AA after update fix nerf becomes usless for LOL runs

2

Comments

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    DaMunk wrote: »
    We have people debating whether it was a bug or intended but seems we are missing the bigger picture. With all available information this champ was working correctly. This was a sizable change to the champ, Nerf, without the ability for the players to make adjustments to their roster. If Kabam had only came out and said they needed to adjust him because he was breaking content, which they did say, then everyone would agreed this is a Nerf but they called it a fix which some people buy. Kabam also said in the past if they Nerf a champ they would give out rdts...but this is a fix... right? I'm fine with them making adjustments when needed and I'm fine if an employee makes a mistake. What I'm not real happy about is people made decisions based off their mistakes and they don't seem to want to make it right.

    I highly doubt they're changing their story, just to avoid handing out Tickets. That's not logical to me. It would be of no consequence for them to do so. They didn't change the way he integrally functions. They fixed a bug. Giving them out contradicts the whole purpose they serve as I see it, but I highly doubt they're trying to save some sort of face. If it was a change on a dime, they would have just given Champ-specific Tickets. However, all evidence points to the fact that it was a mistaken comment and a bug fix. They wouldn't have put it out there if it wasn't. Subjecting their Employees to undue scrutiny would not be sensical. It's not a major change to him. It's a fix. People made the choice to jump on the bandwagon and Rank him for LOL. That wasn't their doing.
  • Spurgeon14Spurgeon14 Member Posts: 1,665 ★★★★
    edited June 2018
    It's no big deal. People need to stop complaining about it.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    DaMunk wrote: »
    We have people debating whether it was a bug or intended but seems we are missing the bigger picture. With all available information this champ was working correctly. This was a sizable change to the champ, Nerf, without the ability for the players to make adjustments to their roster. If Kabam had only came out and said they needed to adjust him because he was breaking content, which they did say, then everyone would agreed this is a Nerf but they called it a fix which some people buy. Kabam also said in the past if they Nerf a champ they would give out rdts...but this is a fix... right? I'm fine with them making adjustments when needed and I'm fine if an employee makes a mistake. What I'm not real happy about is people made decisions based off their mistakes and they don't seem to want to make it right.

    People made the choice to jump on the bandwagon and Rank him for LOL. That wasn't their doing.

    That was EXACTLY their doing when they said AA was WORKING AS INTENDED and changed the thread title to read as 'Not a bug'. You cannot be that dense to not be able to see that.

    I was unaware that labelling a Thread "Not a bug" simultaneously Ranked someone's Roster and forced them to use a Champ for LOL.
  • phillgreenphillgreen Member Posts: 4,111 ★★★★★
    Subjecting their Employees to undue scrutiny would not be sensical. .

    What would make sensical is not allowing employees of a company to offer information if that information is not correct, not correcting that information as soon as possible and most importantly, relaying information that changes the way a champ operates as soon as a fix is planned rather than implemented.

    Doing your job properly and screwing your customers is not an either/or prospect but if you get either of those wrong then you better expect some well deserved scrutiny.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    phillgreen wrote: »
    Subjecting their Employees to undue scrutiny would not be sensical. .

    What would make sensical is not allowing employees of a company to offer information if that information is not correct, not correcting that information as soon as possible and most importantly, relaying information that changes the way a champ operates as soon as a fix is planned rather than implemented.

    Doing your job properly and screwing your customers is not an either/or prospect but if you get either of those wrong then you better expect some well deserved scrutiny.

    So...employing infallible Robots. Got it.
  • phillgreenphillgreen Member Posts: 4,111 ★★★★★
    reductio ad absurdum.

  • Sirnoob2Sirnoob2 Member Posts: 289 ★★
    phillgreen wrote: »
    Subjecting their Employees to undue scrutiny would not be sensical. .

    What would make sensical is not allowing employees of a company to offer information if that information is not correct, not correcting that information as soon as possible and most importantly, relaying information that changes the way a champ operates as soon as a fix is planned rather than implemented.

    Doing your job properly and screwing your customers is not an either/or prospect but if you get either of those wrong then you better expect some well deserved scrutiny.

    So...employing infallible Robots. Got it.

    I would love to work at a business u own where u would let ur employees give false info to ur customers and not try and make it right would be funny to see how long it last with those anti consumer values


    u seem to not realize why people are mad at the mods in any business the higher up need to be accountable for there employees if I'm a manager and my employee gives false info that results in the customer buying the wrong product I would step in and try to make it right if the customer decides he does not want the product or would like refund

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    Sirnoob2 wrote: »
    phillgreen wrote: »
    Subjecting their Employees to undue scrutiny would not be sensical. .

    What would make sensical is not allowing employees of a company to offer information if that information is not correct, not correcting that information as soon as possible and most importantly, relaying information that changes the way a champ operates as soon as a fix is planned rather than implemented.

    Doing your job properly and screwing your customers is not an either/or prospect but if you get either of those wrong then you better expect some well deserved scrutiny.

    So...employing infallible Robots. Got it.

    I would love to work at a business u own where u would let ur employees give false info to ur customers and not try and make it right would be funny to see how long it last with those anti consumer values


    u seem to not realize why people are mad at the mods in any business the higher up need to be accountable for there employees if I'm a manager and my employee gives false info that results in the customer buying the wrong product I would step in and try to make it right if the customer decides he does not want the product or would like refund

    Are we aware of what has happened as a result of that mistake? No.
  • Sirnoob2Sirnoob2 Member Posts: 289 ★★
    edited June 2018
    Sirnoob2 wrote: »
    phillgreen wrote: »
    Subjecting their Employees to undue scrutiny would not be sensical. .

    What would make sensical is not allowing employees of a company to offer information if that information is not correct, not correcting that information as soon as possible and most importantly, relaying information that changes the way a champ operates as soon as a fix is planned rather than implemented.

    Doing your job properly and screwing your customers is not an either/or prospect but if you get either of those wrong then you better expect some well deserved scrutiny.

    So...employing infallible Robots. Got it.

    I would love to work at a business u own where u would let ur employees give false info to ur customers and not try and make it right would be funny to see how long it last with those anti consumer values


    u seem to not realize why people are mad at the mods in any business the higher up need to be accountable for there employees if I'm a manager and my employee gives false info that results in the customer buying the wrong product I would step in and try to make it right if the customer decides he does not want the product or would like refund

    Are we aware of what has happened as a result of that mistake? No.

    and they shouldve been something like this after three years of being a company falls thru the cracks might be a sign your current process for handing bugs is not the best and u need to find ways of improving


    and the best part even after being made aware that a employee gave false info they did absolute nothing to try and make it right so the whole are we aware of it line doesn't even work here cause they were made aware of it
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    People keep talking about making it right. What would that be? Tickets? 6 months of gaining use of a bug isn't enough?
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Member Posts: 2,196 ★★★★★
    Any company with even the bare minimum of decency and integrity would try harder than this to do right by their customers, and I'm yet to see anyone give a clear and precise reason why we can't have AA specific rank down tickets. This whole situation is just so depressing.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    edited June 2018
    I happen to disagree that Tickets are called for. That's within reason.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Member Posts: 8,672 ★★★★★
    I was speaking in the general sense, not to your argument specifically. They've already commented that they won't be giving Tickets in his case. Fact is, if you Ranked him for LOL specifically, that was your prerogative. It was a fix. Not one that altered how he is meant to function.

    Stop it. How he was "meant" to function is irrelevant after we were told he was meant to function otherwise. Ranking someone for the hardest and most expensive content in the game if they have an ability that can save you money makes sense. Being told that he was meant to function that way ought to have made it safe. Calling it a "fix" when the "bug" was only announced after the fact is absurd. Every nerf is a "fix" depending on how you define the word. You are ignoring what is the right thing to do from an ethics/business standpoint based on semantics.
    How he is meant to function is not irrelevant. Especially since we've established it was a mistaken comment. In fact, how he was intended to function is exactly what we're discussing.

    It wasn't a mistaken comment unless we think he went rouge and answered on his own authority. He was the messenger from the game team. It was a correct comment based on incorrect information from the source. Real decisions were made based on this information using real money. This is what we call false advertising. In every way that matters this is a nerf and not a fix. Arguing that it is a fix is semantics. Functionally it's a nerf given what transpired. How he was intended to function in the mind of some developer has no bearing on decisions that people made based on how we were told he was intended to function. We are talking about what the right thing to do is in light of the false advertising. Everyone understands it was a "mistaken comment." In what area of business is selling something on the basis of false information from the manufacturer OK as long as it is eventually acknowledged that the information was false?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    I was speaking in the general sense, not to your argument specifically. They've already commented that they won't be giving Tickets in his case. Fact is, if you Ranked him for LOL specifically, that was your prerogative. It was a fix. Not one that altered how he is meant to function.

    Stop it. How he was "meant" to function is irrelevant after we were told he was meant to function otherwise. Ranking someone for the hardest and most expensive content in the game if they have an ability that can save you money makes sense. Being told that he was meant to function that way ought to have made it safe. Calling it a "fix" when the "bug" was only announced after the fact is absurd. Every nerf is a "fix" depending on how you define the word. You are ignoring what is the right thing to do from an ethics/business standpoint based on semantics.
    How he is meant to function is not irrelevant. Especially since we've established it was a mistaken comment. In fact, how he was intended to function is exactly what we're discussing.

    It wasn't a mistaken comment unless we think he went rouge and answered on his own authority. He was the messenger from the game team. It was a correct comment based on incorrect information from the source. Real decisions were made based on this information using real money. This is what we call false advertising. In every way that matters this is a nerf and not a fix. Arguing that it is a fix is semantics. Functionally it's a nerf given what transpired. How he was intended to function in the mind of some developer has no bearing on decisions that people made based on how we were told he was intended to function. We are talking about what the right thing to do is in light of the false advertising. Everyone understands it was a "mistaken comment." In what area of business is selling something on the basis of false information from the manufacturer OK as long as it is eventually acknowledged that the information was false?
    Care to tell me how Mods are selling anything when responding to Threads?
  • Sirnoob2Sirnoob2 Member Posts: 289 ★★
    People keep talking about making it right. What would that be? Tickets? 6 months of gaining use of a bug isn't enough?

    if the price u pay ends up costing u money due to ur company's mistake then that should be the right thing to do

    the anti consumer thing to do is go oh yeah our guy made a mistake our bad and do nothing to try and rectify that

  • Hollywood_Hollywood_ Member Posts: 70
    edited June 2018
    Kabam pride on their lie, Company goals : lie and disrespectful with their consumers.
    > this is a BUG in my phone, phone write message by its own. Lol
    But seriously it's time to move on and enjoy other games.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    I'm not being obtuse. I'm being ginger. However, that's not making a point, so let me try the blunt approach.
    Whether the Mod made a mistake or not, they were doing their job. That's what they do. Identify bugs and close Threads that aren't. They were wrong, yes. However, they weren't continually spreading misinformation. They believed it wasn't a bug, for whatever reason. Then they went on doing their job.
    6 months later, someone digs up the Thread, as this community loves to look for inconsistencies, and it becomes some sort of platform for injustice. At this point, it's barely even about the change. It's about getting a charge out of someone being wrong.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    RedRooster wrote: »
    Care to tell me how Mods are selling anything when responding to Threads?

    There is a difference between passive and active selling. People are "spending" resources based on what information they receive. Let's imagine this.
    1) I'm looking to get VPN software
    2) I ask the software company: I was using the trial version of this software and it allows me to browse the internet from China as though I'm outside China... is this feature working as intended because that's what I need.
    3) Company comes back and says yes, that is correct. It is working as intended.
    4) Based on that information I decide to buy a full copy. They didn't give me a sales pitch, they just provided information.
    5) 6 months later they announce that the software was never supposed to allow that function, it violates an agreement they have and that it would prevent them from introducing new as yet unannounced features. So they are patching the software.

    My purchase was based on information I received from the company, presumably in good faith. The express purpose for which I spent my money has now been taken away. It doesn't make the VPN software useless, for others, it may have zero impact because they never needed that function. You can bet I'm definitely going to ask for a refund though.

    I know if I was given an RDT for my 5*r4 AA, I would not be using it.

    I would say it is fair to issue RDTs, whether people use them or not is up to them, but an error was made and they can't deny that.



    For 6 months, people Ranked for their own reasons. They Ranked him, took full advantage of the bugged Ability, gained Rewards with it, and now want to swap because someone made a mistake. Quite convenient that Domino is out tomorrow as well. See what I'm saying?
    Besides that, the Tickets aren't for bug fixes. They're for major changes to how a Champ is intended to perform.
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Member Posts: 2,196 ★★★★★
    RedRooster wrote: »
    Care to tell me how Mods are selling anything when responding to Threads?

    There is a difference between passive and active selling. People are "spending" resources based on what information they receive. Let's imagine this.
    1) I'm looking to get VPN software
    2) I ask the software company: I was using the trial version of this software and it allows me to browse the internet from China as though I'm outside China... is this feature working as intended because that's what I need.
    3) Company comes back and says yes, that is correct. It is working as intended.
    4) Based on that information I decide to buy a full copy. They didn't give me a sales pitch, they just provided information.
    5) 6 months later they announce that the software was never supposed to allow that function, it violates an agreement they have and that it would prevent them from introducing new as yet unannounced features. So they are patching the software.

    My purchase was based on information I received from the company, presumably in good faith. The express purpose for which I spent my money has now been taken away. It doesn't make the VPN software useless, for others, it may have zero impact because they never needed that function. You can bet I'm definitely going to ask for a refund though.

    I know if I was given an RDT for my 5*r4 AA, I would not be using it.

    I would say it is fair to issue RDTs, whether people use them or not is up to them, but an error was made and they can't deny that.


    Besides that, the Tickets aren't for bug fixes. They're for major changes to how a Champ is intended to perform.

    What were the tickets at Christmas for again? Was it for all those major champ changes they made in December?
  • Sirnoob2Sirnoob2 Member Posts: 289 ★★
    RedRooster wrote: »
    Care to tell me how Mods are selling anything when responding to Threads?

    There is a difference between passive and active selling. People are "spending" resources based on what information they receive. Let's imagine this.
    1) I'm looking to get VPN software
    2) I ask the software company: I was using the trial version of this software and it allows me to browse the internet from China as though I'm outside China... is this feature working as intended because that's what I need.
    3) Company comes back and says yes, that is correct. It is working as intended.
    4) Based on that information I decide to buy a full copy. They didn't give me a sales pitch, they just provided information.
    5) 6 months later they announce that the software was never supposed to allow that function, it violates an agreement they have and that it would prevent them from introducing new as yet unannounced features. So they are patching the software.

    My purchase was based on information I received from the company, presumably in good faith. The express purpose for which I spent my money has now been taken away. It doesn't make the VPN software useless, for others, it may have zero impact because they never needed that function. You can bet I'm definitely going to ask for a refund though.

    I know if I was given an RDT for my 5*r4 AA, I would not be using it.

    I would say it is fair to issue RDTs, whether people use them or not is up to them, but an error was made and they can't deny that.



    For 6 months, people Ranked for their own reasons. They Ranked him, took full advantage of the bugged Ability, gained Rewards with it, and now want to swap because someone made a mistake. Quite convenient that Domino is out tomorrow as well. See what I'm saying?
    Besides that, the Tickets aren't for bug fixes. They're for major changes to how a Champ is intended to perform.

    for six months kabam told us that a champ was working as intended and had no problem letting us pump money and res into him
    they watched as people beat act 5 and used there gems on him

    then waited last second to change the champ see how that's kinda convient
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    Sirnoob2 wrote: »
    RedRooster wrote: »
    Care to tell me how Mods are selling anything when responding to Threads?

    There is a difference between passive and active selling. People are "spending" resources based on what information they receive. Let's imagine this.
    1) I'm looking to get VPN software
    2) I ask the software company: I was using the trial version of this software and it allows me to browse the internet from China as though I'm outside China... is this feature working as intended because that's what I need.
    3) Company comes back and says yes, that is correct. It is working as intended.
    4) Based on that information I decide to buy a full copy. They didn't give me a sales pitch, they just provided information.
    5) 6 months later they announce that the software was never supposed to allow that function, it violates an agreement they have and that it would prevent them from introducing new as yet unannounced features. So they are patching the software.

    My purchase was based on information I received from the company, presumably in good faith. The express purpose for which I spent my money has now been taken away. It doesn't make the VPN software useless, for others, it may have zero impact because they never needed that function. You can bet I'm definitely going to ask for a refund though.

    I know if I was given an RDT for my 5*r4 AA, I would not be using it.

    I would say it is fair to issue RDTs, whether people use them or not is up to them, but an error was made and they can't deny that.



    For 6 months, people Ranked for their own reasons. They Ranked him, took full advantage of the bugged Ability, gained Rewards with it, and now want to swap because someone made a mistake. Quite convenient that Domino is out tomorrow as well. See what I'm saying?
    Besides that, the Tickets aren't for bug fixes. They're for major changes to how a Champ is intended to perform.

    for six months kabam told us that a champ was working as intended and had no problem letting us pump money and res into him
    they watched as people beat act 5 and used there gems on him

    then waited last second to change the champ see how that's kinda convient

    No. They didn't. They responded once. 6 months ago.
  • Sirnoob2Sirnoob2 Member Posts: 289 ★★
    Sirnoob2 wrote: »
    RedRooster wrote: »
    Care to tell me how Mods are selling anything when responding to Threads?

    There is a difference between passive and active selling. People are "spending" resources based on what information they receive. Let's imagine this.
    1) I'm looking to get VPN software
    2) I ask the software company: I was using the trial version of this software and it allows me to browse the internet from China as though I'm outside China... is this feature working as intended because that's what I need.
    3) Company comes back and says yes, that is correct. It is working as intended.
    4) Based on that information I decide to buy a full copy. They didn't give me a sales pitch, they just provided information.
    5) 6 months later they announce that the software was never supposed to allow that function, it violates an agreement they have and that it would prevent them from introducing new as yet unannounced features. So they are patching the software.

    My purchase was based on information I received from the company, presumably in good faith. The express purpose for which I spent my money has now been taken away. It doesn't make the VPN software useless, for others, it may have zero impact because they never needed that function. You can bet I'm definitely going to ask for a refund though.

    I know if I was given an RDT for my 5*r4 AA, I would not be using it.

    I would say it is fair to issue RDTs, whether people use them or not is up to them, but an error was made and they can't deny that.



    For 6 months, people Ranked for their own reasons. They Ranked him, took full advantage of the bugged Ability, gained Rewards with it, and now want to swap because someone made a mistake. Quite convenient that Domino is out tomorrow as well. See what I'm saying?
    Besides that, the Tickets aren't for bug fixes. They're for major changes to how a Champ is intended to perform.

    for six months kabam told us that a champ was working as intended and had no problem letting us pump money and res into him
    they watched as people beat act 5 and used there gems on him

    then waited last second to change the champ see how that's kinda convient

    No. They didn't. They responded once. 6 months ago.

    by not updating there customers they allowed bad info to spread
  • RedRoosterRedRooster Member Posts: 337 ★★
    For 6 months, people Ranked for their own reasons. They Ranked him, took full advantage of the bugged Ability, gained Rewards with it, and now want to swap because someone made a mistake. Quite convenient that Domino is out tomorrow as well. See what I'm saying?
    Besides that, the Tickets aren't for bug fixes. They're for major changes to how a Champ is intended to perform.

    Yes... and the mistake was a Kabam employee, not the players. Again, if I got 6 months use of a VPN, but then the company told me they were removing the sole purpose for me buying it in the first place. Then yes, I would still ask for a refund.

    Domino is out tomorrow because of Kabam's release schedule for champs is in line with their release schedule for fixes and changes. If they had announced the AA change last month I'm quite certain you would have had the same uproar from AA owners. You're the one who usually doesn't like to add credence to conspiracy theories, so why would you spin one now? Except that it supports your position.

    It is a major change. I hate the semantics on this argument. What defines something as a significant change on a champ, but the effect it on the game and how it is played. I think people like to think of it in absolute terms. The difference between say a 5% reduction and a 50% reduction to an ability. But if that 5% in a champ versus the 50% in another has more of an impact on how that champ is played, then it should be considered significant.

    They called it game-breaking, how more significant an effect can we talk about? They want to take away the ability for a champ to significantly affect portions of the game, but tell us in the same breath that it is not a significant change to the champ. If that is the case, then don't change the champ... or do and issue RDTs.

    I don't get why Kabam refuse to appease its players when it makes a mistake. It's not like it really costs them. It's not like players are going to use the RDTs, rank up someone else and then say. "You know what, I don't need to R4 or R5 anyone else, I'm going to stop playing and building out my roster." Those players are more like to keep playing and keep spending IF Kabam treat them right.
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