I don't care so much about the Wasp issue, I care more about the idea of whats happening. There is no basic ruleset and there are patches happening every day and with interactions that have been in the game for many many months, even years. The game is becoming significantly more complex and intricate. There needs to be a better system and better communication between the employees and their player base
There literally is a basic rule set. And the interaction that is going to get fixed is going against said basic rule set.
What are you even talking about?
Oh really? please attach the MCOC fundamentals guide that Kabam has published? I would like to read the guide and better educate myself
Are you for real?
Yes, I also wanna know which info is correct by 2 different information from 2 different people from the same company
How about the one that's literally in line with how the game works in any other interaction involving immunities...?
Again, stunning a stun immune champ with a passive stun is like bleeding a bleed immune champ with a passive bleed.
Now tell me, would it make sense for nightcrawler to bleed out ultron? No?
Follow that logic and you don't even need support to explain how the game works.
Its amazing how we are soo used to incompetent employees that cant do their job that we see no problem with it. Truly amazing. (also so you do agree that support staff dont play the game or even read the interactions right?)
Also kabam is not a single entity but the actions of people representing them affect the company...have you worked in customer service or a company in general?
Ye i work at fairly large Jewelry company in Manhattan, I know how this works. Our employees get their stuff straight most of the time.
I don't care so much about the Wasp issue, I care more about the idea of whats happening. There is no basic ruleset and there are patches happening every day and with interactions that have been in the game for many many months, even years. The game is becoming significantly more complex and intricate. There needs to be a better system and better communication between the employees and their player base
There literally is a basic rule set. And the interaction that is going to get fixed is going against said basic rule set.
What are you even talking about?
Oh really? please attach the MCOC fundamentals guide that Kabam has published? I would like to read the guide and better educate myself
Are you for real?
Yes, I also wanna know which info is correct by 2 different information from 2 different people from the same company
How about the one that's literally in line with how the game works in any other interaction involving immunities...?
Again, stunning a stun immune champ with a passive stun is like bleeding a bleed immune champ with a passive bleed.
Now tell me, would it make sense for nightcrawler to bleed out ultron? No?
Follow that logic and you don't even need support to explain how the game works.
You're getting too hung up on the wasp issue. And based on your logic you are totally correct, I dont care about the stin thing, it makes sense. But if it is so straight forward you are telling me the companies support staff doesnt know the basics? Why are they employees? Thats irresponsible on Kabams part
Just assume support usually has no idea what they’re talking about.
This is the safe assumption.
However, exactly how passive effects interact with immunities is something that I think is a deep in the weeds conversation in general. I'm not certain I believe any absolute statements about this interaction just yet. This might be a lot more ad hoc; I recall that one reason Archangel's neurotoxin stun was modified was that it was originally incorrectly tagged as a passive stun, and that passive stun was stunning otherwise stun immune targets. That suggests that at one time passive stuns were bypassing stun immunity, not just debuff immunity.
I don't care so much about the Wasp issue, I care more about the idea of whats happening. There is no basic ruleset and there are patches happening every day and with interactions that have been in the game for many many months, even years. The game is becoming significantly more complex and intricate. There needs to be a better system and better communication between the employees and their player base
There literally is a basic rule set. And the interaction that is going to get fixed is going against said basic rule set.
What are you even talking about?
Oh really? please attach the MCOC fundamentals guide that Kabam has published? I would like to read the guide and better educate myself
Are you for real?
Yeah I am, every game has a user guide. We need to know how this stuff works so that we know how to proceed when fishy stuff happens. Otherwise we are at their mercy and anything goes
That's how every game works
Not really. Many games only have fan-made wikis. Some games have nothing.
The different interactions of passive and active effects are self explanatory, as long as you play the game and read some stuff.
Now, if you don't understand the difference between active and passive effects I'll gladly explain them to you.
I've been playing for three years, I am pretty advanced, I understand, I am not harping on the Wasp issue, I'm focusing on a far greater one.
Which is... What exactly? A customer support employee that is supposed to handle all kinds of account/software/hardware/purchase related issues giving a wrong answer regarding an in-game interaction that is so wrong and illogical anyone who played this game for a while should be able to figure out on their own?
Wow. Massive issue. Stop the engines, folks, our customer support said something obviously wrong. People might try to monetize it.
Umm no not at all what I meant. That's a childs response to the question. If you dont know an answer to a question you dont answer it, and if it is incorrect you apologize and figure out the right answer. Thats how the real world works (at least with a successful company, I should know).
Just assume support usually has no idea what they’re talking about.
This is the safe assumption.
However, exactly how passive effects interact with immunities is something that I think is a deep in the weeds conversation in general. I'm not certain I believe any absolute statements about this interaction just yet. This might be a lot more ad hoc; I recall that one reason Archangel's neurotoxin stun was modified was that it was originally incorrectly tagged as a passive stun, and that passive stun was stunning otherwise stun immune targets. That suggests that at one time passive stuns were bypassing stun immunity, not just debuff immunity.
All of this makes sense, but if someone as knowledgeable as you is having issue then that is proof there needs to be guidelines set so that both the company and players can be as educated and helpful to the community and the game as possible
Also kabam is not a single entity but the actions of people representing them affect the company...have you worked in customer service or a company in general?
Ye i work at fairly large Jewelry company in Manhattan, I know how this works. Our employees get their stuff straight most of the time.
So you've seen one video. How many times did you contact support for in-game interactions and got a wrong answer?
Come on. Kabam has shown a lot of incompetence in the past few weeks, but that was on the devs. You're blowing this way out of proportion.
You can't tell me the customer support of your company never made a mistake, especially such an obvious one. But you decided to open this thread because of one example in one video?
Come on.
That is not the case. First off I have had terribly poor interactions with Kabam support in the past and since have stopped contacting them. But secondly, my response is a result of many issues and problems that the game has had in the past few months. Devs not responding, bugs flying everywhere and crashes. At a certain point people will break. Alot of us spend a ton of money here and we feel like we are being treated like garbage. Not to speak about the companies intentions, because I am sure that is not what they want to do. But you have to be real and realize that there are fundamental issues with the company and the game at the moment. It is all trickling down and we can see the cracks forming.
Please dont take what I say out anger at you or anyone here, but more as frustration. I would rather have a few months heavy fixes over more content and champions. If I did'nt care about this game I wouldnt be posting here.
AA was another example. At the time of his fix, it was clearly stated that no Champ should be able to bypass Stun Immune..
That's actually the point. Kabam said no champ should be able to bypass stun immunity, and took the passive stun away from neurotoxin. But with Wasp, they are saying passive stuns don't bypass stun immunity only debuff immunity. So clearly the behavior of passive effects has changed over time.
@UmbertoDelRio And yeah my employees mess up every so often, but thats common, human error, if they messed up on a daily basis. There would either be fires or I would have to figure out the source of the confusion. Either way, I would need to solve the larger issue at hand
AA was another example. At the time of his fix, it was clearly stated that no Champ should be able to bypass Stun Immune..
That's actually the point. Kabam said no champ should be able to bypass stun immunity, and took the passive stun away from neurotoxin. But with Wasp, they are saying passive stuns don't bypass stun immunity only debuff immunity. So clearly the behavior of passive effects has changed over time.
If that's how it was bypassing it, then I suppose you're correct. I'd say it's a case of allowing it to bypass all but Stun Immunity. I'd suspect they had to code the exception.
Also kabam is not a single entity but the actions of people representing them affect the company...have you worked in customer service or a company in general?
Ye i work at fairly large Jewelry company in Manhattan, I know how this works. Our employees get their stuff straight most of the time.
So you've seen one video. How many times did you contact support for in-game interactions and got a wrong answer?
Come on. Kabam has shown a lot of incompetence in the past few weeks, but that was on the devs. You're blowing this way out of proportion.
You can't tell me the customer support of your company never made a mistake, especially such an obvious one. But you decided to open this thread because of one example in one video?
Come on.
That is not the case. First off I have had terribly poor interactions with Kabam support in the past and since have stopped contacting them. But secondly, my response is a result of many issues and problems that the game has had in the past few months. Devs not responding, bugs flying everywhere and crashes. At a certain point people will break. Alot of us spend a ton of money here and we feel like we are being treated like garbage. Not to speak about the companies intentions, because I am sure that is not what they want to do. But you have to be real and realize that there are fundamental issues with the company and the game at the moment. It is all trickling down and we can see the cracks forming.
Please dont take what I say out anger at you or anyone here, but more as frustration. I would rather have a few months heavy fixes over more content and champions. If I did'nt care about this game I wouldnt be posting here.
Sure, I get that. There have been a lot of issues.
But is that the straw that broke the camel's back? That's just silly. No offense, but all you do here is promote a awfully misinformed video.
And while you might not be on about the wasp issue, you're still helping to spread misinformation about it.
That's the issue I have with your thread, now that we're letting the cats out of their bags.
First off, he is not misinformed, I doubt you even watched the video. He clearly says that he doesn't care about the wasp issue as much as the precedent that their employees are clearly inconsistent or misinformed. Everything you just agreed with me on, KT1 said. So yeah, you never watched his video. He states all of this pretty clearly. He is no Prof Hoff
I mean they said it on her spot light last year so s misinformed employee
Ok, so then there is a serious problem with misinformation within the company. This is not the first time. There needs to be action taken one way or the other
Support has always been less than helpful in terms of situations like this. Its exactly why the forums exist.
I mean they said it on her spot light last year so s misinformed employee
Ok, so then there is a serious problem with misinformation within the company. This is not the first time. There needs to be action taken one way or the other
Support has always been less than helpful in terms of situations like this. Its exactly why the forums exist.
Also kabam is not a single entity but the actions of people representing them affect the company...have you worked in customer service or a company in general?
Ye i work at fairly large Jewelry company in Manhattan, I know how this works. Our employees get their stuff straight most of the time.
"Most of the time". So you, or your employees/coworkers have been wrong in the past. Most of the time means you've been wrong on more than one occasion and you say it like it was ok for you to be wrong, but this one incident that comes from a YouTube video and can't be 100% verified as true, isn't ok?
People in a job are bound be wrong. In this case, support is wrong. You have to use logic when looking at these situations.
Wasps stun is passive. Debuffs are active. Immunities to bleed/stun/poison are passive. Wasp cant stun a stun immune because that ability is passive. Wasp can stun a debuff immune because her stun is passive. Its not hard to understand.
Again, people are wrong all the time. You're just hanging on to this one little bit of misinformation to make the argument valid.
I mean they said it on her spot light last year so s misinformed employee
Ok, so then there is a serious problem with misinformation within the company. This is not the first time. There needs to be action taken one way or the other
Support has always been less than helpful in terms of situations like this. Its exactly why the forums exist.
There is something inherently wrong about that
I only ever use support to report a bug type issue, never to get information. I only come to the forums for information since Mods are there with the devs.
Also kabam is not a single entity but the actions of people representing them affect the company...have you worked in customer service or a company in general?
Ye i work at fairly large Jewelry company in Manhattan, I know how this works. Our employees get their stuff straight most of the time.
"Most of the time". So you, or your employees/coworkers have been wrong in the past. Most of the time means you've been wrong on more than one occasion and you say it like it was ok for you to be wrong, but this one incident that comes from a YouTube video and can't be 100% verified as true, isn't ok?
People in a job are bound be wrong. In this case, support is wrong. You have to use logic when looking at these situations.
Wasps stun is passive. Debuffs are active. Immunities to bleed/stun/poison are passive. Wasp cant stun a stun immune because that ability is passive. Wasp can stun a debuff immune because her stun is passive. Its not hard to understand.
Again, people are wrong all the time. You're just hanging on to this one little bit of misinformation to make the argument valid.
No i am not hanging on for that reason. So you're saying its okay for their employees to be wrong as often as possible? We all know there is a severe issue with misinformation in this game, by devs, support and others.
Also kabam is not a single entity but the actions of people representing them affect the company...have you worked in customer service or a company in general?
Ye i work at fairly large Jewelry company in Manhattan, I know how this works. Our employees get their stuff straight most of the time.
So you've seen one video. How many times did you contact support for in-game interactions and got a wrong answer?
Come on. Kabam has shown a lot of incompetence in the past few weeks, but that was on the devs. You're blowing this way out of proportion.
You can't tell me the customer support of your company never made a mistake, especially such an obvious one. But you decided to open this thread because of one example in one video?
Come on.
That is not the case. First off I have had terribly poor interactions with Kabam support in the past and since have stopped contacting them. But secondly, my response is a result of many issues and problems that the game has had in the past few months. Devs not responding, bugs flying everywhere and crashes. At a certain point people will break. Alot of us spend a ton of money here and we feel like we are being treated like garbage. Not to speak about the companies intentions, because I am sure that is not what they want to do. But you have to be real and realize that there are fundamental issues with the company and the game at the moment. It is all trickling down and we can see the cracks forming.
Please dont take what I say out anger at you or anyone here, but more as frustration. I would rather have a few months heavy fixes over more content and champions. If I did'nt care about this game I wouldnt be posting here.
Sure, I get that. There have been a lot of issues.
But is that the straw that broke the camel's back? That's just silly. No offense, but all you do here is promote a awfully misinformed video.
And while you might not be on about the wasp issue, you're still helping to spread misinformation about it.
That's the issue I have with your thread, now that we're letting the cats out of their bags.
First off, he is not misinformed, I doubt you even watched the video. He clearly says that he doesn't care about the wasp issue as much as the precedent that their employees are clearly inconsistent or misinformed. Everything you just agreed with me on, KT1 said. So yeah, you never watched his video. He states all of this pretty clearly. He is no Prof Hoff
Did you watch the video...? Excuse me, but he genuinely starts by explaining how he found the explanation regarding wasps fix understandable and logical and then throws all that out the window to paint that support message as some kind of an equally valid piece of information, without even once mentioning how is does not make a bit of sense in terms of the explanation he found logical just a few minutes ago.
He even advises people to take this message as a valid piece of information, directly implying they should show it around and use it as an argument.
Yes, he talks about kabam support contradicting an official statement, the latter of which, and I'm certain of that, goes through a lot more double checking processes than a simple answer from one support employee. But he does not say that on the basis of "this statement here makes sense in line of how the game works in this regard in any other situation, but this message here does not and contradicts the first statement."
He paints it as valid information and tries to stir up users.
Like, share and subscribe ladida freaking da.
I don't see KT1 as someone who would want to stir up users on no basis at all. You have to remember he is a highly respected player in the community and one who is held in high regard by Kabam and the devs as well.
Also kabam is not a single entity but the actions of people representing them affect the company...have you worked in customer service or a company in general?
Ye i work at fairly large Jewelry company in Manhattan, I know how this works. Our employees get their stuff straight most of the time.
"Most of the time". So you, or your employees/coworkers have been wrong in the past. Most of the time means you've been wrong on more than one occasion and you say it like it was ok for you to be wrong, but this one incident that comes from a YouTube video and can't be 100% verified as true, isn't ok?
People in a job are bound be wrong. In this case, support is wrong. You have to use logic when looking at these situations.
Wasps stun is passive. Debuffs are active. Immunities to bleed/stun/poison are passive. Wasp cant stun a stun immune because that ability is passive. Wasp can stun a debuff immune because her stun is passive. Its not hard to understand.
Again, people are wrong all the time. You're just hanging on to this one little bit of misinformation to make the argument valid.
No i am not hanging on for that reason. So you're saying its okay for their employees to be wrong as often as possible? We all know there is a severe issue with misinformation in this game, by devs, support and others.
Im not saying that at all. I know what their support is. They are contracted workers that copy and paste scripts and have basic replies to issues sent. They aren't at Kabam headquarters and are likely work from home or in India. They don't have anything to do with the game. Certain issues get sent up the chain for a more official response. Other than that they have a situation document that outlines how to respond.
This is common for companies like this. Doesn't make it right but again, its why we have the forums who are a direct link to Kabam.
Comments
However, exactly how passive effects interact with immunities is something that I think is a deep in the weeds conversation in general. I'm not certain I believe any absolute statements about this interaction just yet. This might be a lot more ad hoc; I recall that one reason Archangel's neurotoxin stun was modified was that it was originally incorrectly tagged as a passive stun, and that passive stun was stunning otherwise stun immune targets. That suggests that at one time passive stuns were bypassing stun immunity, not just debuff immunity.
Please dont take what I say out anger at you or anyone here, but more as frustration. I would rather have a few months heavy fixes over more content and champions. If I did'nt care about this game I wouldnt be posting here.
People in a job are bound be wrong. In this case, support is wrong. You have to use logic when looking at these situations.
Wasps stun is passive.
Debuffs are active.
Immunities to bleed/stun/poison are passive.
Wasp cant stun a stun immune because that ability is passive.
Wasp can stun a debuff immune because her stun is passive.
Its not hard to understand.
Again, people are wrong all the time. You're just hanging on to this one little bit of misinformation to make the argument valid.
This is common for companies like this. Doesn't make it right but again, its why we have the forums who are a direct link to Kabam.