Epoch of Pain is as bad as it seems, especially if you're a scrub.

Epoch of Pain is very tough and Ares is one of the most challenging bosses ever designed. Anyone saying it's not as bad has years of skill and experience, a solid roster and substantial resources to tackle a content like this. But for an average player who just do chill aq, eq, sq and don't have a diverse roster, this content is going to be extremely difficult. There are couple of not too difficult paths for a quick completion and even those require certain champions to minimize their level of difficulty. My intention is not to demotivate players who want to do this content but to make them realize that experiences might differ widely based on where you stand currently.

I speak from my personal experience but completion is much harder than exploration. Your first bout with Ares is not going to be fun especially when you can't seem to deal with his specials at all and have to sink in lots of revives and potions to slowly chip him away. The fight also ramps up in difficulty as it goes on and even getting a proper opening to deal some damage is going to feel like a challenge in the later phases. Based on how you did in the previous path fights, exhaustion of resources and mental fatigue is going to add another layer of difficulty to the fight.

My suggestion is simply: Do not rush if you're not ready. You're going to have FOMO looking at other people getting great champions and R4s but it can wait. It's a permanent content and the rewards are not going to age at least for a while. Watch tutorials on YouTube, gather resources and try to tackle the content with a relaxed but focused mindset. And don't forget to use boosts. The content is difficult and you're going to need all the help that you can get your hands on. Best of Luck.

Comments

PT_99

Avg player who chills by doing AQ EQ SQ are not endgame players,
Ares is made for endgame players.

To beat Ares you have 5 methods, going from cheapest to costliest.

1. Always look at his eyes when he points at you when he use specials, single eyes glow means sp1, double bright glow means sp2, if you can figure this out then you can dodge his specials easily.

2. Pause game after he kicks and pulls out weapon, if it's orange it means sp1, if it's blue then it's sp2.

3. Ignore everything and just learn only sp1 or sp2, 50-50 chance, it is what it is, not good.

4. Ignore literally everything and spam revives to build 35 charges and beat Ares because Kebem gives you so much damage after 35 revives that you starts to hit like truck, very costly.

5. Get someone else to do it for you, WILL GET YOU BANNED, don't do it 🤣

FeydRautha

Avg player who chills by doing AQ EQ SQ are not endgame players,
Ares is made for endgame players.

To beat Ares you have 5 methods, going from cheapest to costliest.

1. Always look at his eyes when he points at you when he use specials, single eyes glow means sp1, double bright glow means sp2, if you can figure this out then you can dodge his specials easily.

2. Pause game after he kicks and pulls out weapon, if it's orange it means sp1, if it's blue then it's sp2.

3. Ignore everything and just learn only sp1 or sp2, 50-50 chance, it is what it is, not good.

4. Ignore literally everything and spam revives to build 35 charges and beat Ares because Kebem gives you so much damage after 35 revives that you starts to hit like truck, very costly.

5. Get someone else to do it for you, WILL GET YOU BANNED, don't do it 🤣

Who in your view is an endgame player? For me an endgame player is someone who has explored Necropolis, has a full bg deck of 7 star Rank 3s, places very high in GC every season, spends sizeable amount in in-game purchases. I consider myself an above average player who doesn’t meet any of those endgame criteria, I do casual aq, aw, sq yet I have already 100 percent Epoch. So I don’t believe Ares is only for Endgame players. Anybody with good enough skills, roster and resources can get it done but lacking in any of these departments is gonna be quite tough is all I am saying.

shield311

Avg player who chills by doing AQ EQ SQ are not endgame players,
Ares is made for endgame players.

To beat Ares you have 5 methods, going from cheapest to costliest.

1. Always look at his eyes when he points at you when he use specials, single eyes glow means sp1, double bright glow means sp2, if you can figure this out then you can dodge his specials easily.

2. Pause game after he kicks and pulls out weapon, if it's orange it means sp1, if it's blue then it's sp2.

3. Ignore everything and just learn only sp1 or sp2, 50-50 chance, it is what it is, not good.

4. Ignore literally everything and spam revives to build 35 charges and beat Ares because Kebem gives you so much damage after 35 revives that you starts to hit like truck, very costly.

5. Get someone else to do it for you, WILL GET YOU BANNED, don't do it 🤣
Who in your view is an endgame player? For me an endgame player is someone who has explored Necropolis, has a full bg deck of 7 star Rank 3s, places very high in GC every season, spends sizeable amount in in-game purchases. I consider myself an above average player who doesn’t meet any of those endgame criteria, I do casual aq, aw, sq yet I have already 100 percent Epoch. So I don’t believe Ares is only for Endgame players. Anybody with good enough skills, roster and resources can get it done but lacking in any of these departments is gonna be quite tough is all I am saying.

Your view of endgame player is pretty accurate, I'd say someone who has explored act 8 and 9.1 and atleast done completion of necro and epoch and in progress of completing carinas and exploring other content.

shield311

Avg player who chills by doing AQ EQ SQ are not endgame players,
Ares is made for endgame players.

To beat Ares you have 5 methods, going from cheapest to costliest.

1. Always look at his eyes when he points at you when he use specials, single eyes glow means sp1, double bright glow means sp2, if you can figure this out then you can dodge his specials easily.

2. Pause game after he kicks and pulls out weapon, if it's orange it means sp1, if it's blue then it's sp2.

3. Ignore everything and just learn only sp1 or sp2, 50-50 chance, it is what it is, not good.

4. Ignore literally everything and spam revives to build 35 charges and beat Ares because Kebem gives you so much damage after 35 revives that you starts to hit like truck, very costly.

5. Get someone else to do it for you, WILL GET YOU BANNED, don't do it 🤣

I agree with all 5 points 🙏🙏ares sucked and thankfully I had overall 120+ revs including units, so it wasn't as bad and explored it quickly.

captain_rogers

I'm a scrub as well and trust me, you'll get better and start to appreciate ares as you fight him again and again.

BuggyDClown

Endgame content isn't made for weak hearts. Period

Frumpy_geezer

Avg player who chills by doing AQ EQ SQ are not endgame players,
Ares is made for endgame players.

To beat Ares you have 5 methods, going from cheapest to costliest.

1. Always look at his eyes when he points at you when he use specials, single eyes glow means sp1, double bright glow means sp2, if you can figure this out then you can dodge his specials easily.

I tried this my first time and it wasn't working for me. Judging the weapon was easier. I recently watched dune videos and discovered an easier way to tell this. If his eyes are glowing while the kick is coming in that's the second flash. So just check the eyes as the kick comes in that you dex anyway. If not glowing it's sp1 if glowing sp2

captain_rogers

Avg player who chills by doing AQ EQ SQ are not endgame players,
Ares is made for endgame players.

To beat Ares you have 5 methods, going from cheapest to costliest.

1. Always look at his eyes when he points at you when he use specials, single eyes glow means sp1, double bright glow means sp2, if you can figure this out then you can dodge his specials easily.

I tried this my first time and it wasn't working for me. Judging the weapon was easier. I recently watched dune videos and discovered an easier way to tell this. If his eyes are glowing while the kick is coming in that's the second flash. So just check the eyes as the kick comes in that you dex anyway. If not glowing it's sp1 if glowing sp2

Just pause after the initial kick, take a deep breathx and start countering him. Best way.

PT_99

Avg player who chills by doing AQ EQ SQ are not endgame players,
Ares is made for endgame players.

To beat Ares you have 5 methods, going from cheapest to costliest.

1. Always look at his eyes when he points at you when he use specials, single eyes glow means sp1, double bright glow means sp2, if you can figure this out then you can dodge his specials easily.

2. Pause game after he kicks and pulls out weapon, if it's orange it means sp1, if it's blue then it's sp2.

3. Ignore everything and just learn only sp1 or sp2, 50-50 chance, it is what it is, not good.

4. Ignore literally everything and spam revives to build 35 charges and beat Ares because Kebem gives you so much damage after 35 revives that you starts to hit like truck, very costly.

5. Get someone else to do it for you, WILL GET YOU BANNED, don't do it 🤣
Who in your view is an endgame player? For me an endgame player is someone who has explored Necropolis, has a full bg deck of 7 star Rank 3s, places very high in GC every season, spends sizeable amount in in-game purchases. I consider myself an above average player who doesn’t meet any of those endgame criteria, I do casual aq, aw, sq yet I have already 100 percent Epoch. So I don’t believe Ares is only for Endgame players. Anybody with good enough skills, roster and resources can get it done but lacking in any of these departments is gonna be quite tough is all I am saying.

Necro 100%, Necro 10 year challenges and Ares 100% players are endgame players if needed basic explanation,

Anyone can do Ares 6 times,
Some do it in 10-20 revives total, some do 100+

PT_99

Avg player who chills by doing AQ EQ SQ are not endgame players,
Ares is made for endgame players.

To beat Ares you have 5 methods, going from cheapest to costliest.

1. Always look at his eyes when he points at you when he use specials, single eyes glow means sp1, double bright glow means sp2, if you can figure this out then you can dodge his specials easily.

I tried this my first time and it wasn't working for me. Judging the weapon was easier. I recently watched dune videos and discovered an easier way to tell this. If his eyes are glowing while the kick is coming in that's the second flash. So just check the eyes as the kick comes in that you dex anyway. If not glowing it's sp1 if glowing sp2

Yes glow,
It's much easier to see visually than word it out 😅

Magicsol

Evil DNA thread be like:

Furrymoosen

If it's hard because it is a challenge that requires a good deal of skill and a diverse roster, then Kabam accomplished their goal. But those are also things required of all content. Skill is especially needed for content to be most enjoyable, but roster is right behind it. EoP is just the next step in increased difficulty. The new Gauntlet is going to be the same story, especially since it is completely locked to 7*. It will be (probably less) challenging, but still quite roster dependent.

AndiKnight

But for an average player who just do chill aq, eq, sq and don't have a diverse roster, this content is going to be extremely difficult.

I mean... Yeah? That has been the truth for quite literally every form of Endgame Content in the history of the game, even going way back to RoL: If you didn't have anything to deal with the Wolverine, you got packed up and sent home faster than an Amazon Prime same day shipment delivery.

Considering how insanely outdated the rewards for AQ, EQ and SQ are, saying someone who solely does those things is an Endgame Player is ridiculous

WednesdayLength

If you're an "average chill player just don't eq and aq" then why on earth do you think that endgame content is a good idea?

FeydRautha

Considering how insanely outdated the rewards for AQ, EQ and SQ are, saying someone who solely does those things is an Endgame Player is ridiculous

The person who said that, are they in the room with us right now?

Syndicated

Considering how insanely outdated the rewards for AQ, EQ and SQ are, saying someone who solely does those things is an Endgame Player is ridiculous
The person who said that, are they in the room with us right now?

It is.

An average player that actually thinks Alliance events are useful, shouldn't Think about beat the hardest content in the Game.

I had to Beat one path with R4 6* champs, died a ton of times in My first run, if You expect to solo every fight, then get out of this bus lol

DNA3000

Epoch of Pain is very tough and Ares is one of the most challenging bosses ever designed. Anyone saying it's not as bad has years of skill and experience, a solid roster and substantial resources to tackle a content like this. But for an average player who just do chill aq, eq, sq and don't have a diverse roster, this content is going to be extremely difficult.

If you’re an experienced endgamer and are hearing lots of horror stories about Ares, it’s not as hard as it might seem. But if you’re not a veteran endgamer with a solid roster and experience with end game content and think heck it’s just a couple of fights and a boss, then it’s going to be much more difficult than you think.

But then again, if you’re that sort of player, I’m not sure how you’re supposed to reach Ares in the first place.

NONYABIZZ

Ares Is the best boss I've ever faced in this entire game.
All you have to do is watch the eyes, watch his acts of aggression and get used to the rhythm of his specials. His AI is not a problem at all.
First run I only used 1 single team revive

At first, I was getting caught with his special attacks because in the 100- 90% phase, his attacks were too slow and I was missing my parties but after my first death, everything just became super enjoyable.

I was afraid of his last 1% initially but it really wasn't that bad, nothing compares to the feeling of surviving his special attacks in that phase and knowing you've removed 18 of his charges.
I hope the next time he appears his mechanics don't get changed only the animations because this was a 10/10 boss in my experience.

Edit - PRO TIP: When ares gets to his sp2 everything on that screen should become second priority, fix your eyes on his head (eye area), note down the acts of aggression challenge and prepare yourself for that special attack. Your peripheral vision should be enough to successfully bait his special attacks if he chooses to keep attacking all you have to do is pay attention to his eyes.
I never had to use no pause method(negase) I was able to note his eye movements and react accordingly and on time everytime.

PantherusNZ

I have fully explored Act 8 and have explored 9.1. I've done a single run of Necropolis and completed 1 Carina's challenge in there as well. I've done 2 paths of Epoch so far. I generally reach GC by the end of each season but have never got out of Uru III.

I don't consider myself an endgame player at all because I generally have to revive my way through all of that content.

The sheer entitlement that people show towards the hardest parts of this game is mind-boggling.

TotemCorruption

I have fully explored Act 8 and have explored 9.1. I've done a single run of Necropolis and completed 1 Carina's challenge in there as well. I've done 2 paths of Epoch so far. I generally reach GC by the end of each season but have never got out of Uru III.

I don't consider myself an endgame player at all because I generally have to revive my way through all of that content.

The sheer entitlement that people show towards the hardest parts of this game is mind-boggling.

You are an endgame player.
Don't be fooled by braggarts on the forum who have no receipts.
Almost all players revive heavily through end game content. Watch DLL (MCOC game designer) and others when they livestream their endgame runs. If they have to revive heavily, then it's no knock for anyone else to do it too.
It's just that some people feel the need to go online and lie about how they didn't have to.

DNA3000

Avg player who chills by doing AQ EQ SQ are not endgame players,
Ares is made for endgame players.

To beat Ares you have 5 methods, going from cheapest to costliest.

1. Always look at his eyes when he points at you when he use specials, single eyes glow means sp1, double bright glow means sp2, if you can figure this out then you can dodge his specials easily.

2. Pause game after he kicks and pulls out weapon, if it's orange it means sp1, if it's blue then it's sp2.

3. Ignore everything and just learn only sp1 or sp2, 50-50 chance, it is what it is, not good.

4. Ignore literally everything and spam revives to build 35 charges and beat Ares because Kebem gives you so much damage after 35 revives that you starts to hit like truck, very costly.

5. Get someone else to do it for you, WILL GET YOU BANNED, don't do it 🤣
Who in your view is an endgame player? For me an endgame player is someone who has explored Necropolis, has a full bg deck of 7 star Rank 3s, places very high in GC every season, spends sizeable amount in in-game purchases. I consider myself an above average player who doesn’t meet any of those endgame criteria, I do casual aq, aw, sq yet I have already 100 percent Epoch. So I don’t believe Ares is only for Endgame players. Anybody with good enough skills, roster and resources can get it done but lacking in any of these departments is gonna be quite tough is all I am saying.

I doubt that is most player's definition of end game player, and I know it is not who Kabam is talking about when they talk about end game players or end game content.

There's no black and white definition of end game player, but the general idea is that an end game player has exhausted most or all of the progression-significant content in the game. There's no spending requirement to be an end game player. There's no specific requirement to play any one particular game mode. There isn't even a necessary requirement to fully explore everything.

In MCOC I believe having at least completed all the released story arc content is a requirement, which means completing up to 9.1 at the moment. It means possessing the highest progression title, Valiant at the moment. And it means tackling most of or all of the content targeting end game players as Kabam defines them to be. But there's some fuzziness there: some players do not want to do certain things that have nothing to do with progression: I did not want to do Labyrinth for example, but not exploring Labyrinth doesn't mean I'm never going to be an end gamer.

Separately, there's a difference between who content is targeted at, and who could do it. Epoch targets end gamers. But that doesn't mean only end gamers can do it. Anyone willing to burn unlimited time and unlimited resources could do Epoch. In fact, Epoch rewards actually include a concession that non-end game players might actually attempt it and complete it: that's why the RXP in Epoch comes in RXP crystals. Non-Valiants cannot earn RXP, so if Epoch granted RXP directly any non-Valiant who completed would just lose that RXP forever. But Paragons can bank those crystals and then trade them in for RXP when they become Valiant. So even Kabam knows Epoch can be done by players lower than Valiant.

But *if* you are not an end game player, which means you are not a Valiant earning Valiant-caliber rewards and possessing the typical Valiant roster and the skills most Valiant players acquire after tackling other end game tier content like Season of Suffering challenge fights, *then* Epoch can be far outside your wheelhouse. In that case, it could cost a ton of resources to complete it. But that's your choice. Kabam doesn't ask you to spend unlimited resources tackling things too difficult for you. But they allow you to try, because there are other players with the same roster as you but with the requisite skills to do much better.

NONYABIZZ

@TotemCorruption And who exactly is the "BRAGGART" with no receipts?
It seems like you're upset at the thought of someone actually enjoying the fight for what it is because you actually struggled. By the way, I got my initial clear about 4 days ago, I didn't just jump in because its a new quest and I wanted to be one of the first to complete it even tho i have no idea on how the final boss works.

I watched through trial and error of the same people you mentioned who spent lots of revives, I memorized his rotations, made sure I understood the phases and most importantly I MADE SURE I WAS READY AND CONFIDENT ENOUGH TO FIGHT ARES.

Anyways here's the "RECEIPT" you wanted

This was RUN 1 against ares, this was my second try as I MENTIONED EARLIER I struggled a bit with getting the rhythm of his special attacks as they were too slow and I kept missing parties and eating specials to the face. I died with the first champ at 92% then came in with onslaught (as i was more prepared) and took out 92% IN ONE RUN. Totalling the cost of my FIRST ARES PATH to ONE TEAM REVIVE (as i died about 3 more times during the final phase). Also ignore the hit count, I died to an ares sp3 cos I was trying to get him to last 1% lmao.

Second run

Unfortunately, I do not have final fight stats for this fight as I don't even remember why I didn't take a SS. I guess I was too carried away with showing my ally mate that I took ares to the final phase.
Anyways, believe it or not, I took ares from 100% to 1% in JUST ONE ATTEMPT this was my second run (path 6 mutant/mystic lane). After I died, I had about 2 more attempts with the alive characters on my team and ended up spending ONLY 1 SINGLE REVIVE to finish off ares.

NONYABIZZ

Third and most recent attempt. I finally got him to final phase 100% WITH FIGHT STATS TO BACK IT UP.
These are your receipts

Anyways, no one should be attempting these endgame content without full preparation because you see your fav creators doing them and you wanted that shiny new rank 4.

I WAS READY AND AT THE END OF THE DAY THIS FIGHT ENDED UP BEING ONE OF THE MOST FUN FIGHTS I'VE EVER EXPERIENCED IN THIS GAME.

If you're dieing too much to ares, complete your run and start the next path when YOU'RE FULLY PREPARED. The quest is not going anywhere, that r4 will be yours sooner or later.

ChaosMax1012

Here’s my mini account, i used maybe 15-20 revives. This is with a 6* r3 sentry the whole way through, overseer almost soloed northstar but from there on after it was all sentry. You could do this with a r2, or even a r1 6* sentry. You can also do this with any consistent debuff applicant champion, ideally one with 3+ buffs. This is probably the easiest endgame content we will ever get, with the most reasonable healthpools and node combinations (except that heimdall, stupid heimdall). Kabam cooked with this and the Crucible. Wish they gave as much attention to other events.

Folkvangr

Here’s my mini account, i used maybe 15-20 revives. This is with a 6* r3 sentry the whole way through, overseer almost soloed northstar but from there on after it was all sentry. You could do this with a r2, or even a r1 6* sentry. You can also do this with any consistent debuff applicant champion, ideally one with 3+ buffs. This is probably the easiest endgame content we will ever get, with the most reasonable healthpools and node combinations (except that heimdall, stupid heimdall). Kabam cooked with this and the Crucible. Wish they gave as much attention to other events.

Let’s see you do cassie mutant-mystic path with 6* r3

NONYABIZZ

Here’s my mini account, i used maybe 15-20 revives. This is with a 6* r3 sentry the whole way through, overseer almost soloed northstar but from there on after it was all sentry. You could do this with a r2, or even a r1 6* sentry. You can also do this with any consistent debuff applicant champion, ideally one with 3+ buffs. This is probably the easiest endgame content we will ever get, with the most reasonable healthpools and node combinations (except that heimdall, stupid heimdall). Kabam cooked with this and the Crucible. Wish they gave as much attention to other events.

Yup, I used about 10 revives on my first run which was Cassie path with mutant/mystic. Toad really COOKED ME also died to heimdall a few times. I was specifically talking about my experiences with ARES himself.
The paths are the most difficult.
Epoch was fun

TotemCorruption

@TotemCorruption And who exactly is the "BRAGGART" with no receipts?
It seems like you're upset at the thought of someone actually enjoying the fight for what it is because you actually struggled. By the way, I got my initial clear about 4 days ago, I didn't just jump in because its a new quest and I wanted to be one of the first to complete it even tho i have no idea on how the final boss works.

I watched through trial and error of the same people you mentioned who spent lots of revives, I memorized his rotations, made sure I understood the phases and most importantly I MADE SURE I WAS READY AND CONFIDENT ENOUGH TO FIGHT ARES.

Anyways here's the "RECEIPT" you wanted

This was RUN 1 against ares, this was my second try as I MENTIONED EARLIER I struggled a bit with getting the rhythm of his special attacks as they were too slow and I kept missing parties and eating specials to the face. I died with the first champ at 92% then came in with onslaught (as i was more prepared) and took out 92% IN ONE RUN. Totalling the cost of my FIRST ARES PATH to ONE TEAM REVIVE (as i died about 3 more times during the final phase). Also ignore the hit count, I died to an ares sp3 cos I was trying to get him to last 1% lmao.

Second run

Unfortunately, I do not have final fight stats for this fight as I don't even remember why I didn't take a SS. I guess I was too carried away with showing my ally mate that I took ares to the final phase.
Anyways, believe it or not, I took ares from 100% to 1% in JUST ONE ATTEMPT this was my second run (path 6 mutant/mystic lane). After I died, I had about 2 more attempts with the alive characters on my team and ended up spending ONLY 1 SINGLE REVIVE to finish off ares.

Huh? I was responding to that person saying they're not an end game player because they need to revive through content.
Never read your post or mentioned you at all; most people revive, even the game designers. A lot of people brag on the forums and elsewhere.
Anyway, if you kicked butt in this quest then you should be proud. Again, wasn't aware of or referring to you.

Herbal_Taxman

Third and most recent attempt. I finally got him to final phase 100% WITH FIGHT STATS TO BACK IT UP.
These are your receipts

Anyways, no one should be attempting these endgame content without full preparation because you see your fav creators doing them and you wanted that shiny new rank 4.

I WAS READY AND AT THE END OF THE DAY THIS FIGHT ENDED UP BEING ONE OF THE MOST FUN FIGHTS I'VE EVER EXPERIENCED IN THIS GAME.

If you're dieing too much to ares, complete your run and start the next path when YOU'RE FULLY PREPARED. The quest is not going anywhere, that r4 will be yours sooner or later.

You did an excellent job WRITING ALL THOSE WORDS.

MrSakuragi

@TotemCorruption And who exactly is the "BRAGGART" with no receipts?
It seems like you're upset at the thought of someone actually enjoying the fight for what it is because you actually struggled. By the way, I got my initial clear about 4 days ago, I didn't just jump in because its a new quest and I wanted to be one of the first to complete it even tho i have no idea on how the final boss works.

I watched through trial and error of the same people you mentioned who spent lots of revives, I memorized his rotations, made sure I understood the phases and most importantly I MADE SURE I WAS READY AND CONFIDENT ENOUGH TO FIGHT ARES.

Anyways here's the "RECEIPT" you wanted

This was RUN 1 against ares, this was my second try as I MENTIONED EARLIER I struggled a bit with getting the rhythm of his special attacks as they were too slow and I kept missing parties and eating specials to the face. I died with the first champ at 92% then came in with onslaught (as i was more prepared) and took out 92% IN ONE RUN. Totalling the cost of my FIRST ARES PATH to ONE TEAM REVIVE (as i died about 3 more times during the final phase). Also ignore the hit count, I died to an ares sp3 cos I was trying to get him to last 1% lmao.

Second run

Unfortunately, I do not have final fight stats for this fight as I don't even remember why I didn't take a SS. I guess I was too carried away with showing my ally mate that I took ares to the final phase.
Anyways, believe it or not, I took ares from 100% to 1% in JUST ONE ATTEMPT this was my second run (path 6 mutant/mystic lane). After I died, I had about 2 more attempts with the alive characters on my team and ended up spending ONLY 1 SINGLE REVIVE to finish off ares.

Pretty impressive to do that on a phone that can’t take screen shots

Vanitelia

End game gets thrown around way too often, most likely because the rewards they have include the chase rewards that most players are looking for. I think Kabam classifying it as Meta content make more sense.

Epoch is challenging, but I don't think it classifies as end game content. Those designations still go to long form, Everest-type content like LOL, Abyss, and Necro. I think Epoch falls more in line with GG. Necro is on the shorter side, but still had a point of no return and fights that you couldn't really revive through. At the time they were released, we were a rank away from having ideal matchups or ideal counters hadn't been released yet.