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What do you think of new champions being designed primarily around countering Serpent/Bullseye

altavistaaltavista Member Posts: 1,556 ★★★★
in General Discussion
I know BGs is a big focus and will continue to stay, but by and large all champion releases in the past half year have been affected by Bullseye-itis or psoriatic Serpent. These conditions will pass in time, but their impact on champion design will linger for years.

2025:
Jan: Okoye (Bullseye counter) and Gentle (Bullseye counter)

2024:
Dec: Isophyne (Serpent counter)
Nov: Dazzler (Bullseye counter), Spiral (Serpent counter)
Oct: A bit of a break for an Onslaught counter (Jack)
Sep: Shathra (Serpent), Count Nefaria duped (Serpent)
Aug: Enchantress (Serpent)


So far, that is 6 months with most of the champions being designed with a core focus on countering two 2024 relevant defenders.

I personally think this is constrictive in terms of champion design (imagine if following Korg's release in 2018, that the 2019 champions were all designed differently to focus on countering Korg. That would lead to a much less diverse champion pool compared to the champions we did get).

What do people think?

What do you think of new champions being designed primarily around countering Serpent/Bullseye 44 votes

I don't mind it, since that still means the champion will be useful in many places (or, BGs is the main focus for me so its still beneficial)
43%
AzKicker316ZsirhcZLogan00OurobørosAmaadAkiraAnnihilator13_TheInfintyBrHunter67360MmaatthheewwAzenstarJackTheSnackAshacekarSceptilemaniac2Emilia90EdisonLawjj_jj_9ChampionMeeOnepieceisnotrealIronwarrior 19 votes
It's getting tired/limiting (how many counters do we need now that their defensive threat is nullified by all the counters?)
38%
Alex13369King_L0kiB34rcaptain_rogersDoug4theWinIronman3000black_kill288THE_KING_0602IronGladiator22Stupid91The_Doctor_24_1UltragamerHatsumomoTikkaMasalaCuber2906CROSSHAIRSCandyCane2CodyDaGuy 17 votes
Other (comment)
18%
VaniteliaSquidopusChobblyPybruhNemesis_17shield311WEAPON_HIAmGrO_ot78 8 votes

Comments

  • SquidopusSquidopus Member Posts: 747 ★★★★
    edited January 10
    Other (comment)
    A lot of these champs are just champs that happen to also have the tools to counter Bullseye/Serpent but do plenty of other things (Dazzler, Shathra, Spiral, etc.) and tbh some of these aren’t even particularly capable counters to them (idk if I’d call Nefaria a Serpent counter so much as a desperation backup option, and Enchantress isn’t really fast enough on the draw to be relevant against him either in the game modes that he’s such a problem in). I don’t see the issue at the end of the day I suppose.
  • IAmGrO_ot78IAmGrO_ot78 Member Posts: 152 ★★
    Other (comment)
    I really dont care, probably because I got Chavez/ Wiger / Kindred / Doom for Serpent.
    Negasonic / AA / Odin / Sinister for Bullseye.
    Havok / Angela / Hulkling / Herc for Onslaught….so I really dont think there ever was a huge need to develop new champs to counter these defenders.
  • Emilia90Emilia90 Member Posts: 3,689 ★★★★★
    I don't mind it, since that still means the champion will be useful in many places (or, BGs is the main focus for me so its still beneficial)
    Literally every champ you listed (outside isophyne) are versatile and can be used in a ton of other places outside of Serpent and Bullseye.

    Dazzler can nuke a ton, Spiral is also a general nuke even though she’s mainly a serpent counter, Nefaria isn’t even close to the best serpent counter but great for a ton of other stuff, Enchantress sucks for serpent outside of extreme longform which we haven’t even had yet, and Shathra is also a general nuke

    What’s the issue here? They’re not just good for one thing
  • TotemCorruptionTotemCorruption Member Posts: 309 ★★
    If you think Shathra is primarily a Serpent counter, then I don't know what to say.
    She counters almost everyone...




  • Emilia90Emilia90 Member Posts: 3,689 ★★★★★
    I don't mind it, since that still means the champion will be useful in many places (or, BGs is the main focus for me so its still beneficial)
    TotemCorruption said:

    If you think Shathra is primarily a Serpent counter, then I don't know what to say.
    She counters almost everyone...




    Half the people he listed aren’t even meant to counter those champs (btw jealous of that Shathra)

    Spiral was the first serpent hard counter too. Shathra is good for him but like you said, she’s a general nuke and was mostly designed as a Maestro hard counter

    Nefaria isn’t even intended as a serpent counter (he can’t evade him) and Enchantress was designed as a tough defender and she can counter pretty much anyone in long form

    Idk why OP is acting like it’s constrictive when all these champs have far more usage than what was described. Dazzler is one of the best general BG nukes too lol
  • TotemCorruptionTotemCorruption Member Posts: 309 ★★
    Emilia90 said:

    TotemCorruption said:

    If you think Shathra is primarily a Serpent counter, then I don't know what to say.
    She counters almost everyone...




    Half the people he listed aren’t even meant to counter those champs (btw jealous of that Shathra)

    Spiral was the first serpent hard counter too. Shathra is good for him but like you said, she’s a general nuke and was mostly designed as a Maestro hard counter

    Nefaria isn’t even intended as a serpent counter (he can’t evade him) and Enchantress was designed as a tough defender and she can counter pretty much anyone in long form

    Idk why OP is acting like it’s constrictive when all these champs have far more usage than what was described. Dazzler is one of the best general BG nukes too lol
    Yeah I need to practice more with Dazzler (and awaken her hopefully), but labeling her just a Bullseye counter is ridiculous. Like her sig ability is aimed literally at Killmonger, Attuma, and Korg...
  • AshacekarAshacekar Member Posts: 2,271 ★★★★★
    edited January 10
    I don't mind it, since that still means the champion will be useful in many places (or, BGs is the main focus for me so its still beneficial)
    I m fine with more Bullsie/Serpie counters, makes bg more balanced. Initially when they came out it seemed bad, now with more versatile counters for them things look even.
  • altavistaaltavista Member Posts: 1,556 ★★★★
    To be clear, I am not saying that these are champions are limited outside the targeted matchup compared to how Negasonic or Patriot or IDoom seem to be undercut by having a design primarily as a counter.

    The best analogy for what I am getting at is if new champions were desserts, most of what Kabam is putting out is Ice Cream with the occasional cake. Ice cream isn't bad, and there still can be variety within ice cream, but it is still primarily ice cream.
  • SquidopusSquidopus Member Posts: 747 ★★★★
    Other (comment)
    altavista said:

    To be clear, I am not saying that these are champions are limited outside the targeted matchup compared to how Negasonic or Patriot or IDoom seem to be undercut by having a design primarily as a counter.

    The best analogy for what I am getting at is if new champions were desserts, most of what Kabam is putting out is Ice Cream with the occasional cake. Ice cream isn't bad, and there still can be variety within ice cream, but it is still primarily ice cream.

    Then I think the analogy is flawed. Calling every champ listed here as “different flavors of ice cream” still implies that they are one and the same in some form (Bullseye/Serpent counter) and that this similarity is what defines them. For most of these champs, I think classifying them solely off of that factor is a disservice to them. Shathra and Spiral may both counter Serpent, but they couldn’t be more different in so many other ways. Shathra destroys specific buffs and punishes buffs on the opponent, has a very unique playstyle, and stacks rupture debuffs. Shathra is a queen of power steal who throws specials very rapidly and deals huge passive energy damage during them while controlling buffs with atrophy. Your main post mentions how designing around countering these defenders is restrictive, and yet these two counters are wholly unique champs with entirely different mechanics and gameplay feel. I just don’t feel like this is a very sensible categorization to use, at least as you currently are in assuming this is some fundamental guiding principle behind their designs.
  • LokxLokx Member Posts: 1,538 ★★★★
    altavista said:

    To be clear, I am not saying that these are champions are limited outside the targeted matchup compared to how Negasonic or Patriot or IDoom seem to be undercut by having a design primarily as a counter.

    The best analogy for what I am getting at is if new champions were desserts, most of what Kabam is putting out is Ice Cream with the occasional cake. Ice cream isn't bad, and there still can be variety within ice cream, but it is still primarily ice cream.

    Negasonic is in no way similar to these two. She counters majority of the skill class and can take on nodes that penalises inflicting debuffs. She has cool evade mechanic for those who counter evade (which is not just skill class). The pool of champs she can take on is large and can expand depending on the nodes. No she isn’t the best bg attacker, but she still has a lot of cool usability.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 9,034 ★★★★★
    I don't mind it, since that still means the champion will be useful in many places (or, BGs is the main focus for me so its still beneficial)
    As long as they can counter other champions I am fine with it. For example, Spiral is good for not just Serpent but other buff heavy champions as well, Jack is an Onslaught counter but he’s also viable for other defenders like Mr Sinister and even Bullseye
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