Battlegrounds would be more fun and fair if a 4* only tournament mode was added

TL;DR battlegrounds is one of the most fun and innovative game modes which unfortunately is frustrating for 80% of players because there is no way around matchups with vastly more powerful players due to the matchmaking method. As a result, critical thinking and strategy are irrelevant to most players since there is no way around losing to stronger players. Introducing a tournament mode with only 4 star champions (just like in the Summoner Showdown event) will allow lower level players, like uncollected, cavalier, and throne breaker to enjoy the game mode, and progress their account more easily as battlegrounds has very valuable rewards. The top level rewards should still be reserved for the strongest accounts, however. Please let me know what you think!

I've been playing this game on and off for over 9 years and perhaps the biggest pain point I've experienced is having the skill to beat a certain piece of content, but not having the right champions, or being under leveled. I don't think I'm the only person who feels frustrated when I know I would've won the match if my opponent's champions weren't substantially more powerful than mine. I many other completive games such as Clash Royale there are modes the level of all players and characters are the same so the only real factor is player skill, and I think this would also drive more engagement to a mode like battlegrounds where strategy and planning becomes meaningless when an opponent's champs are simply more powerful.

Part of this is proposal is because many mid-level players like myself feel like most of the game is simply inaccessible to anyone who isn't an endgame player. I don't think the top level of rewards should be given to players who use the 4 star mode, as I recognize that there is a level of enjoyment and strategy in deciding who to rank for battlegrounds or getting a 6/7 star strong attacker or defender to add to your deck, which is why I think the tournament mode should be separate. This is wouldn't be the first time MCOC did something like this either, where for the Summoner's Showdown event they restricted champions to 4 stars only so the tournament would be on a even playing field. This would also spice up strategy since it only costs 6k incursions artifact for a 4 star basic meaning it would be very easy for any player past act 5/6 to get a mostly max rank/sig 4 star deck.

This comment is in large part due to the matchmaking change implemented in season 19. Previously those of similar account levels would be matched together, which Kabam stated is a "punishment for those with large rosters" since smaller accounts could climb the ladder with less difficulty. However, I would argue that while this change improves the experience for top level players, it drives away most mid to low level players who are casual spenders and free-to-play players that aren't very dedicated to the game, and overall reduces player retention. Other than that, it would also give far more value to 4 star champions, who for many players are just a source of ISO and 5 star shards.

Since I'm sure there is a vast range of players from big spenders to newer accounts on this subreddit I would be quite interested to see what you guys think of a change like this and whether you believe it would be an improvement.

Comments

PT_99

4* only BG? Maybe for 1 week special themed event.

4* everytime? Ain't no way, if you can't compete with 7r3 then I'd advise you to do Necro act-8 100% so you get your r3 asap.

There's no way that you decide to skip Necro and also get to complain about bigger decks.

Qwerty12345

While there are reasons why some "tournaments" are done that way... but without BGs pushing people to rank up 7 stars... there is absolutely no reason to progress your roster with this logic. Its not like 7 stars were needed for act 8.

Further, there would be no point to spending in the game, which I am sure some FTP players love it being "free"... but without revenue... the game will not be able to pay its developers and other costs, and will stop. Instead you would be forced to pay other ways (monthly sigil like costs) or tons of ads.

And at what point would it make sense to go to 5 stars, when 8 stars come out?

The point is, one shouldn't have every champ max ranked, and have everyone start with exactly the same roster. You have choices to make. Sometimes you rank for prestige, war, BG, or whatever... but its a choice.

Emilia90

What’s the incentive to build a better roster? Why do people keep suggesting stuff like this

BringPopcorn

I don't see any fun on making a brand new 4* deck, not fun at all...

Furrymoosen

As a one-off tournament here and there, with specific rewards reserved only for said tournament, sure. That would actually be fun and would give end game players a reason to use 4* champs. As a core part of the game mode with the regular access to the BG rewards, no.
I understand the frustration there can be with the matchmaking now when you occasionally end up against much bigger accounts, but it is the fairest it can be. You play against people in your tier. There's no fairer way to do it.
If players want matchmaking to be more "fair" than it is now, then there needs to be different reward tiers. If your account is at a level that caps you at 80% of the accessible rewards, then the only fair option would be to have a separate option for those accounts that still caps them at 80% of the rewards that the others have access to. Just like EQ, if you can't do the harder content, then you settle for lesser rewards in the content you can do.

Or we can leave it as it is, all players have equal opportunity to access the highest level rewards, and you go as far as you can until you can't, almost certainly exceeding any possible rewards you would get in content tailored for lower accounts. Not all content is for all players, but BGs is special in that different levels of content and rewards is available to nearly the entire player base.

KabamPinwheel

Certainly an interesting topic to discuss! Is this something you're envisioning as a permanent addition Hassan, or just want it to at least be an option occasionally?

Usagicassidy

Oh hey! I just saw this post on reddit!

It wasn't a great idea there, and it's not a great idea here. lol

I like the thought of changing things up in BGs and like someone mentioned maybe for a one-off event. But not something in addition to or replacing the current BGs.

Hassan4905

Certainly an interesting topic to discuss! Is this something you're envisioning as a permanent addition Hassan, or just want it to at least be an option occasionally?

I would imagine this could be a regular addition to the game unless the matchmaking method changed. Since season 19 the matchmaking stopped considering account strength as a factor since it was mentioned that those with larger rosters were taking longer to reach platinum, however, this comes at the cost of battlegrounds becoming virtually inaccessible to players who aren't at least valiant with high level champions. I myself have been constantly losing because my opponents have champions vastly higher level than mine, and I don't imagine I'm the only person who is throne breaker or of a similar level that is being by the imbalance of matchmaking. It seems like the vision of battlegrounds being a gamemode where strategic thinking and planning ahead is lost when the vast majority of players will not be able to outplay or outskill an opponent who has more 6* rank 4s and 7* champs.

I can elaborate on this more if you are interested, please let me know!

willrun4adonut

The TL;DR was too long itself, but I still read it.

What caught my eye was that you said BG would allow players to progress because it has great rewards. However, the best way to get better rewards is to get to the next title and clear content. That is the best way to progress your roster.

BringPopcorn

I still don't get some arguments on this post.
Talking about new players being at disadvantage, a new player would not have all the resources to waste to build a 4* deck. Older players would have them all almost max sig.

Hassan4905

Oh hey! I just saw this post on reddit!

It wasn't a great idea there, and it's not a great idea here. lol

I like the thought of changing things up in BGs and like someone mentioned maybe for a one-off event. But not something in addition to or replacing the current BGs.

You aren't really elaborating, you're just saying it's a bad idea. A lot of people disagree without explaining on reddit which is why I moved this discussion over to the forums. I'm not sure many of the people who are responding are playing battlegrounds at the thronebreaker or cavalier level since nobody seems to understand how unbalanced matchmaking is. I would be fine if it was thronebreakers against other thronebreakers or cavalier against cavalier if you don't think a tournament mode would be a good idea, although many people who responded also seemed to think that if you aren't a top tier player battlegrounds isn't for you, and unfortunately whoever made the matchmaking seems to agree.

Hassan4905

I still don't get some arguments on this post.
Talking about new players being at disadvantage, a new player would not have all the resources to waste to build a 4* deck. Older players would have them all almost max sig.

This is true, but the rewards for the mode could give out rank up gems to help players develop a tournament roster, just like how gems are being used to help players rank up 6 and 7 star champs. There is an economy issue with getting ISO and gold, as well and this problem applies to ranking up all champions. I'm not able to level/rank up my 6 stars consistently because I have to wait for my iso and gold to replenish, so if this problem applies to the 4 star champs it would apply to the game in its current state as well.

BringPopcorn

I still don't get some arguments on this post.
Talking about new players being at disadvantage, a new player would not have all the resources to waste to build a 4* deck. Older players would have them all almost max sig.
This is true, but the rewards for the mode could give out rank up gems to help players develop a tournament roster, just like how gems are being used to help players rank up 6 and 7 star champs. There is an economy issue with getting ISO and gold, as well and this problem applies to ranking up all champions. I'm not able to level/rank up my 6 stars consistently because I have to wait for my iso and gold to replenish, so if this problem applies to the 4 star champs it would apply to the game in its current state as well.

So you can't rank up all your 6 and 7 stars, and your solution is to build a 4* deck... You have been playing for 9 years... You are doing something wrong.

WinterFields

I would expect this idea to run into a similar experience like earlier BG seasons where endgame players with Cav alts had no trouble beating other Cavs.

As long as Paragon+ faces UC or Cavs, even with the exact same deck, I would expect the Paragon+ to win almost every time. Mid-level players don't often have the experience or developed the skills and knowledge that endgame players have

Hassan4905

While there are reasons why some "tournaments" are done that way... but without BGs pushing people to rank up 7 stars... there is absolutely no reason to progress your roster with this logic. Its not like 7 stars were needed for act 8.

Further, there would be no point to spending in the game, which I am sure some FTP players love it being "free"... but without revenue... the game will not be able to pay its developers and other costs, and will stop. Instead you would be forced to pay other ways (monthly sigil like costs) or tons of ads.

And at what point would it make sense to go to 5 stars, when 8 stars come out?

The point is, one shouldn't have every champ max ranked, and have everyone start with exactly the same roster. You have choices to make. Sometimes you rank for prestige, war, BG, or whatever... but its a choice.

There would be an incentive because a tournament mode would reward players based on their progression level, allowing them to develop their current roster, and the regular BG mode would contain the highest level of rewards for the top players. I acknowledged in my post that there is a level of enjoyment from choosing champs to rank and that is why I still think the top rewards would be for the non-tournament players who are playing with max 6 stars and 7 star rank 3 champs, but I don't see why lower level players should be locked out of the game mode until next season just because they aren't high level enough to keep playing. Even if this wasn't about rewards, don't you think there are cav and thronebreaker players who want to play BG without getting steamrolled by a big account once they've reached gold V or IV?

There would be no need to go to 5 stars because as long as everyone is on a fair playing field the tournament mode would be working as intended.

Hassan4905

I still don't get some arguments on this post.
Talking about new players being at disadvantage, a new player would not have all the resources to waste to build a 4* deck. Older players would have them all almost max sig.
This is true, but the rewards for the mode could give out rank up gems to help players develop a tournament roster, just like how gems are being used to help players rank up 6 and 7 star champs. There is an economy issue with getting ISO and gold, as well and this problem applies to ranking up all champions. I'm not able to level/rank up my 6 stars consistently because I have to wait for my iso and gold to replenish, so if this problem applies to the 4 star champs it would apply to the game in its current state as well.
So you can't rank up all your 6 and 7 stars, and your solution is to build a 4* deck... You have been playing for 9 years... You are doing something wrong.

You're misrepresenting my position. I haven't been playing constantly for 9 years, so when I come back after months of not playing I'll have been left behind in terms of roster and progression. Furthermore, I'm not the only returning player to this game, nor am I the only mid level player who has been locked out of BG because of the matchmaking. I'm sure there are thousands of other players who would very much enjoy battlegrounds but aren't able to play it because they keep facing much higher level players.

BringPopcorn

I still don't get some arguments on this post.
Talking about new players being at disadvantage, a new player would not have all the resources to waste to build a 4* deck. Older players would have them all almost max sig.
This is true, but the rewards for the mode could give out rank up gems to help players develop a tournament roster, just like how gems are being used to help players rank up 6 and 7 star champs. There is an economy issue with getting ISO and gold, as well and this problem applies to ranking up all champions. I'm not able to level/rank up my 6 stars consistently because I have to wait for my iso and gold to replenish, so if this problem applies to the 4 star champs it would apply to the game in its current state as well.
So you can't rank up all your 6 and 7 stars, and your solution is to build a 4* deck... You have been playing for 9 years... You are doing something wrong.
You're misrepresenting my position. I haven't been playing constantly for 9 years, so when I come back after months of not playing I'll have been left behind in terms of roster and progression. Furthermore, I'm not the only returning player to this game, nor am I the only mid level player who has been locked out of BG because of the matchmaking. I'm sure there are thousands of other players who would very much enjoy battlegrounds but aren't able to play it because they keep facing much higher level players.

You could be right, but those mid level or returning players should not focus on building a 4" deck.

ahmynuts

The competitive game mode that is supposed to entice competitive players to continue to grind and spend to get the top champs at the top rarity would be better if it were limited to 4 star champions.

Okay got it

Hassan4905

I still don't get some arguments on this post.
Talking about new players being at disadvantage, a new player would not have all the resources to waste to build a 4* deck. Older players would have them all almost max sig.
This is true, but the rewards for the mode could give out rank up gems to help players develop a tournament roster, just like how gems are being used to help players rank up 6 and 7 star champs. There is an economy issue with getting ISO and gold, as well and this problem applies to ranking up all champions. I'm not able to level/rank up my 6 stars consistently because I have to wait for my iso and gold to replenish, so if this problem applies to the 4 star champs it would apply to the game in its current state as well.
So you can't rank up all your 6 and 7 stars, and your solution is to build a 4* deck... You have been playing for 9 years... You are doing something wrong.
You're misrepresenting my position. I haven't been playing constantly for 9 years, so when I come back after months of not playing I'll have been left behind in terms of roster and progression. Furthermore, I'm not the only returning player to this game, nor am I the only mid level player who has been locked out of BG because of the matchmaking. I'm sure there are thousands of other players who would very much enjoy battlegrounds but aren't able to play it because they keep facing much higher level players.
You could be right, but those mid level or returning players should not focus on building a 4" deck.

Someone did respond to this idea, and suggested that if we really wanted to be as fair as possible we should have a 3* battlegrounds tournament mode instead of a 4 star since it is vastly easier to rank and sig those champs. I partially agree, but I think the core of this problem is the fact that ISO and gold are inaccessible and not that the champions themselves are difficult to acquire. Rank up gems would solve the problem. I don't see why the MCOC team would have a problem providing uncollected, cav, and thronebreaker players with ranked up 4 stars since they aren't very usable in other game modes anyways.

Herbal_Taxman

I don’t agree with your premise at all, but I do think BG is underutilized by Kabam as a source of innovation and fun. Unlike quest type content, BGs is more of a game within the game that should enable tons of different events that encourage people to revisit old champs, think about champs in different ways etc.

Everything doesn’t need to be a month long tournament. Kabam could do flash events that last for a weekend. 2*s only, 4*s only, certain tags, different scoring models (that are clearly marked as temporary, so people don’t get confused…) BG could be an awesome sandbox if Kabam would look at it in that light.

Hassan4905

The competitive game mode that is supposed to entice competitive players to continue to grind and spend to get the top champs at the top rarity would be better if it were limited to 4 star champions.

Okay got it

You are misrepresenting my argument. I've already responded to this in my post, but I don't blame you if you didn't read it since it is quite long.

I'm going to quote the original post since it would take quite long to write a whole new response: "Part of this is proposal is because many mid-level players like myself feel like most of the game is simply inaccessible to anyone who isn't an endgame player. I don't think the top level of rewards should be given to players who use the 4 star mode, as I recognize that there is a level of enjoyment and strategy in deciding who to rank for battlegrounds or getting a 6/7 star strong attacker or defender to add to your deck, which is why I think the tournament mode should be separate. This is wouldn't be the first time MCOC did something like this either, where for the Summoner's Showdown event they restricted champions to 4 stars only so the tournament would be on a even playing field."

captain_rogers

Rewards? 4* stuff or 7* stuff?

BringPopcorn

Rewards? 4* stuff or 7* stuff?

The rewards would have to be minimum. Otherwise that BG would be flooded with big accounts with completely maxed 4* and smaller or lower players would still complain.

Hassan4905

Rewards? 4* stuff or 7* stuff?

My idea is that the rewards for the tornument mode would be based on your progression level. For example a thronebreaker player might get tier 6 basic and tier 5 CC that would help them take 6 stars to rank 4 so they could achieve paragon.

Frumpy_geezer

I would just split it up into 2. Have a TB/Cav battlegrounds and a Paragon+ version. Rewards could stay the same for the latter and be lessened for the former.

captain_rogers

Rewards? 4* stuff or 7* stuff?
My idea is that the rewards for the tornument mode would be based on your progression level. For example a thronebreaker player might get tier 6 basic and tier 5 CC that would help them take 6 stars to rank 4 so they could achieve paragon.

That's where you are doing it wrong.
You use 4*s to fight 4*s but want 6* level rewards? Doesn't make any sense to me.

spidyjedi84

Something definitely to do during the offseason, sure, but not regular season. I wouldn't hate that in the off-season, when I'm just toying with champs who might be good in the upcoming meta, as I have the majority of all champs in my 3 to 4 star rosters. I get BG is a slog if you don't have 7 stars ranked up, but some of the fun is discovering "oh, hey, this champ they didn't block really excels against the champ they threw up for defense!" Like me discovering last night in this meta CGR gets wrecked by CMM. CMM actually regenerates as part of her kit when she's in binary mode, and if he gets a shock on you, it ramps her into binary mode quickly. Can't remember who they had as their matchup, but it being my second win guaranteed I advanced a rank and found my way back into diamond with three weeks to go.

Hassan4905

Rewards? 4* stuff or 7* stuff?
My idea is that the rewards for the tornument mode would be based on your progression level. For example a thronebreaker player might get tier 6 basic and tier 5 CC that would help them take 6 stars to rank 4 so they could achieve paragon.
That's where you are doing it wrong.
You use 4*s to fight 4*s but want 6* level rewards? Doesn't make any sense to me.

The rewards should be based on beating a challenge, not just on the star level of your champion. For example, in the carina's challenges you could use a 3 star aegon to beat realm of legends and get a 6 star crystal. You just needed to be throne breaker to access them. What I am proposing would work with the same logic. If the rewards are based on progression you would need to push for paragon and valiant to improve your rewards in the tournament mode, or just play the regular battlegrounds.

Vegeta9001

I'll pass on that one. I have like 8 maxd 4*s I used to be one of the champ sellers and never got roundtoranking anyback up.

Hassan4905

Something definitely to do during the offseason, sure, but not regular season. I wouldn't hate that in the off-season, when I'm just toying with champs who might be good in the upcoming meta, as I have the majority of all champs in my 3 to 4 star rosters. I get BG is a slog if you don't have 7 stars ranked up, but some of the fun is discovering "oh, hey, this champ they didn't block really excels against the champ they threw up for defense!" Like me discovering last night in this meta CGR gets wrecked by CMM. CMM actually regenerates as part of her kit when she's in binary mode, and if he gets a shock on you, it ramps her into binary mode quickly. Can't remember who they had as their matchup, but it being my second win guaranteed I advanced a rank and found my way back into diamond with three weeks to go.

I think what you mentioned is a prime reason that battlegrounds should be accessible to lower level players. Since you reached diamond I'm going to assume you're a high level player, which allowed you to experiment in battlegrounds. For someone who is cavalier or thronebreaker, there is virtually no way they could have a similar experience since they are matching with more powerful players. The way you are experiencing battlegrounds would be the same way a new player would be able to experience it if they had a tournament mode with an even playing field. It seems to me that most of the people who are disagreeing with this idea think that it wouldn't work because people should focus on developing their 6 and 7 star roster instead of focusing on the essence of the battlegrounds experience which is experimentation, planning and strategy. Of course the regular battlegrounds would be available for players who want to use their 6 and 7 star champions, but the tournament would at least be an option for those who don't have high level accounts.