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We will be leaving the crystals as is for the time being, but will be correcting the drop rates before Knull receives his official release on October 28th. To ensure that this does not affect anybody that purchased this preview bundle, we will be auto-opening these crystals before that date, but this means you will not see what you received. To avoid any confusion, please open your crystals yourself ASAP.

The Road to Cavalier Difficulty

24

Comments

  • Bugmat78Bugmat78 Posts: 947 ★★★
    So... looks like this might go live end of summer? K.
  • KaspyKaspy Posts: 148 ★★★
    I must admit, that I am surprised that you are actually moving forward with a cavalier difficulty at this point. Cavalier was first introduced a long time ago and while it would of made sense at the time, the game has already progressed so much past Act 6.1.

    I had come to the conclusion that the reason for the delay was because we would never seen an actual cavalier difficulty. Instead, we would get would be a new title somewhere in act 7 with an associated new difficulty tuned to players at that progression point. The big challenge of introducing a cavalier difficulty at this stage is there is a huge gap between beating act 6.1 and beating the grandmaster and venturing into act 7.

    I may be alone in this opinion, and by no means do i want anybody to take it the wrong way because this game 100% needs another difficultly level in the monthly events, i just think it it should be associated with an act 7 title. This is not a compliant by any means, just some food for thought.
  • Ebony_NawEbony_Naw Posts: 2,556 ★★★★★
    edited June 2020
    DNA3000 said:

    Ebony_Naw said:

    I think it's a very smart move. I applaud Kabam for thinking about the content, then using the player base to test it and give feedback. I doubt we will all agree on what it should look like, but if I read between the lines correctly in the announcement, this is targeted more towards the endgame players as opposed to someone freshly cavalier, or stuck in 6.2. If that's the case, I just think it's important to make that clear, so that we can then go ahead and give feedback as such.

    My understanding is the content may not have a specific "target" as such. Certainly, it will almost certainly be intended for players that have at least reached Cavalier status. But the reason why there may be no specific target beyond that is because even the idea of targeting a player progress point is a bit fuzzy. Suppose the devs decide to target someone in the middle of Act 6, say they just completed 6.2. What does it mean to target that player? Should it be easy for that player, should it be moderately hard for that player, should it be a challenge to even complete for such a player?

    If they were only making content for me, I would still expect some content to be easy for me, some to be a challenge, and maybe some would be out of reach, even though I was the target. Some content should be what I call aspirational, something to get me off my butt and push to achieve something. So I think the devs want to test drive this because even they don't exactly know what the target should be, and want to see how the players react to it. Not just in terms of how "strong" a player should be to do the content, but how hard it should be for those players to beat it.

    And let's be honest, some of this is not an exact science. There's game balance requirements on the content, but separate from that there's also player perception. A lot of people think UC difficulty is way too hard. Many think it is actually too easy for the rewards it gives out. But the consensus median opinion is probably that it is in the general area, more or less, or at least close enough that no one is going to burn down Kabam's offices over it. It is acceptable. No one really knows what will be "acceptable" to the playerbase when it comes to Cavalier difficulty because we all have different opinions. Testing won't find the perfect point because there is no perfect point, but Kabam will learn a lot from us when we debate amongst ourselves what we think is wrong with it. And we're all going to think something is wrong with it. The goal is to minimize the perceived collective wrong.

    If we were all game designers and had access to all the game design constraints, we could be given a target and asked to give an analysis on the content. But we aren't, and don't. And we don't want to exclude feedback from players that can't express their opinions that way. Instead, I think we're all supposed to grab a hold of the content and pull with bungee cables in all directions. Where ever the equilibrium point is, the devs are going to try to target that general spot with Cavalier, after applying their own design constraints.
    To an extent, I agree with you that the idea is to minimize the perceived collective wrong. But the cavalier base is very diverse in roster, skill, and needs. I don't see how they could possibly bridge that gap, but that's their job, not mine.

    All I can say is that if I were on the design team, my first question would be what a cavalier player looks like, and then I go from there. It's not built with a specific person in mind, but in order to get it right it requires an understanding of what it means to be the type of player they're looking for. I believe Act 6 was designed solely with previous content in mind. That was a mistake. I think this new difficulty would be more successful if they try to understand whom they are gearing it towards.
  • Wakandas_FinestWakandas_Finest Posts: 607 ★★★

    They should leave Uncollected difficulty the way it is because it ain’t difficult and leave the rewards

    They should add units and buff sig stone and gold rewards to uncollected imo
  • DoubleDeltaDoubleDelta Posts: 2,400 ★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mauled said:

    Arifutera said:

    So, will we get a full quest, with 3 chapters? Also, complete set of rewards (which are subject to change later)
    I know this is like a trial version, I want to know whether it resembles the actual cavalier quest....

    Not yet. A side event is like the Island of Doctor MODOK, or the Red Rooms, etc. They are not the actual event quest, but the side event that goes with them.
    Awesome news.

    To clarify, are the Island of Modok side quests what you’re drawing your data from, or are we to expect an additional side quest further down the line that will be acting as the test dummy?
    Technically neither. If I understand correctly, next month's side quest will have one more difficulty tier above Epic that will be the test bed for Cavalier difficulty. It isn't this month's side quest, and it won't be an additional special side quest. It will be Epic++ in next month's (and perhaps additional months) side quest.
    Sounds about right, Kabam can see their stats on a wider range of skill set than just the CCP, the wider community are also more likely to find issues pre-launch. Our reaction to the rewards will allow them to gauge the content too.

    Ofc we cant ask for a T5CC or 6* every month, but we could maybe say instead of a 5% T5CC can we have a 2% with 6* sigs, or instead of a 10% T5CC crystal can we have a 5% selector.

    This is where we need to work with kabam, a massive step for them to basically introduce us all to feedback pre official launch - if this works well, perhaps they can roll out steps like this more often (Act 6 100% can help develop 7.1, Abyss can help with the next level of legend content)
    I think this is an important point. We're being given an opportunity to provide feedback on Cavalier difficulty and rewards *before* it is being released. The *mechanism* Kabam is offering is basically a live test drive. Everyone has to try to understand how valuable that is. If all we do is complain about how far off the mark Epic++ is, we're just shooting ourselves in our own feet. This is how content is made in most game companies: through iteration. At some point you have to put down your white board pens and make something and see how it works. We should see Epic++ difficulty as a live whiteboard that we can provide input into.

    We are not all going to get what we want. That's also part of the process. No developer in a collaboration does either. We have to try to get what we want while recognizing all the other players that want something different, and the devs that also have requirements on the game design, and prove we can function in that space. If this works, they'll want to do it again with other content and other developments. If it devolves into an all or nothing demand-fest, it will discourage them from bothering to do it again.

    We have an opportunity to be constructive, and to apply pressure on those that aren't constructive, because we don't just have the opportunity to steer Cavalier tier into better directions, we have the opportunity to steer the future of the game in better directions. If we don't burn down the opportunity immediately out of the gate.
    @DNA3000 I completely agree, if this goes well it could be the thing that pulls the game back, not just for cavaliers, but for all progression levels.
    If YouTubers and content creators could help spread this message, it would be amazing. Most players who have been playing more than 2-3 years will know how much of a step this is from when Kabam first started out, and I'd hate to see this chance ruined.

    @RichTheMan @Seatin @Lagacy @KatyCandy
  • Wakandas_FinestWakandas_Finest Posts: 607 ★★★

    Is this the big announcement we were told to expect at the end of the week? Or is there more??

    I'm not sure which Big Announcement we said we'd have before the end of the week?
    A Roadmap how to proceed with the contest... Is that all you want to change? What's about basic 5* arena, and all the other changes requested and long overdue?
    Miike addressed the long term road map announcement. This was supposed to be apart of it but they know the demand for cab difficulty is high so they wanted to get this out there first. He said they are still working on the announcement for the long term roadmap but don’t want to just add what their plans are they want to add how they plan to address the player feedback as well that’s why it’s taking a little longer
  • DoubleDeltaDoubleDelta Posts: 2,400 ★★★★

    Is this the big announcement we were told to expect at the end of the week? Or is there more??

    I'm not sure which Big Announcement we said we'd have before the end of the week?
    A Roadmap how to proceed with the contest... Is that all you want to change? What's about basic 5* arena, and all the other changes requested and long overdue?
    Miike replied to this later, they've almost finished it - to be fair they had a ton of stuff to get through, with the backlash from this event it added yet more feedback. I doubt they'll release over the weekend, maybe Monday or Tuesday?

    This was part of it, they have been leaking little bits here and there, so at least we know they are working towards it.
  • DoubleDeltaDoubleDelta Posts: 2,400 ★★★★
    Kaspy said:

    I must admit, that I am surprised that you are actually moving forward with a cavalier difficulty at this point. Cavalier was first introduced a long time ago and while it would of made sense at the time, the game has already progressed so much past Act 6.1.

    I had come to the conclusion that the reason for the delay was because we would never seen an actual cavalier difficulty. Instead, we would get would be a new title somewhere in act 7 with an associated new difficulty tuned to players at that progression point. The big challenge of introducing a cavalier difficulty at this stage is there is a huge gap between beating act 6.1 and beating the grandmaster and venturing into act 7.

    I may be alone in this opinion, and by no means do i want anybody to take it the wrong way because this game 100% needs another difficultly level in the monthly events, i just think it it should be associated with an act 7 title. This is not a compliant by any means, just some food for thought.

    This is why they're asking for the community to help build the difficulty, they gain stats from us - we get to feel included. Theres a few things they could do, remember the jump from 5.1 to 5.4 is quite a big one too. Yes, Book 2 will likely require its own difficulty at some point down the road. Act 7 will not be coming any time soon. 4-5 months at the very least I'd think.
  • DoubleDeltaDoubleDelta Posts: 2,400 ★★★★

    They should leave Uncollected difficulty the way it is because it ain’t difficult and leave the rewards

    Not difficult for us, I think knock it down just a little, or give them a few more positive nodes with the likes of vulnerability nodes to help overcome the harder content - of course keep it reflective of progressing into act 6, but nurture them into it.
  • DeaconVelvetDeaconVelvet Posts: 2,549 ★★★★★
    keyword = challenge. please don't make this 6.2.6 Champion level impossible. we love a challenge but when you introduce pointless nodes and gimmicks to simply force players into pulling Unit Man, it becomes less fun and much more than a "challenge".

    so challenge? yes, love it. if it's bordering on insane where only one or two champs will give you a legit chance ... it's a fail.
  • SevSynSevSyn Posts: 72
    edited June 2020
    @Kabam Miike



    Of course! This is not it, but would have been part of it. We wanted to get this out earlier because we know you're all anticipating the next difficulty level. We're still working on finalizing that. There's a lot of work to be done there because we're not just writing out what we're doing, we're looking at what we want to change from player feedback as well.

    Please also disclose what you do not want to change from the player feedback also.
    this will take steps towards trust, transparency and understanding.

    * This will validate that many of the concerns that were voiced were heard, understood, and considered.
    * This will also put an end to our dwindling hope on some issues/topics so that we know what you are unwilling to address... and we can simply stop asking or sensibly consider continue playing vs. walking away.
    * This will allow some insight as to why the company will not acquiesce on game improvement requests that we genuinely wish to see in place

    @Kabam Miike
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 6,417 ★★★★★
    Those asking for UC to have difficulty reduced need to remember what happened to Master when UC was introduced. Difficulty was dropped but so were the rewards so be very careful what you ask for
  • Timone147Timone147 Posts: 1,276 ★★★★
    edited June 2020
    Glad to see it’s coming and also that there is something happening faster than just cavalier difficulty in the fall per the last announcement.

    Wish we had started this process sooner but also very glad we are going to tune it with feedback from the player base before launch so it won’t be overturned or need a ton of rework.

    Overall while I wish it was faster really think this is a step where we need to go from a content level Progression and then also a content creation/tuning standpoint. Finding a way to get player feedback for the launch is definitely a good step so thank you.
  • arsjumarsjum Posts: 411 ★★★

    Those asking for UC to have difficulty reduced need to remember what happened to Master when UC was introduced. Difficulty was dropped but so were the rewards so be very careful what you ask for

    No, they were not. Master rewards remained the same at the time and were buffed a while ago.
  • SparkAlotSparkAlot Posts: 957 ★★★★
    Bugmat78 said:

    So... looks like this might go live end of summer? K.

    Right, they said 2-3 months, so around there sounds plausible, assuming there are no delays.

    I do wonder though, if this should instead be on the Beta server, and give everyone access to the Beta server.

    That way, they can more quickly iterate the tuning that needs to be done (it wouldn't have to be 30 day delay), and since this would be on the Beta server, people have much more freedom to try a variety of champs they may have never had the chance to use before.

    I know people will say they want their rewards, and a simple fix for that is to just bump up everyone's calendar rewards accordingly, or even have a special calendar that can give out more things as a way to say thanks for helping us test things.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 6,417 ★★★★★
    arsjum said:

    Those asking for UC to have difficulty reduced need to remember what happened to Master when UC was introduced. Difficulty was dropped but so were the rewards so be very careful what you ask for

    No, they were not. Master rewards remained the same at the time and were buffed a while ago.
    I don't think that's true but would have to go back and look. It's been quite a while at this point
  • Lucasjones_98Lucasjones_98 Posts: 461
    No matter what you say about kabam, they do still look after their players and I'm appreciative that they're listening to the player base.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 6,417 ★★★★★

    arsjum said:

    Those asking for UC to have difficulty reduced need to remember what happened to Master when UC was introduced. Difficulty was dropped but so were the rewards so be very careful what you ask for

    No, they were not. Master rewards remained the same at the time and were buffed a while ago.
    I don't think that's true but would have to go back and look. It's been quite a while at this point
    Just went back and checked and you're right. Not sure why I thought they had been. It's been quite a long time at this point
  • JustapilgrimJustapilgrim Posts: 239 ★★

    No matter what you say about kabam, they do still look after their players and I'm appreciative that they're listening to the player base.

    What planet have you been on lately....
  • Air98Air98 Posts: 80 ★★
    I never thought it would take this long to get Cavalier difficulty...players have been asking for this for soooo long.
  • Indrick781Indrick781 Posts: 423 ★★★
    Cavalier difficulty should be aimed right at the average Cavalier roster. Fresh Cavalier players should see it as difficult to explore but only a challenge to complete. Average Cavalier players should find it easy to complete but a moderate challenge to explore. Advanced Cavalier players should find it easy to complete and only a small challenge to explore. Don't gear it towards the upper end of Cavalier or only they will even really try it.
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