Why is ICEMAN not immune to coldsnap?

Why is ICEMAN not immune to coldsnap? Just thinking logically, he's made of ICE? how is cold snap going to affect him?

Of course the same logic with Ghostrider being a being of fire who is not immune to incinerate.

Comments

Mannysmoker

Is due balance, same to GR..

DNA3000

Ozzziie wrote: »

Why is ICEMAN not immune to coldsnap? Just thinking logically, he's made of ICE? how is cold snap going to affect him?

Of course the same logic with Ghostrider being a being of fire who is not immune to incinerate.

The fact that Ghost Rider is not a being made of fire weakens your argument substantially.

But separate from all the balance arguments and other collateral arguments surrounding this one, I've also been confused by why anyone would think that Iceman, just because he is made of ice, would be immune to cold snap. And it just occurred to me this must be because I'm not thinking about cold snap in the same way someone might colloquially think about cold snap.

Cold is not a thing. There's no such thing as adding more cold to something. Cold is really the absence of heat. Cooling something is subtracting energy from it. We might think of cold snap as damage being done because we are "hitting the target with cold" but that's a meaningless statement, physics-wise. We are actually draining energy from the target which makes it colder. So the question "why is Iceman not immune to cold snap" is really asking this question: should Iceman, just because he is made of Ice, be completely immune to superpowers that drain kinetic energy from their target in such a way that among other things they get colder in temperature?

Iceman might generally be immune to being exposed to cold because when exposed to low heat environments not much happens to him. But that doesn't mean he is necessarily immune to something that can more directly drain him of kinetic energy. Such a thing would have to be extremely powerful at draining thermal energy to have any effect on Iceman. Like, maybe, Iceman.

Ozzziie

But as he causes that same field of energy drain, it seems that he would have to be immune to his own effect.

DNA3000

Ozzziie wrote: »

But as he causes that same field of energy drain, it seems that he would have to be immune to his own effect.

I don't see why that would be the case. Presume that when Iceman cools down or freezes anything he pulls the heat out of that object or area. That heat has to go somewhere. It can't just move to the surroundings or Iceman would be heating the area around him. So most likely he absorbs that heat energy himself, and his physics-breaking superpower is that he can somehow dispose of that heat energy.

Iceman can target specific things, so he doesn't have to energy drain himself to energy drain a target. But even if he were to energy drain his surroundings and that included some of his own body mass, he'd just be pulling energy out of his body and pulling it into his body, a net neutral effect.

There's a real world analog. Electric eels and other electric fish generate and discharge electricity to track and stun prey. Generally, they don't stun themselves with their own electric discharges but they are not immune to electricity. In fact, if you remove them from the water their own electric discharges can sometimes shock themselves because the mechanism they use to generate and direct those discharges doesn't function as it should in air as opposed to water.

Fingfangfoomfanes

DNA3000 wrote: »

Ozzziie wrote: »

But as he causes that same field of energy drain, it seems that he would have to be immune to his own effect.

I don't see why that would be the case. Presume that when Iceman cools down or freezes anything he pulls the heat out of that object or area. That heat has to go somewhere. It can't just move to the surroundings or Iceman would be heating the area around him. So most likely he absorbs that heat energy himself, and his physics-breaking superpower is that he can somehow dispose of that heat energy.

Iceman can target specific things, so he doesn't have to energy drain himself to energy drain a target. But even if he were to energy drain his surroundings and that included some of his own body mass, he'd just be pulling energy out of his body and pulling it into his body, a net neutral effect.

There's a real world analog. Electric eels and other electric fish generate and discharge electricity to track and stun prey. Generally, they don't stun themselves with their own electric discharges but they are not immune to electricity. In fact, if you remove them from the water their own electric discharges can sometimes shock themselves because the mechanism they use to generate and direct those discharges doesn't function as it should in air as opposed to water.

the dude got insight.

Dave_the_destroyer

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

The1_NuclearOnion

@DNA3000 It sounds logical but doesn't match at all with the ability description of iceman which says he uses his Cyrokinesis ability to "chill the air around HIM" to freezing temperatures, causing coldsnap.....

So by the very description of his awakened ability, he causes cold snap on his opponent by chilling the air around himself. So it is logical to assume that he would then be existing within said chilled air that causes coldsnap on opponent but not suffering from it himself in this case.

DNA3000

The1_NuclearOnion wrote: »

@DNA3000 It sounds logical but doesn't match at all with the ability description of iceman which says he uses his Cyrokinesis ability to "chill the air around HIM" to freezing temperatures, causing coldsnap.....

So by the very description of his awakened ability, he causes cold snap on his opponent by chilling the air around himself. So it is logical to assume that he would then be existing within said chilled air that causes coldsnap on opponent but not suffering from it himself in this case.

I think we have to allow for some latitude with how the text descriptions "explain" the powers, or very quickly a lot of the powers in the game don't make sense. If cold snap is the literal result of Iceman chilling the air around himself and essentially causing everything around him to feel the effects we associate with cold snap, we'd have cold snap permanently.

But if we want to get strictly literal, it does say Iceman chills the air *around* him. It does not therefore have to directly affect himself, since his power doesn't say it chills his own body. The effect could be directed only outward.

The character sheet also says Iceman is composed of "organic ice" and not literal ice, and without knowing what "organic ice" is, it is conceivable that whatever it is, it is not vulnerable to normal incineration effects and immune to poisons (and can't bleed) but is not immune to the weaponized energy manipulation effects Iceman himself can direct to a target.

Keep in mind, I am not trying to prove that Iceman *should be* vulnerable to cold snap. Nobody can do that. The question is whether it is unreasonable for Iceman to be vulnerable to cold snap, and I think there's enough uncertainty in how these powers work that there are logical avenues to how that *could* reasonably work.

The1_NuclearOnion

@DNA3000 Yeah, vague descriptions allow for almost anything really.

Sungj

It is also not logical for a human to survive blocking laser beams with their arms. The MCOC universe is very separate from our own and the marvel comic universe , logic doesn't have to apply

The1_NuclearOnion

@Sungj I block laser beams with my arms all the time. What do you mean?

DNA3000

The1_NuclearOnion wrote: »

@Sungj I block laser beams with my arms all the time. What do you mean?

He probably doesn't mean the kind your cat chases across the room.

The1_NuclearOnion

DNA3000 wrote: »

The1_NuclearOnion wrote: »

@Sungj I block laser beams with my arms all the time. What do you mean?

He probably doesn't mean the kind your cat chases across the room.

10 points for you for figuring it out!

the6th

Well,well,well simply kabam logic no scientific explanations here.

Those champs who uses hand and stick can cause bleed while the ones who uses swords doesnt, and some other stuff well that's part of the game.

BulkHuster

Just because someone has a gun doesn’t mean he is immune to bullets

SpiritOfVengeance

While we are at it how come ghost riders massive hell fire breath does not cause any incineration at all but hyperions lasers and special bullets can?

DNA3000

SpiritOfVengeance wrote: »

While we are at it how come ghost riders massive hell fire breath does not cause any incineration at all but hyperions lasers and special bullets can?

Well, you said it yourself: its Hellfire, not fire fire. Hellfire is more of a magical energy than it is combustion, and Ghost Rider uses it for all kinds of things. In the comic books, for example, Hellfire sometimes doesn't burn any material object, but does affect the souls of the people he uses it on. It wouldn't be very useful to use as a punishment for the soul if it also turned the person he used it on into a charcoal brickette. The Hellfire breath attack in MCOC has chance to power drain, suggesting it isn't being used as a normal fire, but as a magical fire that sucks the life out of the target.

That's why when people say Ghost Rider should be immune to incinerate because he is surrounded by fire they are not describing the character accurately. Ghost Rider isn't surrounded by normal fire and he is not on fire. He is surrounded by magical hellfire which only burns when he uses it as an attack and wants it to burn.

Ghost Rider is immune to fire in the comics not because he is on fire, but because as the personification of the spirit of vengeance he is pretty much immune to everything.

Boboman

I suggest you don't argue with DNA

ViciousJ

Iceman made of ice .. should be immune to coldsnap .. easy as that ..

Gogeta

one more thing why maestro is affected by poison or neurotoxin?everyone knows he's none other than hulk and hulk is immune to poison.

Gogeta

And during mordo's special 3 spiderman falls down to some creature like kraken or whatever,spidey should able to stick to walls but he won't during mordo's special three .And i mean for all spideys

Gogeta

this game defys all logic

Titan_A97

Logically, Rocket Raccoon shouldn't even be able to touch Hulk, yet RR stands an equal chance of fighting Hulk in this game.

Logically, Winter Soldier's bullets shouldn't even dent Colossus' metal frame, yet when hit by WS' bullets, Colossus is knocked down to the ground.

Logically, Dormammu, a being of pure energy (as stated by his in game description), should be immune to all forms of energy damage like incinerate, which is thermal energy, yet he still gets incinerated.

I could go on and on but the point is this: Real life logic has no relevance in this game. If it was relevant, many of the characters in the Contest would literally be obselete. Black Widow's blow should do absolutely no damage against Colossus' frame. Magneto should be able to rip out Winter Soldier's arm in an instant and completely obliterate Colossus immediately, yet Magneto is often regarded as an underpowered character.

The more you think about why Iceman isn't immune to Coldsnap, Electro taking static shock damage, Dormammu not being immune to incinerate the more confused you'll get. Instead, just think of it this way, the Collector, when he created the created the Battlerealm designed it with his own set of rules where Dormammu can get incinerated and Iceman can be damaged by Coldsnap.

The1_NuclearOnion

BulkHuster wrote: »

Just because someone has a gun doesn’t mean he is immune to bullets

Luke Cage has bulletproof skin but is NOT immune to bullets in this game. So Debunked.

unknown

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The1_NuclearOnion

DNA3000 wrote: »

SpiritOfVengeance wrote: »

While we are at it how come ghost riders massive hell fire breath does not cause any incineration at all but hyperions lasers and special bullets can?

Well, you said it yourself: its Hellfire, not fire fire. Hellfire is more of a magical energy than it is combustion, and Ghost Rider uses it for all kinds of things. In the comic books, for example, Hellfire sometimes doesn't burn any material object, but does affect the souls of the people he uses it on. It wouldn't be very useful to use as a punishment for the soul if it also turned the person he used it on into a charcoal brickette. The Hellfire breath attack in MCOC has chance to power drain, suggesting it isn't being used as a normal fire, but as a magical fire that sucks the life out of the target.

That's why when people say Ghost Rider should be immune to incinerate because he is surrounded by fire they are not describing the character accurately. Ghost Rider isn't surrounded by normal fire and he is not on fire. He is surrounded by magical hellfire which only burns when he uses it as an attack and wants it to burn.

Ghost Rider is immune to fire in the comics not because he is on fire, but because as the personification of the spirit of vengeance he is pretty much immune to everything.

Um. Is it possible you made that up sir? What exactly is your source of reference for Hellfire being any different kind of fire than regular fire at least in its effects? Maybe Marvel's hellfire I suppose?
Dictionary definition of incinerate - destroy (something, especially waste material) by burning.
Hellfire as described in the bible is fire that burns things to complete destruction (incinerates).
Isaiah 33:14, Malachi 4:1, The Dictionary
That said, we are talking about a make believe universe of Marvel so I guess it doesn't really matter that much.
OK. You win.

unknown

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jojodeth101

DNA3000 wrote: »

Ozzziie wrote: »

Why is ICEMAN not immune to coldsnap? Just thinking logically, he's made of ICE? how is cold snap going to affect him?

Of course the same logic with Ghostrider being a being of fire who is not immune to incinerate.

The fact that Ghost Rider is not a being made of fire weakens your argument substantially.

But separate from all the balance arguments and other collateral arguments surrounding this one, I've also been confused by why anyone would think that Iceman, just because he is made of ice, would be immune to cold snap. And it just occurred to me this must be because I'm not thinking about cold snap in the same way someone might colloquially think about cold snap.

Cold is not a thing. There's no such thing as adding more cold to something. Cold is really the absence of heat. Cooling something is subtracting energy from it. We might think of cold snap as damage being done because we are "hitting the target with cold" but that's a meaningless statement, physics-wise. We are actually draining energy from the target which makes it colder. So the question "why is Iceman not immune to cold snap" is really asking this question: should Iceman, just because he is made of Ice, be completely immune to superpowers that drain kinetic energy from their target in such a way that among other things they get colder in temperature?

Iceman might generally be immune to being exposed to cold because when exposed to low heat environments not much happens to him. But that doesn't mean he is necessarily immune to something that can more directly drain him of kinetic energy. Such a thing would have to be extremely powerful at draining thermal energy to have any effect on Iceman. Like, maybe, Iceman.

head is hurting ow ow ow

JFerg114

Cold is not a thing. There's no such thing as adding more cold to something. Cold is really

Cold is actually a thing, living in Chicago for 30 years has taught me as much! However, they immunity should be inferred as it scientifically proven that once a substance or matter achieves absolute zero there isn't anything that can freeze beyond that point. Keep in mind we are talking about mutant powers so this entire conversation is a relative. The simplest answer to the question has little to do with science or mutant powers as it does money. The monetary gain that is achieve by offering a minute amount of counters benefits Kabam. Now of course they will state there are counters besides Memphisto, but in reality why would the offer multiple solutions to a unique encounter when they benefit from it?

DNA3000

The1_NuclearOnion wrote: »

Um. Is it possible you made that up sir? What exactly is your source of reference for Hellfire being any different kind of fire than regular fire at least in its effects? Maybe Marvel's hellfire I suppose?

What else would we be talking about in this situation?