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Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.
Champs DESCRIPTIONS too Complex or Time Consuming now?
KeepinItReal
Posts: 229 ★
Example: I read Mole Man's description that Unstoppable is a "debuff" under Monster Mass - Passive section. Yet under Frenzy it's an Unstoppable "effect".
Since IWCap kinetically charged doesn't nullify Unstoppable "effects", but does "debuffs",...for clarity shouldn't it say "effect" under both or "becomes Unstoppable" similar to Things description?
These types of recent descriptions where buffs, debuffs, passive effect interactions need to be diciphered are becoming tiresome. Especially when they aren't always clear or correct (Like what Wasp shruggs off or Stealthys lights can't be parried still not updated). "working as intended" is common & "not working as intended" (She-Hulk & every heavy similar changed after effectively countering Act 6.2 Champion) Sharing this bc many "wait, what just happened" often requires research. Even "searching" for confirmation or having to post this is time consuming & contrary to Kabams CEO Tim Fields words "...delight from the moment you first touch them..." to me. That's been my recent experience even though I do like figuring out some things. I don't like spending time searching google, Reddit, forums to have fun playing a game I enjoy with alliance mates.
Does anyone else feel this way?
Since IWCap kinetically charged doesn't nullify Unstoppable "effects", but does "debuffs",...for clarity shouldn't it say "effect" under both or "becomes Unstoppable" similar to Things description?
These types of recent descriptions where buffs, debuffs, passive effect interactions need to be diciphered are becoming tiresome. Especially when they aren't always clear or correct (Like what Wasp shruggs off or Stealthys lights can't be parried still not updated). "working as intended" is common & "not working as intended" (She-Hulk & every heavy similar changed after effectively countering Act 6.2 Champion) Sharing this bc many "wait, what just happened" often requires research. Even "searching" for confirmation or having to post this is time consuming & contrary to Kabams CEO Tim Fields words "...delight from the moment you first touch them..." to me. That's been my recent experience even though I do like figuring out some things. I don't like spending time searching google, Reddit, forums to have fun playing a game I enjoy with alliance mates.
Does anyone else feel this way?
21
Comments
As for your question, it’s an unstoppable buff, not a passive (as far as I know, since it triggers MD), but Cap IW probably won’t work since it triggers on block and Cap has to land a hit to nullify unstoppable
Mole Man's description correctly states that he gets an Unstoppable buff when he blocks attacks. It also correctly states that when he has more than five Monster Mass charges activating an Unstoppable effect triggers Frenzy. When he gains an Unstoppable buff, as he does when he blocks an attack, that is an unstoppable effect that activates Frenzy.
Sometimes in the game an ability will state that something is an "effect" and the presumption is that any effect not specifically described as a Buff or Debuff is a Passive. However, that doesn't mean "effect" is synonymous with "Passive." It is simply an assumption that when the game doesn't say if something is a Buff, Debuff, or Passive, the players should assume it is a Passive unless there is some other reason to think otherwise in context.
Yet recently someone said that's incorrect,..that there are only Buffs, Debuffs & Passive effects/abilities. What's the correct way to interpret these? @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Lyra @Kabam Porthos.
My point was to stay consistent just say in both areas it's an Unstoppable Debuffs or "becomes unstoppable" like Thing. It doesn't matter if IWCap hits into a block if it is a "debuffs" (vs Juggs, UColossus, Champion, etc) bc kinetically charged he nullifies that debuff. Unless he can nullify if Mole Man has up to 5 Monster Mass, but in Frenzy he can't nullify,...which is even more confusing.
So why even have "debuff'" in the description at all?
This is exactly what I'm referring to,...it takes "research" & sometimes we get the incorrect answers or it becomes more confusing. Lol
@Colonaut123 yes, it seemed alot clearer before all the unique abilities/effects & long descriptions started being added & the interactions being unclear when u have a "wait, what just happened" moment. Is it a bug, am I not understanding the champ correctly or the champ/node combo or abilities vs buffs/debuffs interaction, etc. Then we gotta spend time to figure it out, like now. I wish there was 100% confirmation from Kabam on this to simplify it. Like u said, so many exceptions make it confusing. Ugh
Effects can be classified as "Buff" or "Debuff" or "Passive." Theoretically speaking, an effect can have none of these flags: if an effect has none of these flags then it doesn't act like any of these things. Some node effects, for example, do not act as Buffs or Debuffs or Passives when it comes to interacting with other things (that's why some node degen effects don't trigger Hulk Rag's Face Me ability, in spite of the fact that they appear to use the same kind of icon as normal passive effects).
Incidentally, a Passive Ability and a Passive Effect are two different things. A Passive Ability is always on. In other words, a Passive Ability is always Active. A Passive Effect is an effect modifier that is tagged with the Passive Tag, no more, no less, which determines how other abilities and effects interact with it. To put it another way, "Buff" "Debuff" and "Passive" are effect "colors." It has nothing to do with what the effect does, it is a label the devs put on the effect, like painting it a color. For more information, see Frequently Asked Questions about Combat Mechanics.
It is possible that the description cannot be made any simpler, because it is saying something precise. I can't say for certain (the description could also be wrong) but if Mole Man works exactly as described then the description cannot be changed to what you want, for this reason. Suppose Mole Man was sitting on a node that made him go Passively Unstoppable at certain times. Now, if you are attacking Mole Man on this node and he has five Monster Mass charges and then the node gives him a passive unstoppable effect, does he trigger Frenzy?
According to the description, he does. The description doesn't say when he triggers his own Unstoppable Buff he triggers Frenzy, it says *whenever* an Unstoppable effect of any kind activates on Mole Man, he triggers Frenzy.
If we change the description to be "consistent" like you want it to be, the description in this situation would be wrong. It would say "when he gains an Unstoppable Buff he triggers Frenzy" but when a node gives him a passive unstoppable that's *not* a buff, so he shouldn't trigger Frenzy.
In other words, the description you are suggesting actually says something different than the description that Mole Man actually has. Because they are not synonymous the devs may be unable to simplify it in the manner you think they should.
Mole Man's description says when he triggers an Unstoppable effect he gain Frenzy (in that circumstance). The OP asked why it can't just say when he triggers an Unstoppable *Buff* he gains Frenzy. And the reason may be because it is necessary: if Mole Man gains frenzy on all forms of Unstoppable effects, not just his own buffs, then the description is accurate and can't be changed.
First, this post is about asking the MCOCommunity if they think recent champ descriptions have become too complex or time consuming.
1) Under "Monster Mass: Passive" section it says blocking basic attacks grants MM an unstoppable "buff". Yet under "Frenzy" it says when activating an unstoppable "effect" it activates Frenzy. He also gets Frenzy when at Max Monster Mass.
2) IWCap can "nullify" unstoppable "buffs" when kinetically charged, but not "effects" or in Things description "becomes unstoppable". This is the reason Kabam says it doesn't work vs Thing", bc it's not a "buff" to "nullify".
3) According to the description IWCap should be able to "nullify" MMs unstoppable"buff", right? Currently in gameplay he can not. Now frenzy could activate since he still activates his buff" that is "nullified". Or with any node that activates an Unstopp "effect"
4) Therefore either the description should say MMs unstoppable is an "effect" or "becomes unstoppable" in both sections, NOT "buff". Or he's bugged in game & IWCap should "nullify" his unstoppable "buff", right?
This is exactly what I'm asking about in my post. Should it cost ANY of us this much time deciphering, researching, clarifying, explaining or checking reddit, YT videos & forums to clearly understand the descriptions interacting with gameplay when we have a "wait, what tf just happened" moment? Especially in AWs where the various nodes & more recent D.Tactics add more complexity which could cost us revives, potions, glory, units &/or $$$.
Re-wrote this bc my initial response had to be "reviewed" by Kabam,...which now has cost me more time in forums instead of playing MCOC. Ugh
I actually tried to make this happen, and I gave up because I think this requires a one in a thousand or maybe one in a million AI glitch.
So basically you can probably nullify Mole Man's unstoppable buff, but its not going to stick around long enough for you to try.
My point is it can take many players lots of time deciphering interactions because of all these things: passive abilities &/or effects, active buffs or debuffs interactions. These also have or what can be interpreted as exceptions. (Like GHulks Face me not activating vs all Passive DOTs, Corvus not taking damage from bleed debuffs while glaive immunity is active but still taking damage from MStar & many more.)
The fact u posted a link to the forum u created about explaining Combat Mechanics in great detail. (Sincere thanks) Which also has multiple links, one being Kabams article on Battle Status Effects is a prime example of the complexity & time it can takes. That's only regarding Active permanent or temporary Buffs, Debuffs & Passive effects or abilities. It's not about being right or wrong regarding MMs description. You seem to invest alot of time helping others in Forums. So do u agree or disagree with what I was asking others in my initial post. Are the descriptions becoming too complex or time consuming?
With regards to MM’s unstoppable, it is a buff, it’s just such a short duration most nullify effects are hard to land before it expires. But since it’s a buff, Fate Seal (for example) would prevent it from activating.