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Heart of Fire Apocalypse needs a tiny tiny tweak to be relevant in 2025

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  • WhatsGoodEnglishWhatsGoodEnglish Member Posts: 160 ★★
    I think 3 charges would be fair. All 4 would make him too broken
  • Herbal_TaxmanHerbal_Taxman Member Posts: 2,592 ★★★★★

    Not every champ has to be a Bg threat imo, he’s made for Aw, Aq and long form content and he performs well there. If all ramp up champs started bg fights with max charges it won’t be fair lol don’t make it a trend

    Why not though
    He’s otherwise useless in a major game mode. Most of our rank ups are for BG - they’re bringing a champ that was gate kept for too long and giving him new life - if he’s not good for BG he’s gonna stay at r1.

    What does apoc do that onslaught doesn’t?
    Make others into Horsemen?

    Shut down Evade? (This is way more useful and reliable than people think... Although, I grant your, Onslaught shutting down Miss is equally valuable, possibly more so)

    Be immune to Disorient?

    Shut down Purify effects that could be turned against you? (Champs like Captain Britain and Dust, who can't Purify the debuffs they've placed on Apocalypse. There's a node that does this too; can't remember the name)

    Deal with opponents on nodes like Do You Bleed, Bloody Mess, or Bleed/Poison vulnerability.

    Also, fairly importantly:
    You can only play with champions you've got.
    So, if you've got Apocalypse and you don't have Onslaught, Apocalypse will have the huge advantage of being a champion you actually possess...

    Having said all that, I agree that starting with a little more oomph in BGs would be a good thing.
    I'd say +1 Genetic code starting on BGs Attack, and possibly an additional +1 as a bonus in his Sig ability.
    Unfortunately, all of my existing Apocs can do the one thing that’s most notable out of this list.
  • PolygonPolygon Member Posts: 5,571 ★★★★★
    I really wish theyd look into this , apoc is the only champ in this pool that didn't get the treatment ibom did (the rest are all stellar as is)

    But we got no Scorpion, we got no Hulkling.

    The saving grace which would complete this event is the +2 or +3 charges in BGs

    This way for someone who does not have as many units they won't be let down by orange if they only open one Crystal
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 3,231 ★★★★★
    Polygon said:

    I really wish theyd look into this , apoc is the only champ in this pool that didn't get the treatment ibom did (the rest are all stellar as is)

    But we got no Scorpion, we got no Hulkling.

    The saving grace which would complete this event is the +2 or +3 charges in BGs

    This way for someone who does not have as many units they won't be let down by orange if they only open one Crystal

    So he's not the only champ that didn't get that treatment because only 1 of the 5 did get it lmao
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 3,231 ★★★★★

    Not every champ has to be a Bg threat imo, he’s made for Aw, Aq and long form content and he performs well there. If all ramp up champs started bg fights with max charges it won’t be fair lol don’t make it a trend

    Why not though
    He’s otherwise useless in a major game mode. Most of our rank ups are for BG - they’re bringing a champ that was gate kept for too long and giving him new life - if he’s not good for BG he’s gonna stay at r1.

    What does apoc do that onslaught doesn’t?
    Make others into Horsemen?

    Shut down Evade? (This is way more useful and reliable than people think... Although, I grant your, Onslaught shutting down Miss is equally valuable, possibly more so)

    Be immune to Disorient?

    Shut down Purify effects that could be turned against you? (Champs like Captain Britain and Dust, who can't Purify the debuffs they've placed on Apocalypse. There's a node that does this too; can't remember the name)

    Deal with opponents on nodes like Do You Bleed, Bloody Mess, or Bleed/Poison vulnerability.

    Also, fairly importantly:
    You can only play with champions you've got.
    So, if you've got Apocalypse and you don't have Onslaught, Apocalypse will have the huge advantage of being a champion you actually possess...

    Having said all that, I agree that starting with a little more oomph in BGs would be a good thing.
    I'd say +1 Genetic code starting on BGs Attack, and possibly an additional +1 as a bonus in his Sig ability.
    So having an evade counter that requires risking 10 evades, a purify counter that exists to not completely shut down his loop and a weak bleed that let's him work on a couple nodes?
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 13,448 ★★★★★

    Not every champ has to be a Bg threat imo, he’s made for Aw, Aq and long form content and he performs well there. If all ramp up champs started bg fights with max charges it won’t be fair lol don’t make it a trend

    Why not though
    He’s otherwise useless in a major game mode. Most of our rank ups are for BG - they’re bringing a champ that was gate kept for too long and giving him new life - if he’s not good for BG he’s gonna stay at r1.

    What does apoc do that onslaught doesn’t?
    Make others into Horsemen?

    Shut down Evade? (This is way more useful and reliable than people think... Although, I grant your, Onslaught shutting down Miss is equally valuable, possibly more so)

    Be immune to Disorient?

    Shut down Purify effects that could be turned against you? (Champs like Captain Britain and Dust, who can't Purify the debuffs they've placed on Apocalypse. There's a node that does this too; can't remember the name)

    Deal with opponents on nodes like Do You Bleed, Bloody Mess, or Bleed/Poison vulnerability.

    Also, fairly importantly:
    You can only play with champions you've got.
    So, if you've got Apocalypse and you don't have Onslaught, Apocalypse will have the huge advantage of being a champion you actually possess...

    Having said all that, I agree that starting with a little more oomph in BGs would be a good thing.
    I'd say +1 Genetic code starting on BGs Attack, and possibly an additional +1 as a bonus in his Sig ability.
    So having an evade counter that requires risking 10 evades, a purify counter that exists to not completely shut down his loop and a weak bleed that let's him work on a couple nodes?
    I don't understand your logic.

    You consider apoc as mid/overrated (which is totally fine it's your opinion and lot other feels like that) but you are against the small tweak that make apoc very viable and useful in competitive game modes? Pick one side lol.
  • TyEdgeTyEdge Member Posts: 3,276 ★★★★★
    A tweak to your tweak. He should treat all champs as mutants when using specials, ie double debuffs. He shouldn’t get the prowess boost or the stun through block or the stun immune when attacking.
  • Txthree1710Txthree1710 Member Posts: 33
    I have a r3 Sig 180 sinister. It will be fun to pair him with Apoc on AQ and incursions. Other than that, I don't see using Apoc elsewhere. AW is becoming raids, Valiant eq is a mini crucible, and in BG he's meh. If the seasonal SOP will return, there's also no ramping up there because it's just 1 fight. If they can change his starting charges against mutants to all classes except tech, that will be enough.
  • MagrailothosMagrailothos Member Posts: 6,408 ★★★★★

    Not every champ has to be a Bg threat imo, he’s made for Aw, Aq and long form content and he performs well there. If all ramp up champs started bg fights with max charges it won’t be fair lol don’t make it a trend

    Why not though
    He’s otherwise useless in a major game mode. Most of our rank ups are for BG - they’re bringing a champ that was gate kept for too long and giving him new life - if he’s not good for BG he’s gonna stay at r1.

    What does apoc do that onslaught doesn’t?
    Make others into Horsemen?

    Shut down Evade? (This is way more useful and reliable than people think... Although, I grant your, Onslaught shutting down Miss is equally valuable, possibly more so)

    Be immune to Disorient?

    Shut down Purify effects that could be turned against you? (Champs like Captain Britain and Dust, who can't Purify the debuffs they've placed on Apocalypse. There's a node that does this too; can't remember the name)

    Deal with opponents on nodes like Do You Bleed, Bloody Mess, or Bleed/Poison vulnerability.

    Also, fairly importantly:
    You can only play with champions you've got.
    So, if you've got Apocalypse and you don't have Onslaught, Apocalypse will have the huge advantage of being a champion you actually possess...

    Having said all that, I agree that starting with a little more oomph in BGs would be a good thing.
    I'd say +1 Genetic code starting on BGs Attack, and possibly an additional +1 as a bonus in his Sig ability.
    So having an evade counter that requires risking 10 evades, a purify counter that exists to not completely shut down his loop and a weak bleed that let's him work on a couple nodes?
    He's got plenty of abilities.

    If you lack the imagination to recognise what you can achieve with them, that doesn't stop them being useful for those of us that can.
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 13,448 ★★★★★
    Just make apoc get 4 charges on

    Not every champ has to be a Bg threat imo, he’s made for Aw, Aq and long form content and he performs well there. If all ramp up champs started bg fights with max charges it won’t be fair lol don’t make it a trend

    Why not though
    He’s otherwise useless in a major game mode. Most of our rank ups are for BG - they’re bringing a champ that was gate kept for too long and giving him new life - if he’s not good for BG he’s gonna stay at r1.

    What does apoc do that onslaught doesn’t?
    Make others into Horsemen?

    Shut down Evade? (This is way more useful and reliable than people think... Although, I grant your, Onslaught shutting down Miss is equally valuable, possibly more so)

    Be immune to Disorient?

    Shut down Purify effects that could be turned against you? (Champs like Captain Britain and Dust, who can't Purify the debuffs they've placed on Apocalypse. There's a node that does this too; can't remember the name)

    Deal with opponents on nodes like Do You Bleed, Bloody Mess, or Bleed/Poison vulnerability.

    Also, fairly importantly:
    You can only play with champions you've got.
    So, if you've got Apocalypse and you don't have Onslaught, Apocalypse will have the huge advantage of being a champion you actually possess...

    Having said all that, I agree that starting with a little more oomph in BGs would be a good thing.
    I'd say +1 Genetic code starting on BGs Attack, and possibly an additional +1 as a bonus in his Sig ability.
    So having an evade counter that requires risking 10 evades, a purify counter that exists to not completely shut down his loop and a weak bleed that let's him work on a couple nodes?
    He's got plenty of abilities.

    If you lack the imagination to recognise what you can achieve with them, that doesn't stop them being useful for those of us that can.
    Disorient immunity is one of a kind people don't realise how useful it is.
  • Qwerty12345Qwerty12345 Member Posts: 888 ★★★★
    Making it so that BG defenders count as bosses for any abilities that apply for quest bosses would be a fair concept / help a few champions (including APPOC and the champion)
  • startropicsstartropics Member Posts: 1,503 ★★★★★
    he's good for long form content but pretty disappointing in BGs. i don't think an extra 2 charges for BGs attack would make him that great.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJtuL_v4ofo
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 3,231 ★★★★★

    Not every champ has to be a Bg threat imo, he’s made for Aw, Aq and long form content and he performs well there. If all ramp up champs started bg fights with max charges it won’t be fair lol don’t make it a trend

    Why not though
    He’s otherwise useless in a major game mode. Most of our rank ups are for BG - they’re bringing a champ that was gate kept for too long and giving him new life - if he’s not good for BG he’s gonna stay at r1.

    What does apoc do that onslaught doesn’t?
    Make others into Horsemen?

    Shut down Evade? (This is way more useful and reliable than people think... Although, I grant your, Onslaught shutting down Miss is equally valuable, possibly more so)

    Be immune to Disorient?

    Shut down Purify effects that could be turned against you? (Champs like Captain Britain and Dust, who can't Purify the debuffs they've placed on Apocalypse. There's a node that does this too; can't remember the name)

    Deal with opponents on nodes like Do You Bleed, Bloody Mess, or Bleed/Poison vulnerability.

    Also, fairly importantly:
    You can only play with champions you've got.
    So, if you've got Apocalypse and you don't have Onslaught, Apocalypse will have the huge advantage of being a champion you actually possess...

    Having said all that, I agree that starting with a little more oomph in BGs would be a good thing.
    I'd say +1 Genetic code starting on BGs Attack, and possibly an additional +1 as a bonus in his Sig ability.
    So having an evade counter that requires risking 10 evades, a purify counter that exists to not completely shut down his loop and a weak bleed that let's him work on a couple nodes?
    I don't understand your logic.

    You consider apoc as mid/overrated (which is totally fine it's your opinion and lot other feels like that) but you are against the small tweak that make apoc very viable and useful in competitive game modes? Pick one side lol.
    They aren't mutually exclusive though. Me thinking thay apocalypse' base kit is good but generally not the greatest is a separate point to me saying that him at full ramp in bgs is a bit too much of an over correction
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 3,231 ★★★★★

    he's good for long form content but pretty disappointing in BGs. i don't think an extra 2 charges for BGs attack would make him that great.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJtuL_v4ofo

    On defense though
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