Competitive balance/game integrity questions

There have been many posts, emails and verbal statements about maintaining a competitive balance.
We all know you can pay to further your way. With regards to your personal progression.
But any competitive game mode is supposed to be fair.
I know a bunch of people that don’t understand the concept will say “life isn’t fair”. Competition is though . Competition is where everyone has the same rules and competes for the same prizes.
Hopefully i don’t need to explain what integrity is within this system.

Arena has a time limit and all players are competing for the same prizes. Paying for the sigil now saves time and increases everyone’s score who has it. Thus removing this balance.
Why has the integrity of this mode been changed to pay to win?

Alliance war is the most competitive game mode in the game. Why are CCP members allowed to compete in this mode?
Every champ released they have already played. Day 1 when whales rank and put them in on defenses. Every CCP member has had the opportunity to test and counter. While everyone else is trying to figure them out.
One CCP member does the deep dives, having extensively tested them.
The war map and tactics are changing.
They get the ability to test every champ at every rank before deciding who to rank.
And never needlessly ranking by mistake!
Do they get to test the WAR map also?
They get paid to play (because of YouTube), giving them greater time on the game. Their choice and life. No problem there
One of them is a Kabam employee and gets compensated by Kabam while also getting paid by players for playing and in many ways reviewing and advising them on counters(this would be illegal in many industries and is a clear conflict of interest).
As well as advising their alliance members on who to rank before CCP challenges are released
Where is the integrity?
Paid by Kabam
Early access to every champ 100% competitive advantage
Paid by players
Sharing information with their alliance mates
Finishing with max rewards in COMPETITIVE modes like aw.
If you’re allowed to rank any new champ before it’s released, you also have the ability to get an early jump on prestige through testing. Providing an advantage in AQ as well.

Why is this allowed?
How can people pay for an advantage after years of saying you won’t allow DIRECT advantages in competitive modes?
How come employees are allowed to compete for top prizes?
How are CCP members allowed to compete after being given a competitive advantage?
Why are all the people you give this advantage to allowed to gather and collaborate?
collectively multiplying this advantage

Why have you destroyed the illusion of a fair competition?
These are legitimate questions that i should be able to have answered.
Also. Why are all the war changes taking advantage of reported “AI” related game issues?
If it’s really unintentional, why would everything be based around those failures?

Comments

PT_99

Maybe watch CCP creator's videos?
Many YouTube channels also showcase new champs, also makes tier list of who to rankup this meta?

Arena express should be for all tho but whatever it's Kebem's game afterall.

But competition doesn't mean everyone is on equal level,
Deck building is big part of game and taking it out is just stupid.

CoMinow

Maybe watch CCP creator's videos?
Many YouTube channels also showcase new champs, also makes tier list of who to rankup this meta?

Arena express should be for all tho but whatever it's Kebem's game afterall.

But competition doesn't mean everyone is on equal level,
Deck building is big part of game and taking it out is just stupid.

I never mentioned “deck building” or taking it out. Personal progression is completely different.
I never said “equal level”
You aren’t responding to anything i said.
In futbol/soccer is one team given more time to prepare?
How about American football?
Does the collective bargaining agreement only apply to certain teams?
If you get a greater length of time to prepare
If you get the ability to test when no one else does its a deliberate advantage given to the players you choose
This is cheating in any “COMPETITION”
This is a fact and not opinion

CoMinow

Apologists will always attack And somehow disagree…. with questions?
These are questions

If you’re going to disagree. Then explain how a question is wrong instead of hiding
Is arena not pay to win?
Do creators not get an advantage?
Is there zero conflict with employees sharing information with teammates?

unknown

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willrun4adonut

Apologists will always attack And somehow disagree…. with questions?
These are questions

If you’re going to disagree. Then explain how a question is wrong instead of hiding
Is arena not pay to win?
Do creators not get an advantage?
Is there zero conflict with employees sharing information with teammates?

What are you paying to win for in arenas? Six star champions? I'm fine if that's what they're paying to win.

laserjohn26

Arena has always been pay to win. Long before bots and mods when rosters were small, it was literally who would spend the most units to recharge champs constantly.

ahmynuts

Apologists will always attack And somehow disagree…. with questions?
These are questions

If you’re going to disagree. Then explain how a question is wrong instead of hiding
Is arena not pay to win?
Do creators not get an advantage?
Is there zero conflict with employees sharing information with teammates?

Considering the main prize of arena is units and everyone can get the units, no it's not pay to win
No, there is pretty much no advantage to being a creator that genuinely matters in the competitive game.
Who cares

unknown

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FiiNCH

Mountain, meet molehill..

magnus_xix

What do you propose Kabam do exactly? CCP members are not allowed entirely to partake in competitive AW? That would be just be nonsensical especially to those aspiring to be content creators.

Also, you are way overestimating the impact these CCP members have on their alliances reard placement. They would more than likely finish at the exact same spot without any involvement from the CCP because an alliance is made up of 30 people not 5.

Having said that, the whole situation with Zola and the December CCP retreat did rub me the wrong way.

DocWest

Having said that, the whole situation with Zola and the December CCP retreat did rub me the wrong way.

What happened at the retreat?

Abspain101

Someone must have lost out on masters to an alliance with ccp members and instead of taking responsibility for their alliance place blame on kabam and letting ccp players play in war

ahmynuts

Having said that, the whole situation with Zola and the December CCP retreat did rub me the wrong way.
What happened at the retreat?

They found out Zola was going to be an okay defender and were able to start saving their catalysts beforehand

TotemCorruption

Apologists will always attack And somehow disagree…. with questions?
These are questions

If you’re going to disagree. Then explain how a question is wrong instead of hiding
Is arena not pay to win?
Do creators not get an advantage?
Is there zero conflict with employees sharing information with teammates?
What are you paying to win for in arenas? Six star champions? I'm fine if that's what they're paying to win.

You're not jealous that someone spent 10 hours grinding arena to get a 6* Gentle?

Abspain101

Apologists will always attack And somehow disagree…. with questions?
These are questions

If you’re going to disagree. Then explain how a question is wrong instead of hiding
Is arena not pay to win?
Do creators not get an advantage?
Is there zero conflict with employees sharing information with teammates?
What are you paying to win for in arenas? Six star champions? I'm fine if that's what they're paying to win.
You're not jealous that someone spent 10 hours grinding arena to get a 6* Gentle?

If they are willing to put in that 10 hours to grind for a champion they deserve to get that champion in my eyes as long as its legit grinding and not boting

klobberintyme

Whew.

One "unfair" aspect is the ios vs android aspect, where Android users can clear their memory cache much easier and potentially avoid slowdown or other functionality issues. Perhaps.

Other than that, every user has the exact same opportunities as another to succeed or fail in this game. If you slap your chest and say I spend X hours a day doing Y game activities and deserve Z rewards but there's hordes of others doing Xx5 hours a day doing Yx5 activities for the same Z rewards, or even others spending cash money the equivalent of Xx9 hours for Yx9 activities, or in some cases building an online presence that takes X hours plus Xx5 game hours...

I drag my old behind to the basketball courts and do my old man set shot 3 pointer when the ball comes to me, while kids my son's age are dunking on each other, cause they play for St. Johns or something. If you're saying Hey kids i can't dunk so please stop that so we all (I) can feel competitive, well, I don't suspect that will end well, nor should it.

PT_99

Apologists will always attack And somehow disagree…. with questions?
These are questions

If you’re going to disagree. Then explain how a question is wrong instead of hiding
Is arena not pay to win?
Do creators not get an advantage?
Is there zero conflict with employees sharing information with teammates?

Calling me Kebem apologist is the biggest blunder made on forums, maybe ever.
🤣

pseudosane

Is your complaint because CCP members can test champs earlier?
It is a double edged sword, they can give feedback to kabam (and the playerbase) whether champs are good or not. That way you get to make informed decisions on a champion prior to purchase.
They put in the time to test champions in variety of scenarios.
Kabam employees playing the game actually allows them to give insight to the team about their changes, how is this a bad thing? The complaint usually is kabam employees arent playing their game, you are complaining that they are?
Also, as far as i know, all the ccp/kabam employees have a variety of rankups based on their playstyle.
In the end, they are helping the playbase make their own decisions by showcasing champs in a variety of modes. Their guides are what we use, which is valuable information.

TotemCorruption

Apologists will always attack And somehow disagree…. with questions?
These are questions

If you’re going to disagree. Then explain how a question is wrong instead of hiding
Is arena not pay to win?
Do creators not get an advantage?
Is there zero conflict with employees sharing information with teammates?
What are you paying to win for in arenas? Six star champions? I'm fine if that's what they're paying to win.
You're not jealous that someone spent 10 hours grinding arena to get a 6* Gentle?
If they are willing to put in that 10 hours to grind for a champion they deserve to get that champion in my eyes as long as its legit grinding and not boting

yeah, sorry, I was being sarcastic (hard to tell online i know). i'm not jealous; if they want to spend 10 hours for a 6* champ, go for it....

SirGamesBond

There are gangs inside ccp.
Shade thrown

Demonzfyre

Maybe watch CCP creator's videos?
Many YouTube channels also showcase new champs, also makes tier list of who to rankup this meta?

Arena express should be for all tho but whatever it's Kebem's game afterall.

But competition doesn't mean everyone is on equal level,
Deck building is big part of game and taking it out is just stupid.
I never mentioned “deck building” or taking it out. Personal progression is completely different.
I never said “equal level”
You aren’t responding to anything i said.
In futbol/soccer is one team given more time to prepare?
How about American football?
Does the collective bargaining agreement only apply to certain teams?
If you get a greater length of time to prepare
If you get the ability to test when no one else does its a deliberate advantage given to the players you choose
This is cheating in any “COMPETITION”
This is a fact and not opinion

It is in fact, just your opinion.

In american football, players regularly practice outside of normal team times. QBs invite WRs over to practice together to get used to speeds and such.

CCP members are showing you how new champs work but they don't get to practice against them in war on the beta server. What you're saying about CCP isn't anything new and it's been told many times that there is hardly any advantage a CCP member has. Not only that but why aren't you more upset that so many actual Kabam employees play? DLL plays in high tier war, where's your fake outrage for that? He's literally a champion designer.

SirGamesBond

I agree

With 20% of the thread
Rest 80% is

JESUSCHRIST

It's just a game, the stakes are not that high for MCOC

Arena only awards 6* champion

The rewards from AW and AQ are also not that attractive

You want to win real stuff, go compete in other E sports where they have multi million dollars prize money

This game only rewards peanuts

unknown

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unknown

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DNA3000

Apologists will always attack And somehow disagree…. with questions?
These are questions

If you’re going to disagree. Then explain how a question is wrong instead of hiding
Is arena not pay to win?

No. The vast majority of players play arena to earn units, so most players do the opposite of pay to win, they play to earn currency. And while it might have been true when they were first introduced that new release featured runs required spending, these days that's not really the case much. If you want a 6* featured champ you can fight it out in the featured arena and maybe spend some units, or wait for the second run in the basic and spend nothing.

Do creators not get an advantage?

Yes and no. Yes, they get an advantage in terms of having early access and testing opportunities. However, that's counterbalanced by the fact that they actually spend time testing and creating content regarding that testing, and that's a cost to them. Content creators spend dozens, sometimes hundreds of hours a month making content. They also spend additional time discussing and providing feedback to the developers. That amount of time spent would translate to thousands of units per month I ordinarily earn in the arena grinding milestones. And any advantage they have with regard to early access to champions gets quickly neutralized soon after the champions are released, as evidenced by the fact that the vast majority of tier one alliance members aren't content creators, and they seem to maintain their relative competitive strength just fine.

Is there zero conflict with employees sharing information with teammates?

Yes, there is no conflict of interest with employees sharing information with team mates, provided that information is not covered by NDA. CCP members are not allowed to share their knowledge or experience with anyone outside of the CCP program until information embargoes expire. Once that happens, they are allowed to share their knowledge and experience with their alliance mates to the same degree they can share it with the rest of the world.

DNA3000

Maybe watch CCP creator's videos?
Many YouTube channels also showcase new champs, also makes tier list of who to rankup this meta?

Arena express should be for all tho but whatever it's Kebem's game afterall.

But competition doesn't mean everyone is on equal level,
Deck building is big part of game and taking it out is just stupid.
I never mentioned “deck building” or taking it out. Personal progression is completely different.
I never said “equal level”
You aren’t responding to anything i said.
In futbol/soccer is one team given more time to prepare?
How about American football?
Does the collective bargaining agreement only apply to certain teams?
If you get a greater length of time to prepare
If you get the ability to test when no one else does its a deliberate advantage given to the players you choose
This is cheating in any “COMPETITION”
This is a fact and not opinion

Thing is, MCOC is not a competition. Alliance war is a competitive game mode in an otherwise non-competitive game. The game as a whole prioritizes things like community, information sharing, and cooperation globally than it does pure competition. So while it would be ideal if we could encapsulate Alliance War into its own little capsule of competition, that would be counterproductive to the larger game. I've wrote tons of guides and done lots of testing and investigation on the game. I was the first (and only player) to release the full mechanical details of how diminishing returns works. That knowledge would be a significant competitive advantage to possess. Should I have been encouraged to keep it to myself? How much about this game did you learn yourself? Did you learn the mechanics, the effects, the gameplay rules all through your own efforts? There's no handbook of MCOC anyone can buy to learn how to play MCOC. Everything everyone knows comes from other players, and most of that knowledge comes with sizeable competitive advantages in competitive game play.

Its the players who write the guides, who design the cheatsheets, who film the tutorials, that ultimately spread that knowledge around. And in a PvE game, that's encouraged. In a 100% pure PvP game, that would be significantly disincentivized. When Battlegrounds was introduced many players complained about how difficult it was to progress. Many of them might have quit entirely or significantly curtailed their participation, especially lower progress players. If I thought about Battlegrounds purely in terms of competitive play, it would be entirely to my own personal advantage to let them. Instead I spent a ton of time testing, then explaining the dynamics of the Victory track and how difficulty moderates throughout a season, and the whole idea of pacing progress and waiting for later in the season when things get too tough comes almost entirely from me. Because I still think about the game as a cooperative game with competitive elements, not a competitive zero-sum game.

When was the last time you used a revive in Alliance War? The reason those don't cost a gazillion units is because someone thought about Alliance War as a competitive game mode within a cooperative game, and decided it was equally important for Alliance War to be inclusive as it was for it to be competitive. You're welcome. It would be entirely against the nature of the game to shut out the people who help it the most, by providing the most knowledge about the game to the most number of players.

No competition is blindly "fair." Every competition decides what they will value and what they will not, and acts appropriately. In NCAA basketball, the final tournament places the top seeded teams against the lowest seeded teams, essentially matching the strongest teams against the weakest teams. That might seem unfair, and it is, in terms of those individual match ups. But that's because the competition doesn't prioritize "fair match ups." It prioritizes rewarding season performance. Teams with the strongest performance during the season are rewarded with better advantageous seeding, because the tournament is an extension of the season, and matching by strength would be penalizing the teams that did the best during the regular season. That is considered nonsensical.

In the same way, MCOC does not penalize the players who voluntarily contribute to the game. Members of the CCP both volunteer to participate, and are selected for their propensity and success in contributing to the wider MCOC community. They get some benefits for that, and to the extent that might offer them advantages in-game, those are considered reasonable benefits for their contributions. In the same way spenders get advantages over non-spenders, and we consider those advantages to be reasonable to provide for the players without whom the game wouldn't exist.

All competitions allow competitors to have some advantages and not others. And the way they decide which advantages are acceptable is by deciding what their priorities are for that competition. Some sports have salary caps like the NFL. Some don't like the MLB. That doesn't make the NFL more fair. Those are just the rules.