Omega Red 90% bleed reduction bugged?

Jeramy6815

I was testing OR out in AQ and his bleed from MS seems way off compared to what it should be. These pics are the same Mini on the same day. This would mean her bleed would be over 2k right? Can anyone help me with the math?

Kayne34

I noticed the same thing but did not have a reference. Appreciate you posting.

Jeramy6815

Knowing Kabam it’s only 90% of the base bleed. Include all the node boost and it goes on top and not 90% reduced

ESF

Huh. Interesting

Epsilon3

Not to sound noobish but can anyone cross-confirm with beast as well as a third champ that has no bleed reduction?

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Jeramy6815

Beast had a shortened bleed timer not bleed reduction

Eb0ny-O-M4w

Jeramy6815 wrote: »

Beast had a shortened bleed timer not bleed reduction

He has both actually

Karuseus

Beast reduction is working fine for me
As for omega red im not sure...

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Imran

zeezee57 wrote: »

I brought him and thought the exact same thing, thought maybe I just expected more than i should. He bled out and died much much quicker than I thought he would. I'm really curious to see a mod response here because MS mini boss on map 5 is one of the main places I planned to use him and he died to her bleed like any one else does.

Use his l1 and l3 against ms. OR won't died I hope. Also I thought bleed can be regeneration node for omega with will power. With calculation the bleed should be 52 per tick for omega red. It's bugged.

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Kabam Zibiit

Hey there everyone, we've passed along this info to the rest of the team so that they can look into it. We'll update everyone as soon as we have an update.

Kabam Zibiit

Hey there, after some more thorough examination, we haven't found any issues with this interaction. to clear up some confusion, what is happening is that Omega Red reduces the base damage of the Bleed before the Bleed is enhanced by the nodes. This is the same way that other Champs with Bleed damage reduction function as well.

Maximus_Spankerson

I am sorry, but that just makes no sense.
Are you saying that armor and resistances reduce base damage before its enhanced by nodes? Is that how The Thing’s safe guard works? I don’t think so. Bleed damage is bleed damage. This must be fixed

Kabam Zibiit wrote: »

Hey there, after some more thorough examination, we haven't found any issues with this interaction. to clear up some confusion, what is happening is that Omega Red reduces the base damage of the Bleed before the Bleed is enhanced by the nodes. This is the same way that other Champs with Bleed damage reduction function as well.

Bidzy7

I agree, i think this is not working correctly

OR ability is to reduce bleed damage by 90%, this value shouldn't be affected.
Just like the mastery Coagulate which makes your champion take 30% less damage from bleeds
neither of these have any indication that they're effectiveness can be decreased.
Therefore i would expect them to do as they say.
The node is enhancing the bleed not reducing my resistance to bleed ( How i see it)

Someone pointed out this is working fine for beast but i can't think of any other champs to test this with. As majority either shrug off or reduce the duration.

Now if what you are saying is true in regards to this reduction only being applied to the base bleed then why is it not working like that for the rest of the game. When you get a bleed from a champ with increased attack, the reduction is not applied only on the bleed damage from the base attack but by the 'enhanced' bleed damage from the increased attack node. I also doubt the enhanced critical rating and damage is being ignored by armor or crit reducing abilities

I just think its a cop out because maybe the way the node is coded you don't want to go back.
I believe whats happening is Omega Red gets a bleed he reduces it by 90%, The enhanced bleed node is then calculated after this which is why we get the higher bleed damage as opposed to the enhanced bleed being calculated then applied then OR should reduce that damage.

Lormif

Bidzy7 said:

I agree, i think this is not working correctly

OR ability is to reduce bleed damage by 90%, this value shouldn't be affected.
Just like the mastery Coagulate which makes your champion take 30% less damage from bleeds
neither of these have any indication that they're effectiveness can be decreased.
Therefore i would expect them to do as they say.
The node is enhancing the bleed not reducing my resistance to bleed ( How i see it)

Someone pointed out this is working fine for beast but i can't think of any other champs to test this with. As majority either shrug off or reduce the duration.

Now if what you are saying is true in regards to this reduction only being applied to the base bleed then why is it not working like that for the rest of the game. When you get a bleed from a champ with increased attack, the reduction is not applied only on the bleed damage from the base attack but by the 'enhanced' bleed damage from the increased attack node. I also doubt the enhanced critical rating and damage is being ignored by armor or crit reducing abilities

I just think its a cop out because maybe the way the node is coded you don't want to go back.
I believe whats happening is Omega Red gets a bleed he reduces it by 90%, The enhanced bleed node is then calculated after this which is why we get the higher bleed damage as opposed to the enhanced bleed being calculated then applied then OR should reduce that damage.

A champion that increases his own bleed is not the same as a node that enhances bleed.

JosephPoerio

Kabam Zibiit said:

Hey there, after some more thorough examination, we haven't found any issues with this interaction. to clear up some confusion, what is happening is that Omega Red reduces the base damage of the Bleed before the Bleed is enhanced by the nodes. This is the same way that other Champs with Bleed damage reduction function as well.

Almost every defender in the game has some type of damage enhancing node. Are you saying this renders all the champions with resistance useless? What’s the point then? Why have any resistance at all if the end result is the same? Kabam needs to get it together, this game seems to be moving in the wrong direction. @Kabam Zibiit

Bidzy7

Lormif said:

A champion that increases his own bleed is not the same as a node that enhances bleed.

well nodes also increase attack which in turn increase bleed damage. OR doesn't reduce just the base bleed in this situation. The difference is in the mechanics. Enhanced Bleed nodes allow for a bleed damage to be increased significantly without inflating the attack of a champion to a crazy amount, but because of this it is applied after the bleed is inflicted to enhance the bleed by x amount. This is why OR resistances are not affecting the extra x amount.


a node which enhances bleed is not the same as reducing bleed resistance, which is what is happening

Ordalca

I'd say it's more that the enhanced bleed is dealing +40%, while OR is taking -90%. They are adding them together, the same way it adds coagulate's 10% to OR's 90% to make him take no damage.

The choice is therefore have this enhanced bleed cause the extra damage (90+10-40 = 60% reduction), or have coagulate not make OR take no bleed damage (90+10%*10% = 91% reduction)

BenQcSlayer

Bidzy7 said:

I agree, i think this is not working correctly

OR ability is to reduce bleed damage by 90%, this value shouldn't be affected.
Just like the mastery Coagulate which makes your champion take 30% less damage from bleeds
neither of these have any indication that they're effectiveness can be decreased.
Therefore i would expect them to do as they say.
The node is enhancing the bleed not reducing my resistance to bleed ( How i see it)

Someone pointed out this is working fine for beast but i can't think of any other champs to test this with. As majority either shrug off or reduce the duration.

Now if what you are saying is true in regards to this reduction only being applied to the base bleed then why is it not working like that for the rest of the game. When you get a bleed from a champ with increased attack, the reduction is not applied only on the bleed damage from the base attack but by the 'enhanced' bleed damage from the increased attack node. I also doubt the enhanced critical rating and damage is being ignored by armor or crit reducing abilities

I just think its a cop out because maybe the way the node is coded you don't want to go back.
I believe whats happening is Omega Red gets a bleed he reduces it by 90%, The enhanced bleed node is then calculated after this which is why we get the higher bleed damage as opposed to the enhanced bleed being calculated then applied then OR should reduce that damage.

My experience is that your argument is too smart for the department who will read your post...

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bloodyCain

Can someone explain to me how is bleed damage calculated?

What do you mean by "base damage of the bleed" said by KABAM?

Does it mean the actual Morningstar's base bleed damage which is 1150.5 over 5 seconds?

Doesn't the bleed damage increases due to the attack boost node too? I'm confused.

Cranky_Trump

If base bleed is 1150, 1150*1.4*0.9 should only be about 150 or so damage

bloodyCain

Let's do the math

We all know any DoT timer that we see on the screen is per 0.5 second or we all call it 'per tick'.

Morningstar's bleed last for 5 seconds.

So, 198 x 2 x 5 = 1980 bleed damage total.

@Kabam Zibiit said there's a 40% enhanced bleed after Omega Red reduces the base bleed damage. (I seriously have no idea what does he mean by 'base bleed damage')

Anyway, let's make ? = Original bleed damage that Omega takes before 40% enhanced bleed node.

1.4 x ? = 1980
? = 1414.29

Now I don't know where to go from here.
If 1414.29 is the 10% bleed damage taken by Omega, then Morningstar's original bleed damage would be 14,143 which is ridiculous!

@Kabam Zibiit care to explain the math here? Because I really feel like something is off. It's suspicious.

MMCskippy

Do we even want to chuck into the OR discussion how the spores on the defender fall off SO quickly compared to how the spores fall of us when we're attacking OR?

If I dex quick, the defender loses anywhere from 1-4 spores when the dex processes. I'm compiling some video comparisons. This is a game mechanic that would only be node affected by ability accuracy modification nodes, right?

bloodyCain

MMCskippy said:

Do we even want to chuck into the OR discussion how the spores on the defender fall off SO quickly compared to how the spores fall of us when we're attacking OR?

If I dex quick, the defender loses anywhere from 1-4 spores when the dex processes. I'm compiling some video comparisons. This is a game mechanic that would only be node affected by ability accuracy modification nodes, right?

Can't wait to see that video.

Bidzy7

Bump

This still needs to be revisited and fixed.


Also anyone who has any points in coagulate, can you verify how that mastery works with enhanced bleed nodes. i.e. is this mastery only applied to the base bleed too.

Lormif

bloodyCain said:

Can someone explain to me how is bleed damage calculated?

What do you mean by "base damage of the bleed" said by KABAM?

Does it mean the actual Morningstar's base bleed damage which is 1150.5 over 5 seconds?

Doesn't the bleed damage increases due to the attack boost node too? I'm confused.

They have stated it in the past, "base damage"is the bleed damage before the node node. The damage from the node is then added after the lowering

Bidzy7 said:

Bump

This still needs to be revisited and fixed.


Also anyone who has any points in coagulate, can you verify how that mastery works with enhanced bleed nodes. i.e. is this mastery only applied to the base bleed too.

already done and mods answered in this very same post.

Bidzy7

@Lormif

you continue to regurgitate the same response without reading or addressing what people have stated in the thread.
Honestly anyone who posted in this thread and is trying to discuss this topic is fully aware of what the mods have said in this post.

Since you like to keep commenting, maybe you can explain how a "enhanced bleed" means a reduction in resistance ?

The node doesn't say
" A Players resistance to bleed is reduced by 40%"

Care to explain what a base bleed is, seeing as enhanced attack nodes are also increasing the bleed damage.
Also why is this this the only resistance that applies to base bleed only ?

we have enhanced armor, Enhanced Crit, Enhanced Crit damage. You telling me mechanics like crit resistence, armor, block proficiency, block penetration, armor penetration all are applied to the base values of each ?



if your response is going to be "because the mods have said that how it is working" then please refrain from responding unless you are going to add any value to the discussion.