How to ‘activate’ Electra’s 85% reduced DAA on opponent?

I am starting this thread as I wish to really understand this specific ability.
Bugs aside [if it still exists], how does it work and what is this Debuff?
Is the Debuff effect taking effect only during bleed and duration of armor break?

I give an example here on how I understand it and many thanks to point out inaccuracies.

1/ At the start of fight; nothing happens.
Correct?

2a/ First parry, and opponent is stunned.
Does this count as a debuff effect?
If yes, it’s strange as opponent can’t retaliate, so there is no DAA working?

2b/ Hitting opponent with any combination of Light, Medium or Heavy attack
Does this count as a debuff effect?
If yes, same as 2a/

3/ Opponent’s bleed and armor break on Special
I count the number of seconds while bleeding or armor break is on and opponent’s DAA is reduced by 85%.
Is this correct?

4a/ When opponent’s health drops to below 25%
I am clueless on what is Final Strike. Is this the Debuff?

4b/ For unawakened Electra, and opponent’s health drops to below 15%
Is this the Debuff?

5/ Is opponent’s passive defensive ability affected?

6/ Does She-Hulk automatically reduces Electra’s abilities?

a/ is it an iteration; champs ability affecting one another in a loop or

b/ is it a one off sequence; Electra will always come out worse off against She-Hulk with that ability to reduce opponent’s DAA by 85% being reduced by 14.04%?

Many thanks for all the help.

Comments

DNA3000

winterthur wrote: »

1/ At the start of fight; nothing happens.
Correct?

For the most part, yes. However, there are times when the opponent has debuffs on them right at the start of the fight, for example if you are fighting against other player champions in the arena and they have the liquid courage or double edge masteries, then they would have a bleed or poison debuff effect on them immediately, and they would then be subject to Elektra's defensive ability accuracy reduction.

2a/ First parry, and opponent is stunned.
Does this count as a debuff effect?
If yes, it’s strange as opponent can’t retaliate, so there is no DAA working?

Yes. Important to note that defensive ability accuracy is the chance for the enemy to trigger a defensive ability in response to an attack. So it is not strange at all that a stun would act as a debuff to enable Elektra's DAA, since Elektra can still attack the enemy when the enemy is stunned. I think you have this backwards.

2b/ Hitting opponent with any combination of Light, Medium or Heavy attack
Does this count as a debuff effect?
If yes, same as 2a/

No, attacks are not debuff effects. A debuff effect is a negative effect placed on a champion like bleed, poison, stun, weakness, etc. Generally debuff effects are displayed as small icons just below the health bar of the champion in a fight. Most relevant to Elektra is that she has two debuff effects in her attacks: bleed, and armor break. Elektra triggers armor break against foes that are immune to bleed.

3/ Opponent’s bleed and armor break on Special
I count the number of seconds while bleeding or armor break is on and opponent’s DAA is reduced by 85%.
Is this correct?

Yes.

4a/ When opponent’s health drops to below 25%
I am clueless on what is Final Strike. Is this the Debuff?

No. Final strike causes Elektra's damage to increase when the opponent is below a certain level of health. This works similar to the mastery called "assassins."

4b/ For unawakened Electra, and opponent’s health drops to below 15%
Is this the Debuff?

No. This is just the same as above, but it takes lower health to trigger. Awakening Elektra allows this damage boost to take effect sooner.

5/ Is opponent’s passive defensive ability affected?

Generally, when something is said to affect "defensive ability accuracy" as far as I'm aware that affects abilities that trigger in reaction to getting hit or when health drops. I'm not sure what you mean by passive defensive ability. If you mean things like Ultron's heal, then yes.

6/ Does She-Hulk automatically reduces Electra’s abilities?

If memory serves correctly, She-Hulk's signature ability verses Skill champions is to reduce their critical hit chance. This is unrelated to Elektra's ability accuracy reduction ability.

unknown

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winterthur

DNA3000 wrote: »

5/ Is opponent’s passive defensive ability affected?

Generally, when something is said to affect "defensive ability accuracy" as far as I'm aware that affects abilities that trigger in reaction to getting hit or when health drops. I'm not sure what you mean by passive defensive ability. If you mean things like Ultron's heal, then yes.

I was trying to avoid using the two champs in mind, Elektro and Spider-man in relation to passive defensive ability as I was unsure if that was Offensive or Defensive ability.

On Spider-man, the word Passive was not indicated.

On Electro, it is indicated.

Are those two the same and can be impacted by Elektra's ability?

On She-Hulks ability, I had it on the initial post with a two part question and a screenshot. Perhaps you missed it?

420down

When electro is parry stunned elektra has 85% chance to not take damage from static shock. Or when he has a bleed or poison de buff, bleed from her specials/double edge, poison from liquid courage, she has 85% to not take static damage.

Works the same on a thorn node.

420down

Morgan wrote: »

All said above is true aside from 4a.

It's not Elektra's dmg going up, is her critical chanche. Under 25% enemie's hp all of her hits are guaranteed critical hits.

No. She gets all crits when opponents below 15%. This is not an awakened ability. Her awakened ability is that her damage goes up when her opponents are below 25%. Two different things.

unknown

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Noobeeus

winterthur wrote: »

DNA3000 wrote: »

5/ Is opponent’s passive defensive ability affected?

Generally, when something is said to affect "defensive ability accuracy" as far as I'm aware that affects abilities that trigger in reaction to getting hit or when health drops. I'm not sure what you mean by passive defensive ability. If you mean things like Ultron's heal, then yes.

I was trying to avoid using the two champs in mind, Elektro and Spider-man in relation to passive defensive ability as I was unsure if that was Offensive or Defensive ability.

On Spider-man, the word Passive was not indicated.

On Electro, it is indicated.

Are those two the same and can be impacted by Elektra's ability?

On She-Hulks ability, I had it on the initial post with a two part question and a screenshot. Perhaps you missed it?

It doesn't matter whether it is a signature ability (spider-man) or a pssive ability (electro) if it is a 'DEFENSIVE ABILITY' then Elektra's signature comes into play.

Viper1987

winterthur wrote: »

DNA3000 wrote: »

5/ Is opponent’s passive defensive ability affected?

Generally, when something is said to affect "defensive ability accuracy" as far as I'm aware that affects abilities that trigger in reaction to getting hit or when health drops. I'm not sure what you mean by passive defensive ability. If you mean things like Ultron's heal, then yes.

I was trying to avoid using the two champs in mind, Elektro and Spider-man in relation to passive defensive ability as I was unsure if that was Offensive or Defensive ability.

On Spider-man, the word Passive was not indicated.

On Electro, it is indicated.

Are those two the same and can be impacted by Elektra's ability?

On She-Hulks ability, I had it on the initial post with a two part question and a screenshot. Perhaps you missed it?

Spider-Man's signature is considered a defensive ability. Electro's signature is just a passive ability. For the most part there's 3 ability types: offensive, defensive, and passive. Offensive abilities trigger when you attack and are notated in abilities as "When Attacking". Defensive abilities happen when being attack notated by "When Attacked". Passive abilities are just abilities that are always activated notated by "Passive". Usually passive abilities are only negated by concussion and now hex from Hood.

Delta_14

Morgan wrote: »

420down wrote: »

Morgan wrote: »

All said above is true aside from 4a.

It's not Elektra's dmg going up, is her critical chanche. Under 25% enemie's hp all of her hits are guaranteed critical hits.

No. She gets all crits when opponents below 15%. This is not an awakened ability. Her awakened ability is that her damage goes up when her opponents are below 25%. Two different things.

Nope.

Final strike= guaranteed crits under 15% enemie's hp

Signature: final strike triggers at 25% hp left instead of 15%.

check again

Not quite.

Final strike: guaranteed critical hits when enemy is under 15% health

Signature: guaranteed critical hits when enemy is under 25% health AND critical hits strike for increased damage.

DNA3000

winterthur wrote: »

Are those two the same and can be impacted by Elektra's ability?

On She-Hulks ability, I had it on the initial post with a two part question and a screenshot. Perhaps you missed it?

I assumed my answer addressed both, but I'll elaborate.

First, She Hulk's signature ability affects different champions in different ways based on class. According to a post I found on Reddit, this is which stat is affected based on class:

Science: Lower Physical Resistance
Mystic: Slower Power Gain
Cosmic: Lesser Buff Duration
Tech: Smaller chance to trigger Abilities (Armor Up, Fury, etc.)
Mutant: Less Special Damage
Skill: Lower Critical Chance

Elektra is a skill champion, so when fighting She Hulk Elektra's critical rating - which is her chance to crit - is reduced. That will not affect Elektra's ability accuracy reduction. So there's no possible way for this ability to affect Elektra's ability accuracy reduction in a chain reaction. Meanwhile, I don't think Elektra's defensive ability accuracy reduction affects She Hulk's signature either, because She Hulk's signature ability is not a defensive ability trigger - it doesn't have a chance to take effect that Elektra can reduce.

But let's drill in deeper into your question about Electro and Spiderman. Spiderman has an ability that is described as "when attacked" which means basically it is a defensive trigger: it triggers when Spiderman is attacked. So Elektra's ability accuracy reduction can reduce the chance for Spiderman to trigger that ability. That ability happens to be an evade, so Elektra can reduce Spiderman's chance to evade an attack.

Electro's signature is described as "passive" which means it is an always on ability. That means Elektra cannot affect this ability. But Electro also has a normal, non-signature ability that triggers when attacked: it is a strike-back that causes you to take damage when you attack Electro with a non-ranged attack (basically, when you physically hit him rather than shoot at him from range). Elektra's defensive ability accuracy reduction can affect this ability, reducing the chance you will take damage when you attack Electro.

Now lets look at the other part of your question: does it ever happen that a champion with defensive ability accuracy reduction attacks something that itself has ability accuracy reduction, and if so what happens? Does it "bounce back and forth" with each affecting the other? As far as I'm aware, no. It seems that every effect has a priority, an order of operation where every effect will happen in a particular order and resolve itself in that order. Take for example Ant-Man. Ant-Man has a signature ability where when you attack him there is a chance for the attack to "glance." When an attack glances, its damage is reduced and its offensive ability accuracy is reduced by 100 percentage points. In other words, for all intents and purposes the attack doesn't trigger any of its offensive abilities. So what happens when Elektra attacks Ant-Man (while under a debuff)? Answer: when the attack occurs, Ant-Man first has a chance to glance the attack. If the attack glances, Elektra's own defensive ability accuracy reduction fails to take effect: it doesn't chance the equation. You can see the net effect of this if you put Ant-Man on a thorns node in AW: if you attack Ant-Man on a thorns node with a champion with defensive ability accuracy reduction like Elektra or Black Widow, every glanced attack triggers thorns damage: their DAA doesn't work. Conversely, the DAA doesn't reduce the chance for an attack to glance. Glance happens first, then only if glance fails does DAA kick in to help the attacker (these days, of course, you're more likely to see Mordo on thorns nodes).

And of course, what happens if Elektra fights Elektra? Since both have defensive ability accuracy and that effect is itself an offensive ability, each can reduce the ability for the other to trigger defensive abilities, but neither will interfere with the other's ability to keep reducing AA, because neither can affect each other's offensive AA.

Separate from all of this, game engines do not like to compute recursive effects. It kills game engines. If A affects B and B affects A, what always happens is some version of A affects B, and then the changed B maybe affects A and that's it.

So far as I'm aware, MCOC seems to apply all passives and all syngeries on top of each other, and then when it comes to triggers offensive ability accuracy effects kick in first, then offensive abilities, then defensive ability accuracy, then defensive abilities. So when Elektra attacks most things, her offensive ability kicks in first, that happens to be an effect that reduces defensive ability accuracy, then the target's defensive abilities kick in but they are affected by that DAA so they become harder to trigger. But when Elektra attacks Ant-Man his offensive ability accuracy reduction kicks in first, that reduces Elektra's chance to trigger offensive abilities to zero, her DAA can't trigger, and her attack lands with no DAA, so any defensive abilities get to trigger normally. If there is an exception to that rule, I'm currently unaware of it.