Fryday

Oof I wasn't aware of that, ITS EVEN WORSE THAN I THOUGHT, not only are the bosses remaining with the hacks , BUT EVEN THE THEMED ROOMS??!! I fought Maestro like once or twice and that was always Below zone 10 even still it ended my run once and would have ended the other one too . The only reason I barely survived was because the boss was an easy gladiator and the next zone had a 40% heal.
This is a nightmare, harder opponents and overall weaker hacks what are they even thinking ??

DrZola

As long as the team doesn’t put required items behind incursions, I’m content to do them just enough to get a crystal every now and then.

But…if a Deathless piece or some other super unavailable item requires deep incursions runs, that’s really unfair to the players.

Dr. Zola

Fryday

@Priyabrata and @captain_rogers ,

Whatever revival Plat/Goldpool change did for Incursion, it is all taken away with this new Saga change (don't we just love Saga).

All the negative is staying and whatever is helpful (or bearable) is gone, no managable Plat and Goldpool boss, and without the 5 mins cooldown and the Selection from All Hack, next season of Incursion will be painful.

Players right now are too busy worry about Section 7 Saga.

@N8buckeye08 ,

Sadly with around 230+ champs (minus a few from the cut list), all have different interactions with other champs and Node.

It would need extensively resources to work out all of the potential Roadblock combination of Def and Nodes. Hence why I didn't suggest that, just maybe remove some very unfair once like 50% Degen or the Frostbite one is quite annoying.

However with the combination of my suggestions solutions (which we know Kabam won't implement any), I think that is would help reduce some of the RNG impact, give players some control over their run and also helo generate of units spending opportunities for Kabam.

@DrZola ,

I fear that chase items being part of Incursion trend will continue (of course just my assumption). I think we will get another Incursion event in about 3 months time, at the end of another Saga, and it will either be Deathless Vision or some other "Free" 7* token that we have to chase.

I also assume this will be when Kabam swap out Gladiator and Kraven as "theme" Boss for the next Saga related champs.

So over more pain to look forward too. 🤣

Perfect_jab

Incursions is terrible now. All changes make it worse for the players. So disappointed for what it is now.

yoss

Until kabam will replace the 7* incursions crystal or buff the rewards I'm not bothering with that.
It's not worth the time and resources.

Silhouette1742

The rng has definitely been annoying even with the 5min refresh timers, having to go through like 20 easy runs to zone 4 just to get random hacks that I would never use is annoying. It’s just hours of my time spent doing basically nothing. Plus even then when I finally got a good run one sym supreme boss with instant burst damage (bc of Odin prefights) ended my run. There was literally nothing I could do.

Also maybe I’m misunderstanding it but has anyone else found the regen on the new unstoppable healthy hack isn’t there? The idea of “passive healing while attacking” is kinda vague and I haven’t seen it work before (no green numbers on screen by my champ, or regen passive etc)