Removal of Thorns: a new case for rank down tickets

KevinFF1961

We have been told several times that we will only see rank down tickets in the event that a champion's effectiveness or abilities are diminished.

I ranked my 5* Ant-Man to r4 and has been a complete monster at thorns. In fact, it's why I ranked him up. He's otherwise a mostly average champion who I would be hard pressed to take to r3. With that said, the terms of your commitment to consider rank down tickets are met. By taking thorns out of aw, I now have a rather useless r4 and would love to take him down in order to have enough for the new 5* coming on board. I ask that you strongly consider this as there are other Champions that lose significant value because of this

Comments

Draco2199

t2as are becoming more available so no need to rank down

KevinFF1961

SmokinSurfer wrote: »

KevinFF1961 wrote: »

I got poisoned by him once. I dropped my phone and he caught me. Enhanced poison is good for abomination and Green goblin

Lol, that 10 damage per tick poison must've destroyed you, i hope the phone survived

Always invest in the otter box!! That said, I think the case took more damage than my character did from that poison

Run477

Gimli_SoG wrote: »

While I am against rank down tickets in almost every scenario, the original post does have a point. If they had some kind of targeted rank down ticket option for champions that really shine on those nodes I'd probably agree it would be a good idea.

Tbh I am close to taking antman to rank 3 for the same reason, thorns aw defense

Don't waste the resources on ant man, man. Unless you have science t4ccs expiring

DNA3000

Fluffy wrote: »

You could argue that it has reduced the effectiveness of the champion.

Yes, you can argue that. However, you would not be arguing that with the developers, because the developers aren't entertaining that argument, because they never said or even implied that RDTs were going to be offered whenever someone could argue that something's "effectiveness" is reduced. You can argue that happens to a number of champions with every single game change.

Not even a direct nerf necessarily warrants an RDT. The devs didn't say when a champ is nerfed they will issue RDTs. They specifically said they would only consider it when a significant change happened to a champion in the future. They implied it was an unlikely possibility, not a promise.

LocoMotives

Deadbyrd9 wrote: »

He could just be placed on the poison node not enhanced poison. I bring a champ that isn't poison immune for the poison node because I might get hit by 1 poison before I take down that defender so not much poison damage lost. Antman would take forever to take down

Think it was you that said you use bones currently on that node? Bones crushes AM better than most.

KevinFF1961

Run477 wrote: »

KhanMedina wrote: »

Run477 wrote: »

Nope. Enjoy your decision to take ant man to r4. I have a duped magneto who is also supposedly a "monster" on thorns. I never took him up bc I'm smart about t2a use... besides, no one believes you took up an ant man for thorns. That may be where you place him. You took him up bc your ally required you to r4 a 5* champ for prestige and he was your only duped champ. Now that you have better champs and got the benefit of the higher aq rewards, you want to undo that choice. Sorry. No dice. Ranks won't tickers should never have been available for 5* champs imo. Only 4* champs like witch, Thor, wolverine, strange--ie the ones actually nerfed.

Sorry but this is some real false logic in play here. You may not rank up an antman for thorns, but I know alot of other people who sure did. When they showed their champs and asked who to rank up, officer's quickly said "Antman..for thorn nodes". He was a popular champ for that node for many people. To say that no one believes this because you personally wouldn't do it is very silly and dismissive.

Then let me rephrase. Officers telling people to rank 4 ant man (assuming that is the issue) is really bad advice. I still standby my point. A lot of alliances require a rank 4 5* champ for prestige and that's who got ranked. And, a lot of extra rewards were had bc of that additional prestige. I get it. You don't like your 5* r4 ant man. I wouldn't either. But he still has some "value." Put him on a starburst node or degen node if they still exist.

Stop being so arrogant. You weren't in my alliance. Stop pretending you know why I took him up when everyone else is telling you how feasible that situation is and why they did it too. I was in a 5m alliance, we didn't care about prestige and I already had an r4 Star-Lord. Your argument is invalid because I'm the only one who knows why I took him up and I'm being told others did the same thing. And now the carpet is being ripped out beneath us

Run477

I'm just fully against rank down tickets for r4 5*s period. The way the game slowed the progression was limiting the t2as. Even if you didn't rank for prestige (I don't know what aq map you were running), you still benefited from the prestige boost even if not for that purpose. Allowing people to rank down 5* r4 champs defeats the purpose of making those (to this point) the rarest of the rare in the game and allows those who ranked them for prestige purposes a windfall.

I will say again. Rtds should have never been allowed for 5* r4 champs.

TillerTheKiller

I rank 4'ed Cable just for thorns node in war. It would be nice to derank that wet noodle.

LocoMotives

Don't get your hopes up, guys. You all already know the answer, but I don't begrudge you for asking the question.

Run477

Not arrogance. It's fact. Antman r4 was a bad decision that was made. I do feel bad for you that you are stuck with him but I still don't think rank down tickets are appropriate. Even if it wasn't extra aq rewards (which You got whether u admit that or not), if he truly was the "monster" you say, then you also got extra war rewards.

Personally, I can't remember the last time I even fought an ant man in war. I usually would laugh when I came across one. Unfortunately, one of our bgs has one ant man on defense out of necessity, but that's it (and it's certainly not an r4 champ). I think you know this was a bad decision and you want to rank him down as a result. Rank down tickets are a bad precedent to set. It's not like I'm ranking up my duped hulkbuster or duped magneto to r4 bc I know the rarity of t2as

RagamugginGunner

All thorns defenders and ability reducing attackers should get rank down tickets. This has put the final nail in the coffin for BW.

KevinFF1961

Run477 wrote: »

I'm just fully against rank down tickets for r4 5*s period. The way the game slowed the progression was limiting the t2as. Even if you didn't rank for prestige (I don't know what aq map you were running), you still benefited from the prestige boost even if not for that purpose. Allowing people to rank down 5* r4 champs defeats the purpose of making those (to this point) the rarest of the rare in the game and allows those who ranked them for prestige purposes a windfall.

I will say again. Rtds should have never been allowed for 5* r4 champs.

I can live with your opinion. I appreciate the honesty rather than assuming my motives at the time.

Sungj

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

RDT's are for change to the Champ themselves. Not for the application of them. Nothing is being changed about the Champs.

I mostly agree but in some cases changes to the applications of certain champions could warrant RDTs. I personally feel no need to have rank down tickets but I can see the perspective of players who do. When will power was indirectly nerfed not scaling with inflated health people ranked down many champions because they were good only because of will power. The most glaring case was hulkbuster, pre 12.0 HB was a fantastic defender since will power made him take so little damage and with willpower nerfed he had no use as a defender any more so a many people used rdts to rank him down. Antman, luke cage, cyclops and colossus were mainly defender due to thorns nodes but now they are next to useless as defenders so even though the characters themselves weren't changed they might as well have been since one of their main uses were taken away.

TRE

Put your Antman on a degen node.

KevinFF1961

TheTaser wrote: »

Why are you morons not happy about thorns being removed? Hallelujah! Thank you so much Kabam. If you r4'ed your antman, you're an idiot. Go cry a big, wide river.

Like I said, he was extremely effective. He was very much getting the job done. Like many others here. I'd do it again too if they weren't eliminating thorns. But we won't feed this troll here

KhanMedina

RagamugginGunner wrote: »

All thorns defenders and ability reducing attackers should get rank down tickets. This has put the final nail in the coffin for BW.

Not just for these guys, but if they expect people to bring diverse champs to defense then they should give us a way to diversify them without having to farm all over again for different rank ups.

I see people saying it wouldn't be fair, but I don't see how it would be unfair at all. I don't care if someone ranked up someone 6 months ago for prestige before this update happened. I care about what happens after the update. I don't get why someone would rank down someone they leveled just for prestige anyway since they are still worth the same prestige, unless you think they just want to rank up some other useless prestige champ for the extra 200 pts.

HoidCosmere

How would a duped Antman do on a 66% increased armor node? With glancing and the increased armor I would imagine he could hold up to a lot of hits. Never ran into it, but a thought for use.

I really like the extra points you can earn for bringing many different champs. I really hope that helps not seeing the same 8 or so champs over and over again.

MJAM

There have been a lot of changes effecting the game in the last while. It may not nerf specific champs but it does change the way we think of champs. Even all the featured being added to 5*. It changes the way you look at things including T2Alpha. General rank down tickets would make some sense.

Removal of thorns node is a huge hit to Antman, Cyc, Magneto as 5*

GroundedWisdom

Sungj wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

RDT's are for change to the Champ themselves. Not for the application of them. Nothing is being changed about the Champs.

I mostly agree but in some cases changes to the applications of certain champions could warrant RDTs. I personally feel no need to have rank down tickets but I can see the perspective of players who do. When will power was indirectly nerfed not scaling with inflated health people ranked down many champions because they were good only because of will power. The most glaring case was hulkbuster, pre 12.0 HB was a fantastic defender since will power made him take so little damage and with willpower nerfed he had no use as a defender any more so a many people used rdts to rank him down. Antman, luke cage, cyclops and colossus were mainly defender due to thorns nodes but now they are next to useless as defenders so even though the characters themselves weren't changed they might as well have been since one of their main uses were taken away.

The use of Champs in aspects like War is not the same as changing the actual performance of a Champ. Who people use in War is entirely up to them. They could have used SG on Thorns if they chose. Obviously not clever, but you get my point. The integrity of the Champ is not changed. Only an aspect of War that people most commonly used them on. It's not the same. It doesn't warrant RDT's. The Champs themselves have not been altered.

HoidCosmere

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Sungj wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

RDT's are for change to the Champ themselves. Not for the application of them. Nothing is being changed about the Champs.

I mostly agree but in some cases changes to the applications of certain champions could warrant RDTs. I personally feel no need to have rank down tickets but I can see the perspective of players who do. When will power was indirectly nerfed not scaling with inflated health people ranked down many champions because they were good only because of will power. The most glaring case was hulkbuster, pre 12.0 HB was a fantastic defender since will power made him take so little damage and with willpower nerfed he had no use as a defender any more so a many people used rdts to rank him down. Antman, luke cage, cyclops and colossus were mainly defender due to thorns nodes but now they are next to useless as defenders so even though the characters themselves weren't changed they might as well have been since one of their main uses were taken away.

The use of Champs in aspects like War is not the same as changing the actual performance of a Champ. Who people use in War is entirely up to them. They could have used SG on Thorns if they chose. Obviously not clever, but you get my point. The integrity of the Champ is not changed. Only an aspect of War that people most commonly used them on. It's not the same. It doesn't warrant RDT's. The Champs themselves have not been altered.

I find SG is best used on a special 1 bias node. Back flipping you into oblivion is how she rolls.

chunkyb

Love to see the crew of self appointed authorities show up to put down any discussions they don't like. They're really good at nuking these inconvenient threads.

Truth is, we don't know the full extent of the change in the game yet. Op makes a good and valid point but we're guessing about the new nodes. Wait until the update hits. Avoid these trolls as much as possible, because all they do is run your thread into the ground enough for a mod to close it down. Happens everyday.

LocoMotives

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Sungj wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

RDT's are for change to the Champ themselves. Not for the application of them. Nothing is being changed about the Champs.

I mostly agree but in some cases changes to the applications of certain champions could warrant RDTs. I personally feel no need to have rank down tickets but I can see the perspective of players who do. When will power was indirectly nerfed not scaling with inflated health people ranked down many champions because they were good only because of will power. The most glaring case was hulkbuster, pre 12.0 HB was a fantastic defender since will power made him take so little damage and with willpower nerfed he had no use as a defender any more so a many people used rdts to rank him down. Antman, luke cage, cyclops and colossus were mainly defender due to thorns nodes but now they are next to useless as defenders so even though the characters themselves weren't changed they might as well have been since one of their main uses were taken away.

The use of Champs in aspects like War is not the same as changing the actual performance of a Champ. Who people use in War is entirely up to them. They could have used SG on Thorns if they chose. Obviously not clever, but you get my point. The integrity of the Champ is not changed. Only an aspect of War that people most commonly used them on. It's not the same. It doesn't warrant RDT's. The Champs themselves have not been altered.

The integrity may not have changed, but the utility and in-game value of some champs certainly has. Starting in September, some champs will have less utility than they do this month. While the champ may not have changed, his or her usefulness has.

I'm not sure where I stand on the issue, but you should let a mod shoot it down and not feel obliged to do it yourself. Just my opinion.

CoatHang3r

chunkyb wrote: »

Love to see the crew of self appointed authorities show up to put down any discussions they don't like. They're really good at nuking these inconvenient threads.

Truth is, we don't know the full extent of the change in the game yet. Op makes a good and valid point but we're guessing about the new nodes. Wait until the update hits. Avoid these trolls as much as possible, because all they do is run your thread into the ground enough for a mod to close it down. Happens everyday.

The irony. You realize that is exactly what you are doing by launching ad Homs and breaking forum rules with deragorty descriptions of people who hold an opposing view point to yours right? Your rhetoric is what shuts down threads, well that and the fact RDT threads have been beaten to death.

KhanMedina

LocoMotives wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Sungj wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

RDT's are for change to the Champ themselves. Not for the application of them. Nothing is being changed about the Champs.

I mostly agree but in some cases changes to the applications of certain champions could warrant RDTs. I personally feel no need to have rank down tickets but I can see the perspective of players who do. When will power was indirectly nerfed not scaling with inflated health people ranked down many champions because they were good only because of will power. The most glaring case was hulkbuster, pre 12.0 HB was a fantastic defender since will power made him take so little damage and with willpower nerfed he had no use as a defender any more so a many people used rdts to rank him down. Antman, luke cage, cyclops and colossus were mainly defender due to thorns nodes but now they are next to useless as defenders so even though the characters themselves weren't changed they might as well have been since one of their main uses were taken away.

The use of Champs in aspects like War is not the same as changing the actual performance of a Champ. Who people use in War is entirely up to them. They could have used SG on Thorns if they chose. Obviously not clever, but you get my point. The integrity of the Champ is not changed. Only an aspect of War that people most commonly used them on. It's not the same. It doesn't warrant RDT's. The Champs themselves have not been altered.

The integrity may not have changed, but the utility and in-game value of some champs certainly has. Starting in September, some champs will have less utility than they do this month. While the champ may not have changed, his or her usefulness has.

I'm not sure where I stand on the issue, but you should let a mod shoot it down and not feel obliged to do it yourself. Just my opinion.

I agree with you on the basic usability of champs having changed, but we can't ask everyone who doesn't agree to butt out of the conversation either.

LocoMotives

KhanMedina wrote: »

LocoMotives wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Sungj wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

RDT's are for change to the Champ themselves. Not for the application of them. Nothing is being changed about the Champs.

I mostly agree but in some cases changes to the applications of certain champions could warrant RDTs. I personally feel no need to have rank down tickets but I can see the perspective of players who do. When will power was indirectly nerfed not scaling with inflated health people ranked down many champions because they were good only because of will power. The most glaring case was hulkbuster, pre 12.0 HB was a fantastic defender since will power made him take so little damage and with willpower nerfed he had no use as a defender any more so a many people used rdts to rank him down. Antman, luke cage, cyclops and colossus were mainly defender due to thorns nodes but now they are next to useless as defenders so even though the characters themselves weren't changed they might as well have been since one of their main uses were taken away.

The use of Champs in aspects like War is not the same as changing the actual performance of a Champ. Who people use in War is entirely up to them. They could have used SG on Thorns if they chose. Obviously not clever, but you get my point. The integrity of the Champ is not changed. Only an aspect of War that people most commonly used them on. It's not the same. It doesn't warrant RDT's. The Champs themselves have not been altered.

The integrity may not have changed, but the utility and in-game value of some champs certainly has. Starting in September, some champs will have less utility than they do this month. While the champ may not have changed, his or her usefulness has.

I'm not sure where I stand on the issue, but you should let a mod shoot it down and not feel obliged to do it yourself. Just my opinion.

I agree with you on the basic usability of champs having changed, but we can't ask everyone who doesn't agree to butt out of the conversation either.

I believe this question (like many others in forum) is directed towards a mod as they are the only ones that can accurately say what the opinion of Kabam is on each topic. Sometimes forum members take it upon themselves to "decipher" (for lack of a better word) the stated messages of Kabam. Opinions are fine, I'm not one that flags for opposition. But I think there are too many times where opinions are stated as facts and this deters people from getting direct answers.

Run477

Maybe you aren't fighting wars against alliances chalk full of 5* r4 champs that most certainly are not good champs to rank up but are doing so to advance quickly in aq for better rewards. A 5* r4 champ is still going to do really well, regardless he quality of champ, against 4* r4 and 4* r5 defenders. Maybe I'm overly sensitive to this bc I see it happen every war. Alliance after alliance has 5* r4 champs and then you look at their alliance page and the "requirements" are x# of 5* r4 champs. Usually the alliance leader has a 5* r4 magik or star lord but is then forcing those in his alliance to rank up ant man or winter soldier, etc for the alliance. Those are then the same alliances, after they have won wars and moved into getting t4ccs through aq that beg kabam for rank down tickets so they can utilize the rewards they got from those very champs. I'm sorry if I impugned your motive early. I definitely came off a little presumptuous. Maybe this explanation gives more insight into why I feel this way.

TheTaser

Exactly Run477. It's why I do not believe Kabam should give out more rank down tickets for those that went and wasted their t2 alphas. It's your own fault now live with the consequences.

Drizzits

To me this has been the only valid "RDT pls" thread I've seen. I still don't like the idea of them, and there were good points made on all sides, but if an argument for them were going to win I think this was it.

DefJ123

I literally just took my double dupe 5* antman to r3 literally for the sole purpose of placing him on thorns. No other reason, so to the idiots saying other wise you're wrong.

I'll live with it if our Kabam over Lords decide no, but even a single rdt would be appreciated. Dont need a big dump of them like last time but 1 of 2 would be excellent.

Run477

To be clear: I'm not entirely against rtds for 4* champs and r3 5* champs. I am 100% opposed for 5* r4 champs. That being said, I still think your alliance was not smart for having you waste science t4ccs for ant man on thorns. What tier war are you in? I asked my alliance when the last time they saw an ant man on thorns and none of them can remember.