He is literally saying you guys are dumb and stupid
So accept that and move on
I haven't even said that about you, yet. If people want to know why the cost exists, that's a question I can answer, because I actually know the answer. This is a thing I am not simply guessing about. This is a subject that I've discussed with multiple developers of multiple games, including this one.
However, it isn't my place to tell people what to want, or what to ask for. This subject keeps coming up, even within the CCP discussions. A lot of people want these costs to go away. The answer keeps coming up no. Maybe one day the answer will be yes, but I believe the odds of that happening under the current circumstances is too vanishingly small to be worth my own time. However, everyone else is free to spend their time however they choose. If you don't care why the costs are there and just want to keep asking for them to be removed in the hope that one day you get lucky, well, that's one way to approach things.
I'm not telling anyone to stop asking. However, if someone wants to debate why the costs are even there in the first place, that's an objective question with an objective answer that I happen to know with some certainty. How anyone chooses to use that information is up to them. Knowing *why* costs exist doesn't mean they can't change. Knowing why they exist objectively rather than just wishful thinking is how I got Alliance war revive costs to go away. Something which, incidentally, were I to try today I would almost certainly fail, for those aforementioned meta reasons I won't discuss (that have nothing to do directly with how much anyone was spending on them, by the way).
It’s clear why they exist; I acknowledged a possible reason in my post. My concern is that their current structure, though more convenient than the original, is still very counter-intuitive to the general idea of QOL.
I’m quite particular about this issue because of the arena grinding scenario. This system makes switching to recoils cut down your arena earnings by over 30% if you’d like to play other relevant content without sabotaging your performance. That’s ridiculous.
Now my recoil loadout is going to rot while I spend 70% more time in arena because I want to play AW simultaneously. Does Kabam really need to tax this when their income is already way beyond healthy from other sources?
Let me preface by saying (in addition to my pro change posts above) that I agree the current system is not good and I also want change.. but to be completely honest changing every time you go into or out of the arena may be a bit excessive for load out swapping
What I mean by that is.. it's all a choice made by the player as to how often they "need" to swap and we will each decide this for ourselves (and spend our rss accordingly) based on how important it is to us
But at the risk of this turning into a "pro Recoil" "anti Recoil" discussion (which is slightly off topic).. I personally believe that Recoil is the preferred mastery across multiple game modes (this is a personal opinion) so for me, this particular issues I do not share.. specifically
Game modes that are better with Recoils on (again, this is my opinion and I *know* others will not agree):
- Arena (the one we all agree on) - AQ (absolutely.. it's a QOL thing just like Arena) - AW.. yup! Here's why.. ending health does not matter in this game mode, you want to kill the defender asap and get out of the fight before it goes sideways - Solo questing (short/medium form).. modern quest design only has 6 fights in it
The modes you do not want it on for (usually): - BGs - Solo (long form)
All is to say.. there are different views about how often one "needs" to swap out
Edit: there is a small handful of champs who should not run Recoil in AW (but the list is way shorter than you think) Nefaria, Spiral, IH.. that's all I got off the top of my head though
Valiant EQ is another of those you do not want to run recoils in, since health carries over fights. And AW depends on what champs you use and paths you do. Path 4 with recoils would be ill advised.
He is literally saying you guys are dumb and stupid
So accept that and move on
I haven't even said that about you, yet. If people want to know why the cost exists, that's a question I can answer, because I actually know the answer. This is a thing I am not simply guessing about. This is a subject that I've discussed with multiple developers of multiple games, including this one.
However, it isn't my place to tell people what to want, or what to ask for. This subject keeps coming up, even within the CCP discussions. A lot of people want these costs to go away. The answer keeps coming up no. Maybe one day the answer will be yes, but I believe the odds of that happening under the current circumstances is too vanishingly small to be worth my own time. However, everyone else is free to spend their time however they choose. If you don't care why the costs are there and just want to keep asking for them to be removed in the hope that one day you get lucky, well, that's one way to approach things.
I'm not telling anyone to stop asking. However, if someone wants to debate why the costs are even there in the first place, that's an objective question with an objective answer that I happen to know with some certainty. How anyone chooses to use that information is up to them. Knowing *why* costs exist doesn't mean they can't change. Knowing why they exist objectively rather than just wishful thinking is how I got Alliance war revive costs to go away. Something which, incidentally, were I to try today I would almost certainly fail, for those aforementioned meta reasons I won't discuss (that have nothing to do directly with how much anyone was spending on them, by the way).
It’s clear why they exist; I acknowledged a possible reason in my post. My concern is that their current structure, though more convenient than the original, is still very counter-intuitive to the general idea of QOL.
I’m quite particular about this issue because of the arena grinding scenario. This system makes switching to recoils cut down your arena earnings by over 30% if you’d like to play other relevant content without sabotaging your performance. That’s ridiculous.
Now my recoil loadout is going to rot while I spend 70% more time in arena because I want to play AW simultaneously. Does Kabam really need to tax this when their income is already way beyond healthy from other sources?
Let me preface by saying (in addition to my pro change posts above) that I agree the current system is not good and I also want change.. but to be completely honest changing every time you go into or out of the arena may be a bit excessive for load out swapping
What I mean by that is.. it's all a choice made by the player as to how often they "need" to swap and we will each decide this for ourselves (and spend our rss accordingly) based on how important it is to us
But at the risk of this turning into a "pro Recoil" "anti Recoil" discussion (which is slightly off topic).. I personally believe that Recoil is the preferred mastery across multiple game modes (this is a personal opinion) so for me, this particular issues I do not share.. specifically
Game modes that are better with Recoils on (again, this is my opinion and I *know* others will not agree):
- Arena (the one we all agree on) - AQ (absolutely.. it's a QOL thing just like Arena) - AW.. yup! Here's why.. ending health does not matter in this game mode, you want to kill the defender asap and get out of the fight before it goes sideways - Solo questing (short/medium form).. modern quest design only has 6 fights in it
The modes you do not want it on for (usually): - BGs - Solo (long form)
All is to say.. there are different views about how often one "needs" to swap out
Edit: there is a small handful of champs who should not run Recoil in AW (but the list is way shorter than you think) Nefaria, Spiral, IH.. that's all I got off the top of my head though
I’ll try out your pro-recoil strat and see how it works out. The extra arena time is a huge turn off for anti-recoil gaming
In other FTP games, masteries are free to change and each champion can get their own unique masteries setup
But not in mcoc
There are days when I wonder if this is the day I've finally slipped into an alternate reality where the Golden Gate Bridge is blue and all of my gaming history happened in another dimension. This would be one of those days.
Every MMO I ever played had respec costs. And that's not a coincidence: respec costs are there as a compromise, because in fact the idea is to not allow respec at all. Respec is a necessary trade off to allow for unintended shifts in the game meta (the actual meta, not the thing we call the meta around here). This is a general rule of thumb for most RPG-like games, which MCOC essentially is.
I guess whatever dimension I'm from, the devs happened to follow me here. Fortunate for me I guess; the game only makes sense to multiversal refugees.
This is a bit of a nothing burger response to be honest, no one said respeccing should be free. people said changing loadouts should be free. there are multiple loadouts for a reason. You aren't "respeccing", you are using a loadout. But loadout switch is not free and that's the issue.
To use your own words, that’s a nothing burger argument. A “loadout” is just a convenience. It does nothing until it is active. It has the same game design significance as a piece of paper I scribble a mastery plan onto. What matters is your active masteries, where you have to make decisions that actually affect your gameplay. Choosing one mastery has the opportunity cost of not being able to choose another. Getting certain benefits means you can’t get others. And some masteries have downsides you can’t trivially escape because you even have them. Swapping loadouts provides a way to have more mastery benefits than the number of points available would ordinarily allow, and provide a way to escape the downsides of certain mastery choices arbitrarily. It is those choices that are why we don’t get enough mastery points to simply choose them all and just arbitrarily turn them off and on whenever we want.
Loadout slot costs are not intended to cover the costs of possessing a whole new set of mastery choices, to use at will. It’s intended to simply be the cost of having the convenience of redoing masteries without having to manually redo them. But that cost does not intend to make the actual act of using those mastery configurations.
I can see this thread is less about advocacy, and more about commiseration. Game design is something I have experience with. Psychotherapy is something I do not, so I am unqualified to continue here. So I will take my leave of this particular line of discussion.
Psychotherapy is crazy, kabam really putting great people on this guardians list who can't argue without talking down on people.
He is literally saying you guys are dumb and stupid
So accept that and move on
I haven't even said that about you, yet. If people want to know why the cost exists, that's a question I can answer, because I actually know the answer. This is a thing I am not simply guessing about. This is a subject that I've discussed with multiple developers of multiple games, including this one.
However, it isn't my place to tell people what to want, or what to ask for. This subject keeps coming up, even within the CCP discussions. A lot of people want these costs to go away. The answer keeps coming up no. Maybe one day the answer will be yes, but I believe the odds of that happening under the current circumstances is too vanishingly small to be worth my own time. However, everyone else is free to spend their time however they choose. If you don't care why the costs are there and just want to keep asking for them to be removed in the hope that one day you get lucky, well, that's one way to approach things.
I'm not telling anyone to stop asking. However, if someone wants to debate why the costs are even there in the first place, that's an objective question with an objective answer that I happen to know with some certainty. How anyone chooses to use that information is up to them. Knowing *why* costs exist doesn't mean they can't change. Knowing why they exist objectively rather than just wishful thinking is how I got Alliance war revive costs to go away. Something which, incidentally, were I to try today I would almost certainly fail, for those aforementioned meta reasons I won't discuss (that have nothing to do directly with how much anyone was spending on them, by the way).
It’s clear why they exist; I acknowledged a possible reason in my post. My concern is that their current structure, though more convenient than the original, is still very counter-intuitive to the general idea of QOL.
I’m quite particular about this issue because of the arena grinding scenario. This system makes switching to recoils cut down your arena earnings by over 30% if you’d like to play other relevant content without sabotaging your performance. That’s ridiculous.
Now my recoil loadout is going to rot while I spend 70% more time in arena because I want to play AW simultaneously. Does Kabam really need to tax this when their income is already way beyond healthy from other sources?
Let me preface by saying (in addition to my pro change posts above) that I agree the current system is not good and I also want change.. but to be completely honest changing every time you go into or out of the arena may be a bit excessive for load out swapping
What I mean by that is.. it's all a choice made by the player as to how often they "need" to swap and we will each decide this for ourselves (and spend our rss accordingly) based on how important it is to us
But at the risk of this turning into a "pro Recoil" "anti Recoil" discussion (which is slightly off topic).. I personally believe that Recoil is the preferred mastery across multiple game modes (this is a personal opinion) so for me, this particular issues I do not share.. specifically
Game modes that are better with Recoils on (again, this is my opinion and I *know* others will not agree):
- Arena (the one we all agree on) - AQ (absolutely.. it's a QOL thing just like Arena) - AW.. yup! Here's why.. ending health does not matter in this game mode, you want to kill the defender asap and get out of the fight before it goes sideways - Solo questing (short/medium form).. modern quest design only has 6 fights in it
The modes you do not want it on for (usually): - BGs - Solo (long form)
All is to say.. there are different views about how often one "needs" to swap out
Edit: there is a small handful of champs who should not run Recoil in AW (but the list is way shorter than you think) Nefaria, Spiral, IH.. that's all I got off the top of my head though
Valiant EQ is another of those you do not want to run recoils in, since health carries over fights. And AW depends on what champs you use and paths you do. Path 4 with recoils would be ill advised.
Yeah, tbh I just run it with Recoil active.. I don't really strive for an Itemless run (I usually have revive once or twice before it's over), but it's a trade I make for the fact that I'm completing it approximately 60-90% faster - it's a personal choice but I value my time more that the couple revives
As for AW.. you're right, I mentioned some specific attackers (Nefaria, Spiral.. there's a small handful) but I forgot to mention path 4.. you're absolutely right
He is literally saying you guys are dumb and stupid
So accept that and move on
I haven't even said that about you, yet. If people want to know why the cost exists, that's a question I can answer, because I actually know the answer. This is a thing I am not simply guessing about. This is a subject that I've discussed with multiple developers of multiple games, including this one.
However, it isn't my place to tell people what to want, or what to ask for. This subject keeps coming up, even within the CCP discussions. A lot of people want these costs to go away. The answer keeps coming up no. Maybe one day the answer will be yes, but I believe the odds of that happening under the current circumstances is too vanishingly small to be worth my own time. However, everyone else is free to spend their time however they choose. If you don't care why the costs are there and just want to keep asking for them to be removed in the hope that one day you get lucky, well, that's one way to approach things.
I'm not telling anyone to stop asking. However, if someone wants to debate why the costs are even there in the first place, that's an objective question with an objective answer that I happen to know with some certainty. How anyone chooses to use that information is up to them. Knowing *why* costs exist doesn't mean they can't change. Knowing why they exist objectively rather than just wishful thinking is how I got Alliance war revive costs to go away. Something which, incidentally, were I to try today I would almost certainly fail, for those aforementioned meta reasons I won't discuss (that have nothing to do directly with how much anyone was spending on them, by the way).
It’s clear why they exist; I acknowledged a possible reason in my post. My concern is that their current structure, though more convenient than the original, is still very counter-intuitive to the general idea of QOL.
I’m quite particular about this issue because of the arena grinding scenario. This system makes switching to recoils cut down your arena earnings by over 30% if you’d like to play other relevant content without sabotaging your performance. That’s ridiculous.
Now my recoil loadout is going to rot while I spend 70% more time in arena because I want to play AW simultaneously. Does Kabam really need to tax this when their income is already way beyond healthy from other sources?
Let me preface by saying (in addition to my pro change posts above) that I agree the current system is not good and I also want change.. but to be completely honest changing every time you go into or out of the arena may be a bit excessive for load out swapping
What I mean by that is.. it's all a choice made by the player as to how often they "need" to swap and we will each decide this for ourselves (and spend our rss accordingly) based on how important it is to us
But at the risk of this turning into a "pro Recoil" "anti Recoil" discussion (which is slightly off topic).. I personally believe that Recoil is the preferred mastery across multiple game modes (this is a personal opinion) so for me, this particular issues I do not share.. specifically
Game modes that are better with Recoils on (again, this is my opinion and I *know* others will not agree):
- Arena (the one we all agree on) - AQ (absolutely.. it's a QOL thing just like Arena) - AW.. yup! Here's why.. ending health does not matter in this game mode, you want to kill the defender asap and get out of the fight before it goes sideways - Solo questing (short/medium form).. modern quest design only has 6 fights in it
The modes you do not want it on for (usually): - BGs - Solo (long form)
All is to say.. there are different views about how often one "needs" to swap out
Edit: there is a small handful of champs who should not run Recoil in AW (but the list is way shorter than you think) Nefaria, Spiral, IH.. that's all I got off the top of my head though
I’ll try out your pro-recoil strat and see how it works out. The extra arena time is a huge turn off for anti-recoil gaming
Nice, definitely recommend trying it.. yeah after playing with Recoils active for 6-7 years now, I've definitely come to this conclusion a long time ago.. that many of the concerns "anti-recoil" players have just don't actually matter in many game modes.. now, the way you build your roster will also influence opinions on this I'd be lying if I didn't say I gravitate towards more Recoil friendly champs because I really just value the QOL moving 60-90% faster provides.. and I'm a big AW guy, it's my favorite game mode - so when I say that in 90% of scenarios Recoil is actually a *safer* build for AW its based on 6-7 years experience doing it
Last thing I turned it off for was Epoch.. beyond that, I haven't turned them off since
Comments
As for AW.. you're right, I mentioned some specific attackers (Nefaria, Spiral.. there's a small handful) but I forgot to mention path 4.. you're absolutely right
I'd be lying if I didn't say I gravitate towards more Recoil friendly champs because I really just value the QOL moving 60-90% faster provides.. and I'm a big AW guy, it's my favorite game mode - so when I say that in 90% of scenarios Recoil is actually a *safer* build for AW its based on 6-7 years experience doing it
Last thing I turned it off for was Epoch.. beyond that, I haven't turned them off since
I constantly switch suicides on and off depending on whether I am grinding arena or doing questing.