A Question about AAR

DrZolaDrZola Posts: 1,864
edited June 2018 in General Discussion
Which champs are immune to Ability Accuracy Reduction (AAR)? Judging by their descriptions, Mordo and AA are, but it would be helpful to know precisely which abilities and champs are immune to AAR.

Likewise, it would be helpful to understand what happens when you have an ability accuracy reduction champ (Blade) pitted against an AAR immune champ. For example, Blade’s Danger Sense no longer operates to reduce Mordo’s Astral Evade, but can Danger Sense operate to reduce AA’s abilities? Presumably only Mordo and AA are immune to Danger Sense because their abilities always operate perfectly—is that correct?

This isn’t another effort to revive the “Blade got nerfed” bandwagon—please don’t derail it with comments like that. Rather, it seems like the team is trying to clean up a batch of interactions between abilities, AAR, specific nodes, et al., which is in my opinion a good idea. But clear guidance would be appreciated on how AAR and abilities are supposed to interact, especially from the game team.

Thanks in advance.

Dr. Zola

Comments

  • StewmanStewman Posts: 488
    Blade will never have DS against AA. So I guess we will never know.
  • Anurag1606Anurag1606 Posts: 825
    AA being a hero will never activate danger sense. So that is out of question.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 1,864
    edited June 2018
    All well and good re: AA...so are there other champs who have AAR immunity?

    Dr. Zola
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 2,356
    Stewman wrote: »
    Blade will never have DS against AA. So I guess we will never know.

    Never say never. New synergies can be added. Maybe he hunts all mutants with a newly released champ that gives him Danger Sense against all mutants.

    Also I believe Mephisto (might need a dupe?) is supposedly immune to AAR as well.
  • will-o-wispwill-o-wisp Posts: 5,270
    Mephisto has some immunity to it, but Danger Sense can ignore it. Same thing foes for Mordo.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 1,864
    Correct about Mephisto. So precisely how is this supposed to operate against AAR abilities? What ability of Mephisto doesn’t get reduced?

    Dr. Zola

    ee7x9j4ep42j.png
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 1,864
    edited June 2018
    Mephisto has some immunity to it, but Danger Sense can ignore it. Same thing foes for Mordo.

    Actually, there’s a long thread or two about how DS doesn’t bypass Mordo’s astral evade because it always processes perfectly. It’s over in bugs. https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/76702/blade-ability-reduction-has-been-messed-with#latest

    But that’s not the main point here. I’d like to get a clear idea of how the team understands AAR and abilities. For example, the Mephisto description above says “Mephisto is immune,” not “Mephisto’s aura is immune.” What precisely does that mean and how does it work against AAR champs?

    Dr. Zola
  • MninobodyMninobody Posts: 121
    I think some are getting derailed from the actual point of the post. kabam, please clearly define Ability reduction for each champ that has it, and how those champs ability interact with other champs who have some immune to those abilities. Please!!!
  • will-o-wispwill-o-wisp Posts: 5,270
    DrZola wrote: »
    Mephisto has some immunity to it, but Danger Sense can ignore it. Same thing foes for Mordo.

    Actually, there’s a long thread or two about how DS doesn’t bypass Mordo’s astral evade because it always processes perfectly. It’s over in bugs.

    Dr. Zola

    Wasn't that confirmed as a bug? Because in Blade's description, it says that he ignores immunities. He should ignore mordo immunity too
  • StewmanStewman Posts: 488
    DrZola wrote: »
    Mephisto has some immunity to it, but Danger Sense can ignore it. Same thing foes for Mordo.

    Actually, there’s a long thread or two about how DS doesn’t bypass Mordo’s astral evade because it always processes perfectly. It’s over in bugs.

    Dr. Zola

    Wasn't that confirmed as a bug? Because in Blade's description, it says that he ignores immunities. He should ignore mordo immunity too

    Nope. It was confirmed as "working as intended"

  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 1,864
    edited June 2018
    DrZola wrote: »
    Mephisto has some immunity to it, but Danger Sense can ignore it. Same thing foes for Mordo.

    Actually, there’s a long thread or two about how DS doesn’t bypass Mordo’s astral evade because it always processes perfectly. It’s over in bugs.

    Dr. Zola

    Wasn't that confirmed as a bug? Because in Blade's description, it says that he ignores immunities. He should ignore mordo immunity too

    If I understand you correctly, then no—what the link I posted confirms is that Mordo’s astral evade isn’t subject to DS because Mordo isn’t a dimensional being and has AAR immunity. He’s an example of how AAR immunity trumps AAR.

    Dr. Zola
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 2,356
    See this is the problem when you add too many abilities, mechanics, and interactions. It should be very simple. If you’re immune to AAR such as AA and Mordo, then that’s it, you’re immune. If not, you’re affected by AAR. They made a big mistake when they added Blade’s Danger Sense and let it affect Mephisto and Mordo. Danger Sense should still affect Dorm and Magik but Mephisto and Mordo’s AAR immunity should leave their abilities untouched.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 6,076
    DrZola wrote: »
    Mephisto has some immunity to it, but Danger Sense can ignore it. Same thing foes for Mordo.

    Actually, there’s a long thread or two about how DS doesn’t bypass Mordo’s astral evade because it always processes perfectly. It’s over in bugs. https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/76702/blade-ability-reduction-has-been-messed-with#latest

    But that’s not the main point here. I’d like to get a clear idea of how the team understands AAR and abilities. For example, the Mephisto description above says “Mephisto is immune,” not “Mephisto’s aura is immune.” What precisely does that mean and how does it work against AAR champs?

    Dr. Zola

    I was actually thinking about this recently when believe it or not the game's loading screen decided to give me a hint:
    n1m30248vl4m.png

    Apparently the way the game works is that every champion has an ability accuracy attribute that by default is 100% (or 1.0). Whenever that champion uses an ability that claims to have a chance for something to trigger, the *actual* chance to trigger is modified by that champion's ability accuracy attribute. So if an ability has a 50% chance to trigger something but the champion's ability accuracy attribute is 75%, then the actual chance to occur is 37.5% - 50% * 0.75. Ability accuracy debuffs affect this stat, not the abilities themselves directly.

    This doesn't seem to be the whole story because debuffs can affect "ability accuracy" or "defensive ability accuracy" and so on. I'm not sure if that means there are actually multiple ability accuracy stats, or there is only one stat and the debuffs only affect certain situations.

    When Mephisto says in his signature ability panel that he is immune to "passive ability accuracy reduction" I interpret that to mean, in game mechanical terms, that Mephisto has an immunity to passive ability accuracy debuffs. Danger sense explicitly states it ignores dimensional beings' ability accuracy immunities, so danger sense's ability accuracy reduction debuff works against Mephisto.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 1,864
    @DNA3000 that’s too funny! Those pithy little loading screens can be so full of wisdom.

    In truth, Domino is what got me thinking about this—her ability to negate even the most basic abilities and mechanics made me ask what actually was a “mechanic” and what was an “ability” (that nomenclature may be imprecise, but it was how I initially started thinking).

    Maybe a decent place to start is to define what actually is a specific champ’s ability? I’d love to see one of the game team guys wade in here and pick a simple champ (say, Abom or Spidey) and a more complex one (say, Black Widow, Mephisto or even Blade) and then maybe a more complex one (IWIM, Domino, etc.). Then talk about synergies/nodes/other champs abilities and specifically how they enhance or reduce those abilities. Final point could be what specific types of abilities cannot be reduced.

    It’s a lot, I’m sure. But AAR and the whole concept of abilities has been getting burnished lately. Here’s a shot at explaining how the team sees the whole thing.

    Seems like if the forums are here for anything, this is it.

    Dr. Zola

  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 6,076
    DrZola wrote: »
    Maybe a decent place to start is to define what actually is a specific champ’s ability? I’d love to see one of the game team guys wade in here and pick a simple champ (say, Abom or Spidey) and a more complex one (say, Black Widow, Mephisto or even Blade) and then maybe a more complex one (IWIM, Domino, etc.). Then talk about synergies/nodes/other champs abilities and specifically how they enhance or reduce those abilities. Final point could be what specific types of abilities cannot be reduced.

    I've taken game mechanics apart before, so this is not entirely foreign to me and there's a lot of common "language" but there are a lot of specifics that are unclear. I would love to see the game team explain more precisely, or barring that work with someone willing to write up better explanations for how things work, and even what terms actually mean. It doesn't help anyone when the game says something is a "passive" ability but no one really knows precisely what that means. "Ability accuracy" was actually the first technical term that did not have an obvious meaning that I had to work out from scratch, and it took a while, and as above I'm still discovering revelations about. I believe in the notion of players being well-informed, whether they choose to use that information or not.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 1,864
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    DrZola wrote: »
    Maybe a decent place to start is to define what actually is a specific champ’s ability? I’d love to see one of the game team guys wade in here and pick a simple champ (say, Abom or Spidey) and a more complex one (say, Black Widow, Mephisto or even Blade) and then maybe a more complex one (IWIM, Domino, etc.). Then talk about synergies/nodes/other champs abilities and specifically how they enhance or reduce those abilities. Final point could be what specific types of abilities cannot be reduced.

    I've taken game mechanics apart before, so this is not entirely foreign to me and there's a lot of common "language" but there are a lot of specifics that are unclear. I would love to see the game team explain more precisely, or barring that work with someone willing to write up better explanations for how things work, and even what terms actually mean. It doesn't help anyone when the game says something is a "passive" ability but no one really knows precisely what that means. "Ability accuracy" was actually the first technical term that did not have an obvious meaning that I had to work out from scratch, and it took a while, and as above I'm still discovering revelations about. I believe in the notion of players being well-informed, whether they choose to use that information or not.

    Totally agree. However, the history of this game includes so much obfuscation, from initial catalyst rankup formulae to prestige stats to drop rates to notions of ability accuracy.

    I’m not holding my breath—this thread has been here all afternoon with no acknowledgement. We would sooner get mod attention if we suddenly started griping about Drax and Mordo and AA and drop rates and nerfing etc.

    Dr. Zola
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