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Continuous Crit Fails

BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 2,277 ★★★★★
in Bugs and Known Issues
Thing and Nebula both had continuous crit fails that I don’t think are the intended behavior. I was fighting Domino with Nebula and blocking, which caused me to crit fail my charge, but it never went away and I continued to rapidly refresh crit fails as long as I blocked gaining no charges. This happens whenever a charge crit fails. I’d have to stop charging, let the crit fail finish out and not do anything else that would proc one before that. Then I could do something that may or may not fail.

With Thing, I pushed him to 15 charges and his removing and converting them crit failed, keeping him at 15 and preventing me from hitting him. It rapidly refreshed crit fails until he stopped (unstoppably) beating me to death and backed off.

Comments

  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Crit failure is not doing that, it is the aar, crit failure is just damage when one of their abilities fail, it has no aar of its own
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 2,277 ★★★★★
    Lormif said:

    Crit failure is not doing that, it is the aar, crit failure is just damage when one of their abilities fail, it has no aar of its own

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    - Crit failure has no innate connection to dominos aar
    - Triggering crit failure rapidly in succession is actually the best strategy right after not triggering it at all
    - read dominos ability sheet for further information

    When I say “crit fail” I mean that her passive procs. It is a visible indication that an ability has failed. Not that the passive caused a failure. I never said it did. If it is refreshing continuously, the associated effects will continue to fail, regardless of the probability involved. Her aar is not 100%.
    It’s great if you can use it against her, I used Star-Lord and his crappy aa to crush her when she first appeared. I believe that behavior was intended. I don’t think the Nebula and Thing interactions are.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    BigPoppaCBONE said:

    Lormif said:

    Crit failure is not doing that, it is the aar, crit failure is just damage when one of their abilities fail, it has no aar of its own

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    - Crit failure has no innate connection to dominos aar
    - Triggering crit failure rapidly in succession is actually the best strategy right after not triggering it at all
    - read dominos ability sheet for further information

    When I say “crit fail” I mean that her passive procs. It is a visible indication that an ability has failed. Not that the passive caused a failure. I never said it did. If it is refreshing continuously, the associated effects will continue to fail, regardless of the probability involved. Her aar is not 100%.
    It’s great if you can use it against her, I used Star-Lord and his crappy aa to crush her when she first appeared. I believe that behavior was intended. I don’t think the Nebula and Thing interactions are.
    You did though
    BigPoppaCBONE said:

    Thing and Nebula both had continuous crit fails that I don’t think are the intended behavior. I was fighting Domino with Nebula and blocking, which caused me to crit fail my charge, but it never went away and I continued to rapidly refresh crit fails as long as I blocked gaining no charges. This happens whenever a charge crit fails. I’d have to stop charging, let the crit fail finish out and not do anything else that would proc one before that. Then I could do something that may or may not fail.

    With Thing, I pushed him to 15 charges and his removing and converting them crit failed, keeping him at 15 and preventing me from hitting him. It rapidly refreshed crit fails until he stopped (unstoppably) beating me to death and backed off.

    the problem with using these 2 champs as examples if they have things that can passively fail besides the action that you are doing and there is no way to know what ability is failing, and therefore causing the crit fail damage.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 2,277 ★★★★★
    Lormif said:

    BigPoppaCBONE said:

    Lormif said:

    Crit failure is not doing that, it is the aar, crit failure is just damage when one of their abilities fail, it has no aar of its own

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    - Crit failure has no innate connection to dominos aar
    - Triggering crit failure rapidly in succession is actually the best strategy right after not triggering it at all
    - read dominos ability sheet for further information

    When I say “crit fail” I mean that her passive procs. It is a visible indication that an ability has failed. Not that the passive caused a failure. I never said it did. If it is refreshing continuously, the associated effects will continue to fail, regardless of the probability involved. Her aar is not 100%.
    It’s great if you can use it against her, I used Star-Lord and his crappy aa to crush her when she first appeared. I believe that behavior was intended. I don’t think the Nebula and Thing interactions are.
    You did though
    BigPoppaCBONE said:

    Thing and Nebula both had continuous crit fails that I don’t think are the intended behavior. I was fighting Domino with Nebula and blocking, which caused me to crit fail my charge, but it never went away and I continued to rapidly refresh crit fails as long as I blocked gaining no charges. This happens whenever a charge crit fails. I’d have to stop charging, let the crit fail finish out and not do anything else that would proc one before that. Then I could do something that may or may not fail.

    With Thing, I pushed him to 15 charges and his removing and converting them crit failed, keeping him at 15 and preventing me from hitting him. It rapidly refreshed crit fails until he stopped (unstoppably) beating me to death and backed off.

    the problem with using these 2 champs as examples if they have things that can passively fail besides the action that you are doing and there is no way to know what ability is failing, and therefore causing the crit fail damage.
    Against Domino, when Nebula holds her block, she generates charges. That’s it. Domino isn’t a robot, so her aa isn’t affected by the presence of electroshock charges. There’s no other action to fail or succeed when you’re simply holding block.

    Thing has a lot of stuff going on, but by looking at what’s supposed to happen and didn’t, you see what failed. When hit with what would be a bleed, he loses 3 stacks (failed). Then when hit at 15+ stacks he goes unstoppable (worked), and loses 3 (failed), then at 15+ stacks his special 1 is unblockable (worked) and he loses his stacks (failed), still at 15+ stacks his special 1 is again unblockable (worked) and he loses stacks (failed). Once the action (losing stacks) failed, it continued to fail until he backed off and the crit fail passive finished.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    BigPoppaCBONE said:

    Lormif said:

    BigPoppaCBONE said:

    Lormif said:

    Crit failure is not doing that, it is the aar, crit failure is just damage when one of their abilities fail, it has no aar of its own

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    - Crit failure has no innate connection to dominos aar
    - Triggering crit failure rapidly in succession is actually the best strategy right after not triggering it at all
    - read dominos ability sheet for further information

    When I say “crit fail” I mean that her passive procs. It is a visible indication that an ability has failed. Not that the passive caused a failure. I never said it did. If it is refreshing continuously, the associated effects will continue to fail, regardless of the probability involved. Her aar is not 100%.
    It’s great if you can use it against her, I used Star-Lord and his crappy aa to crush her when she first appeared. I believe that behavior was intended. I don’t think the Nebula and Thing interactions are.
    You did though
    BigPoppaCBONE said:

    Thing and Nebula both had continuous crit fails that I don’t think are the intended behavior. I was fighting Domino with Nebula and blocking, which caused me to crit fail my charge, but it never went away and I continued to rapidly refresh crit fails as long as I blocked gaining no charges. This happens whenever a charge crit fails. I’d have to stop charging, let the crit fail finish out and not do anything else that would proc one before that. Then I could do something that may or may not fail.

    With Thing, I pushed him to 15 charges and his removing and converting them crit failed, keeping him at 15 and preventing me from hitting him. It rapidly refreshed crit fails until he stopped (unstoppably) beating me to death and backed off.

    the problem with using these 2 champs as examples if they have things that can passively fail besides the action that you are doing and there is no way to know what ability is failing, and therefore causing the crit fail damage.
    Against Domino, when Nebula holds her block, she generates charges. That’s it. Domino isn’t a robot, so her aa isn’t affected by the presence of electroshock charges. There’s no other action to fail or succeed when you’re simply holding block.

    Thing has a lot of stuff going on, but by looking at what’s supposed to happen and didn’t, you see what failed. When hit with what would be a bleed, he loses 3 stacks (failed). Then when hit at 15+ stacks he goes unstoppable (worked), and loses 3 (failed), then at 15+ stacks his special 1 is unblockable (worked) and he loses his stacks (failed), still at 15+ stacks his special 1 is again unblockable (worked) and he loses stacks (failed). Once the action (losing stacks) failed, it continued to fail until he backed off and the crit fail passive finished.
    No it is not it

    When Nebula is out of Self-Repair charges, she tries to recalibrate her implants, granting her a 80.18% chance to regain a charge every 10 seconds.

    As for thing there are passive furies that can spawn when he loses charges, such as after he went unstoppable with more than 15 stacks when they time out.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 2,277 ★★★★★
    UmbertoDelRio said:

    BigPoppaCBONE said:

    Lormif said:

    BigPoppaCBONE said:

    Lormif said:

    Crit failure is not doing that, it is the aar, crit failure is just damage when one of their abilities fail, it has no aar of its own

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    - Crit failure has no innate connection to dominos aar
    - Triggering crit failure rapidly in succession is actually the best strategy right after not triggering it at all
    - read dominos ability sheet for further information

    When I say “crit fail” I mean that her passive procs. It is a visible indication that an ability has failed. Not that the passive caused a failure. I never said it did. If it is refreshing continuously, the associated effects will continue to fail, regardless of the probability involved. Her aar is not 100%.
    It’s great if you can use it against her, I used Star-Lord and his crappy aa to crush her when she first appeared. I believe that behavior was intended. I don’t think the Nebula and Thing interactions are.
    You did though
    BigPoppaCBONE said:

    Thing and Nebula both had continuous crit fails that I don’t think are the intended behavior. I was fighting Domino with Nebula and blocking, which caused me to crit fail my charge, but it never went away and I continued to rapidly refresh crit fails as long as I blocked gaining no charges. This happens whenever a charge crit fails. I’d have to stop charging, let the crit fail finish out and not do anything else that would proc one before that. Then I could do something that may or may not fail.

    With Thing, I pushed him to 15 charges and his removing and converting them crit failed, keeping him at 15 and preventing me from hitting him. It rapidly refreshed crit fails until he stopped (unstoppably) beating me to death and backed off.

    the problem with using these 2 champs as examples if they have things that can passively fail besides the action that you are doing and there is no way to know what ability is failing, and therefore causing the crit fail damage.
    Against Domino, when Nebula holds her block, she generates charges. That’s it. Domino isn’t a robot, so her aa isn’t affected by the presence of electroshock charges. There’s no other action to fail or succeed when you’re simply holding block.

    Thing has a lot of stuff going on, but by looking at what’s supposed to happen and didn’t, you see what failed. When hit with what would be a bleed, he loses 3 stacks (failed). Then when hit at 15+ stacks he goes unstoppable (worked), and loses 3 (failed), then at 15+ stacks his special 1 is unblockable (worked) and he loses his stacks (failed), still at 15+ stacks his special 1 is again unblockable (worked) and he loses stacks (failed). Once the action (losing stacks) failed, it continued to fail until he backed off and the crit fail passive finished.
    What? How is that relevant? Nebula isn't immune to dominos innate aar, which can absolutely reduce the chance of her charge mechanic working.

    And if any aspect of it doesn't work, boom crit failure.

    And from the rest I'm still not sure whether you really understand what crit failure does.

    Not trying to be rude, it's just that the way you phrase this is very weird. Again, crit failure has nothing to do with aar. It does not make abilities fail. It is just energy damage nothing else and it triggers whenever any ability that did have a chance to trigger does not trigger.

    That's all. I don't really get what the problem is lol.
    The problem is that the abilities continue to fail until the crit failure passive finishes, not that they initially fail. I’m trying to be as clear as possible. If there are better, less confusing terms, I’m all ears. The probability of Nebula failing her charge even 5 times in a row given Domino’s 15% aar is 0.000076. If it fails once, it will continue to fail until the passive finishes if she maintains the block. If you let it go, the passive finishes. If you start blocking again, the cycle of crit failures and no charges can happen again.

    I’m not saying that the failure is caused by the passive, the passive is showing that the ability is failing over and over again until it completes.

    Is that clearer?
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 2,277 ★★★★★
    UmbertoDelRio said:

    BigPoppaCBONE said:

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    BigPoppaCBONE said:

    Lormif said:

    BigPoppaCBONE said:

    Lormif said:

    Crit failure is not doing that, it is the aar, crit failure is just damage when one of their abilities fail, it has no aar of its own

    UmbertoDelRio said:

    - Crit failure has no innate connection to dominos aar
    - Triggering crit failure rapidly in succession is actually the best strategy right after not triggering it at all
    - read dominos ability sheet for further information

    When I say “crit fail” I mean that her passive procs. It is a visible indication that an ability has failed. Not that the passive caused a failure. I never said it did. If it is refreshing continuously, the associated effects will continue to fail, regardless of the probability involved. Her aar is not 100%.
    It’s great if you can use it against her, I used Star-Lord and his crappy aa to crush her when she first appeared. I believe that behavior was intended. I don’t think the Nebula and Thing interactions are.
    You did though
    BigPoppaCBONE said:

    Thing and Nebula both had continuous crit fails that I don’t think are the intended behavior. I was fighting Domino with Nebula and blocking, which caused me to crit fail my charge, but it never went away and I continued to rapidly refresh crit fails as long as I blocked gaining no charges. This happens whenever a charge crit fails. I’d have to stop charging, let the crit fail finish out and not do anything else that would proc one before that. Then I could do something that may or may not fail.

    With Thing, I pushed him to 15 charges and his removing and converting them crit failed, keeping him at 15 and preventing me from hitting him. It rapidly refreshed crit fails until he stopped (unstoppably) beating me to death and backed off.

    the problem with using these 2 champs as examples if they have things that can passively fail besides the action that you are doing and there is no way to know what ability is failing, and therefore causing the crit fail damage.
    Against Domino, when Nebula holds her block, she generates charges. That’s it. Domino isn’t a robot, so her aa isn’t affected by the presence of electroshock charges. There’s no other action to fail or succeed when you’re simply holding block.

    Thing has a lot of stuff going on, but by looking at what’s supposed to happen and didn’t, you see what failed. When hit with what would be a bleed, he loses 3 stacks (failed). Then when hit at 15+ stacks he goes unstoppable (worked), and loses 3 (failed), then at 15+ stacks his special 1 is unblockable (worked) and he loses his stacks (failed), still at 15+ stacks his special 1 is again unblockable (worked) and he loses stacks (failed). Once the action (losing stacks) failed, it continued to fail until he backed off and the crit fail passive finished.
    What? How is that relevant? Nebula isn't immune to dominos innate aar, which can absolutely reduce the chance of her charge mechanic working.

    And if any aspect of it doesn't work, boom crit failure.

    And from the rest I'm still not sure whether you really understand what crit failure does.

    Not trying to be rude, it's just that the way you phrase this is very weird. Again, crit failure has nothing to do with aar. It does not make abilities fail. It is just energy damage nothing else and it triggers whenever any ability that did have a chance to trigger does not trigger.

    That's all. I don't really get what the problem is lol.
    The problem is that the abilities continue to fail until the crit failure passive finishes, not that they initially fail. I’m trying to be as clear as possible. If there are better, less confusing terms, I’m all ears. The probability of Nebula failing her charge even 5 times in a row given Domino’s 15% aar is 0.000076. If it fails once, it will continue to fail until the passive finishes if she maintains the block. If you let it go, the passive finishes. If you start blocking again, the cycle of crit failures and no charges can happen again.

    I’m not saying that the failure is caused by the passive, the passive is showing that the ability is failing over and over again until it completes.

    Is that clearer?
    That is clearer actually. And apologies, I certainly wasn't trying to be rude, just genuinely puzzled.

    Does it also keep failing if you drop your block, maybe dash back once and then go back to holding your block with the crit failure passive still running?

    Her charging failing continuously should not be influenced by whether the crit failure passive is running or not.

    What I would assume is that nebula holding her block and charging to gather her electric thingamadooks counts as one singular action/ability and therefore only needs to fail once to not function until you drop that input and/or do another input and then try charging again after that.

    So maybe it's not calculated as "100% chance to get 1 charge" for every time she would get a charge, but rather as "100% chance to get 1 charge every x seconds", which would mean that it would only need to fail once as I said above.

    I certainly don't know whether that's the case, but it wouldn't be too far fetched considering other wonky interactions in this game lol.
    No problem. It’s about as clear as mud and doesn’t make much sense, but is what it is. The Thing one was totally new to me although it fits with the Nebula experience.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 2,277 ★★★★★
    Agentk said:

    Do you run a point or two in perfect block because then that will activate crit failure if it fails

    I am today, but not usually and if she’s not attacking, it shouldn’t activate. If that’s the case, it should be constantly activating for most people on most fights as the percentage is so low.

    It also doesn’t activate for OML when he fails to gain a longer duration passive as a passive charge that isn’t affected by aar, but doesn’t have 100% accuracy.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 2,277 ★★★★★
    For anyone wondering, you can do the same thing with Doc Ock and his research charges. Once it failed, it continued to fail while I was hitting him. No armor up and no power lock (I’m not sure which came first as both ended up at 100 with no breakthrough effect).
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 2,277 ★★★★★
    edited January 2020
    Happened today in AW. I brought Thing against Domino for his bleed and Buffet immunity. She started in with a hit on my block, it crit failed and I continued to get my crit fail passive refreshed as long as she kept hitting me or my block. So either no rock stacks or a reduced number of rock stacks until she backed off and let the crit fail finish.

    EDIT: I forgot to mention that Thing’s sig protection failed as well. The crit fail passive just refreshed.
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