Challenger Rating's Purpose

Tell me again how this helps to balance the game? The idea that my champions stats get nerfed anytime I fight an opponent ranked higher than me is just preposterous. Isn't that what class advantage is for? If you're fighting an opponent ranked higher than you it is already an uphill battle. Adding challenger rating just takes that uphill battle, and puts someone at the top of the hill constantly throwing down marbles.

Maybe someone has a better explanation on how it helps to balance the game, but from where I'm sitting it was only introduced to tip the scales, and 95% of the time it's in the A.I.'s favor.

Comments

  • Fel_95Fel_95 Posts: 347
    It's nonsense, but luckily after 12.1 they its magnitude and scaled, to make more uniform, the Challenger rating of all ranking. Now the stat variations are so little we can roll with it.

    But yeah, to me CR has no practical sense and I don't understand why they introduced it. Let's just hope they don't step back as it was in 12.0
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 16,663
    edited May 2017
    Well, CR affects the strength of Abilities in relation to fighting other Champs with equal or different CR's. Yes, we have crossover CR now. Meaning an R5 4* is the same as an R3 5*. CR is determined by the Rank and Star Level of the Champ. It's logical really. A Champ that's tougher than ours is going to take less Damage. Ones weaker than ours will take more Damage. CR sets Base Stat limits because when it was switched to Flat Rate, everything was raised to its highest value. CR regulates the Base Stats in relation to other CR's. A higher Star Level will do slightly more Damage because its Base Stats are slightly higher, even though it may have the same CR. Higher CR means stronger Base Stats. Stats don't get nerfed by it. It adjusts to the appropriate strength for the Champ you're fighting agaisnt.
  • GbSarkarGbSarkar Posts: 1,075
    One reason: to prevent players from achieving high % values (or achieving 100%) for certain base stats like crit rate (with +35% crit rate team, or on high combo for RR/JF), block proficiency (100% block pro with Cap Am with LC-IF block pro synergies), etc
  • Isn't it obvious? Money.
  • OGHeRRoOGHeRRo Posts: 112
    @GroundedWisdom , I've noticed in aq my damage output with my 5* Hyperion day was relatively similar to today's. From what you're saying majority of the opponents on day one were lower than my hyp by 1-2k in rating but yet still took the same scaled damage as the 12-15k rated opponents I fought today. CR should have caused the day one enemies to take more damage correct? Or did I misinterpret that? That's kinda what makes me wonder is fighting a lower rated opponent the damage seems exactly the same as fighting a higher rated opponent from the players end but definitely not for the AI.
  • Dazman220Dazman220 Posts: 49
    Just wait till they unzero the stats that they zeroed out previously, then things will be even worse.
  • Mcord11758Mcord11758 Posts: 637
    Sole purpose of challenger rating is to move the goal post. It used to be that if you had a great champ ranked high whether it be a 5/50 4* or a rank 4 5* you in large part could kill everything. In order to prevent this they created a system that weakens lower champs and buffs stronger champs. On days 4 and 5 of aq no matter what your champ will be lower and thus be punished for it. This artificially makes the fights harder and reduces the abilities of your champs.

    In other words, instead of creating more interesting or challenging content they just put their finger on the scale.
  • Mcord11758Mcord11758 Posts: 637
    OGHeRRo wrote: »
    @GroundedWisdom , I've noticed in aq my damage output with my 5* Hyperion day was relatively similar to today's. From what you're saying majority of the opponents on day one were lower than my hyp by 1-2k in rating but yet still took the same scaled damage as the 12-15k rated opponents I fought today. CR should have caused the day one enemies to take more damage correct? Or did I misinterpret that? That's kinda what makes me wonder is fighting a lower rated opponent the damage seems exactly the same as fighting a higher rated opponent from the players end but definitely not for the AI.

    It wouldn't surprise me if it were implemented in a one sided fashion but it would be hard to proove out
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,044
    OGHeRRo wrote: »
    @GroundedWisdom , I've noticed in aq my damage output with my 5* Hyperion day was relatively similar to today's. From what you're saying majority of the opponents on day one were lower than my hyp by 1-2k in rating but yet still took the same scaled damage as the 12-15k rated opponents I fought today. CR should have caused the day one enemies to take more damage correct? Or did I misinterpret that? That's kinda what makes me wonder is fighting a lower rated opponent the damage seems exactly the same as fighting a higher rated opponent from the players end but definitely not for the AI.

    Rating, as in PI, doesn't matter. CR isn't dependent on that. CR is a stat, like any other stat. It is set based on the champion's star rating and tier rank, i.e. 4* rank 5 (the level within the rank doesn't matter).

    What CR does mechanically is it is used as a tuning parameter in the DR function. It therefore only affects stats that are themselves affected by DR. That is the only thing CR does. The higher the challenger rating of your opponent, the faster DR takes effect. Because the DR formula as a base tuning parameter of 1500 and CR is multiplied by 5 and added to that, its net effect is typically small because CR numbers range up to 120, and its effect in the formula tends to get swamped by the base tuning parameter.

    Typically, CR affects the net value of stats by between half a percentage point and a couple percentage points. It is enough to change things by a small amount, but not a dramatic amount. The average player cannot visually see CR in action without careful observation.

    As to what CR is for, that's a long and complicated discussion. The short answer is that Kabam was looking to implement a set of new parameters to rebalance combat to increase the value of high ranks and decrease the value of lower ranks when fighting higher ranks. However, they changed too many things too quickly in 12.0 and some of their changes had a far stronger impact than they had apparently assumed, necessitating them to back off of many of them. CR is one of the parameters they have backed off so much on, it currently doesn't do much in terms of balancing at the moment. It is probably something they will return to reassess at some point in the future.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 16,663
    OGHeRRo wrote: »
    @GroundedWisdom , I've noticed in aq my damage output with my 5* Hyperion day was relatively similar to today's. From what you're saying majority of the opponents on day one were lower than my hyp by 1-2k in rating but yet still took the same scaled damage as the 12-15k rated opponents I fought today. CR should have caused the day one enemies to take more damage correct? Or did I misinterpret that? That's kinda what makes me wonder is fighting a lower rated opponent the damage seems exactly the same as fighting a higher rated opponent from the players end but definitely not for the AI.
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    OGHeRRo wrote: »
    @GroundedWisdom , I've noticed in aq my damage output with my 5* Hyperion day was relatively similar to today's. From what you're saying majority of the opponents on day one were lower than my hyp by 1-2k in rating but yet still took the same scaled damage as the 12-15k rated opponents I fought today. CR should have caused the day one enemies to take more damage correct? Or did I misinterpret that? That's kinda what makes me wonder is fighting a lower rated opponent the damage seems exactly the same as fighting a higher rated opponent from the players end but definitely not for the AI.

    Rating, as in PI, doesn't matter. CR isn't dependent on that. CR is a stat, like any other stat. It is set based on the champion's star rating and tier rank, i.e. 4* rank 5 (the level within the rank doesn't matter).

    What CR does mechanically is it is used as a tuning parameter in the DR function. It therefore only affects stats that are themselves affected by DR. That is the only thing CR does. The higher the challenger rating of your opponent, the faster DR takes effect. Because the DR formula as a base tuning parameter of 1500 and CR is multiplied by 5 and added to that, its net effect is typically small because CR numbers range up to 120, and its effect in the formula tends to get swamped by the base tuning parameter.

    Typically, CR affects the net value of stats by between half a percentage point and a couple percentage points. It is enough to change things by a small amount, but not a dramatic amount. The average player cannot visually see CR in action without careful observation.

    As to what CR is for, that's a long and complicated discussion. The short answer is that Kabam was looking to implement a set of new parameters to rebalance combat to increase the value of high ranks and decrease the value of lower ranks when fighting higher ranks. However, they changed too many things too quickly in 12.0 and some of their changes had a far stronger impact than they had apparently assumed, necessitating them to back off of many of them. CR is one of the parameters they have backed off so much on, it currently doesn't do much in terms of balancing at the moment. It is probably something they will return to reassess at some point in the future.

    Thanks for adding. :)
  • OGHeRRoOGHeRRo Posts: 112
    @DNA3000 appreciate the post , I see where I misinterpreted CR. Although I definitely think they need to figure out a way to adjust it.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,044
    OGHeRRo wrote: »
    @DNA3000 appreciate the post , I see where I misinterpreted CR. Although I definitely think they need to figure out a way to adjust it.

    Honestly, the devs have many things I would like them to spend time figuring out. "All of the math" would be one of them. I also wish Kabam was less reticent about explaining how things work to the players. The quants (like all five of us, maybe) knew almost immediately that things like critical resistance and armor penetration were responsible for 99.5% of all the difficulty issues at 12.0 release, but players spent weeks blaming challenger rating because that was the only thing that Kabam mentioned specifically. So of course everyone is going to blame CR, even though CR, even the bad CR from 12.0, was responsible for like 0.5% of the difficulty issues. I can't completely blame the players for that one, although I wish there was a way to redirect the blame in the right direction.
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