Can we be really honest?

Proper compensation is honestly long overdue. Here’s a list of the recent bugs that have gone uncompensated over the past few months (some of which were pulled from another thread, and some of which I added). Before you hate or rip this apart, at least read the ending.

- Guardian/Piggy cannot be seen on screen and Guardian Necro unplayable for some, wasting lots of revives.
- Lots of champion bugs, Guillotine 2099 still bald in some matches, and Onslaught is still dark, left for weeks.
- Serpent booting you out when you pull him/level him up.
- Juggs unplayable for at least a week, sp2 literally whiffs. (Mine is r3 - Needed to use him for some higher level content and only had a few days to do so with him fixed. People plan out paths in advance.)
- Spiral being unplayable for at least a week or two.
- Nick Fury’s sp1 blocked midway making him a worse defensive threat.
- Horrible lag with Bullseye, compensation however people used more revives than actually given back. (Should come in after the timer. Although, I was low on revives from this fight x2 and had to use units for revives for AOA that I had been saving. So now the compensation is going straight to overflow.)
- Deathless She Hulk going Unstoppable for the rest of the fight when in the nodes it states when dashing back/first medium. (Burned a few revives because I had to learn how to play the fight bugged - never got fixed before the end of event)
- Visual issues, including Units, battlechips etc completely gone, as well as alliance members “kicked” when they weren’t.
- More visual issues
- UI potentially bugged - daily super event is showing 13 steps at the moment
- The AI has been so weird for longer than a few months (worst I’ve ever seen in the toad fight). AI will hold specials when they have debuffs on them, won’t throw specials for minutes, will hold block for minutes at a time, will hold specials and block while you have buffs on you, etc. If you need proof, just go watch Lags most recent rank up video (esp in the crossbones fight)
- Not a bug, but the incursion 7 star crystals having a 90 day timer (is it 90 or 60 forgive me I forget) and still being 400k artifacts is a bit absurd. 350k would be a start and MAYBE a 30 day timer.

The list goes on. This is just recently. If I missed any please feel free to list them below. Just felt like I needed to be real for a second and justify the want/need for proper compensation across the player base that everyone has been experiencing. One great thing I will acknowledge is the adding back of sig stones and relic shards back to the BGs store for valiant players like myself who have yet to pull some of the 3 and 4 star relics. Thank you Kabam for that (although I do wish the limit I could buy was a tad bit higher - at least a whole crystal a week and at least a hundred 5 star sigs a week). And thank you again for having the team work so diligently on designing new EQ to make it interesting again. Again, this is just an honest post, not to cause an uproar but just honest and civil discussion on the matter.

Comments

JESUSCHRIST

Have you tried using VPN to connect to MCOC?

Like try using IP address from Canada and connect to MCOC with the help of a VPN

I'm not sure what country you are from but it seems there's some connection issue to their servers, could be geographical reasons

JESUSCHRIST

When there's a connection issue, sometimes when you reroute your traffic through a third country, it usually works to solve whatever connection issue that is present

Try different IP addresses from different countries, it usually works amazingly well to solve connection issues

dfmoore26

When there's a connection issue, sometimes when you reroute your traffic through a third country, it usually works to solve whatever connection issue that is present

Try different IP addresses from different countries, it usually works amazingly well to solve connection issues

I appreciate the assistance you are providing. I truly do love the game and the community and don’t enjoy complaining on forums. Just frustrated and venting.

Using a VPN through multiple countries didn’t work unfortunately.

JESUSCHRIST

When there's a connection issue, sometimes when you reroute your traffic through a third country, it usually works to solve whatever connection issue that is present

Try different IP addresses from different countries, it usually works amazingly well to solve connection issues
I appreciate the assistance you are providing. I truly do love the game and the community and don’t enjoy complaining on forums. Just frustrated and venting.

Using a VPN through multiple countries didn’t work unfortunately.

Any other games you play, any issues connecting to their servers?

Graves_3

When there's a connection issue, sometimes when you reroute your traffic through a third country, it usually works to solve whatever connection issue that is present

Try different IP addresses from different countries, it usually works amazingly well to solve connection issues
I appreciate the assistance you are providing. I truly do love the game and the community and don’t enjoy complaining on forums. Just frustrated and venting.

Using a VPN through multiple countries didn’t work unfortunately.

Have you tried signing out of Game Center? Not sure if it will work but worth a try.

JESUSCHRIST

Yup

Previously iOS devices had issues playing MCOC when signed in to Game centre

Log out of Game centre and try again

JESUSCHRIST

By other devices, you meant android devices as well?

dfmoore26

By other devices, you meant android devices as well?

Tried VPN, tried logged in and out of Game Center, no issues with other games.. unfortunately no android devices to try, but it’s also not like my Apple devices are old or shouldn’t work.

JESUSCHRIST

By other devices, you meant android devices as well?
Tried VPN, tried logged in and out of Game Center, no issues with other games.. unfortunately no android devices to try, but it’s also not like my Apple devices are old or shouldn’t work.

Basically I would look at the different levels to identify which is having issues

Phone OS: I'm using 18.3 so that shouldn't be the problem
Phone and iPad model: Yours is a relatively new model so that shouldn't be the problem (I have both android and iOS devices as backup)
MCOC app: You have tried uninstalling and reinstalling so it's not app having issues
Internet connection: You are able to connect to other games servers so that shouldn't be the problem
Country level: You tried different countries IP addresses so that shouldn't be the problem
Kabam server: It is working for everyone else so that isn't the core of the problem

Is there anything I missed out on?
Try borrowing your neighbour's WiFi network
If playing is important, try android devices

JackTheSnack

This shouldn’t be an issue on good wifi and an iPhone 15 pro that’s completely up to date. Almost cost me elders marks if my opponent wouldn’t have goofed

Eakomo

Kabam should give everyone compensation except Demonzfyre 😄

Dude has 40 disagree’s on his comment here 😂

Yet the other day someone argued with me disagree ment nothing lol.

Demonzfyre must have record for the lost disagree on forum, maybe they can compensate a disagree compensation for him.

Thanks for kabam pinwheel for monitoring and watching the thread and seeing the majority of the people concerns for the game.

Crazy how they're arguing against it as always, knowing damn well if Kabam issued comp, they're going to claim it just like everybody else 😂
I don't have a specific opinion on whether the accumulated issues that have plagued the game recently warrant compensation of some kind (if you put a gun to my head, I would probably say "probably yes, with caveats") but speaking only for myself and no one else, the reason why I tend to be far more conservative about compensation in general is because I see rewards in general differently than I think most players do. Most players probably see compensation packages as analogous to a teacher deliberately putting an easy question on the final exam that everyone can get correct. They see it as a net benefit, and a benefit to all players. However, having seen how the sausage is made in more than one game, I see it differently because I know the final is not graded on a scale, it is graded on a curve. Giving everyone an easy question doesn't mean everyone has a better chance of getting an A. It probably means unbeknownst to the students, all the other questions are harder than originally intended.

A reward you give everyone is not really a reward, and while I'll certainly take them, I don't have as positive an opinion of them as most players do, because they only see the (visible) present, and not the (invisible) cost we'll all be paying to get them. It is a curious thing to wrap one's head around, that people think Kabam is "greedy" when they refuse to give us higher rewards, when in fact the only people who pay for rewards are the players. Kabam pays nothing to add a reward to the game. Players do, just in subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) ways.

On the matter of compensation, when we used to have downtime for maintenance, we used to get some general compensation based on what we could get for missing out for playing the game during that period ( and especially since it most times took longer than expected).

Now it is not bad or wrong to expect compensation when issues occur. Some like visual issues might not need compensation for that specific issue but it lingering fir a long time and especially coupled with other bugs and issues does warrant so.e compensation from kabam at least at a minimum 5o aknowdge that an issue went wrong and it was fixed.

Ignoring issues and telling you about them aftwards is something kabam is good at doing to avoid any sort of compensation over the issue. Ai having problems no that's just you.

On thr analogy. It is very odd and doesn't fit the case with the game.
There is no teacher that marks an exam based on a curve, yes the results can be fitted to a binomial curve but only after the exam is marked and records done.
Removing a hard question or giving an extra question that is easy 'before is not compensation or a reward.
But if all students were given +10 to move the curve up it is a compensation for maybe a very hard exam yes that is a compensation for the exam.

Tdlr: compensation isn't a reward and shouldn't be treated as a reward. Now what people might have lost might be too much to be compensated I.e. a lot of lost bg matches, war and the likes but still compensating for r3sorcrs used or rewards missed during that period should be expected.

RottenSwamps

By other devices, you meant android devices as well?
Tried VPN, tried logged in and out of Game Center, no issues with other games.. unfortunately no android devices to try, but it’s also not like my Apple devices are old or shouldn’t work.
Basically I would look at the different levels to identify which is having issues

Phone OS: I'm using 18.3 so that shouldn't be the problem
Phone and iPad model: Yours is a relatively new model so that shouldn't be the problem (I have both android and iOS devices as backup)
MCOC app: You have tried uninstalling and reinstalling so it's not app having issues
Internet connection: You are able to connect to other games servers so that shouldn't be the problem
Country level: You tried different countries IP addresses so that shouldn't be the problem
Kabam server: It is working for everyone else so that isn't the core of the problem

Is there anything I missed out on?
Try borrowing your neighbour's WiFi network
If playing is important, try android devices

Thank you, JesusChrist

unknown

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Average_Desi

I'm not any kind of authority on anything but what I think would potentially be a good idea for kabam, specifically the mcoc branch of kabam is opening up how they hire people a little bit. Many positions are in person/hybrid Vancouver or California.
Open some stuff up to remote work and get some programmers from the community who have been playing for a long time to take a look at stuff and help. Could be part time, could be full time. I'm sure there's people who are very knowledgeable in the tech field and in the game itself who would love to do that, would probably even do it for less pay, I know I would.

Sneaky internship

unknown

This content has been removed.

Slig

My biggest issue at the moment is that it's really risky for me to intercept atm. Besides the fact that the AI doesn't like to charge, even when they do and I'm sure I intercepted correctly, a lot of the time I whiff and get hit in the face instead.

Agree that this is the biggest issue right now.

DrZola

My biggest issue at the moment is that it's really risky for me to intercept atm. Besides the fact that the AI doesn't like to charge, even when they do and I'm sure I intercepted correctly, a lot of the time I whiff and get hit in the face instead.
Agree that this is the biggest issue right now.

It will become a bigger issue when Epoch rolls out.

Dr. Zola

JackTheSnack

My biggest issue at the moment is that it's really risky for me to intercept atm. Besides the fact that the AI doesn't like to charge, even when they do and I'm sure I intercepted correctly, a lot of the time I whiff and get hit in the face instead.
Agree that this is the biggest issue right now.
It will become a bigger issue when Epoch rolls out.

Dr. Zola

I have a bad feeling about the ares AI

Searmenis

I don't see anything on the new trello board about champions holding heavies by themselves.

DNA3000

Kabam should give everyone compensation except Demonzfyre 😄

Dude has 40 disagree’s on his comment here 😂

Yet the other day someone argued with me disagree ment nothing lol.

Demonzfyre must have record for the lost disagree on forum, maybe they can compensate a disagree compensation for him.

Thanks for kabam pinwheel for monitoring and watching the thread and seeing the majority of the people concerns for the game.

Crazy how they're arguing against it as always, knowing damn well if Kabam issued comp, they're going to claim it just like everybody else 😂
I don't have a specific opinion on whether the accumulated issues that have plagued the game recently warrant compensation of some kind (if you put a gun to my head, I would probably say "probably yes, with caveats") but speaking only for myself and no one else, the reason why I tend to be far more conservative about compensation in general is because I see rewards in general differently than I think most players do. Most players probably see compensation packages as analogous to a teacher deliberately putting an easy question on the final exam that everyone can get correct. They see it as a net benefit, and a benefit to all players. However, having seen how the sausage is made in more than one game, I see it differently because I know the final is not graded on a scale, it is graded on a curve. Giving everyone an easy question doesn't mean everyone has a better chance of getting an A. It probably means unbeknownst to the students, all the other questions are harder than originally intended.

A reward you give everyone is not really a reward, and while I'll certainly take them, I don't have as positive an opinion of them as most players do, because they only see the (visible) present, and not the (invisible) cost we'll all be paying to get them. It is a curious thing to wrap one's head around, that people think Kabam is "greedy" when they refuse to give us higher rewards, when in fact the only people who pay for rewards are the players. Kabam pays nothing to add a reward to the game. Players do, just in subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) ways.
Interesting analogy, and one that seems typical of dev-think.

Using the teacher analogy, I would surmise that many players think of the scenario more like this…

…the teacher gives a test and supplies the pencil and paper to take it—however, the pencil lead keeps breaking and the paper is thin and tears a fair bit when the students write.

Can the students finish the test? Sure, but they are constantly getting up and running to the sharpener to “revive” their pencil lead and they have to be extra careful to avoid “inputs” more likely to tear the fragile sheets of paper.

Because the students mostly managed to finish the test, the teacher concludes everything turned out just fine.

Dr. Zola
I think my first reply was a bit hasty, and thus harsher than warranted, as having more time to consider I think what I should have said is that your analogy doesn't supersede mine because it addresses a completely different thing. You seem to think my analogy argues against compensation because it claims there's nothing worth compensating for, and are trying to make the case that instead the problem is invisible to the developers. However, that has nothing to do with my post at all. My post does not address whether there exists problems for which compensation would be warranted (in fact I state at the start I would lean in the direction of that being the case) but rather the reason why I generally do not value material reward compensation packages as much as the average player might.

You can simultaneously believe compensation is warranted, and also believe no compensation possible actually helps in the long run. Some bells can't be unrung.
What troubles me is, as I understand it, is that this view seems to derive from a zero-sum approach. To use your words, if we get an easy question, then that “probably means unbeknownst to the students, all the other questions are harder than originally intended.”

The realization that developers might view it this way is disappointing. There’s no apparent realization on their part that the test is already harder than it should be for the student—not because of the questions, but because of the inadequate tools provided to answer them.

Dr. Zola

It has nothing to do with viewpoint, it has to do with the fundamentals of progressional games.

In theory, a school teacher doesn't have to grade on a curve. They can choose to do a flat 90% or higher is an A, 80% or higher is a B, etc. In that case, putting easy questions on the test would in fact cause everyone to have an easier time getting a higher grade.

The problem with balancing game economies, at least for games like this, is the overriding constraint is not set arbitrarily by the developers, it is set by, for lack of a better way of putting it, the laws of mathematics. The more of a reward you place into a game, the less proportional benefit that reward can provide. Long before the mathematical constraint is reached, there's a psychological one that kicks in where humans notice this effect happening, but even if the game was played by emotionless robots, the ultimate reward constraint is the law of proportionality. It just happens to manifest psychologically even more strongly than the math would require.

The math makes reward dilution inevitable, human psychology compels players to react to this, and the game cannot sustain itself without constantly dealing with this. And the only way that's possible is by recognizing, and then working with the fact that rewards have diminishing returns. If there's another way to look at it and then deal with it, no one I'm aware of has ever found it, nor do I believe it is logically possible for an alternative to exist. At least not in any game constructed like MCOC, which includes all progressional games as a service supported by a free to play model.

SirGamesBond

I have been clearing image cluttering my Google drive. Look what I found from the year 2019....hehehehehe

This was the massively bugged April update, cmm or fury were launched.
This was the first time where the AI was changed drastically. NC trick (basically light hit whiff defender block trick)
This is where we started to get reparry.

I found the Miike's: 'git gud' and 'use dem units' But can't post it here.

JESUSCHRIST

Can we be really honest?

You can't handle the truth!!

HungaryHippo

By other devices, you meant android devices as well?
Tried VPN, tried logged in and out of Game Center, no issues with other games.. unfortunately no android devices to try, but it’s also not like my Apple devices are old or shouldn’t work.
Basically I would look at the different levels to identify which is having issues

Phone OS: I'm using 18.3 so that shouldn't be the problem
Phone and iPad model: Yours is a relatively new model so that shouldn't be the problem (I have both android and iOS devices as backup)
MCOC app: You have tried uninstalling and reinstalling so it's not app having issues
Internet connection: You are able to connect to other games servers so that shouldn't be the problem
Country level: You tried different countries IP addresses so that shouldn't be the problem
Kabam server: It is working for everyone else so that isn't the core of the problem

Is there anything I missed out on?
Try borrowing your neighbour's WiFi network
If playing is important, try android devices

Crazy that we've gotten to the point where iOS now sucks for this game. I switched to iOS for this game. This is literally Stockholm's at this point.

Eakomo

Kabam should give everyone compensation except Demonzfyre 😄

Dude has 40 disagree’s on his comment here 😂

Yet the other day someone argued with me disagree ment nothing lol.

Demonzfyre must have record for the lost disagree on forum, maybe they can compensate a disagree compensation for him.

Thanks for kabam pinwheel for monitoring and watching the thread and seeing the majority of the people concerns for the game.

Crazy how they're arguing against it as always, knowing damn well if Kabam issued comp, they're going to claim it just like everybody else 😂
I don't have a specific opinion on whether the accumulated issues that have plagued the game recently warrant compensation of some kind (if you put a gun to my head, I would probably say "probably yes, with caveats") but speaking only for myself and no one else, the reason why I tend to be far more conservative about compensation in general is because I see rewards in general differently than I think most players do. Most players probably see compensation packages as analogous to a teacher deliberately putting an easy question on the final exam that everyone can get correct. They see it as a net benefit, and a benefit to all players. However, having seen how the sausage is made in more than one game, I see it differently because I know the final is not graded on a scale, it is graded on a curve. Giving everyone an easy question doesn't mean everyone has a better chance of getting an A. It probably means unbeknownst to the students, all the other questions are harder than originally intended.

A reward you give everyone is not really a reward, and while I'll certainly take them, I don't have as positive an opinion of them as most players do, because they only see the (visible) present, and not the (invisible) cost we'll all be paying to get them. It is a curious thing to wrap one's head around, that people think Kabam is "greedy" when they refuse to give us higher rewards, when in fact the only people who pay for rewards are the players. Kabam pays nothing to add a reward to the game. Players do, just in subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) ways.
Interesting analogy, and one that seems typical of dev-think.

Using the teacher analogy, I would surmise that many players think of the scenario more like this…

…the teacher gives a test and supplies the pencil and paper to take it—however, the pencil lead keeps breaking and the paper is thin and tears a fair bit when the students write.

Can the students finish the test? Sure, but they are constantly getting up and running to the sharpener to “revive” their pencil lead and they have to be extra careful to avoid “inputs” more likely to tear the fragile sheets of paper.

Because the students mostly managed to finish the test, the teacher concludes everything turned out just fine.

Dr. Zola
I think my first reply was a bit hasty, and thus harsher than warranted, as having more time to consider I think what I should have said is that your analogy doesn't supersede mine because it addresses a completely different thing. You seem to think my analogy argues against compensation because it claims there's nothing worth compensating for, and are trying to make the case that instead the problem is invisible to the developers. However, that has nothing to do with my post at all. My post does not address whether there exists problems for which compensation would be warranted (in fact I state at the start I would lean in the direction of that being the case) but rather the reason why I generally do not value material reward compensation packages as much as the average player might.

You can simultaneously believe compensation is warranted, and also believe no compensation possible actually helps in the long run. Some bells can't be unrung.
What troubles me is, as I understand it, is that this view seems to derive from a zero-sum approach. To use your words, if we get an easy question, then that “probably means unbeknownst to the students, all the other questions are harder than originally intended.”

The realization that developers might view it this way is disappointing. There’s no apparent realization on their part that the test is already harder than it should be for the student—not because of the questions, but because of the inadequate tools provided to answer them.

Dr. Zola
It has nothing to do with viewpoint, it has to do with the fundamentals of progressional games.

In theory, a school teacher doesn't have to grade on a curve. They can choose to do a flat 90% or higher is an A, 80% or higher is a B, etc. In that case, putting easy questions on the test would in fact cause everyone to have an easier time getting a higher grade.

The problem with balancing game economies, at least for games like this, is the overriding constraint is not set arbitrarily by the developers, it is set by, for lack of a better way of putting it, the laws of mathematics. The more of a reward you place into a game, the less proportional benefit that reward can provide. Long before the mathematical constraint is reached, there's a psychological one that kicks in where humans notice this effect happening, but even if the game was played by emotionless robots, the ultimate reward constraint is the law of proportionality. It just happens to manifest psychologically even more strongly than the math would require.

The math makes reward dilution inevitable, human psychology compels players to react to this, and the game cannot sustain itself without constantly dealing with this. And the only way that's possible is by recognizing, and then working with the fact that rewards have diminishing returns. If there's another way to look at it and then deal with it, no one I'm aware of has ever found it, nor do I believe it is logically possible for an alternative to exist. At least not in any game constructed like MCOC, which includes all progressional games as a service supported by a free to play model.

There is no teacher that marks like that, what you are confusing is how different systems and places have different grade scaling which usually means very little other than for comparisons when converted to the same grading.
also if a teacher doesn't want anyone to pass and they even the simplest questions no one will pass it's up to them.

The problem with balancing game economies, at least for games like this, is the overriding constraint is not set arbitrarily by the developers, it is set by, for lack of a better way of putting it, the laws of mathematics. The more of a reward you place into a game, the less proportional benefit that reward can provide.

Mathematics is useless without a problem to solve or situation to analyze and understand, so breaking a law (there are a lot of laws for many situations, parameters and e.t.c.). If it is economics law we want to meet then it should be that, or optimization laws there are laws for situations in that.
And in particular more rewards leads to diminishing returns on what? the same rewards that are being increased? or the value? or the dilution. there are all separate topics that can interact together but don't make any sense in an mcoc context.
We just got alliance rewards buff does that now mean we're suddenly going to have all the rewards reduced because 1% of the players can get better rewards? make it make sense.

on another progression game that free to play, unless it is specifically mobile Warframe comes to mind, and for a game that's 12 years ago and still going strong with 40k players and recently peaked with 120k, they must be doing something good with their market system and game mechanics to keep players interested for so long

Buttehrs

Can we be really honest?

You can't handle the truth!!

Why do I hear this in Roy Emery's voice? Or is that the intention?

JESUSCHRIST

Can we be really honest?

You can't handle the truth!!
Why do I hear this in Roy Emery's voice? Or is that the intention?

Buttehrs

Can we be really honest?

You can't handle the truth!!
Why do I hear this in Roy Emery's voice? Or is that the intention?

Same. But also different. Both are generational. 😃