Sounds like neither alliance did very well. Both struggled to explore and they chose to spend to keep exploring. Also seems like you all died just as much early on and chose to give up. Hard to say w/o a screen cap of the war stats
Let me make one thing VERY CLEAR on this post. Our team is very good. When I went into the AW map to review it - and saw what Heroes my team mates were coming up against, the only thing I thought was, "No F'g way. These guys BOUGHT these heroes." They had 87% diversity. - with SIX Infinity War Iron Man heroes - fully maxed out. 5 Four Star and 1 Five Star. Their 6 Bosses were a fully maxed 5 Star Domino, TWO Fully Maxed 5 Star IWIM, Medusa, Mephisto and Quake.
We are in GOLD 3 bracket.
You telling me that these weren't BOUGHT? Give me a break.
My guess - based upon number of revives I saw, along with our defender kills - these guys spent OVER 24,000 UNITS to win this war.
THE ALLIANCE WAR PROCESS IS BROKEN. IT IS ONLY DETERMINED BY "WHO WANTS TO SPEND THE MOST".
My guess - based upon number of revives I saw, along with our defender kills - these guys spent OVER 24,000 UNITS to win this war.
In principle, I think there are things that should be investigated to better balance war. However, you're tossing numbers around to inflate your case. I mean, oh my god twenty four thousand units sounds super high (and higher than the 21k you mention in your OP) but that's across 30 players. That's an average of only 800 units per player, which is actually an insignificant amount of units for many players, particularly higher tier alliances that are generally the big spenders. That's grindable in the arena for zero cash spent. So when you say they spent more money than you, that's possible, or its possible they just grind more units and potions than you and spent exactly nothing.
Spending happens everywhere. Right now there's someone out there saying the only reason you guys beat them is because you outspent them to get a better roster. Just like you're certain the other alliance outspent you to win, there are a lot of players out there just as certain that anyone with a strong roster must have paid cash for it. There's no such thing as a perfectly fair competition in this regard.
@DNA3000 "800 units per player, which is actually an insignificant amount of units for many players"
Wow man.... must be nice. 800 units is about a week's worth of Arena grind, at minimum. It isn't "insignificant". And just for reference, if you BOUGHT 800 units, that's $30 bucks. - Sure,... $30 bucks isn't that big of a deal,........ but for 30 people x (insert number of wars in season), you are talking 100's of 1,000's of units. Do the math.
So be honest, how much money have you spent on MCOC since you started playing?
800 units is about a week's worth of Arena grind, at minimum.
Not for an arena grinder shooting at milestones. An arena grinder actually grinding for units will at least get the 65 units from the 3* featured milestones, the 135 units from the 4* basic milestones, and the 135 units from the 4* featured milestones, plus some or all of the 135 units from the 5* featured, plus units from arena crystals, every 3 days. That's *at least* 400 units every three days, and it isn't hard for an arena grinder to get a thousand units a week, *just from arena grinding*. That doesn't count units that come from other sources.
I'm not saying everyone can put in the time to do that, only that many people can and even those that fall short are not necessarily spending lots of cash collectively on units they spend on potions or crystals. You can't just look at units spent and convert to cash, even if your calculator can.
For reference, here's Brian Grant describing how he used to farm on the order of 7000 units a month, while spending zero cash:
That's not only while spending zero cash, that's using a roster that itself cost zero cash, as he is a 100% free to play player. 800 units spent in a single war isn't a large amount for a player at that activity level.
This is just half of the story. May be you gave 70 kills to first nodes and just sat there while the other team continued exploring. You should have won this war if u were better fighters
How can you say it's pay to win when the whole reason of attack bonus is to prevent alliances like that from winning? If they kept dying and reviving they forfeit that bonus - giving you space to win.
And if you say your diversity was better too, then don't complain it's pay to win when all they did is clear their BG's and you didn't.
There are many Free to Play players in platinum bracket, which is like top 0.2% of all alliances. May be the top 0.1% wars are wallet warriors but then again some use only the in-game resources which is pretty legit strat in any game.
How can you SAY that? Dude.......... I have sat in my chair and WATCHED people burn through 1500 units trying to take down heroes in our wars. We are in GOLD 3.
I'm not F2P player, and im not a heavy arena grinder.
I seem to be able to get 800 units from a lucky couple of hours of grinding in one night, with good arena crystal pulls. Ive continued to rank a few 4* to finish some synergy teams for more points. AW are SPEND TO WIN, but it isnt about the biggest wallet. sometimes the most time spent in game.
I'm confused. There is a lot happening here. First off why does everyone keep throwing down arena like it's some kind of fix all. Arena sucks only people with nothing going on have the time to get anything out of it. Arena is not the answer to anything.
Second @Myradral it sucks man, but the more skilled alliance won. In order for them to win they had to die less to more fights. Yes, they may have died a lot to some fights, but the scoring is set up to allow the overall best team to win. Basically, you can carry one guy who sucks because he can only lose so many points, or you can use all your items on a boss fight because only the first 3 deaths matter.
They could remove pots from AW, but that wont happen. They could increase the amount of costly deaths you can have from 3 to anything else, but I don't think that helps much either.
It sounds like your issue is money, but really it seems like there was no amount of money you could have paid to win this war, so I'm confused as to what is the main issue.
I would never spend 20,000+ units on a war. I would do the math to see if a win was possible way before that. Some teams in your bracket are probably dying a lot on purpose to give you a false sense of victory and abusing this mechanic.
@Primmer79 Stop lying. You can't grind 800 units in 2 hours.
And AW is SPEND TO WIN............. most definitely.
I apologize, 'couple' was more of an approximation than "in two hours" and I did mean actual playtime, not within 2 hours of real time.
I feel like I can get much more than 1000 in a week is my main point. I spent 1000 on one war and was back up to 1000 within a few days, and I don't sit grinding arena. My weakness is spending units on crystals like heimdall.
Arena sucks, I hate it. But its been paying off for me so I don't have to spend money.
(Tier 3, Plat 3 alliance, by the way. I've seen other players do what you mention. my point is you can be a competitive F2P)
@Riegel "Second @Myradral it sucks man, but the more skilled alliance won. In order for them to win they had to die less to more fights. "
Nope. Did you read my original post?
Dude my point is simply that they bought the win. Plain and simple. If you don't understand that, well... I can't help ya.
I did read it. I'm explain to you how you're wrong and you don't understand it. They died less over all 150 fights and more on single fights. This benefits them because there is a 3 death penalty cap. If you die more than 3 times to any node it wont hurt you point wise. That's what they did and that's how they won. You could have spent 100,000 units and still lost.
It’s not just alliance war it’s end game in general if you are an end game play kabam makes this game miserable for you very little reward fo maximum effort
We had more points on every single statistic except exploration and boss kills.
They spent 20-24,000 units to revive their team to progress. We didn't.
THAT is why they won.
Oh you didn't specify that you didn't finish the map in OP... That's simple they did more than you. If they want to spend to win they have that ability.
They may not have been able to do as good as you all with the same amount of items, but Kabam needs a way to make money, or there is no game.
We had more points on every single statistic except exploration and boss kills.
They spent 20-24,000 units to revive their team to progress. We didn't.
THAT is why they won.
that's why they won though. Boss kills and exploration are a huge part to the game. I don't spend any units on war, rather, prepare for war by buying revives with loyalty, and glory. I buy heals from there too. with 100 kills or whatever it would be, it can seriously just be 10 team revives per player. that's not 20-24000 units or whatever. that can be 70,000 loyalty. but even if they are putting up that kind of money, the whole idea is to explore and take the boss. that's how you get points. In one of your comments you state that you guys are "VERY" good, but being very good means you take the boss down every time.
I don't disagree with you though in that the best team is the one who uses the most (and in the highest tiers the best ones - meaning using the best revives vs the lowest ones) but all you can do is do your best and clear the board.
It also might be important to note here, that you may have won those other categories because you didn't clear your board. It can easily look like you're the better team if you don't push yourself to beating the boss. It's always better to explore more, and make attempts at the next guy rather than not fighting the next person at all. best of luck
We're a free alliance and in Gold 2 at the moment. i can assure you @Myradral , money is not the only factor that can win you wars. If your ppl are really good, like real good, you can clear maps at gold 3 level with ease.
Gold 3 would mean you are in Tier 11-14, which in all honestly is (can be) fairly easy, no matter the defense. Domino / IMIW matter very little when there are no nodes to support them. If you tell me you're somewhere in Tier 8 or 9, then what are you doing in Gold 3?
How can an alliance have 5/65 Domino, IMIW, Mephisto, medusa and Quake and be in Gold 3? Were they 4/55 bosses? What is the alliance Code/Name that you fought?
Also, you not posting any proof of how / why the other alliance won just does not help the case. What was your boss that they other alliance had to go through 156 deaths? I mean in gold 3 you are dying 71 times, that's a lot of deaths, avg of 2.4 deaths per person, which means your entire alliance died without clearing the map and not even reaching the boss.
(Sorry if there are too many assumptions here, a screenshot would clear a lot of the picture)
Well how u loose with such better def kills is prob cuz of more totalt count of points together.
exploration
Bonus Att
def eft
Diversity.
Boss kill
So no its not about who got the biggest wall.. Why ? cuz lets say both ally clera 100%, same defender kills, same diversity its op to how good / skilled u are on all nodes..
Lets say one of the miniboss node or boss u ally u died like 20 times.. thats only 1 full attack bonus lost 240 points (80 pr attemp max 3 koed).. compare to if the entire map all ur member died in total 20 times but to 20 diff nodes.. means lost in points 20 x 80 points = 1600 points lost in total.
Lol, I'm in tier 1 master bracket and I've honestly haven't spent units on war besides switching my masteries around depending on the fight, all the potions and revives I get are from the glory store and Alliance Milestones. You can calculate what they spent unit wise and turn it into money, but did you ever consider you can buy revives and potions with glory/loyalty? Also alliance quest bundle is available.
I know you can't buy Lvl 3 team revive, and Lvl 4 team potions, Although Lvl 3 for each randomly appear in the loyalty store. This also doesn't mean every single player went ahead and used the same items.
In masters it's about who dies the least. The final defender kills range from 4-15 deaths. I honestly don't see the profit for a gold alliance to spend that many units just to clear a war, that's ridiculous. Gold 1 ! Lol. Better off cutting your ties and saving the units/items for the next war.
Comments
Let me make one thing VERY CLEAR on this post. Our team is very good. When I went into the AW map to review it - and saw what Heroes my team mates were coming up against, the only thing I thought was, "No F'g way. These guys BOUGHT these heroes." They had 87% diversity. - with SIX Infinity War Iron Man heroes - fully maxed out. 5 Four Star and 1 Five Star. Their 6 Bosses were a fully maxed 5 Star Domino, TWO Fully Maxed 5 Star IWIM, Medusa, Mephisto and Quake.
We are in GOLD 3 bracket.
You telling me that these weren't BOUGHT? Give me a break.
My guess - based upon number of revives I saw, along with our defender kills - these guys spent OVER 24,000 UNITS to win this war.
THE ALLIANCE WAR PROCESS IS BROKEN. IT IS ONLY DETERMINED BY "WHO WANTS TO SPEND THE MOST".
In principle, I think there are things that should be investigated to better balance war. However, you're tossing numbers around to inflate your case. I mean, oh my god twenty four thousand units sounds super high (and higher than the 21k you mention in your OP) but that's across 30 players. That's an average of only 800 units per player, which is actually an insignificant amount of units for many players, particularly higher tier alliances that are generally the big spenders. That's grindable in the arena for zero cash spent. So when you say they spent more money than you, that's possible, or its possible they just grind more units and potions than you and spent exactly nothing.
Spending happens everywhere. Right now there's someone out there saying the only reason you guys beat them is because you outspent them to get a better roster. Just like you're certain the other alliance outspent you to win, there are a lot of players out there just as certain that anyone with a strong roster must have paid cash for it. There's no such thing as a perfectly fair competition in this regard.
Wow man.... must be nice. 800 units is about a week's worth of Arena grind, at minimum. It isn't "insignificant". And just for reference, if you BOUGHT 800 units, that's $30 bucks. - Sure,... $30 bucks isn't that big of a deal,........ but for 30 people x (insert number of wars in season), you are talking 100's of 1,000's of units. Do the math.
So be honest, how much money have you spent on MCOC since you started playing?
Not for an arena grinder shooting at milestones. An arena grinder actually grinding for units will at least get the 65 units from the 3* featured milestones, the 135 units from the 4* basic milestones, and the 135 units from the 4* featured milestones, plus some or all of the 135 units from the 5* featured, plus units from arena crystals, every 3 days. That's *at least* 400 units every three days, and it isn't hard for an arena grinder to get a thousand units a week, *just from arena grinding*. That doesn't count units that come from other sources.
I'm not saying everyone can put in the time to do that, only that many people can and even those that fall short are not necessarily spending lots of cash collectively on units they spend on potions or crystals. You can't just look at units spent and convert to cash, even if your calculator can.
For reference, here's Brian Grant describing how he used to farm on the order of 7000 units a month, while spending zero cash:
That's not only while spending zero cash, that's using a roster that itself cost zero cash, as he is a 100% free to play player. 800 units spent in a single war isn't a large amount for a player at that activity level.
And if you say your diversity was better too, then don't complain it's pay to win when all they did is clear their BG's and you didn't.
DUH. @DNA3000
But then, it would be cheaper to get a part-time job, work 3 hours at $10/hour - and then just BUY 1350 units.
DUH #2 @DNA3000
How can you SAY that? Dude.......... I have sat in my chair and WATCHED people burn through 1500 units trying to take down heroes in our wars. We are in GOLD 3.
Don't minimize this. This is a HUGE problem.
I'm not F2P player, and im not a heavy arena grinder.
I seem to be able to get 800 units from a lucky couple of hours of grinding in one night, with good arena crystal pulls. Ive continued to rank a few 4* to finish some synergy teams for more points. AW are SPEND TO WIN, but it isnt about the biggest wallet. sometimes the most time spent in game.
And AW is SPEND TO WIN............. most definitely.
Second @Myradral it sucks man, but the more skilled alliance won. In order for them to win they had to die less to more fights. Yes, they may have died a lot to some fights, but the scoring is set up to allow the overall best team to win. Basically, you can carry one guy who sucks because he can only lose so many points, or you can use all your items on a boss fight because only the first 3 deaths matter.
They could remove pots from AW, but that wont happen. They could increase the amount of costly deaths you can have from 3 to anything else, but I don't think that helps much either.
It sounds like your issue is money, but really it seems like there was no amount of money you could have paid to win this war, so I'm confused as to what is the main issue.
I would never spend 20,000+ units on a war. I would do the math to see if a win was possible way before that. Some teams in your bracket are probably dying a lot on purpose to give you a false sense of victory and abusing this mechanic.
You didn't so you lost.
Nope. Did you read my original post?
Dude my point is simply that they bought the win. Plain and simple. If you don't understand that, well... I can't help ya.
I apologize, 'couple' was more of an approximation than "in two hours" and I did mean actual playtime, not within 2 hours of real time.
I feel like I can get much more than 1000 in a week is my main point. I spent 1000 on one war and was back up to 1000 within a few days, and I don't sit grinding arena. My weakness is spending units on crystals like heimdall.
Arena sucks, I hate it. But its been paying off for me so I don't have to spend money.
(Tier 3, Plat 3 alliance, by the way. I've seen other players do what you mention. my point is you can be a competitive F2P)
Sigh... Like I said, nevermind.
I did read it. I'm explain to you how you're wrong and you don't understand it. They died less over all 150 fights and more on single fights. This benefits them because there is a 3 death penalty cap. If you die more than 3 times to any node it wont hurt you point wise. That's what they did and that's how they won. You could have spent 100,000 units and still lost.
We had more points on every single statistic except exploration and boss kills.
They spent 20-24,000 units to revive their team to progress. We didn't.
THAT is why they won.
Oh you didn't specify that you didn't finish the map in OP... That's simple they did more than you. If they want to spend to win they have that ability.
They may not have been able to do as good as you all with the same amount of items, but Kabam needs a way to make money, or there is no game.
that's why they won though. Boss kills and exploration are a huge part to the game. I don't spend any units on war, rather, prepare for war by buying revives with loyalty, and glory. I buy heals from there too. with 100 kills or whatever it would be, it can seriously just be 10 team revives per player. that's not 20-24000 units or whatever. that can be 70,000 loyalty. but even if they are putting up that kind of money, the whole idea is to explore and take the boss. that's how you get points. In one of your comments you state that you guys are "VERY" good, but being very good means you take the boss down every time.
I don't disagree with you though in that the best team is the one who uses the most (and in the highest tiers the best ones - meaning using the best revives vs the lowest ones) but all you can do is do your best and clear the board.
It also might be important to note here, that you may have won those other categories because you didn't clear your board. It can easily look like you're the better team if you don't push yourself to beating the boss. It's always better to explore more, and make attempts at the next guy rather than not fighting the next person at all. best of luck
Gold 3 would mean you are in Tier 11-14, which in all honestly is (can be) fairly easy, no matter the defense. Domino / IMIW matter very little when there are no nodes to support them. If you tell me you're somewhere in Tier 8 or 9, then what are you doing in Gold 3?
How can an alliance have 5/65 Domino, IMIW, Mephisto, medusa and Quake and be in Gold 3? Were they 4/55 bosses? What is the alliance Code/Name that you fought?
Also, you not posting any proof of how / why the other alliance won just does not help the case. What was your boss that they other alliance had to go through 156 deaths? I mean in gold 3 you are dying 71 times, that's a lot of deaths, avg of 2.4 deaths per person, which means your entire alliance died without clearing the map and not even reaching the boss.
(Sorry if there are too many assumptions here, a screenshot would clear a lot of the picture)
exploration
Bonus Att
def eft
Diversity.
Boss kill
So no its not about who got the biggest wall.. Why ? cuz lets say both ally clera 100%, same defender kills, same diversity its op to how good / skilled u are on all nodes..
Lets say one of the miniboss node or boss u ally u died like 20 times.. thats only 1 full attack bonus lost 240 points (80 pr attemp max 3 koed).. compare to if the entire map all ur member died in total 20 times but to 20 diff nodes.. means lost in points 20 x 80 points = 1600 points lost in total.
I know you can't buy Lvl 3 team revive, and Lvl 4 team potions, Although Lvl 3 for each randomly appear in the loyalty store. This also doesn't mean every single player went ahead and used the same items.
In masters it's about who dies the least. The final defender kills range from 4-15 deaths. I honestly don't see the profit for a gold alliance to spend that many units just to clear a war, that's ridiculous. Gold 1 ! Lol. Better off cutting your ties and saving the units/items for the next war.