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Removal of Thorns: a new case for rank down tickets

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    Draco2199Draco2199 Posts: 803 ★★★
    t2as are becoming more available so no need to rank down
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    KevinFF1961KevinFF1961 Posts: 93
    I got poisoned by him once. I dropped my phone and he caught me. Enhanced poison is good for abomination and Green goblin

    Lol, that 10 damage per tick poison must've destroyed you, i hope the phone survived

    Always invest in the otter box!! That said, I think the case took more damage than my character did from that poison
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    Run477Run477 Posts: 1,391 ★★★
    Gimli_SoG wrote: »
    While I am against rank down tickets in almost every scenario, the original post does have a point. If they had some kind of targeted rank down ticket option for champions that really shine on those nodes I'd probably agree it would be a good idea.

    Tbh I am close to taking antman to rank 3 for the same reason, thorns aw defense

    Don't waste the resources on ant man, man. Unless you have science t4ccs expiring
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,810 Guardian
    Fluffy wrote: »
    You could argue that it has reduced the effectiveness of the champion.

    Yes, you can argue that. However, you would not be arguing that with the developers, because the developers aren't entertaining that argument, because they never said or even implied that RDTs were going to be offered whenever someone could argue that something's "effectiveness" is reduced. You can argue that happens to a number of champions with every single game change.

    Not even a direct nerf necessarily warrants an RDT. The devs didn't say when a champ is nerfed they will issue RDTs. They specifically said they would only consider it when a significant change happened to a champion in the future. They implied it was an unlikely possibility, not a promise.
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    LocoMotivesLocoMotives Posts: 1,200 ★★★
    Deadbyrd9 wrote: »
    He could just be placed on the poison node not enhanced poison. I bring a champ that isn't poison immune for the poison node because I might get hit by 1 poison before I take down that defender so not much poison damage lost. Antman would take forever to take down

    Think it was you that said you use bones currently on that node? Bones crushes AM better than most.
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    Run477Run477 Posts: 1,391 ★★★
    I'm just fully against rank down tickets for r4 5*s period. The way the game slowed the progression was limiting the t2as. Even if you didn't rank for prestige (I don't know what aq map you were running), you still benefited from the prestige boost even if not for that purpose. Allowing people to rank down 5* r4 champs defeats the purpose of making those (to this point) the rarest of the rare in the game and allows those who ranked them for prestige purposes a windfall.

    I will say again. Rtds should have never been allowed for 5* r4 champs.
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    TillerTheKillerTillerTheKiller Posts: 280 ★★
    I rank 4'ed Cable just for thorns node in war. It would be nice to derank that wet noodle.
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    LocoMotivesLocoMotives Posts: 1,200 ★★★
    Don't get your hopes up, guys. You all already know the answer, but I don't begrudge you for asking the question.
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    Run477Run477 Posts: 1,391 ★★★
    Not arrogance. It's fact. Antman r4 was a bad decision that was made. I do feel bad for you that you are stuck with him but I still don't think rank down tickets are appropriate. Even if it wasn't extra aq rewards (which You got whether u admit that or not), if he truly was the "monster" you say, then you also got extra war rewards.

    Personally, I can't remember the last time I even fought an ant man in war. I usually would laugh when I came across one. Unfortunately, one of our bgs has one ant man on defense out of necessity, but that's it (and it's certainly not an r4 champ). I think you know this was a bad decision and you want to rank him down as a result. Rank down tickets are a bad precedent to set. It's not like I'm ranking up my duped hulkbuster or duped magneto to r4 bc I know the rarity of t2as
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    KevinFF1961KevinFF1961 Posts: 93
    Run477 wrote: »
    I'm just fully against rank down tickets for r4 5*s period. The way the game slowed the progression was limiting the t2as. Even if you didn't rank for prestige (I don't know what aq map you were running), you still benefited from the prestige boost even if not for that purpose. Allowing people to rank down 5* r4 champs defeats the purpose of making those (to this point) the rarest of the rare in the game and allows those who ranked them for prestige purposes a windfall.

    I will say again. Rtds should have never been allowed for 5* r4 champs.

    I can live with your opinion. I appreciate the honesty rather than assuming my motives at the time.
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    SungjSungj Posts: 2,113 ★★★★★
    RDT's are for change to the Champ themselves. Not for the application of them. Nothing is being changed about the Champs.

    I mostly agree but in some cases changes to the applications of certain champions could warrant RDTs. I personally feel no need to have rank down tickets but I can see the perspective of players who do. When will power was indirectly nerfed not scaling with inflated health people ranked down many champions because they were good only because of will power. The most glaring case was hulkbuster, pre 12.0 HB was a fantastic defender since will power made him take so little damage and with willpower nerfed he had no use as a defender any more so a many people used rdts to rank him down. Antman, luke cage, cyclops and colossus were mainly defender due to thorns nodes but now they are next to useless as defenders so even though the characters themselves weren't changed they might as well have been since one of their main uses were taken away.
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    TRETRE Posts: 66
    Put your Antman on a degen node.
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    KevinFF1961KevinFF1961 Posts: 93
    TheTaser wrote: »
    Why are you morons not happy about thorns being removed? Hallelujah! Thank you so much Kabam. If you r4'ed your antman, you're an idiot. Go cry a big, wide river.

    Like I said, he was extremely effective. He was very much getting the job done. Like many others here. I'd do it again too if they weren't eliminating thorns. But we won't feed this troll here
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    KhanMedinaKhanMedina Posts: 927 ★★★
    All thorns defenders and ability reducing attackers should get rank down tickets. This has put the final nail in the coffin for BW.

    Not just for these guys, but if they expect people to bring diverse champs to defense then they should give us a way to diversify them without having to farm all over again for different rank ups.

    I see people saying it wouldn't be fair, but I don't see how it would be unfair at all. I don't care if someone ranked up someone 6 months ago for prestige before this update happened. I care about what happens after the update. I don't get why someone would rank down someone they leveled just for prestige anyway since they are still worth the same prestige, unless you think they just want to rank up some other useless prestige champ for the extra 200 pts.
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    HoidCosmereHoidCosmere Posts: 550 ★★
    How would a duped Antman do on a 66% increased armor node? With glancing and the increased armor I would imagine he could hold up to a lot of hits. Never ran into it, but a thought for use.

    I really like the extra points you can earn for bringing many different champs. I really hope that helps not seeing the same 8 or so champs over and over again.
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    MJAMMJAM Posts: 13
    There have been a lot of changes effecting the game in the last while. It may not nerf specific champs but it does change the way we think of champs. Even all the featured being added to 5*. It changes the way you look at things including T2Alpha. General rank down tickets would make some sense.

    Removal of thorns node is a huge hit to Antman, Cyc, Magneto as 5*
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,299 ★★★★★
    edited August 2017
    Sungj wrote: »
    RDT's are for change to the Champ themselves. Not for the application of them. Nothing is being changed about the Champs.

    I mostly agree but in some cases changes to the applications of certain champions could warrant RDTs. I personally feel no need to have rank down tickets but I can see the perspective of players who do. When will power was indirectly nerfed not scaling with inflated health people ranked down many champions because they were good only because of will power. The most glaring case was hulkbuster, pre 12.0 HB was a fantastic defender since will power made him take so little damage and with willpower nerfed he had no use as a defender any more so a many people used rdts to rank him down. Antman, luke cage, cyclops and colossus were mainly defender due to thorns nodes but now they are next to useless as defenders so even though the characters themselves weren't changed they might as well have been since one of their main uses were taken away.

    The use of Champs in aspects like War is not the same as changing the actual performance of a Champ. Who people use in War is entirely up to them. They could have used SG on Thorns if they chose. Obviously not clever, but you get my point. The integrity of the Champ is not changed. Only an aspect of War that people most commonly used them on. It's not the same. It doesn't warrant RDT's. The Champs themselves have not been altered.
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    Love to see the crew of self appointed authorities show up to put down any discussions they don't like. They're really good at nuking these inconvenient threads.

    Truth is, we don't know the full extent of the change in the game yet. Op makes a good and valid point but we're guessing about the new nodes. Wait until the update hits. Avoid these trolls as much as possible, because all they do is run your thread into the ground enough for a mod to close it down. Happens everyday.
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    LocoMotivesLocoMotives Posts: 1,200 ★★★
    Sungj wrote: »
    RDT's are for change to the Champ themselves. Not for the application of them. Nothing is being changed about the Champs.

    I mostly agree but in some cases changes to the applications of certain champions could warrant RDTs. I personally feel no need to have rank down tickets but I can see the perspective of players who do. When will power was indirectly nerfed not scaling with inflated health people ranked down many champions because they were good only because of will power. The most glaring case was hulkbuster, pre 12.0 HB was a fantastic defender since will power made him take so little damage and with willpower nerfed he had no use as a defender any more so a many people used rdts to rank him down. Antman, luke cage, cyclops and colossus were mainly defender due to thorns nodes but now they are next to useless as defenders so even though the characters themselves weren't changed they might as well have been since one of their main uses were taken away.

    The use of Champs in aspects like War is not the same as changing the actual performance of a Champ. Who people use in War is entirely up to them. They could have used SG on Thorns if they chose. Obviously not clever, but you get my point. The integrity of the Champ is not changed. Only an aspect of War that people most commonly used them on. It's not the same. It doesn't warrant RDT's. The Champs themselves have not been altered.

    The integrity may not have changed, but the utility and in-game value of some champs certainly has. Starting in September, some champs will have less utility than they do this month. While the champ may not have changed, his or her usefulness has.

    I'm not sure where I stand on the issue, but you should let a mod shoot it down and not feel obliged to do it yourself. Just my opinion.
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    CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    chunkyb wrote: »
    Love to see the crew of self appointed authorities show up to put down any discussions they don't like. They're really good at nuking these inconvenient threads.

    Truth is, we don't know the full extent of the change in the game yet. Op makes a good and valid point but we're guessing about the new nodes. Wait until the update hits. Avoid these trolls as much as possible, because all they do is run your thread into the ground enough for a mod to close it down. Happens everyday.
    The irony. You realize that is exactly what you are doing by launching ad Homs and breaking forum rules with deragorty descriptions of people who hold an opposing view point to yours right? Your rhetoric is what shuts down threads, well that and the fact RDT threads have been beaten to death.
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    KhanMedinaKhanMedina Posts: 927 ★★★
    Sungj wrote: »
    RDT's are for change to the Champ themselves. Not for the application of them. Nothing is being changed about the Champs.

    I mostly agree but in some cases changes to the applications of certain champions could warrant RDTs. I personally feel no need to have rank down tickets but I can see the perspective of players who do. When will power was indirectly nerfed not scaling with inflated health people ranked down many champions because they were good only because of will power. The most glaring case was hulkbuster, pre 12.0 HB was a fantastic defender since will power made him take so little damage and with willpower nerfed he had no use as a defender any more so a many people used rdts to rank him down. Antman, luke cage, cyclops and colossus were mainly defender due to thorns nodes but now they are next to useless as defenders so even though the characters themselves weren't changed they might as well have been since one of their main uses were taken away.

    The use of Champs in aspects like War is not the same as changing the actual performance of a Champ. Who people use in War is entirely up to them. They could have used SG on Thorns if they chose. Obviously not clever, but you get my point. The integrity of the Champ is not changed. Only an aspect of War that people most commonly used them on. It's not the same. It doesn't warrant RDT's. The Champs themselves have not been altered.

    The integrity may not have changed, but the utility and in-game value of some champs certainly has. Starting in September, some champs will have less utility than they do this month. While the champ may not have changed, his or her usefulness has.

    I'm not sure where I stand on the issue, but you should let a mod shoot it down and not feel obliged to do it yourself. Just my opinion.

    I agree with you on the basic usability of champs having changed, but we can't ask everyone who doesn't agree to butt out of the conversation either.
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    Run477Run477 Posts: 1,391 ★★★
    Maybe you aren't fighting wars against alliances chalk full of 5* r4 champs that most certainly are not good champs to rank up but are doing so to advance quickly in aq for better rewards. A 5* r4 champ is still going to do really well, regardless he quality of champ, against 4* r4 and 4* r5 defenders. Maybe I'm overly sensitive to this bc I see it happen every war. Alliance after alliance has 5* r4 champs and then you look at their alliance page and the "requirements" are x# of 5* r4 champs. Usually the alliance leader has a 5* r4 magik or star lord but is then forcing those in his alliance to rank up ant man or winter soldier, etc for the alliance. Those are then the same alliances, after they have won wars and moved into getting t4ccs through aq that beg kabam for rank down tickets so they can utilize the rewards they got from those very champs. I'm sorry if I impugned your motive early. I definitely came off a little presumptuous. Maybe this explanation gives more insight into why I feel this way.
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    Exactly Run477. It's why I do not believe Kabam should give out more rank down tickets for those that went and wasted their t2 alphas. It's your own fault now live with the consequences.
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    DrizzitsDrizzits Posts: 157
    To me this has been the only valid "RDT pls" thread I've seen. I still don't like the idea of them, and there were good points made on all sides, but if an argument for them were going to win I think this was it.
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    Run477Run477 Posts: 1,391 ★★★
    To be clear: I'm not entirely against rtds for 4* champs and r3 5* champs. I am 100% opposed for 5* r4 champs. That being said, I still think your alliance was not smart for having you waste science t4ccs for ant man on thorns. What tier war are you in? I asked my alliance when the last time they saw an ant man on thorns and none of them can remember.
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