On cheating, fulfillment, and the joy of achievement with regard to gaming and sports

Saw some stuff about more piloting and shady sh*t. Got me thinking. Thought I would just type as I thought...

Personally, I have never in my life found any joy or satisfaction in cheating to achieve victory in anything.

I am so competitive (with myself and others) that it is impossible for me. I want to win or lose on my own merit as a competitor.

Some people want to be #1 by any means simply so they can cowardly pretend they are actually as good as the achievement suggests they are. These people are weak.

If you got stuck on a Super Mario Bros. level, and had a friend pass that level for you...You can never say that you had the skills to beat the game.

So why do it? It seems paradoxical. Perhaps that is not the correct term, but it is the one that comes to mind.

That people would ever pay money to have a pilot win a game for them is so damn bizarre to me. Especially, in a game like MCOC. What is the reward for this? What does one get out of this? Doesn’t it defeat its own purpose?

The only logical explanation I can formulate is that there must be an underlying race to see who can best undermine a given game. That this compulsion is far greater than the desire to actually achieve excellence.

I try and imagine someone like Kasparov paying someone to play chess for him and then pretending he was #1.

Ultimately...Do you find satisfaction in merely being recognized as one of the best, or actually being the best? Or, like me, are you one who gets this satisfaction from the effort to become the best. From knowing I played my ass off.

I would love to hear your thoughts on the nature and philosophy of competition and it’s effects on the individual.

Comments

SDP

I did not mean for this to be in “suggestions and requests”. Could the mods please move this to the appropriate category?

Riegel

Sad truth is that there are a lot of people who will spend thousands on getting every champion in the game, and then buy someone else an iPad, and pay them, to play those champions for them to get the best rewards. Welcome to AW seasons.

SDP

Is it driven solely by an addiction to get these little characters? To look at them and feel accomplished in some way?

Sirnoob2

KinkyWizard1 wrote: »

Is it driven solely by an addiction to get these little characters? To look at them and feel accomplished in some way?

no matter the game some will always have excuses to cheat the more competitive the game the more excuses

SDP

If one is not good enough to play a certain game, what is it that compels them to cheat to win it? Especially, a game like this with little public praise or monetary gain?

Sirnoob2

KinkyWizard1 wrote: »

If one is not good enough to play a certain game, what is it that compels them to cheat to win it? Especially, a game like this with little public praise or monetary gain?

like I said some will always have excuses

some think that if X content is difficult that justify them to do any thing they want

SDP

Do these people pay people to beat LOL or Act 5 for them as well? What the hell is the point of it? I’m truly baffled.

John757

It’s the same reason some people get sports cars and big trucks, yet know nothing about sports car and trucks...if you know what I mean haha

New_Noob168

Riegel wrote: »

Sad truth is that there are a lot of people who will spend thousands on getting every champion in the game, and then buy someone else an iPad, and pay them, to play those champions for them to get the best rewards. Welcome to AW seasons.

Not trying to be mean, but aren’t you one of them since you first reported that alliance login and kick issue. Aren’t you in one of thiseb2 alliance in question

SDP

Totally understand, John757. What is confusing is that there is very little recognition in the public eye for MCOC war accomplishments. If someone blows all their money to flaunt a Porsche in public, girls or whomever this person is looking to impress actually see it. Ya know?

Nobody I know in my life gives a sh*t if I won a war in some mobile game. NOBODY.

Sirnoob2

KinkyWizard1 wrote: »

Totally understand, John757. What is confusing is that there is very little recognition in the public eye for MCOC war accomplishments. If someone blows all their money to flaunt a Porsche in public, girls or whomever this person is looking to impress actually see it. Ya know?

Nobody I know in my life gives a sh*t if I won a war in some mobile game. NOBODY.

some people ddos others in cod and destiny just to win a match

gamers can be extremley toxic

Riegel

New_Noob168 wrote: »

Riegel wrote: »

Sad truth is that there are a lot of people who will spend thousands on getting every champion in the game, and then buy someone else an iPad, and pay them, to play those champions for them to get the best rewards. Welcome to AW seasons.

Not trying to be mean, but aren’t you one of them since you first reported that alliance login and kick issue. Aren’t you in one of thiseb2 alliance in question

I report people who are cheating. I don't cheat. I want a fair match up to really see who is best at this game. Call me whatever you like, but if I see something shady I'm gonna report it. If you think I'm doing something shady then by all means report it. We will never have a fair game if everyone stays quiet and it's killing the game. Speak up.

John757

KinkyWizard1 wrote: »

Totally understand, John757. What is confusing is that there is very little recognition in the public eye for MCOC war accomplishments. If someone blows all their money to flaunt a Porsche in public, girls or whomever this person is looking to impress actually see it. Ya know?

Nobody I know in my life gives a sh*t if I won a war in some mobile game. NOBODY.

It’s totally a mental thing. But I agree, no one honestly cares haha

EnderDraco58

For certain games, there is ample reason to want to cheat. I'll use something like pokemon as an example. If you want a pokemon, but it's not available in game or until very late in the game, then you might want to cheat for it. If it's an extremely cool vanity pokemon like Mewtwo, then that's obviously a valid desire. But I agree that for a game like this, cheating isn't really worth it. Not saying it's a bad game, just nothing to gain from cheating.

Sirnoob2

EnderDraco58 wrote: »

For certain games, there is ample reason to want to cheat. I'll use something like pokemon as an example. If you want a pokemon, but it's not available in game or until very late in the game, then you might want to cheat for it. If it's an extremely cool vanity pokemon like Mewtwo, then that's obviously a valid desire. But I agree that for a game like this, cheating isn't really worth it. Not saying it's a bad game, just nothing to gain from cheating.

isn't every Pokemon avaible at this point between gts and pokebank

EnderDraco58

Sirnoob2 wrote: »

EnderDraco58 wrote: »

For certain games, there is ample reason to want to cheat. I'll use something like pokemon as an example. If you want a pokemon, but it's not available in game or until very late in the game, then you might want to cheat for it. If it's an extremely cool vanity pokemon like Mewtwo, then that's obviously a valid desire. But I agree that for a game like this, cheating isn't really worth it. Not saying it's a bad game, just nothing to gain from cheating.

isn't every Pokemon avaible at this point between gts and pokebank

I mean, yeah. But I love pokemon, and I've played plenty of their games, but not enough to have every pokemon for the pokebank. Plus, it's just a hypothetical.

I'm glad that I have a fellow pokemon fan on the forums

unknown

This content has been removed.

Bruce12342

John757 wrote: »

It’s the same reason some people get sports cars and big trucks, yet know nothing about sports car and trucks...if you know what I mean haha

You mean to tell me these people are trying to get to the top of MCoC for sexual benefits?

Colinwhitworth69

It pays, apparently, to be a scrub. Don't have to deal with these issues. Sounds pathetic though.

DTMelodicMetal

AW Season 3 MVP is Game Center

DTMelodicMetal

Riegel wrote: »

I report people who are cheating. I don't cheat. I want a fair match up to really see who is best at this game. Call me whatever you like, but if I see something shady I'm gonna report it. If you think I'm doing something shady then by all means report it. We will never have a fair game if everyone stays quiet and it's killing the game. Speak up.

A lot of people don't understand this. At the highest levels of competition it's not about winning or losing. It's about the rush of competition and the enjoyment of the game. Phil Jackson's book "Eleven Rings" goes into great detail about this.

Discovering the limits of yourself in competitive sports and then going beyond those limits means more than winning or losing. MCOC is not a competitive sport but that message applies to video game competition. Cheaters ruin both real sports and eSports. We can only hope those that have the power to end cheating/account sharing/TOS violations/and so on in MCOC finally decide to take steps to do so.

Hammerbro_64

The thing is, some people don’t have morals...or they don’t take pride in their successes...I’m in the same boat as you, I never cheat in a competition in order to gain an edge. Takes away from the fun...people seem to have forgotten that this is supposed to be fun and not a cutthroat race that anything actually matters

DNA3000

KinkyWizard1 wrote: »

Is it driven solely by an addiction to get these little characters? To look at them and feel accomplished in some way?

I don't think you can blame "addiction" for cheating, as it stretches the definition of addiction. I've seen the desire to win override good judgment in situations that have no connection to addiction. Years ago a tech company flamed out and went out of business and their stuff - lots of it brand new stuff - went up for auction. My business partner and I went to the auction to see if we could snag some stuff at a discount. However, what we discovered was that a lot of stuff like large screen displays were in such demand that the bidders ended up bidding more than they cost at retail for them. Now, some of that was ignorance: they did not do their homework on what these things cost. But some of that was sheer competitive stupidity: people were bidding up an item that there were dozens of for no good reason, except they got caught up in the bidding war.

I don't think people need a reason to cheat. They want to win, and they decide to cross an invisible line to do what is necessary in their minds to win. What you need is not a reason to cheat, but a rationale that justifies cheating. And there are a lot of those. Everyone does it, so it only evens the playing field if you do it. Others would do it if they could get away with it, so you're just a better player than they are because you can get away with it. People who accuse others of cheating are hypocrites. The game is rigged anyway. The rules are not fair. People are just jealous of those willing to do what it takes to win.

In the movie The Big Kahuna the character Phil played by Danny Devito tells the character Bob played by Peter Facinelli that he lacks character because he doesn't regret anything yet. When Bob asks Phil if he is claiming that Bob has to do something he regrets just to gain character, Phil corrects him by saying that it isn't that you have to do something you regret to achieve character, its that Bob has done lots of things he should regret, he just doesn't know what they are yet. His belief that he's done absolutely nothing wrong in his life is a sign he can't look at himself honestly. It is only when he can look at himself with honesty that he will see all the things he's done that he should regret, and that's when he will attain some measure of character.

Vale84

KinkyWizard1 wrote: »

Saw some stuff about more piloting and shady sh*t. Got me thinking. Thought I would just type as I thought...

Personally, I have never in my life found any joy or satisfaction in cheating to achieve victory in anything.

I am so competitive (with myself and others) that it is impossible for me. I want to win or lose on my own merit as a competitor.

Some people want to be #1 by any means simply so they can cowardly pretend they are actually as good as the achievement suggests they are. These people are weak.

If you got stuck on a Super Mario Bros. level, and had a friend pass that level for you...You can never say that you had the skills to beat the game.

So why do it? It seems paradoxical. Perhaps that is not the correct term, but it is the one that comes to mind.

That people would ever pay money to have a pilot win a game for them is so damn bizarre to me. Especially, in a game like MCOC. What is the reward for this? What does one get out of this? Doesn’t it defeat its own purpose?

The only logical explanation I can formulate is that there must be an underlying race to see who can best undermine a given game. That this compulsion is far greater than the desire to actually achieve excellence.

I try and imagine someone like Kasparov paying someone to play chess for him and then pretending he was #1.

Ultimately...Do you find satisfaction in merely being recognized as one of the best, or actually being the best? Or, like me, are you one who gets this satisfaction from the effort to become the best. From knowing I played my ass off.

I would love to hear your thoughts on the nature and philosophy of competition and it’s effects on the individual.

What i think is that once you spend thousands and thousands of money on this game just cause you can, it becomes unacceptable for anyone to not be at the top. That's pretty much it.

In my experience there are at least 3 kind of cheaters in this game:

1)Players who don't care about the game or being banned, they just try to cut steps. (mods)
2)PLayers who can't afford the costs of keeping competitive and so try a workaround (fraud units)
3)People who spend without coscience, and they can't accept you need still to know how to play (cheating-colluding)

In the case of the recent war issues, this people can't simply accept that the amount they spend can't grant them absolute domination. They are unable to discern the fact they do depend from the gamble and not the game itself.

Thus, they use every trick in their sleeves, cause spending so much entitles them (or so they think) to retain Mcoc like it's their property. Pretty much as a bad personell director would do anything to his workers thinking he owns them.

To them doesnt matter feeling the best as long s they are signed as so. As long as your name is at the top, they ll feel satisfied no matter what cheap tricks they ll use. Pretty much like buisness. So...

No, i don't feel satisfaction if i'd let others play for me, but i surely felt satisfation in smashing said individuals in war seasons every time i faced them, despite their tricks.
In the end tho, i'd also like that said sad ppl would get kicked once and for all, cause the cancer in this game is all about them.

ESF

It's bizarre to me in the regard that none of this is real. It's just a game, a mobile game, that is going to shut down one day. When it does, these characters, these rewards...they will be gone. Not only will no one else remember or care, you will have no tangible asset to use.

I like to play the game. I like to compete and try to improve. But it is just crazy to me...the concept of piloting, letting some stranger access your account, and especially paying someone else is just crazy to me

DNA3000

Vale84 wrote: »

What i think is that once you spend thousands and thousands of money on this game just cause you can, it becomes unacceptable for anyone to not be at the top. That's pretty much it.

Alliances are getting rating penalties for cheating down in tier 12 from what I've heard. I'm hoping no one has spent thousands of dollars to get to tier 12.

DNA3000

ESF wrote: »

It's bizarre to me in the regard that none of this is real. It's just a game, a mobile game, that is going to shut down one day. When it does, these characters, these rewards...they will be gone. Not only will no one else remember or care, you will have no tangible asset to use.

I like to play the game. I like to compete and try to improve. But it is just crazy to me...the concept of piloting, letting some stranger access your account, and especially paying someone else is just crazy to me

To me personally, it is like paying someone to go on your vacation for you, because you think they can take better pictures.

Vale84

DNA3000 wrote: »

Vale84 wrote: »

What i think is that once you spend thousands and thousands of money on this game just cause you can, it becomes unacceptable for anyone to not be at the top. That's pretty much it.

Alliances are getting rating penalties for cheating down in tier 12 from what I've heard. I'm hoping no one has spent thousands of dollars to get to tier 12.

Yes, and most of them are dealt with due to using mods. 95% of said penalties come from a member using mods, reason for which endless threads have been opened on here regarding a way to know who'se cheating.

In tier 1 tho the music is very different. There's no modding, but a lot of colluding.

Paying pilot
Paying lower allies to lose or leave nodes up
Paying a pilot working for both ally to log into the opponents logins and ban people during war
Logging an ex piloted/piloting member of another ally to prevent him from doing his lane
Paying a pilot to work for a lower ally in order to pilot it vs opponents challenging your place in ladder

This is what you deal with at top 10. Which is way different from tier 12. Where money matters, and money spent entitle players to think they CANT lose. Same cheating, different BS.

ESF

DNA3000 wrote: »

ESF wrote: »

It's bizarre to me in the regard that none of this is real. It's just a game, a mobile game, that is going to shut down one day. When it does, these characters, these rewards...they will be gone. Not only will no one else remember or care, you will have no tangible asset to use.

I like to play the game. I like to compete and try to improve. But it is just crazy to me...the concept of piloting, letting some stranger access your account, and especially paying someone else is just crazy to me

To me personally, it is like paying someone to go on your vacation for you, because you think they can take better pictures.

I'm pretty much an old man, anyway. I understand that times change and people change, but I started gaming in the original era where you played solo games and tried to put up your own high scores in the arcades, go back the next day to see if they were still up. I have never really gotten used to the concept of alliances, co-op play. I try it from time to time but really, I function best as a solo player and tend to gravitate toward games and modes that allow it

rwhack

Some people only post here about alleged cheating to see if kabam will punish other alliances so they can move up. Hey, there’s one in this thread.

Widen the stupid brackets. Make the steps less graduated. Cheating will go down.

Competition brings out the best and the worst in people.