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IMPOSSIBLE to beat matchup!

2

Comments

  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 6,272 ★★★★★



    RoninMan said:

    Aryl said:

    RoninMan said:

    Wow. Why is everyone so riled up by this?

    - Yes I know how AEGIS works.
    - Yes I have this lane since past few seasons now atleast.
    - Yes I'm hindsight I took a risk bringing in Corvus where I had other better options available.
    - No this post is not about my judgement, or knowledge of the champs or nodes or the game

    This post is about 1 thing which is clearly stated In the title. IMPOSSIBLE MATCHUP!

    Should it be like this?? Is this not broken?? As fas as I feel, there shouldnt be any matchup in the game where no matter how small a chance, high penalty or High skill needed to overcome it, it should be doable.

    You’re the one riled up. I picture you standing on the chair shouting at your phone with all the capitalized words and punctuation marks you’re using. Nobody that has commented is riled up. Just telling you not to use Corvus or Elektra on hidden nodes. It’s a piece of advice you can take or leave. Oh and unless you’re really good with Ghost and can consistently parry stun Maw and get fury, I would stay away from using her on hidden nodes too.
    I think people are looking at the wrong things and putting em-PHAS-sis on the wrong syl-LAB-le.

    OP gets it. He had a derp moment in war, but it got him thinking... should match-ups like this exist in the game? Aka, impossible fights.
    Yes it should exist. It’s a strategic placement that counters 2 champs (3 if you want to include Ghost but I’ve seen her deal with him) out of 140ish. Now if it was impossible for 137/140 champs it might warrant changing. But no, making it impossible for 2 champs is not game breaking.
    By that logic, how do you explain the recent changes made by kabam where Max Sig Namor was 1 shotting AQ Thanos with that node on him which reflects any damage done? That was just 1 champ which had this ability, and only 1 node interaction which 'broke' the fight. Isn't this the same thing in that essence. A broken fight with this node?
    There's a difference in a node being broken to allow for a 1 shot on a boss vs a defender who counters 1 particular champ in the game well. Huge difference.
  • danielmathdanielmath Posts: 1,658 ★★★★
    I believe that in theory, it's POSSIBLE. You'd have to get knocked down and immediately get off a heavy, do that twice, then light intercept 1 hit combos till you got sp3. Do that a few times. Of course nobody could do it, but in theory and if given a million chances, the best player *could* do it, maybe.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,596 Guardian

    Aryl said:

    ^^^ No

    AQ is fundamentally different than AW.

    I'm talking about any fight in the game. Wether be AQ or AW. Point im trying to make is, this fight is broken.
    What's reasonable for different game modes isn't the same. So what might be unacceptable in one part of the game might be reasonable or even desirable in other parts. You seem to be implying that all parts of the game should be judged identically, so if a fight is "broken" by your definition anywhere, it would be broken everywhere. But I don't think this is a good principle to apply to the game. Otherwise, the entire game is just different arrangements of the same fights.

    The fundamental difference between PvE content and PvP content, which AW is, is that in PvE content you are balancing the difficulty of the content with the strength of the players and the rewards that are generated. There are a lot of variables to consider when it comes to adjusting the content to match the rewards that are handed out.

    In PvP, outside of the rare tie, there is always one winner and one loser. The amount of rewards that are handed out are exactly the same every time. The primary concern is whether the environment the PvP gameplay is played out within is reasonable to determine the winner. Every fight in an AW war is a move-countermove between opponents. A move that has no counter is potentially a problem. But a move that has counters generally available isn't, regardless of the preferences of both sides. If a player fails to respond logically, they could find themselves unable to rectify that decision. In PvP, that just means the other side wins that round.

    In PvE, it is usually the case that there should always be a way to win in theory, because you're playing against the computer. But in PvP, there's no rule that says no matter what the attacker does they should always have a chance to win. That would dramatically slant AW towards the attackers.
  • GluteusMaximusGluteusMaximus Posts: 881 ★★★

    Wow. Why is everyone so riled up by this?

    - Yes I know how AEGIS works.
    - Yes I have this lane since past few seasons now atleast.
    - Yes In hindsight I took a risk bringing in Corvus where I had other better options available.
    - No this post is not about my judgement, or knowledge of the champs or nodes or the game

    This post is about 1 thing which is clearly stated In the title. IMPOSSIBLE MATCHUP!

    Should it be like this?? Is this not broken?? As far as I feel, there shouldnt be any matchup in the game where no matter how small a chance, high penalty or High skill needed to overcome it, it should be doable.

    sooooooo should we also get rid of cable/omega red because we used our x23? or bought a mystic to a human torch fight? i could go on...
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 818 ★★★

    Wow. Why is everyone so riled up by this?

    - Yes I know how AEGIS works.
    - Yes I have this lane since past few seasons now atleast.
    - Yes In hindsight I took a risk bringing in Corvus where I had other better options available.
    - No this post is not about my judgement, or knowledge of the champs or nodes or the game

    This post is about 1 thing which is clearly stated In the title. IMPOSSIBLE MATCHUP!

    Should it be like this?? Is this not broken?? As far as I feel, there shouldnt be any matchup in the game where no matter how small a chance, high penalty or High skill needed to overcome it, it should be doable.

    sooooooo should we also get rid of cable/omega red because we used our x23? or bought a mystic to a human torch fight? i could go on...
    The Corvus-Maw matchup is by a mile the most lopsided in the game. OP is asking if there should be matches in the game skewed so much towards 1 side. My feeling is no. The other matchups you mentioned you can at least attack them/take your expected lumps/win after some revives, with the Corvus-Maw match, you can’t even do that outside of ridiculously contrived scenarios like 1 star Maw vs 5 star Corvus and only use light attacks.
  • GraydroxGraydrox Posts: 153

    So I recently faced a hidden AEGIS node in AW and practically ran into the 1 fight which was IMPOSSIBLE to beat. To my misfortune there was Ebony Maw and I had unluckily went in with Corvus Glaive. R.I.P.

    This interaction made me think how broken this matchup still is, and specially if you add AEGIS this fight is impossible. This got me thinking, is there ANY other matchup in the game between 2 champions which is this much broken??

    Should it be this way??!

    Not positive of this because so haven't tried it but Corvus does lose his glaive charges temporarily when hit by a heavy attack. So couldn't you technically take a heavy attack and then hit him with a heavy while the glaive charges are down? Then you could hit him with a special 3.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,596 Guardian
    Graydrox said:

    So I recently faced a hidden AEGIS node in AW and practically ran into the 1 fight which was IMPOSSIBLE to beat. To my misfortune there was Ebony Maw and I had unluckily went in with Corvus Glaive. R.I.P.

    This interaction made me think how broken this matchup still is, and specially if you add AEGIS this fight is impossible. This got me thinking, is there ANY other matchup in the game between 2 champions which is this much broken??

    Should it be this way??!

    Not positive of this because so haven't tried it but Corvus does lose his glaive charges temporarily when hit by a heavy attack. So couldn't you technically take a heavy attack and then hit him with a heavy while the glaive charges are down? Then you could hit him with a special 3.
    If we're talking what's possible, not what human beings could do, then there's some possibilities. Taking a heavy will give you a three second window, but you'd be taking a heavy to the face. An Invuln boost would theoretically protect you for a while, but that's not enough. However, if you can get in enough attacks during your three second openings you could expend all your glaive charges. That would then give you fifty seconds of non-crit offense. It is Ebony Maw, so not the biggest bag of health. With enough boosts and perfect play, this might be possible.
  • GOTGGOTG Posts: 85
    edited October 8
    Some guys try too hard to look cool, but they are not, they are just ordinary as everyone. OP has a valid point. You cant say for sure that you will never make mistake in wars.
  • GamerGamer Posts: 4,562 ★★★★
    Also everyone with a presion change don’t go with covus.
  • booscka2536booscka2536 Posts: 122
    WOW the guys was wondering about other match up the 1 champ cant beat another . he unfortunately wrote it wromg an it wemt left really quickly lol .
  • TehsigzorzTehsigzorz Posts: 727 ★★★
    I usually advise against bringing in corvus and ghost against hidden nodes due to mr.sinister and maw but I agree that there shouldnt be any impossible matchups in the game. Just seems like a lazy way to control power creep.
  • GraydroxGraydrox Posts: 153
    DNA3000 said:

    Graydrox said:

    So I recently faced a hidden AEGIS node in AW and practically ran into the 1 fight which was IMPOSSIBLE to beat. To my misfortune there was Ebony Maw and I had unluckily went in with Corvus Glaive. R.I.P.

    This interaction made me think how broken this matchup still is, and specially if you add AEGIS this fight is impossible. This got me thinking, is there ANY other matchup in the game between 2 champions which is this much broken??

    Should it be this way??!

    Not positive of this because so haven't tried it but Corvus does lose his glaive charges temporarily when hit by a heavy attack. So couldn't you technically take a heavy attack and then hit him with a heavy while the glaive charges are down? Then you could hit him with a special 3.
    If we're talking what's possible, not what human beings could do, then there's some possibilities. Taking a heavy will give you a three second window, but you'd be taking a heavy to the face. An Invuln boost would theoretically protect you for a while, but that's not enough. However, if you can get in enough attacks during your three second openings you could expend all your glaive charges. That would then give you fifty seconds of non-crit offense. It is Ebony Maw, so not the biggest bag of health. With enough boosts and perfect play, this might be possible.
    What I'm saying is: you take the heavy then you heavy attack back. Your glaive charges won't be active so for a short moment you can kill the aegis. THEN you build up power through whatever means and hit him with a special 3. The special 3 will hit him no matter what.

    That doesn't sound that impossible to me.
  • TehsigzorzTehsigzorz Posts: 727 ★★★
    Graydrox said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Graydrox said:

    So I recently faced a hidden AEGIS node in AW and practically ran into the 1 fight which was IMPOSSIBLE to beat. To my misfortune there was Ebony Maw and I had unluckily went in with Corvus Glaive. R.I.P.

    This interaction made me think how broken this matchup still is, and specially if you add AEGIS this fight is impossible. This got me thinking, is there ANY other matchup in the game between 2 champions which is this much broken??

    Should it be this way??!

    Not positive of this because so haven't tried it but Corvus does lose his glaive charges temporarily when hit by a heavy attack. So couldn't you technically take a heavy attack and then hit him with a heavy while the glaive charges are down? Then you could hit him with a special 3.
    If we're talking what's possible, not what human beings could do, then there's some possibilities. Taking a heavy will give you a three second window, but you'd be taking a heavy to the face. An Invuln boost would theoretically protect you for a while, but that's not enough. However, if you can get in enough attacks during your three second openings you could expend all your glaive charges. That would then give you fifty seconds of non-crit offense. It is Ebony Maw, so not the biggest bag of health. With enough boosts and perfect play, this might be possible.
    What I'm saying is: you take the heavy then you heavy attack back. Your glaive charges won't be active so for a short moment you can kill the aegis. THEN you build up power through whatever means and hit him with a special 3. The special 3 will hit him no matter what.

    That doesn't sound that impossible to me.
    Thats extremely impractical and if you are in a high tier alliance war then the huge dmg of opponents will kill you off
  • KalantakKalantak Posts: 582 ★★★
    i know u went in blind but just saying WASP can counter all AEGIS nodes ,ebony would b cake infact, no focus thing for him no miss and wasp cant b missed against ebony anyway, wasp can even get anihilus if u can intercept well,
  • BabafrigoBabafrigo Posts: 33
    RoninMan said:

    Wasp does great against that node. Her passive stun on her combo makes landing heavies against Maw, Rogue, and Mordo a piece of cake.

    Wouldn’t Wasp fail on her heavy since they’re guaranteed crits? I don’t know about that interaction 100% just curious.
    Science champs have class advantage to Ebony Maw, thats why Wasp cant miss.
  • Lvernon15Lvernon15 Posts: 3,646 ★★★★★
    That’s simply good placement imo, they predicted people might go in with Corvus and put his hardest counter there
  • GraydroxGraydrox Posts: 153

    Graydrox said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Graydrox said:

    So I recently faced a hidden AEGIS node in AW and practically ran into the 1 fight which was IMPOSSIBLE to beat. To my misfortune there was Ebony Maw and I had unluckily went in with Corvus Glaive. R.I.P.

    This interaction made me think how broken this matchup still is, and specially if you add AEGIS this fight is impossible. This got me thinking, is there ANY other matchup in the game between 2 champions which is this much broken??

    Should it be this way??!

    Not positive of this because so haven't tried it but Corvus does lose his glaive charges temporarily when hit by a heavy attack. So couldn't you technically take a heavy attack and then hit him with a heavy while the glaive charges are down? Then you could hit him with a special 3.
    If we're talking what's possible, not what human beings could do, then there's some possibilities. Taking a heavy will give you a three second window, but you'd be taking a heavy to the face. An Invuln boost would theoretically protect you for a while, but that's not enough. However, if you can get in enough attacks during your three second openings you could expend all your glaive charges. That would then give you fifty seconds of non-crit offense. It is Ebony Maw, so not the biggest bag of health. With enough boosts and perfect play, this might be possible.
    What I'm saying is: you take the heavy then you heavy attack back. Your glaive charges won't be active so for a short moment you can kill the aegis. THEN you build up power through whatever means and hit him with a special 3. The special 3 will hit him no matter what.

    That doesn't sound that impossible to me.
    Thats extremely impractical and if you are in a high tier alliance war then the huge dmg of opponents will kill you off
    God damnit I'm not saying it's practical. I'm saying it's totally possible. Stop extrapolating.
  • Thi101Thi101 Posts: 422 ★★
    edited October 8
    RoninMan said:

    Wasp does great against that node. Her passive stun on her combo makes landing heavies against Maw, Rogue, and Mordo a piece of cake.

    Wouldn’t Wasp fail on her heavy since they’re guaranteed crits? I don’t know about that interaction 100% just curious.
    No, @RoninMan
    Maw only causes Guaranteed Crits to miss if the opponent does not have the class advantage. On this case, guaranteed crits from
    Science/Superior Class Champs still crit
  • MorbidAngleMorbidAngle Posts: 699 ★★★
    Blade is my go to for Aegis nodes. 1 heavy is enough
  • RazorDevilRazorDevil Posts: 542 ★★
    RoninMan said:

    It’s not broken. Don’t go into a fight where you know a champ is going to be countered. There’s multiple counters for any of those aegis nodes. Typically the same champs are placed on those nodes

    He said it was a hidden node. Are you a functional analphabet?
  • RazorDevilRazorDevil Posts: 542 ★★

    You are missing the point. It's not that I don't know counters to AEGIS node. This is about interaction between 2 champions which make it impossible no matter what you so to beat this. The question im putting forward is, should it be like this?? Is this not broken??

    You brought a champ with a known hard counter that's regularly placed on hidden nodes, the problem isn't the interaction it's your terrible champ selection
    YOU PLAY WITH WHAT YOU HAVE!
  • RazorDevilRazorDevil Posts: 542 ★★
    RoninMan said:

    Wasp does great against that node. Her passive stun on her combo makes landing heavies against Maw, Rogue, and Mordo a piece of cake.

    Wouldn’t Wasp fail on her heavy since they’re guaranteed crits? I don’t know about that interaction 100% just curious.
    Read the damn ebony maw character description
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,431 ★★★★★

    You are missing the point. It's not that I don't know counters to AEGIS node. This is about interaction between 2 champions which make it impossible no matter what you so to beat this. The question im putting forward is, should it be like this?? Is this not broken??

    You brought a champ with a known hard counter that's regularly placed on hidden nodes, the problem isn't the interaction it's your terrible champ selection
    YOU PLAY WITH WHAT YOU HAVE!
    At that level of play he should have a deeper pool.
  • TyEdgeTyEdge Posts: 234

    Wow. Why is everyone so riled up by this?

    - Yes I know how AEGIS works.
    - Yes I have this lane since past few seasons now atleast.
    - Yes In hindsight I took a risk bringing in Corvus where I had other better options available.
    - No this post is not about my judgement, or knowledge of the champs or nodes or the game

    This post is about 1 thing which is clearly stated In the title. IMPOSSIBLE MATCHUP!

    Should it be like this?? Is this not broken?? As far as I feel, there shouldnt be any matchup in the game where no matter how small a chance, high penalty or High skill needed to overcome it, it should be doable.

    It's not broken. If there weren't ANY counters, it'd be broken.
    I can see where you're coming from, but I'm with OP. The question I've asked myself is this: "Should there be a matchup that, regardless of player skill, a player is completely incapable of winning?" I feel like the answer should be 'no.' If I bring Archangel to fight an Iceman, it's going to be a mess, but I can eventually win. If I bring Corvus to fight a highly ranked Electro, I'm gonna take a ton of damage, but I can survive off the dupe or win the fight before the damage taps me out if I play well.

    Now, with that said, if you gamble and lose like this, crash the game, take the health penalty, and try again. Womp womp.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,431 ★★★★★
    TyEdge said:

    Wow. Why is everyone so riled up by this?

    - Yes I know how AEGIS works.
    - Yes I have this lane since past few seasons now atleast.
    - Yes In hindsight I took a risk bringing in Corvus where I had other better options available.
    - No this post is not about my judgement, or knowledge of the champs or nodes or the game

    This post is about 1 thing which is clearly stated In the title. IMPOSSIBLE MATCHUP!

    Should it be like this?? Is this not broken?? As far as I feel, there shouldnt be any matchup in the game where no matter how small a chance, high penalty or High skill needed to overcome it, it should be doable.

    It's not broken. If there weren't ANY counters, it'd be broken.
    I can see where you're coming from, but I'm with OP. The question I've asked myself is this: "Should there be a matchup that, regardless of player skill, a player is completely incapable of winning?" I feel like the answer should be 'no.' If I bring Archangel to fight an Iceman, it's going to be a mess, but I can eventually win. If I bring Corvus to fight a highly ranked Electro, I'm gonna take a ton of damage, but I can survive off the dupe or win the fight before the damage taps me out if I play well.

    Now, with that said, if you gamble and lose like this, crash the game, take the health penalty, and try again. Womp womp.
    Player skill also includes knowing how to handle situations, such as not going into a stealth node with a champ that has a hard counter. he put himself into that situation.
  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 3,067 ★★★★★
    But why would you use Corvus there. There is absolutely no reason when you know you could have faced someone like EM or Sinister there. You can't make all holes square just because you have a square peg.
  • AsadWazir12AsadWazir12 Posts: 21
    Guys the point I was trying to make in this post was not about my choice of champion to take into that node. Yes I took a risk which didn't payoff, I was hoping there would be EF there so I would get a charge. It was a calculated risk which spectacularly failed.

    My point was that, should there exist such matchups where it's impossible for the player to win?
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,431 ★★★★★

    Guys the point I was trying to make in this post was not about my choice of champion to take into that node. Yes I took a risk which didn't payoff, I was hoping there would be EF there so I would get a charge. It was a calculated risk which spectacularly failed.

    My point was that, should there exist such matchups where it's impossible for the player to win?

    you mean like me tanking a rank 4 vision verse a rank 5 anything cosmic boss? There is no problem with impossible matchups, it is up to you to avoid them and you have the power to. You chose poorly.
  • M_virkM_virk Posts: 54
    edited October 8

    Guys the point I was trying to make in this post was not about my choice of champion to take into that node. Yes I took a risk which didn't payoff, I was hoping there would be EF there so I would get a charge. It was a calculated risk which spectacularly failed.

    My point was that, should there exist such matchups where it's impossible for the player to win?

    Yes, and that's not the only interaction like that...there are plenty more interactions in the game just like that where its near impossible to get through without spending insane resources. This game is very completed and there are alot of champs that counter each other completely. That's the whole point of the game. To diversify your roster and plan ahead so you dont run into these scenarios.

    So its its perfectly okay for these interactions to exist, specially since this can easily be avoided. There are also masteries in the game that let you scan ahead and see the classes you may run into.
    And when it comes to war, everyone is trying their best to put up a defence which will catch someone completely offgaurd and in your case that's what happened. These kind of interactions need to exist for AW to be competitive.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,431 ★★★★★
    M_virk said:

    Guys the point I was trying to make in this post was not about my choice of champion to take into that node. Yes I took a risk which didn't payoff, I was hoping there would be EF there so I would get a charge. It was a calculated risk which spectacularly failed.

    My point was that, should there exist such matchups where it's impossible for the player to win?

    Yes, and that's not the only interaction like that...there are plenty more interactions in the game just like that where its near impossible to get through without spending insane resources. This game is very completed and there are alot of champs that counter each other completely. That's the whole point of the game. To diversify your roster and plan ahead so you dont run into these scenarios.

    So its its perfectly okay for these interactions to exist, specially since this can easily be avoided. There are also masteries in the game that let you scan ahead and see the classes you may run into.
    There are not many champs who hard counter other champs. Maw hard counters a couple. HT can hard counter a couple. What other interactions make impossible fights?
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