What exactly changed between the Beta and Now?

LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 1,905 ★★★★
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/166021/champion-spotlight-old-man-logan#latest
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/166022/champion-spotlight-colossus#latest
Can someone please clarify exactly what changed between the Beta and Now? They took Several Extra Months so the Colossus and Old Man Logan Buffs would come out better than they were at the end of the Beta, but from what I've been reading from the Spotlights and Comments the only thing that's different is Nerfs to some of their Synergies and Abilities. Just, what?
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Comments

  • issamaf80issamaf80 Posts: 1,446 ★★★
    you know the spotlight is for a maxed 4 star they should have the same state as beta as 5 star
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 1,905 ★★★★
    edited November 2019
    issamaf80 said:

    you know the spotlight is for a maxed 4 star they should have the same state as beta as 5 star

    What?



    Here it shows both the 4 Star And 5 Star's Base Stats, unless do you mean the Ability's Stats are only being shown for the 4 Star?
  • issamaf80issamaf80 Posts: 1,446 ★★★

    issamaf80 said:

    you know the spotlight is for a maxed 4 star they should have the same state as beta as 5 star

    What?



    Here it shows both the 4 Star And 5 Star's Base Stats, unless do you mean the Ability's Stats are only being shown for the 4 Star?
    Ability's Stats
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 1,905 ★★★★

    The most important question

    Will emma and omega keep their synergies as they are with colossus?

    If yes so god be mercy on us he will be an absolut monster

    Yes that's something else I've seen causing a lot of confusion, hope the mods can get on the Spotlight Posts soon and clarify all these Questions...
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 1,905 ★★★★
    issamaf80 said:

    issamaf80 said:

    you know the spotlight is for a maxed 4 star they should have the same state as beta as 5 star

    What?



    Here it shows both the 4 Star And 5 Star's Base Stats, unless do you mean the Ability's Stats are only being shown for the 4 Star?
    Ability's Stats
    Ah gotcha, yeah that is odd... They could've just put the 5 Star's Ability Stats in Parentheses next to the 4 Star's Ability Stats
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 1,905 ★★★★
    zeezee57 said:

    I asked the exact same thing when a mod shared the link to OML spotlight earlier. I'm not seeing these changes that were "worth the wait"

    Not even that, I'm not seeing any changes that are supposed to make them reach their "max potential". They said the reason the Buffs were stalled so long is because they knew they could make them better, but again it looks like all they did was Nerf their Abilities...
  • zeezee57zeezee57 Posts: 2,307 ★★★★★

    zeezee57 said:

    I asked the exact same thing when a mod shared the link to OML spotlight earlier. I'm not seeing these changes that were "worth the wait"

    Not even that, I'm not seeing any changes that are supposed to make them reach their "max potential". They said the reason the Buffs were stalled so long is because they knew they could make them better, but again it looks like all they did was Nerf their Abilities...
    Yup, I was thinking that as I read the spotlights but without the Beta info in front of me for comparison I didnt want to state definitively they were worse. I seriously don't get why they would think they need to be toned down from a beta that didn't even move them into the upper echelon of champs.
  • AnkalagonnAnkalagonn Posts: 499 ★★
    I saw on reddit that they nerfed the buff... which is a new level for Kabam

    As Deadpool would say: a 4th wall in a 4th wall, that's like 16 walls.
  • zeezee57zeezee57 Posts: 2,307 ★★★★★
    Am I mistaken or didnt Colossus have some form of prowess in the Beta? I'm not seeing that in the spotlight so was that removed or was it something from leaked abilities and never actually in the beta?
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 1,905 ★★★★
    zeezee57 said:

    Am I mistaken or didnt Colossus have some form of prowess in the Beta? I'm not seeing that in the spotlight so was that removed or was it something from leaked abilities and never actually in the beta?



    It's not specifically called a Prowess Bufg but there are several ways his Attack and Special Attack Damage is increased. Also possibly the Omega Red Synergy but it's not confirmed if that's still a thing yet.
  • SparkAlotSparkAlot Posts: 569 ★★★
    edited November 2019
    Well, they never said they will be better. They said they need to adjust them, and now that we have seen these adjustments, it fits this month's theme of No(!oo)vember.

    This is why it was mentioned before that they need to go another round of public testing so people know exactly what they are getting, and they can offer feedback on the new proposed changes.
  • zeezee57zeezee57 Posts: 2,307 ★★★★★
    edited November 2019

    zeezee57 said:

    Am I mistaken or didnt Colossus have some form of prowess in the Beta? I'm not seeing that in the spotlight so was that removed or was it something from leaked abilities and never actually in the beta?



    It's not specifically called a Prowess Bufg but there are several ways his Attack and Special Attack Damage is increased. Also possibly the Omega Red Synergy but it's not confirmed if that's still a thing yet.
    Those abilities increasing attack were still present in addition to the prowess, which exclusively increases damage on special attacks.

    Edit: after looking at one of the beta videos it looks like the prowess so only in the leaked info and not the beta
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 654 ★★★
    I'm just happy the buff is here. The announcement and release should be a couple months tops. Waiting six months was pretty rough.
  • issamaf80issamaf80 Posts: 1,446 ★★★

    I'm just happy the buff is here. The announcement and release should be a couple months tops. Waiting six months was pretty rough.

    its this update not 6 month later
  • issamaf80issamaf80 Posts: 1,446 ★★★

    issamaf80 said:

    I'm just happy the buff is here. The announcement and release should be a couple months tops. Waiting six months was pretty rough.

    its this update not 6 month later
    You do realize we voted for the buff of Colossus back in May? Also, the beta was done in August so that is a timespan I'm not comfortable with personally. They don't have to adhere to it but I'm just sharing. I had made plans to use both of them for Map 7 but I acquired champions since that I no longer need them for.
    okay
  • zeezee57zeezee57 Posts: 2,307 ★★★★★

    Hey there, we’ve seen some questions from players about what exactly changed between the beta and now and we wanted to outline those below. Also, we’d like to point out that the stats for abilities in Spotlights are for 4-Star Champions, so if it looks like his stats are lower than a 5-Star in the beta, that would be why.

    Colossus

    • Old Mechanic
    • At the start of the fight, Colossus gains 1 indefinite Armor Up Buff for each #X-Men Champion on his team, including himself.

    • New Mechanic
    • At the start of the fight, Colossus gains a number of indefinite Armor Up Buffs equal to 2 plus the number of X-Men Champions on his team, including himself.
    Part of the feedback we received about Colossus in the beta was that he was taking too long for players to be able to ramp up his damage. We made this change to allow him to begin the fight with more Armor Up Buffs, which increases his overall Critical Damage and damage output. This will allow him to start at a higher point on the damage ramp than he would before.
    • Beta Tuning for Signature Ability (Based on a 5-Star)
    • Colossus has a 12-37% Chance to convert an expiring Armor Up Buff into a permanent one.

    • New Tuning for Signature Ability (Based on a 5-Star)
    • Colossus has a 18-45% Chance to convert an expiring Armor Up Buff into a permanent one.
    He also received an increase to the chance that his signature ability will convert an expiring Armor Up Buff into a permanent one. This will allow the player to ramp up more quickly if they have their signature ability. This will turn more of their temporary Armor Up Buffs into indefinite ones and keep the player ramping up their power throughout the fight in a more reliable way.

    Additionally, during the beta, we had synergy bonuses for Omega Red and Emma Frost sitting on the beta variant of Colossus. This was to test the proposed changes to the existing synergy bonuses that those 2 Champions already has access to. While we would have liked to keep their old tuning, it just became completely overpowered because Colossus has so many more Armor Up Buffs during an average fight that he used to and so we made the decision to lower their potency. In the update, these synergy bonuses will live on Omega Red and Emma Frost just like they did before, but with the new, reduced tuning.
    • Omega Red Synergy “Metal Mayhem”
      Old Value for Colossus: +20% Attack Rating per Armor Up Buff
      New Value for Colossus: +2% Attack Rating per Armor Up Buff


    • Emma Frost Synergy “Impenetrable Hide”
      Old Value for Colossus: +15% Power Rate per Armor Up Buff
      New Value for Colossus: +2% Power Rate per Armor Up Buff

    Lastly, the Feel Cyttorak’s Embrace synergy had a display error during the beta that showed it giving Colossus +2% Attack Rating per Armor Up Buff, instead of +1%, which is what it was designed to be and what it was actually operating at during the beta test.

    Old Man Logan
    After the beta, in light of the fact that Old Man Logan’s Regeration was made into a Buff and is now also tied to his damage output and can be spent to gain Fury Buffs during his Special Attacks, we increased the amount of healing it gives him, from 9% to 10% Max health over 20 seconds. There was also a display error in the beta that was saying this Regeneration occurred every 10 seconds instead of every 20 seconds, as he was designed and as he was doing in the beta.
    What about the passive bleeds going from 14 seconds to 5? You'll proc them at a higher rate but with such a short duration he'll need to be awakened, and even then be reliant on RNG to extend the duration. So in the beta getting 10-15 bleeds turned into furies was common even unduped but won't be possible in the same scenario now.
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 1,905 ★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Old Man Logan
    After the beta, in light of the fact that Old Man Logan’s Regeration was made into a Buff and is now also tied to his damage output and can be spent to gain Fury Buffs during his Special Attacks, we increased the amount of healing it gives him, from 9% to 10% Max health over 20 seconds. There was also a display error in the beta that was saying this Regeneration occurred every 10 seconds instead of every 20 seconds, as he was designed and as he was doing in the beta.

    Also, since OML's bleed protection is tied to the buff, losing the buff doesn't just cost OML his heal, it also costs him his bleed protection.

    I wouldn't say his heal "can be spent" to gain fury buffs. That implies this is an option for the player. But if the player chooses to use any special attacks this isn't optional, this is unavoidable. If you use specials, you lose the heal. Because the heal refreshes only every twenty seconds, you're bound to be losing the heal for an extended period of time. The only way to avoid this is to avoid using specials or to moderate their usage severely, and that eliminates most of the damage increases the revamp gives him.
    What if they made it so the Regen *Buff* could be Absorbed by the use of Specials for a Fury, but if you were to Dash Back for let's say 1.5 Seconds you could turn it into a Regen *Passive* which has the Same Duration and Potency but allows you to keep the Regen when using Specials? So we would have the option to let the Regen be Absorbed or Not.
  • zeezee57zeezee57 Posts: 2,307 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Old Man Logan
    After the beta, in light of the fact that Old Man Logan’s Regeration was made into a Buff and is now also tied to his damage output and can be spent to gain Fury Buffs during his Special Attacks, we increased the amount of healing it gives him, from 9% to 10% Max health over 20 seconds. There was also a display error in the beta that was saying this Regeneration occurred every 10 seconds instead of every 20 seconds, as he was designed and as he was doing in the beta.

    I have a problem with this description. It's been long enough ago that I didn't recall the display bug, but it is still the case that the 0.5% healing per second is only marginally higher than OML's current healing of 0.4%, specifically when you factor in the fact that you lose all of this healing temporarily when you use special attacks, in real world play that healing is going to be lower than OML is now. Also, since OML's bleed protection is tied to the buff, losing the buff doesn't just cost OML his heal, it also costs him his bleed protection.

    I wouldn't say his heal "can be spent" to gain fury buffs. That implies this is an option for the player. But if the player chooses to use any special attacks this isn't optional, this is unavoidable. If you use specials, you lose the heal. Because the heal refreshes only every twenty seconds, you're bound to be losing the heal for an extended period of time. The only way to avoid this is to avoid using specials or to moderate their usage severely, and that eliminates most of the damage increases the revamp gives him.

    To put it another way, OML originally (as in, currently) healed for 8% every 20 seconds and this heal could not be nullified or spent. In exchange for having it go away either through nullification or through the use of specials, the heal was first increased to 9%, then 10%, every 20 seconds. Considering that you are likely going to lose the heal for a significant percentage of the time, or play special attack-free, that's a trivial increase both times.

    Very important to note: I'm not complaining about the relaunch heal being lower than the beta heal. I'm complaining about the relaunch heal being lower than the current OML heal. In real gameplay, it is almost certainly going to be, AND the new OML can lose his bleed protection. The current one cannot. Although the new OML has more offense, I believe he has inferior damage mitigation to the original. The difference is large enough that I cannot even say if the updated OML is actually a net buff. No question he gets a bump upward in damage, but the only way to leverage that offensive gain is to lose a lot of damage mitigation, and this doesn't count all the new ways OML is worse than before, like when facing champs with nullify.
    Exactly. Considering its basically a damage increase at the cost of everything else it doesn't make sense at all.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 958 ★★★
    zeezee57 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Old Man Logan
    After the beta, in light of the fact that Old Man Logan’s Regeration was made into a Buff and is now also tied to his damage output and can be spent to gain Fury Buffs during his Special Attacks, we increased the amount of healing it gives him, from 9% to 10% Max health over 20 seconds. There was also a display error in the beta that was saying this Regeneration occurred every 10 seconds instead of every 20 seconds, as he was designed and as he was doing in the beta.

    I have a problem with this description. It's been long enough ago that I didn't recall the display bug, but it is still the case that the 0.5% healing per second is only marginally higher than OML's current healing of 0.4%, specifically when you factor in the fact that you lose all of this healing temporarily when you use special attacks, in real world play that healing is going to be lower than OML is now. Also, since OML's bleed protection is tied to the buff, losing the buff doesn't just cost OML his heal, it also costs him his bleed protection.

    I wouldn't say his heal "can be spent" to gain fury buffs. That implies this is an option for the player. But if the player chooses to use any special attacks this isn't optional, this is unavoidable. If you use specials, you lose the heal. Because the heal refreshes only every twenty seconds, you're bound to be losing the heal for an extended period of time. The only way to avoid this is to avoid using specials or to moderate their usage severely, and that eliminates most of the damage increases the revamp gives him.

    To put it another way, OML originally (as in, currently) healed for 8% every 20 seconds and this heal could not be nullified or spent. In exchange for having it go away either through nullification or through the use of specials, the heal was first increased to 9%, then 10%, every 20 seconds. Considering that you are likely going to lose the heal for a significant percentage of the time, or play special attack-free, that's a trivial increase both times.

    Very important to note: I'm not complaining about the relaunch heal being lower than the beta heal. I'm complaining about the relaunch heal being lower than the current OML heal. In real gameplay, it is almost certainly going to be, AND the new OML can lose his bleed protection. The current one cannot. Although the new OML has more offense, I believe he has inferior damage mitigation to the original. The difference is large enough that I cannot even say if the updated OML is actually a net buff. No question he gets a bump upward in damage, but the only way to leverage that offensive gain is to lose a lot of damage mitigation, and this doesn't count all the new ways OML is worse than before, like when facing champs with nullify.
    Exactly. Considering its basically a damage increase at the cost of everything else it doesn't make sense at all.
    For all that, they could have made his existing buffs less terrible, bumped his regen passive a touch and called it a day. I would have been happy with that. I would have been ecstatic if they made his buffs into stronger passives and left everything else alone.
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