Better Defender? Bullseye vs Yelena

Polygon

Who's the better BGs Defender? And who benefits more from the r4?

Although shes newer, if you have 1 of the counters the fight is pretty safe and not like a Serpent matchup that you can lose on time even with a counter.

However if you don't have a counter, its a guaranteed loss which is why i was debating if rank 3 would be enough for her.

On the other hand the rank 4 for Bullseye can benefit more (even if shes the better defender) due to the extra health /attack.

Also the BGs nodes have been favoring him to not allow all his counters to completely flush him (since some say he has a ton of counters nowadays)

ItsClobberinTime

Yelena, bullseye has too many counters now

I feel like a lot of the counters aren't as prominent like Gentle is kinda mid for most matches, Dazzler needs high sig , negasonic is slow, sinister is slow.

Plus the BGs nodes usually cut his counters even more

But all of them have one thing in common, it's an easy fight with full health bar. Time is pretty much irrelevant these days unless you play in Mysterium and above where everyone does every fight with full health 90% of the time and it really does come down to speed. I usually place in Quantum and I still use NTW Sinister and Gentle against him pretty much all the time and still win here and there.

Also, those aren't the only Bullseye counters, there are other options you can use like Onslaught Bastion Cyclops Okoye Odin HM and Nova who can also do it although they do take a little bit more block damage than the first ones you mentioned and they're also a bit harder to use. Whole point tho is Bullseye has a lot of counters these days, Yelena not so much, the only reliable ones are DPX Jean Onslaught Gentle Cassandra and Sinister that's it.

Yeah i definitely agree with everything youre saying, but one thing ive noticed is the metas can cut the number of counters/options in half . For example power gain screws up some of them like sparky or dazzler

Power gain also automatically makes Yelena worse than Bullseye tho, and while it doesn't fully cut the options in half, the more sp1s she throws the more likely you are to screw up and the longer it takes to take her out cause her sp1 is already very long and gets you cornered very fast if she's spamming it back to back. Not to mention, any meta with stun immunity or purify makes her way worse than Bullseye, I'm not denying Bullseye still has some power but Yelena is way more restrictive.

This is straight up wrong, Bullseye is a lot worse with power gain than Yelena. Nobody in mysterium+ you speak of struggle with dexing Yelena's specials, especially her sp1 meanwhile even the most experienced players can't consistently dex Bullseye sp1 and often times they'd just block it instead of trying to dex which results in quite a bit of damage unless you counter crit damage and bleed.

Also despite having more counters Bullseye is harder to have a clean fight against most of the time. Jean, Onslaught, DPX, Sinister are just some examples against Yelena where you literally can't mess up and your favorite celestial streamer will always finish with %90-100. Bullseye on the other hand has Sinister, Kushala and maybe some of the new champions idk much about like Gentle and Jean. Dazzler, Cyclops, NTW, Onslaught etc. are all a lot more likely to mess up in most metas and its never as free with them. Not to mention the fact that Bullseye is 10 times more punishing than Yelena.

Overall Bullseye is a lot trickier even against his counters whereas Yelena gets shut down completely with little room for mistakes a lot more often.

No it's not and most people here agree if you look at the votes. If you're in Mysterium you're actually using champs that counter evade so you don't have to dex the sp1 in the first place, OR you just have someone who can take ten sp1s into block with zero issues like Sinister. The same can't be said about Yelena, you can't just block her specials you absolutely have to dex them no matter who you're using, and if for whatever reason she gets pushed to sp2 or the fight gets dragged out too long and she gets to 100 combo you're straight up dead.

Hmmm and? Sinister, Gentle, Negasonic, Okoye and Bastion are all guaranteed 90%-100% regardless of power gain what's your point? That's a dumb argument.
He is more punishing I won't deny that, but the counters I just mentioned work for most metas including power gain ones.

Also, like I said up there in Mysterium everyone finishes full hp and it really comes down to time, a max sig Yelena stalls way harder than a max sig Bullseye especially since at max sig the only counters for Yelena who can do her quick enough are DPX Onslaught and Jean, Gentle goes out the window cause of crit damage rating. Maybe this will change when Cassandra is in the Titan but right now, Yelena is worse just because she has fewer reliable counters than Bullseye.

Did you think before typing? How do you avoid Bullseye sp1 with an evade counter? You bait heavies if you must to push him to sp2 right? Thoughts on the block damage in that case? Nobody in celestial is afraid of baiting a sp1 from Yelena, why are you? And if I'm not mistaken most high tier players can comfortably dex Yelena sp2 rather consistently as well.

I'm not sure what comes up in your mind when we're speaking of a power gain meta but not every power gain meta is power snack or masochism, did you forget about rich get richer for example? None of those champions you mentioned other than maybe Sinister and Gentle will finish with over 90% in such meta with constant power gain. Maybe not the smartest counter-argument you could've come up with, don't you think?

Yelena is a better stall, I have no argument against that. But as quick as a fight against Bullseye is, he's often a lot more likely to mess you up. And no, as much as you like to exaggerate not everyone above mysterium constantly finishes with full hp and time is not always the only deciding factor. Not sure why you look up to those people like gods who can't make mistakes when that's just not how it works. Also not sure why you care so much about votes on a forum either, do you base the validity of your opinions on the majority all the time? But you don't ever take a step back when you get bombarded with disagrees do you? Don't act delusional just cause it fits your narrative, nobody is forced to "win" an argument here. We're just discussing under a post asking for opinions, its not a crime to be wrong or a success to be right.

I absolutely did but you obviously didn't, if you have an evade counter why are you baiting sp1s in the first place you donut? Push him to sp2 and bait that instead since it's easy to dex. Worried about the block damage? You're blowing that one out of proportion too how do you think people kill him with 80%-90% hp left using Okoye? They magically switch to mods?

Like the person above pointed out, it's not about the sp1 it's about how tanky she is without one of the very few counters that currently can nuke her, the specials are just a plus.

Rich get richer? Got it, so Okoye food? Furthermore, you're using lack of buffs as an argument here, I wasn't aware Onslaught Jean and DPX had buffs which would make this situation any different against Yelena and therefore easier than Bullseye. I can tell you one thing tho, Yelena will stall harder than Bullseye would even with rich get richer.

I'm not sure why you're so angry and getting all personal but I haven't been bombarded with any disagrees here, sure every once in a while I do but my agree to disagree ratio is normal most of the time because I don't make moronic comments all the time like the ones you made just now when you decided you wanted to insult a random person on the internet. What I can tell you tho is it's absolutely pathetic talking about disagrees when you've barely been here for three days and your disagrees are already five times the amount of agrees you have lmfao



You're doing a pretty good job at taking Ls buddy keep up the good work! Maybe make your profile private next time if you're trying to pull the disagree card?

Haha I'm gonna enjoy responding to every bit of nonsense you just commented about.

1)Defenders don't magically go from sp1 to sp2, you need to keep hitting them while not letting them throw sp1. You can't do that without heavy baiting to hit them and push them to 2 bars. That was what I said. Simple, isn't it?

2)We're not talking about who is tankier, who stalls more etc. I stated that Yelena is a better stall while Bullseye is more punishing and harder to fight. Discussion is about who is a better defender, try to see the bigger picture before barking "more tanky more good hehe". Got it?

3) Did you take a break during the rich get richer meta? Did you forget that some other node granted buffs so that the node was a threat for everyone? Bgs metas have more than a single node, haven't you noticed? God, the fact that I have to explain this is just so ridiculous.

4)Why are you dodging my point? You literally used the example of "majority thinks otherwise" against me when you're the one who never backs off even when you got 17 disagrees and 1 agree. If you cared so much about what majority thinks then you'd shut up in those cases but no, your self-awareness is non-existent so you can't see the irony.

5)I didn't talk about disagrees in the way you wanted to understand it, I just mentioned them to criticise your argument of "majority good". I literally criticised that in the lines of "disagrees and community sentiment is worthless". Why are you using agree to disagree ratio to attack me when that's like the one thing I was against this whole time? What's your obsession with seeking validation from the forums, surely you can't be so miserable? You claim that forums doesn't agree with me as an argument but you don't care at all when they don't agree with you, does that actually make sense to you?

Surely I will switch my profile to private just so my poor reaction stats don't show up. Haha don't worry bro, I don't care about random numbers on a mobile game forum as much as you do. You can stand proud though, good for you! What an achievement, go write it down on your empty CV!

I ain't reading all that I'm happy for you tho, or sorry that happened.