Champion Spotlight - Sentry [Updated: Added 5-Star Stats]

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Comments

  • 35six735six7 Posts: 31
    7zrom6crnlbi.png
    Seriously? Sentry?? The cheapest mechanic in the MCOC. I think it’s time to quit this game.
  • ThalionThalion Posts: 65
    Apache wrote: »
    35six7 wrote: »
    7zrom6crnlbi.png
    Seriously? Sentry?? The cheapest mechanic in the MCOC. I think it’s time to quit this game.

    @Kabam Miike

    do they really not see anything wrong with this

    Dude, 580 is more them enogh to destroy everything :lol:
  • 35six7 wrote: »
    7zrom6crnlbi.png
    Seriously? Sentry?? The cheapest mechanic in the MCOC. I think it’s time to quit this game.

    Luke Cage hits harder lol 580 actually pathetic

  • ApacheApache Posts: 558
    35six7 wrote: »
    7zrom6crnlbi.png
    Seriously? Sentry?? The cheapest mechanic in the MCOC. I think it’s time to quit this game.

    Luke Cage hits harder lol 580 actually pathetic

    Its like they capped his damage from going 500/600. I hardly see mine hit for more than that
  • TsunaniTsunani Posts: 173
    Empirical data from this tread shows that Sentry Effectively sucks
  • TsunaniTsunani Posts: 173
    They are deleting posts with hashtag about sentry
  • G0311G0311 Posts: 796 ★★★
    Lol
  • G0311G0311 Posts: 796 ★★★
    Hey sad little guy flaging all the post , why dont you show yourself, i mean you'll still be hiding behind the internet, but post something, and tell us how good flaging makes you feel lol
  • CuteshelfCuteshelf Posts: 747 ★★★
    Neroa65 wrote: »
    #buffsentry

    I take it you went for him before looking into what he actually did mate? They have already said they wont be changing him anytime soon, so pointless bumping really? Carnage would be first anyway (if at all) and he has been a few months already waiting

    Have a little faith my man. Carnage didn't get this much noise just so you know.

    Mate.... Been waiting an Age to use Carnage... and the uproar was huge when he was released rubbish... half the people in this thread are jumping on the bandwagon to get the ball rolling on fixes across the board.

    There’s a small light at the end of the tunnel, though, with the beta test for LC and Rulk.

    #fixcarnage
  • Logan00Logan00 Posts: 41
    To be honest I don't have high hopes for LC or Rulk, after they updated WS he was, and still, is ****, same for abomination. Hopefully the fix sentry, like this he is unplayable, heating the bench next to my Colossus, HB, etc...
  • CuteshelfCuteshelf Posts: 747 ★★★
    Logan00 wrote: »
    To be honest I don't have high hopes for LC or Rulk, after they updated WS he was, and still, is ****, same for abomination. Hopefully the fix sentry, like this he is unplayable, heating the bench next to my Colossus, HB, etc...

    Are you kidding me? Have you actually used WS? His damage is great, his power drain is, while random, very useful and procs often enough to be very helpful most of the time. He doesn’t rely 100% on buffs/debuffs and he’s pretty tanky.

    I admit he’s not god tier, but He’s a good option for most fights.
  • Neroa65Neroa65 Posts: 302 ★★
    edited January 2018
    Logan00 wrote: »
    To be honest I don't have high hopes for LC or Rulk, after they updated WS he was, and still, is ****, same for abomination. Hopefully the fix sentry, like this he is unplayable, heating the bench next to my Colossus, HB, etc...

    Winter Soldier always had above average damage output. All he got from said update was new cool animations. If cool animations are the deal, Sentry prolly has that 10/10.. Sadly no. It's the damage output, even if not the damage, his abilities. Their % chances are just not reliable.
  • DNA3000 wrote: »
    I’ve come to realize the hard reality that Kabam knows that Sentry sucks but they don’t care so nothing about him will change

    Kabam doesn't know that. Kabam looks like most MMO companies I've seen: their definition of performance is strictly datamining-based. Sentry will be considered underpowered or underperforming if they see underperformance in their overall game datamining. Sentry hasn't existed long enough for that data to exist.

    This is problematic for a lot of reasons, but it is also extremely commonplace.


    Let’s add another 10 pages of negative feedback, maybe they’ll get the hint.

    With all due respect, if I wanted to convince you that Sentry was fantastic, how many pages of posts would it take for me to convince you to change your opinion?

    You're not asking the devs to change their opinion of Sentry. You're asking them to change the design methodology of the game that the company has followed since inception and that probably emulates every other company every single one of those developers has ever worked for. How many pages of posts do you think it would take to accomplish that?

    Keep in mind, I'm not defending it. If I was running a game development house, I would do things very differently. But I am saying I've seen this many times before, and it is the reality of the situation. I've been in situations where I was in direct communication with the specific developer who actually designed the thing, and we both agree the thing is broken, and that was completely irrelevant. The game had moved on to other things and would only loop back to look a the thing when their own internal schedule and process allowed for it, and that was that.

    In other words, if you think that convincing the developer who designed Sentry that it is underperforming is sufficient to get him changed, you're wrong. That's actually the *least* important thing to do. What you need to do is convince a producer that Sentry is so totally broken that the game will be fundamentally harmed so badly if he doesn't divert internal development resources currently working on other things, totally disrupt his production timeline and probably break his deliverable goals for the quarter and the year, that it is worth doing all of that to revist Sentry before they even get any material datamining reports that would show this problem.

    If I had to guess, I would guess that when 12.0 happened, several producers were involved in all of the system and gameplay changes associated with that, and perhaps ironically none of them had the authority to do much about any of the protests surrounding 12.0 because of the large scale of 12.0. Those protests and disruptions, plus all the press coverage, probably escalated to senior management who were the only people with the authority to instruct the interlocking producers to stop what they were doing and work on addressing the large number of issues in 12.0. But this was a special case circumstance that would be very difficult to replicate without setting the building on fire.

    We often treat Kabam, and game companies in general, like they are a person you can interact with like a person. But Kabam is an organization of people, with different people having different ideas and priorities, different responsibilities and authority, and working in an environment that itself has its own set of rules and operational procedures. You can't convince "Kabam" of anything because Kabam doesn't think anything. Kabam employees can be convinced of things, but you have to realize few of them individually have any power to help you. A designer made Sentry, but he can't help you. He takes orders from a group manager and a producer. If he thinks Sentry needs a buff, he can't just buff him in his spare time. A producer has to order him or at least allow him to do that. And that producer has to get clearance from change control. He needs to justify his decision with hard data or very strong reasoning. He has to cost-justify that decision. He has to explain where he is going to get the time and resources to make that change among the internal development resources that are almost always working on something else. He has to convince other producers that his change is more important than their work He has to convince management that this change in process is worth it. There's an army of people involved, and for most of them "Sentry is underperforming" is completely irrelevant to them They have their own problems to work on.

    When you think of Kabam as a person, you think you just have to convince Kabam to make a change, and then Kabam decides to make that change. And that's a barrier most players don't realize is in their way.
  • LiquidButtLiquidButt Posts: 135
    Who's the doofus flagging all the posts?
  • Qulcks1lverQulcks1lver Posts: 66
    edited January 2018
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    I’ve come to realize the hard reality that Kabam knows that Sentry sucks but they don’t care so nothing about him will change

    Kabam doesn't know that. Kabam looks like most MMO companies I've seen: their definition of performance is strictly datamining-based. Sentry will be considered underpowered or underperforming if they see underperformance in their overall game datamining. Sentry hasn't existed long enough for that data to exist.

    This is problematic for a lot of reasons, but it is also extremely commonplace.


    Let’s add another 10 pages of negative feedback, maybe they’ll get the hint.

    With all due respect, if I wanted to convince you that Sentry was fantastic, how many pages of posts would it take for me to convince you to change your opinion?

    You're not asking the devs to change their opinion of Sentry. You're asking them to change the design methodology of the game that the company has followed since inception and that probably emulates every other company every single one of those developers has ever worked for. How many pages of posts do you think it would take to accomplish that?

    Keep in mind, I'm not defending it. If I was running a game development house, I would do things very differently. But I am saying I've seen this many times before, and it is the reality of the situation. I've been in situations where I was in direct communication with the specific developer who actually designed the thing, and we both agree the thing is broken, and that was completely irrelevant. The game had moved on to other things and would only loop back to look a the thing when their own internal schedule and process allowed for it, and that was that.

    In other words, if you think that convincing the developer who designed Sentry that it is underperforming is sufficient to get him changed, you're wrong. That's actually the *least* important thing to do. What you need to do is convince a producer that Sentry is so totally broken that the game will be fundamentally harmed so badly if he doesn't divert internal development resources currently working on other things, totally disrupt his production timeline and probably break his deliverable goals for the quarter and the year, that it is worth doing all of that to revist Sentry before they even get any material datamining reports that would show this problem.

    If I had to guess, I would guess that when 12.0 happened, several producers were involved in all of the system and gameplay changes associated with that, and perhaps ironically none of them had the authority to do much about any of the protests surrounding 12.0 because of the large scale of 12.0. Those protests and disruptions, plus all the press coverage, probably escalated to senior management who were the only people with the authority to instruct the interlocking producers to stop what they were doing and work on addressing the large number of issues in 12.0. But this was a special case circumstance that would be very difficult to replicate without setting the building on fire.

    We often treat Kabam, and game companies in general, like they are a person you can interact with like a person. But Kabam is an organization of people, with different people having different ideas and priorities, different responsibilities and authority, and working in an environment that itself has its own set of rules and operational procedures. You can't convince "Kabam" of anything because Kabam doesn't think anything. Kabam employees can be convinced of things, but you have to realize few of them individually have any power to help you. A designer made Sentry, but he can't help you. He takes orders from a group manager and a producer. If he thinks Sentry needs a buff, he can't just buff him in his spare time. A producer has to order him or at least allow him to do that. And that producer has to get clearance from change control. He needs to justify his decision with hard data or very strong reasoning. He has to cost-justify that decision. He has to explain where he is going to get the time and resources to make that change among the internal development resources that are almost always working on something else. He has to convince other producers that his change is more important than their work He has to convince management that this change in process is worth it. There's an army of people involved, and for most of them "Sentry is underperforming" is completely irrelevant to them They have their own problems to work on.

    When you think of Kabam as a person, you think you just have to convince Kabam to make a change, and then Kabam decides to make that change. And that's a barrier most players don't realize is in their way.

    Kabam has in the past buffed characters so they definitely listen to feedback. I mean look at the new beta program for red hulk and luke Cage, they are getting buffed, and also other characters as well. As I stated before it not just about the buff too, it’s also the fact the Kabam tries to defend sentry saying he is good for “long fights” and we are not using him effectively when it’s not the case. Sentry just does not bring anything that can be used in any content of the game he lacks damage and utility, his regen is laughable also. I’m pretty sure that sentry is underperforming in every way. Kabam checks every “characters” data to see how they are performing and I would imagine sentry is one of the lowest preforming character.

  • Kabam has in the past buffed characters so they definitely listen to feedback. I mean look at the new beta program for red hulk and luke Cage, they are getting buffed, and also other characters as well. As I stated before it not just about the buff too, it’s also the fact the Kabam tries to defend sentry saying he is good for “long fights” and we are not using him effectively when it’s not the case. Sentry just does not bring anything that can be used in any content of the game he lacks damage and utility, his regen is laughable also. I’m pretty sure that sentry is underperforming in every way. Kabam checks every “characters” data to see how they are performing and I would imagine sentry is one of the lowest preforming character.

    I don't think you read what I wrote. I didn't say Kabam didn't *listen* to feedback, but rather feedback doesn't cause or trigger nerfs. Generally, they listen to feedback to get a qualitative sense of what their quantitative data is telling them. Saying Red Hulk sucks means nothing to Kabam. But if Kabam sees Red Hulk underperforming in their data, then posts saying why you think he sucks starts to become meaningful to them.

    When I look at the beta program for Red Hulk and Luke Cage, I see Kabam thinking about buffing two champions near the bottom of what most players consider the lowest tier of champions. But they've been that way for a long time. Why buff them now? And I ask myself, how did they decide those two were the most deserving champions for a buff. And then I realize that they recently generated a bunch of datamining reports regarding champion performance, because they had to do so when they selected the first iteration of champions to go into the new featured 5* crystal. They explicitly looked for the worst champions by performance and eliminated them from contention to be added to the 5* featured rotation. So it makes total sense that Kabam synchronized these two development efforts. They basically created a list of the lowest performing champions, and they then handed that same list to two different development groups. They handed that list to the 5* featured design team and said "don't put those in there." And then they handed that list to a champion and ability balancing team and said "start here."

    My guess is that is not a coincidence. It "feels" like how datamining-driven development generally work. These performance reports are computationally expensive to generate, usually. They probably don't generate them often. They would want to use the data as efficiently as possible every time they did.

    If my theory is correct, then while it will take some time to prove it, there's a prediction it makes. It predicts that the longer a champion fails to show up in the new 5* featured crystal, the greater the probability that it will show up in a balancing beta test. Conversely if a champion shows up in the 5* featured curated set, it isn't currently up for rebalancing. My guess is that eventually essentially *every* champion that fails to ever show up will eventually be balance-revisited. That's how data driven development works.
  • DaMunkDaMunk Posts: 1,842 ★★★★
    DNA I understand the points you are making and I'm sure how that's how things normally work. You're making the "normal" argument. Most of us are making an argument for an exception. Exceptions are rare but they do happen. Sentry is so bad that he is broken. While it doesn't break the game we have a useless champ in game. Not a champ we don't want to use but a champ we really can't use. Any other champ in the game is better regardless of whether they were designed to be defensive or offensive. His only redeeming quality is his Prestige.
  • How about when you gain a state of mind you get to keep it for the duration of the fight. You only get a 30% chance to get it and it’s almost impossible to line it up with your special 1 or 2. So once you get that state of mind you get to keep it until the fight is over. You don’t loose it when you get another. And also his healing ability is a joke. It needs to be reworked. He has the strongest healing ability in marvel pretty much but in the game it’s worse then dr strange. And that’s bad.
  • MatinMatin Posts: 17
  • ESFESF Posts: 878 ★★★
    @DNA3000:

    Perhaps you could help me with something. Can you give what a sense of what "underperforming" means, in the setting you are describing?

    I ask because I honestly can't wrap my mind around it for this reason: My belief is that even with the limitations of a Luke Cage or Red Hulk, most/all skilled players can still use them, rarely lose with them in, say, Arena settings, or event quests, etc.

    I mean, I never lose with Luke Cage in a content-appropriate setting. Know what I mean? No, I don't take him into, say...RTTL. But there's a lot of characters I wouldn't take there, you know?

    Do you understand what I am asking? If someone looked at my usage patterns, for example, I don't use Luke Cage any less or more than, say...Phoenix, who is in the curated crystal. I rarely, if ever, lose with either of them. I don't think Phoenix, as an example, is any more useful than Luke Cage in a lot of content -- not all, but a lot.

    In my world, Luke Cage is a weaker character, but I don't understand the concept of "underperforming" because I never lose with him when I use him.

    Does that make sense?
  • G0311G0311 Posts: 796 ★★★
    Sentry is the definition of underperforming lol
This discussion has been closed.