Omega red taking bleed damage vs enhanced bleed

Hazzalec1Hazzalec1 Posts: 302 ★★
I’m slightly confused about the interaction of enhanced bleed nodes and omega red. I was running a biohazard node with omega and ran into an enhanced bleed node (40% increased bleed damage), however I thought omega red didn’t take bleed damage if you ran 1 point I’ll coagulate. Essentially:
Omega’s 90% reduction + 10% reduction from coagulate
But then when I’m running into enhanced bleed I still take damage, regardless of the fact that omega red reduces bleed damage by 100%.

I’ve done some investigating and have found something.
Kabam adds nodes after abilities, so essentially omega red is reducing the damage by 100% but then the enhanced bleed is placed after that reduction so the 40% still occurs.

I’m confused as to why this happens because omega red should take -90% damage from ALL bleeds, not just those without enhanced bleed nodes.

Comments

  • Lvernon15Lvernon15 Posts: 9,567 ★★★★★
    It works in flat values, 40% enhanced bleed means it deals 140%, omega reduces by 90%, so rather than reducing by 90% of the 140% resulting in you taking 14% it works as 140-90 so you take 50%, coagulate works in the same way as this, so 1 point you take 40% 2 30% etc
  • Hazzalec1Hazzalec1 Posts: 302 ★★
    Lvernon15 said:

    It works in flat values, 40% enhanced bleed means it deals 140%, omega reduces by 90%, so rather than reducing by 90% of the 140% resulting in you taking 14% it works as 140-90 so you take 50%, coagulate works in the same way as this, so 1 point you take 40% 2 30% etc

    I understand it works like that, but if omega reduces incoming bleed effects, then shouldn’t it get the value of the whole bleed including nodes and then reducing that? I know it doesn’t but I’m saying shouldn’t it?
  • Primmer79Primmer79 Posts: 2,954 Guardian
    Hazzalec1 said:

    Lvernon15 said:

    It works in flat values, 40% enhanced bleed means it deals 140%, omega reduces by 90%, so rather than reducing by 90% of the 140% resulting in you taking 14% it works as 140-90 so you take 50%, coagulate works in the same way as this, so 1 point you take 40% 2 30% etc

    I understand it works like that, but if omega reduces incoming bleed effects, then shouldn’t it get the value of the whole bleed including nodes and then reducing that? I know it doesn’t but I’m saying shouldn’t it?
    I think you're saying if it = 100%, it should reduce all damage, except the game doesnt work like that when we can have 140% and you reduce it by 100%. 100% doesnt mean absolutely all of it, all of the time
  • TP33TP33 Posts: 1,312 ★★★★
    Sounds like a savage path. Need immunities there
  • Hazzalec1Hazzalec1 Posts: 302 ★★
    Primmer79 said:

    Hazzalec1 said:

    Lvernon15 said:

    It works in flat values, 40% enhanced bleed means it deals 140%, omega reduces by 90%, so rather than reducing by 90% of the 140% resulting in you taking 14% it works as 140-90 so you take 50%, coagulate works in the same way as this, so 1 point you take 40% 2 30% etc

    I understand it works like that, but if omega reduces incoming bleed effects, then shouldn’t it get the value of the whole bleed including nodes and then reducing that? I know it doesn’t but I’m saying shouldn’t it?
    I think you're saying if it = 100%, it should reduce all damage, except the game doesnt work like that when we can have 140% and you reduce it by 100%. 100% doesnt mean absolutely all of it, all of the time
    But shouldn’t 100% reduce 100% of the damage? (Also Omega’s bleed resistance should come after nodes because it is 90% resistance to incoming bleed debuffs... not 90% resistant to base bleed debuffs) do you understand what I’m trying to say here? A champions abilities should come after the node (at least for debuffs) as if they have resistances it should be for the effect itself, taking into account nodes. An example of this is silver surfer. If you have an enhanced incinerate or enhanced shock then you’ll find he still takes damage, despite having ‘-100% damage to shock and incinerate’ so I’m saying shouldn’t -100% be -100%?
  • walkerdogwalkerdog Posts: 514 ★★★
    Hazzalec1 said:

    I’m slightly confused about the interaction of enhanced bleed nodes and omega red. I was running a biohazard node with omega and ran into an enhanced bleed node (40% increased bleed damage), however I thought omega red didn’t take bleed damage if you ran 1 point I’ll coagulate. Essentially:
    Omega’s 90% reduction + 10% reduction from coagulate
    But then when I’m running into enhanced bleed I still take damage, regardless of the fact that omega red reduces bleed damage by 100%.

    I’ve done some investigating and have found something.
    Kabam adds nodes after abilities, so essentially omega red is reducing the damage by 100% but then the enhanced bleed is placed after that reduction so the 40% still occurs.

    I’m confused as to why this happens because omega red should take -90% damage from ALL bleeds, not just those without enhanced bleed nodes.

    Kabam programmers thing that writing things in a manner that communicates 100% reduction should mean that it's all additive, so 90%+10% reduction, minus 40% = 60%, not "well we have 40% more bleed damage... then reduced by 100% by OR"
  • walkerdogwalkerdog Posts: 514 ★★★
    Primmer79 said:

    Hazzalec1 said:

    Lvernon15 said:

    It works in flat values, 40% enhanced bleed means it deals 140%, omega reduces by 90%, so rather than reducing by 90% of the 140% resulting in you taking 14% it works as 140-90 so you take 50%, coagulate works in the same way as this, so 1 point you take 40% 2 30% etc

    I understand it works like that, but if omega reduces incoming bleed effects, then shouldn’t it get the value of the whole bleed including nodes and then reducing that? I know it doesn’t but I’m saying shouldn’t it?
    I think you're saying if it = 100%, it should reduce all damage, except the game doesnt work like that when we can have 140% and you reduce it by 100%. 100% doesnt mean absolutely all of it, all of the time
    reducing 140% by 100% is always 0. 140% is 100% of 140%. Unless you take "reduce", involving %s, to actually mean addition/subtraction not multiplication/division. Kabam bringing more glory to Canada's education system.
  • Primmer79Primmer79 Posts: 2,954 Guardian
    walkerdog said:

    Primmer79 said:

    Hazzalec1 said:

    Lvernon15 said:

    It works in flat values, 40% enhanced bleed means it deals 140%, omega reduces by 90%, so rather than reducing by 90% of the 140% resulting in you taking 14% it works as 140-90 so you take 50%, coagulate works in the same way as this, so 1 point you take 40% 2 30% etc

    I understand it works like that, but if omega reduces incoming bleed effects, then shouldn’t it get the value of the whole bleed including nodes and then reducing that? I know it doesn’t but I’m saying shouldn’t it?
    I think you're saying if it = 100%, it should reduce all damage, except the game doesnt work like that when we can have 140% and you reduce it by 100%. 100% doesnt mean absolutely all of it, all of the time
    reducing 140% by 100% is always 0. 140% is 100% of 140%. Unless you take "reduce", involving %s, to actually mean addition/subtraction not multiplication/division. Kabam bringing more glory to Canada's education system.
    But, if that was the case, you're doing it wrong originally, 90% and increasing by 10% would be ~98-99%
  • Mirage_TurtleMirage_Turtle Posts: 1,858 ★★★★
    Like others have said, the Enhanced Bleed node adds a Flat % of damage from bleed effects.

    However, the Blade/Stark Spidey Synergy "Heightened Senses" is described as +45% Potency for Danger Sense Bonuses.. This % is not flat, rather it adds 45% of Danger Sense's 40%, raising it to 58%.

    The coding in this game is inconsistent to say the least.
  • Hazzalec1Hazzalec1 Posts: 302 ★★

    Like others have said, the Enhanced Bleed node adds a Flat % of damage from bleed effects.

    However, the Blade/Stark Spidey Synergy "Heightened Senses" is described as +45% Potency for Danger Sense Bonuses.. This % is not flat, rather it adds 45% of Danger Sense's 40%, raising it to 58%.

    The coding in this game is inconsistent to say the least.

    Yeah would like some clarity on this issue and general consistency in how percentages are calculated
  • will-o-wispwill-o-wisp Posts: 9,942 Guardian
    This is one of the mutiple threads you can find about this:
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/97868/omega-red-90-bleed-reduction-bugged

    And the asnwer provided by a moderator was the following:

    "Hey there, after some more thorough examination, we haven't found any issues with this interaction. to clear up some confusion, what is happening is that Omega Red reduces the base damage of the Bleed before the Bleed is enhanced by the nodes. This is the same way that other Champs with Bleed damage reduction function as well."


    As you can read, this is not an issue
  • Hazzalec1Hazzalec1 Posts: 302 ★★

    This is one of the mutiple threads you can find about this:
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/97868/omega-red-90-bleed-reduction-bugged

    And the asnwer provided by a moderator was the following:

    "Hey there, after some more thorough examination, we haven't found any issues with this interaction. to clear up some confusion, what is happening is that Omega Red reduces the base damage of the Bleed before the Bleed is enhanced by the nodes. This is the same way that other Champs with Bleed damage reduction function as well."


    As you can read, this is not an issue

    Yeah I see what the moderator said but it doesn’t make sense why Omega reduces base bleeds and not modified bleeds, as it’s his physiology, and part of his abilities. Can someone explain to me a good reason why this isn’t the case?
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Posts: 1,803 ★★★★★
    Hazzalec1 said:

    This is one of the mutiple threads you can find about this:
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/97868/omega-red-90-bleed-reduction-bugged

    And the asnwer provided by a moderator was the following:

    "Hey there, after some more thorough examination, we haven't found any issues with this interaction. to clear up some confusion, what is happening is that Omega Red reduces the base damage of the Bleed before the Bleed is enhanced by the nodes. This is the same way that other Champs with Bleed damage reduction function as well."


    As you can read, this is not an issue

    Yeah I see what the moderator said but it doesn’t make sense why Omega reduces base bleeds and not modified bleeds, as it’s his physiology, and part of his abilities. Can someone explain to me a good reason why this isn’t the case?
    Because Kabam, that's why.
  • MauledMauled Posts: 1,823 ★★★★
    Hazzalec1 said:

    This is one of the mutiple threads you can find about this:
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/97868/omega-red-90-bleed-reduction-bugged

    And the asnwer provided by a moderator was the following:

    "Hey there, after some more thorough examination, we haven't found any issues with this interaction. to clear up some confusion, what is happening is that Omega Red reduces the base damage of the Bleed before the Bleed is enhanced by the nodes. This is the same way that other Champs with Bleed damage reduction function as well."


    As you can read, this is not an issue

    Yeah I see what the moderator said but it doesn’t make sense why Omega reduces base bleeds and not modified bleeds, as it’s his physiology, and part of his abilities. Can someone explain to me a good reason why this isn’t the case?
    For the same reason Iceman isn’t cold snap immune, GR isn’t incinerate immune - it’s how Kabam wrote the code.

    With a lot of the more legacy coding if they adjusted everything to have the same format they would probably have to tweak a lot of the values that are floating around. Using the danger sense example - blade’s base 40% would be given a total of 85% ability accuracy reduction with Sparky which would basically shut down 20% of the champs in the game depending on how you built your team.


    It would be nice if it all got tidied up though

  • AburaeesAburaees Posts: 191 ★★
    edited May 2
    Hazzalec1 said:

    Yeah I see what the moderator said but it doesn’t make sense why Omega reduces base bleeds and not modified bleeds, as it’s his physiology, and part of his abilities. Can someone explain to me a good reason why this isn’t the case?

    His physiology allows him to bleed, a little, and the node just pumps him full of Warfarin 😉

    ...oops, just realised it can’t be that because he’s poison immune.

  • Hazzalec1Hazzalec1 Posts: 302 ★★
    Aburaees said:

    Hazzalec1 said:

    Yeah I see what the moderator said but it doesn’t make sense why Omega reduces base bleeds and not modified bleeds, as it’s his physiology, and part of his abilities. Can someone explain to me a good reason why this isn’t the case?

    His physiology allows him to bleed, a little, and the node just pumps him full of Warfarin 😉

    ...oops, just realised it can’t be that because he’s poison immune.

    Ahahah I just meant that the ability should reduce damage of all bleed damage.
    Base > omega reduces > enhanced bleed added
    It should be
    Base > enhanced bleed added > omega reduces

  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 4,982 ★★★★★
    Hazzalec1 said:

    This is one of the mutiple threads you can find about this:
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/97868/omega-red-90-bleed-reduction-bugged

    And the asnwer provided by a moderator was the following:

    "Hey there, after some more thorough examination, we haven't found any issues with this interaction. to clear up some confusion, what is happening is that Omega Red reduces the base damage of the Bleed before the Bleed is enhanced by the nodes. This is the same way that other Champs with Bleed damage reduction function as well."


    As you can read, this is not an issue

    Yeah I see what the moderator said but it doesn’t make sense why Omega reduces base bleeds and not modified bleeds, as it’s his physiology, and part of his abilities. Can someone explain to me a good reason why this isn’t the case?
    That's just how a lot of percentages work in this game. Same with she hulk's slow against 6.2.6 champion with the enhanced abilities node up. Her slow reduces unstoppable chance by 100% but he can still go unstoppable in that fight as his chance is now over 100%
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