Adding higher potency alliance pots and making them unit only

Cant say I'm surprised but it's still pretty disappointing to see honestly. Instead of just increasing potion potency like you did with questing, adding higher level potions but require using units for them is pretty lame

Comments

unknown

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VanillaCoke

The amounts have been added to the original post.

Ridiculous. The community has been asking for lower glory costs for the potions because of your push on Alliance War. Now you want to use this as a pathetic excuse of “we do listen to the community.” As if.

DNA3000

For reference purposes, the current unit costs and strength of the existing potions in the store are:

Alliance health potions (glory costs are for first purchase in cycle)
Level 1: 20 glory, 250 health (unavailable for units)
Level 2: 80 glory, 35 units, 1200 health
Level 3: 160 glory, 65 units, 3000 health
Level 4: 260 glory, 100 units, 6500 health

Alliance team health potions
Level 2: 105 units, 1550 health
Level 3: 210 units, 3900 health
Level 4: 320 units, 7800 health

Alliance team revives
Level 1: 280 glory, 350 health
Level 2: 180 units, 1650 health
Level 3: 365 units, 4200 health (also available for 92000 loyalty)

The announced numbers seem very roughly twice as high at the same tier. If the unit costs remain the same per tier, that is not a bad improvement overall. If the unit costs scale up with the health restored that's not all that great: it just means in effect the item cap in alliance events was doubled.

SparkAlot

This seems to be a step in the right direction at least, but why should Kabam bother doing anything if an unambiguously positive step is seen as just a cash grab, a move that cannot *possibly* gain them any more cash?

Since we are still dealing with a limit on the # items you can use in war, it is forcing people to go for the 'bigger bang' potions so they can top off before fights, or run the risk of iteming out with the 'normal' potions.

Max glory pot is 6000 health.
Max $ pot is now 27,000 health.
That is quite the advantage for people that throw $ in AW.

I don't see why they can't appease everyone, and offer a lvl 5 & lvl 6 in the glory store, have it like you can buy 2, then if you need more, you use units.

DNA3000

The amounts have been added to the original post.
Loool the amounts are ridiculous 😱 200% pay to win from now on since you only need a lvl3 team revive and a lvl6 team potion to fully heal up (actually you almost need all 15 items for that). Damn I'll quit there is no more competition possible with the whales

There's a real irony in the hyperbole here. A lot of people seem to think adding more and more value to the things we pay for is a player-benefiting move. But that depends greatly on whether you compare yourself to the people who spend less than you, or the people who spend more than you.

Kabam Miike

Added the Unit Cost for the ones available in the Unit Store. The Level 6 ones have been removed because we don't intend to make those available yet.

DNA3000

This seems to be a step in the right direction at least, but why should Kabam bother doing anything if an unambiguously positive step is seen as just a cash grab, a move that cannot *possibly* gain them any more cash?
Since we are still dealing with a limit on the # items you can use in war, it is forcing people to go for the 'bigger bang' potions so they can top off before fights, or run the risk of iteming out with the 'normal' potions.

Max glory pot is 6000 health.
Max $ pot is now 27,000 health.
That is quite the advantage for people that throw $ in AW.

I don't see why they can't appease everyone, and offer a lvl 5 & lvl 6 in the glory store, have it like you can buy 2, then if you need more, you use units.

I wouldn't be opposed to that, although given the stated intent by @Kabam Miike the glory store versions of those would probably be weaker than the announced strength so that the potions players have to spend units on are stronger than the ones they can buy with glory.

Although we can grind for units, people often treat unit purchases as if they were cash purchases. I wonder if players actually buy into the notion that the unit potions should in fact be stronger. In almost every other case players generally tend to agree with the principle that if you're paying cash you should get more than if you're paying units, and if you're paying units you should be getting more than if you're paying some other currency. You can pretty much bet on it at least here on the forums. *I* personally don't think that should be true, and *especially* when it comes to competitive game modes like Alliance War (less so for Alliance Quest). Maybe this is a case where even the majority of players think we shouldn't do this.

Do the players think the players spending units on Alliance War potions should get more value than the players spending glory on potions? Or is this a place where we don't want that purchasing advantage to exist? Maybe the developers aren't even reading the playerbase right on this one.

KnightZero

Do players think the players spending units on Alliance War potions should get more value than the players spending glory on potions? Or is this a place where we don't want that purchasing advantage to exist? Maybe the developers aren't even reading the playerbase right on this one.

So seeing the updated costs for the potions, I'd honestly say it's a solid deal. Compared to what I thought, the prices aren't high at all. The old 100 unit 6k potion is now 100 unit 14k health potion. But again, provides a disparity among the people willing to spend units on potions and those who don't. For AW, I honestly feel that everyone should be on the same level for items.
Best thing would be to introduce these potions in the glory store, but reduce the amount you can buy. Will cater to both ends of the player base.

DNA3000

This is a comparison of the unit costs for comparable potions based on the posted unit costs:

Alliance health potions
Level 1: 250->500 health (no unit costs)
Level 2: 35-30 units, 1200->2500 health
Level 3: 65->60 units, 3000->6000 health
Level 4: 100->80 units, 6500->9500 health
Level 5: NA->100 units, NA->14000 health

Alliance team health potions
Level 1: 325->750 health (no unit costs)
Level 2: 105->100 units, 1550->3400 health
Level 3: 210->200 units, 3900->8100 health
Level 4: 320->300 units, 7800->14500 health
Level 5: NA->350 units, NA->20000 health

Alliance team revives
Level 1: 350->700 health (no unit costs)
Level 2: 180->180 units, 1650->4000 health
Level 3: 365->360 units, 4200->10000 health

Generally the potions are slightly cheaper, and generally on the order of about twice as strong.

DNA3000

Another comparison, this one compares the Health points restored per unit spent:

Generally speaking, the larger the potion the better the bang for your buck. Interestingly, in every case the worst (smallest) of the new potions has a better return than the best (largest) of the current potions, in terms of health restored per unit spent. In fact, the tier 5 team health potions returns almost as much health per team member per unit as the current tier 4 single alliance health potion does now to a single champion. Also, the new tier 3 alliance team revive restores more health than using a current tier 2 team revive and a tier 4 team health potion combined while costing 140 units less.

I can't imagine anyone is going to think this is not good for AQ. Whether it is good for AW depends greatly on how you view the competition in AW.

Seraphion

Its time for better value on glory items.
You threw ultra hard global nodes at us in war T1-5. Yet glory heals remain unchanged. Change the 6k heals in 9k heals and everytone will be happy.

Come on guys

Worknprogress

Added the Unit Cost for the ones available in the Unit Store. The Level 6 ones have been removed because we don't intend to make those available yet.

So is it just the unit lv4 pots that will have the health increase to 9.5k or is it the ones in the glory store as well as you said the potions in the glory store won't be changing? So we'll have 2 separate inventory slots for lv4 pots if the ones for glory don't change?

Kabam Miike

Added the Unit Cost for the ones available in the Unit Store. The Level 6 ones have been removed because we don't intend to make those available yet.
So is it just the unit lv4 pots that will have the health increase to 9.5k or is it the ones in the glory store as well as you said the potions in the glory store won't be changing? So we'll have 2 separate inventory slots for lv4 pots if the ones for glory don't change?

3 Different spots, actually. The current ones (the ones in the Glory Store), ones for Alliance Wars, and ones for Alliance Quests.

unknown

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DNA3000

Another comparison, this one compares the Health points restored per unit spent:

Generally speaking, the larger the potion the better the bang for your buck. Interestingly, in every case the worst (smallest) of the new potions has a better return than the best (largest) of the current potions, in terms of health restored per unit spent. In fact, the tier 5 team health potions returns almost as much health per team member per unit as the current tier 4 single alliance health potion does now to a single champion. Also, the new tier 3 alliance team revive restores more health than using a current tier 2 team revive and a tier 4 team health potion combined while costing 140 units less.

I can't imagine anyone is going to think this is not good for AQ. Whether it is good for AW depends greatly on how you view the competition in AW.
@DNA3000 you might be right it's good for those who buy potions with units but for all ftp accs it's BS because units are rare and better used in mastery and other areas of the game...

I'm above 10k PI and played up to P1 and never used units for AW revives but now with this change and the BS global nodes it's even more difficult to stay competitive

Yes, that is the issue I mentioned above in earlier posts and referenced in the post you quoted. Not to dismiss the issue in AQ, but this is much less of an issue in AQ, but much more of an issue in AW. And it is one I don't think there's going to be general consensus on, having seen the history of this discussion in the past. If potions in AW are expensive, some people complain it is a cash grab. If potions in AW become too cheap, some people complain this devalues good gameplay: someone who takes huge damage (but doesn't die) can just spend to heal up and ends up doing just as well or better than someone that plays skillfully and doesn't take any damage.

Even glory store potions are not immune to this problem. Glory is not unlimited for most players, and any player spending tons of glory on potions is losing the opportunity to spend that glory on catalysts for advancement: they can complain that draining glory causes them to fall increasingly behind other players. There's no perfect solution here: the game has to pick a direction and then everyone else has to decide to what degree to participate in the content in that direction.

CloudOfContempt

Why are single Alliance based revives still not available for purchase anywhere? So often a team revive is overkill because only one champ that you brought may be a good option for a fight on your path. In Silver tier alliances and above, most players will not send their whole team at a fight trying to KO the opponent and then revive, they use the same champ more than once. Whether it’s for units or for glory, this seriously needs to be updated.

Timone147

1 step forward 2 steps back. Yet again here we go....

So is the unit value on alliance potions being looked at in general or are these going to just me more expensive than the already insanely priced alliance potions in the store currently?

NinjAlan

So the current lvl3 and lvl4 pots that are available for glory are going to be unusable jn aq and AW now? I haven't seen any clarity on this

Worknprogress

So the current lvl3 and lvl4 pots that are available for glory are going to be unusable jn aq and AW now? I haven't seen any clarity on this

They're still useable. These will be in addition to

NinjAlan

So the current lvl3 and lvl4 pots that are available for glory are going to be unusable jn aq and AW now? I haven't seen any clarity on this
They're still useable. These will be in addition to

100%? I couldn't find any clarity

DNA3000

So the current lvl3 and lvl4 pots that are available for glory are going to be unusable jn aq and AW now? I haven't seen any clarity on this

They will still be usable. According to the announcement the potions currently being sold in the Glory store will be unchanged and continue to be sold after the new unit store versions are released. Presumably if they are going to continue to be sold they will continue to be usable as well.

DNA3000

So the current lvl3 and lvl4 pots that are available for glory are going to be unusable jn aq and AW now? I haven't seen any clarity on this
They're still useable. These will be in addition to
100%? I couldn't find any clarity

See: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/187003/new-alliance-quest-and-alliance-war-potions-and-alliance-war-boosts-updated. Scroll to the bottom of the first post where it says "The Potions and Revives that are currently found in the Glory Store will remain unchanged and will continue to be sold in the Glory Store."

NinjAlan

So the current lvl3 and lvl4 pots that are available for glory are going to be unusable jn aq and AW now? I haven't seen any clarity on this
They're still useable. These will be in addition to
100%? I couldn't find any clarity
See: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/187003/new-alliance-quest-and-alliance-war-potions-and-alliance-war-boosts-updated. Scroll to the bottom of the first post where it says "The Potions and Revives that are currently found in the Glory Store will remain unchanged and will continue to be sold in the Glory Store."

Thank you, that seemed a bit ambiguous to me for some reason

VanillaCoke

The perception of AW being Pay to Win has definitely increased because of this.

Worknprogress

The perception of AW being Pay to Win has definitely increased because of this.

Lol like it wasnt before?

Worknprogress

Dont get me wrong I dont mind the option being there as a backup if you ever get in a bind. Can just burn some grinded units for a couple of pots for safety.

Still would have much rathered see at least the glory lv4 pots get the same change that the unit ones do. Ah well though

VanillaCoke

The perception of AW being Pay to Win has definitely increased because of this.
Lol like it wasnt before?

I just said “increased” implying it was already seen that way?

DNA3000

The perception of AW being Pay to Win has definitely increased because of this.

I'm not sure of that myself. The complaint used to be that Alliance War was pay to win because potions were too expensive and too weak, so Kabam was obviously milking the whales with those. Now that the potions are both cheaper and stronger, the complain seems to be that Kabam is obviously forcing people to use them to keep up, and is obviously implementing a cash grab.

If weak and expensive is a cash grab and stronger and cheaper is also a cash grab, then I don't think perceptions are shifting all that much. I think what people may not want to admit is Kabam doesn't force us to spend on war, we force us to spend on war. We spend because our opponents spend. Kabam can't help us individually by giving us better weapons if we are using them to shoot at each other. Taking potions away from us is bad, because we need them. But giving us better potions is also bad, because the other side is getting better potions and have to keep up with them.

No matter what the potions look like and no matter what they cost, someone is going to use the max. And everyone else is going to have to keep up. The only way to break that cycle is to use the nuclear option: reduce the max items we can use, possibly down to zero. If you literally can't spend on war, it can't be pay to win. Except that would cause a riot.

Jack0312

@Kabam Miike it will be very messy in the inventory, in the stores...
Will the potency be updated for those bought with units AND glory ? Or only for those bought with units ?
And why did you (the dev team) split the potions/revives into 2 types ?
I don't understand the purpose behind this... One type of alliance ressource is enough !
Thanks for the answer

Worknprogress

@Kabam Miike it will be very messy in the inventory, in the stores...
Will the potency be updated for those bought with units AND glory ? Or only for those bought with units ?
And why did you (the dev team) split the potions/revives into 2 types ?
I don't understand the purpose behind this... One type of alliance ressource is enough !
Thanks for the answer

That's already been answered in this thread. Glory pots will stay the same and we'll have 2 additional inventory slots for the same level pot for the new additions