Dev Diary: The Future of Quests

Summoners!

Part 1 of our Roadmap is live! Head over to our blog to read thoughts on the past, present, and future of Quests in Marvel Contest of Champions! Our team goes over what we've learned from the Book 2 Act 1 Beta Test and how we'll be moving forward revisions to Act 6 and the Champion Boss Fight, and much more! Read all about it on our Blog! Click here!

As we mention in the post, we'd like to hear from you, our players, on what your Act 6 Pain Points with certain bosses were. We have some of our own plans and targets in the works, but they’re still early on and we don’t want to limit the possibilities by talking specifics just yet.

We're going to set up a player focus group with a selection of 20-30 Summoners from across The Battlerealm and work with them to do some discovery surrounding what made some of the more troubling fights problematic. We're looking for players that have attempted Act 6 and can identify areas in which they felt they faced a challenge that was more difficult than they expected.

Apply to be part of the Act 6 Pain Point Player Focus Group here.

Comments

KnightZero

I could be wrong but I read the attack reduction being more targeted at 6.3 and 6.4
6.3 and 6.4 are the only chapters where attack went crazy. 6.1 and 6.2 were already easily manageable

Yup agree with this. Also agree that the reduction in attack is a bit too much. Never expected it to be that much. 20-30% would have been fine. Maybe bosses to 35-40%. And 6.1/6.2 don't need a reduction.

Mcord11758

Attacks before 6.3 are not bad at all and are still manageable in 6.3 and 6.4. The issue is some nodes and some encounters

KnightZero

Attacks before 6.3 are not bad at all and are still manageable in 6.3 and 6.4. The issue is some nodes and some encounters

Yup. The encounters being very specific is the problem. Though with attack reduction, can use weaker champs to go through the lanes. Rather than wait for only better counters. Still don't think we needed 60% reduction though.

DNA3000

@DNA3000 I would like your opinion on this because I have come to appreciate your unbiased, analytical approach. That said, in this case, I hope you'll be able to turn off your analytics and just give your "gut" assessment.

Full disclosure, I do not work in a for profit gaming industry. I do however work in a defense tech industry. Everytime we release a product, we have a slew of employees, myself included, who have relevant experience from the target audience, that test the product against the use case our customers will employ.

I would never claim that our products are flawless, but we make every effort to catch everything before it reaches out customers, and with the exception of very niche circumstances, we do a pretty good job of it.

To that end, why do you suppose we need a focus group now? Kabam has had betas of various Act 6 chapters, and now Book 2 (Act 7), where all of these topics have been raised, and yet now they are finally prepared to revisit this content, but claim they need to "analyze data".

What was the point of the betas if not to analyze data and adjust prior to release? I've been a part of many of those betas, and I can look back at the forum posts pointing out all the items they are now planning to address.

Furthermore, why are we left without a definitive timeline? I get that changing specifics to a given encounter (reducing the Champion charges during the last 10% from 5 to 3) may take more time given its a specific fight that has hundreds of champ variables. That said, something like attack values, which they've claimed they will be reducing, seems far more straight forward. If a global node increases attack value by 500%, is it not straight forward to change that to 300%? I don't write code for a living, but a sweeping change like that actually seems infinitely easier to implement as it's nothing more than a percentage change.

Again, I'm tagging you because I value your opinion, and I'm genuinely confused as to how they could be so blind to what was right in front of them for months without being acknowledged.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Side note.... something I've advocated for previously, and will reiterate here...I'm perfectly fine with fights that require very specific champ counters, so long as there is a "non-rng" method of obtaining said champ. They have featured crystals with a more narrow pool of champs at an increased cost already. Why not have an option to spend an even higher amount, call it 75k 5* shards, to simply pick a champ, no RNG involved, and let you do it twice a year, and only once per champ (you can't dupe a champ in this fashion).

No need to comment on that last bit if you don't want to. That's more in hopes that someone from Kabam sees it.

I can't speak for Kabam, but I can tell you what I think the purpose of focus groups would likely be for Act 6 revisions. First, while it is true that there's been a lot written about Act 6, there's no possible way the actual developers who actually designed it or are responsible for modifying it could have read it all. *I* haven't read every single word, and I read very fast. Most developers of most video games do not read the forums regularly, if there even are forums. There simply isn't time. Not even the moderators read every thing. At best they might have some idea what's being discussed, but I guarantee you I have a better handle on what the forums say about a piece of content than any developer working on it. It is simply impossible for them to keep up. Our feedback gets filtered through gatekeepers and editors and probably the office watercooler. So being able to put real players in front of the actual developer who is going to be the one to touch the content is a channel of feedback that simply doesn't exist now, except in a very processed form.

Second, player feedback by necessity doesn't incorporate the developer imperatives. Developers don't have unlimited latitude to do whatever they want, or whatever the players want. Most players don't know when they give feedback what is actually possible vs impossible, practical vs impractical, doable vs not doable. A lot of players gave the feedback "just remove the gates." Okay. Suppose that option is off the table. What would their second choice be? We'll never know, because they don't know that's off the table. In a controlled focus group, you can communicate those things back and forth. Players can say "I would change this" and the devs can say "we can't do that, but why do you want to change it in that way; is there another way to achieve the same goal?" That kind of back and forth doesn't exist at all now, and there's no way to approximate it by just throwing all the feedback into a pile.

Third, no one knows what the devs are thinking are reasonable alternatives. Even if we all agreed on the problems, which we don't, we certainly don't all agree on which solutions are palatable or unpalatable. So in a focus group the devs can say "okay, we agree this is bad; suppose we did this instead" and the players can say "no, that's worse" or "that's better, but not good enough." If you believe all the problems are obvious and all the solutions are also obvious, then this has no value. In your line of work, even when everyone agrees on what the problem is, does everyone agree on what the right way to resolve it is?

And finally, there's a meta benefit. Players have been asking for players to have "a seat at the table" when content decisions are made. Well, here it is. Forming the focus group and having major contributions in the updated content come directly from them is a long-term win. Even if Kabam could have made a solution all by themselves without player input, if there's two solutions that work, both of which Kabam can live with, and one was invented by them and one was invented by a player, giving the player the win is a way to get players to believe they are part of the process.

As to timelines, I think there's two things at play here. First, timelines are not trivial to make in my experience, because game development tends to happen in expertise silos and in deep pipelines. In other words, there isn't one dedicated team that makes Book 2, different parts of Book 2 are worked on by map designers, reward economy designers, champion designers, etc. Each silo does its thing across a pipeline of content. When the pipeline is running smoothly, a good producer can guestimate how long it will take for something to get done, and try to set deadlines accordingly. But if that pipeline is disrupted, its like a supply chain being purged and restarted, if that analogy works for you. It becomes much more difficult to know when final products will ship. And the new roadmap has disrupted the pipeline, making predictions more difficult. Keep in mind there's four blog posts of roadmap changes that will all be competing for developer attention, not just this one.

On top of that, they seem to have an idea of what they want to do, but they want to leave latitude to change that based on feedback. If the feedback changes things in certain ways it could radically alter the amount of work necessary, or shift the amount of work required from different people If they set a date and have to slip it, that's just as bad if not worse than not giving any dates at all. The people who say an estimate is better than nothing all seem to have the day off when Kabam announces a date change.

Some things could be changed faster than others. But I think when they are tackling something like adjusting Act 6, they don't want to do things piecemeal. They want to make those changes all at once, or in a minimum of steps. Now, some people disagree that's the best way to go, but there's no credible argument that says combining changes is *obviously* wrong. That's a matter of preference and efficiency over expediency.

On the subject of RNG champ acquisition. I've addressed that in a couple places, for example most recently here: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/203667/taming-rng-in-champion-crystals. But I think we'll have another chance to discuss that when Part 3 of the Roadmap Tetralogy releases and discusses Kabam's future plans for champion crystals and champion acquisition.

TheTalents

The attack reduction will defintley help but it doesn't mean unskilled players will cake walk through act 6. It just means instead of 3 to 4 revives on a really hard fight it will be 2 because you won't instantly die on a mistake.

I think Kabam will relay on higher rewards in side quests. Thats the direction they're headed.

tkhan08

One of the biggest pain point was The Champion with Spite. Please do look into it @Kabam Mike. if possible, please remove spite.

Also,is there any plan to look into solo and alliance objectives crystals? They are so outdated.

nik123456789

I would have preferred to eliminate the last 10 % of the champion fight
It s only a waste of units and no funny
In 6.2 you cannot have this kind of fight
More difficult than others bosses in 6.4 quest
You always need specific champions for the last 10% so you cannot pass until you have them @Kabam Miike

Mcord11758

To be fair you need specific champs for Medusa with do you bleed, or iceman in 6.4 or else you will not survive coldsnap, or capiw in 6.3 or you will die to sp3. Or the adaptiod in 6.4 or he will basically be unstoppable the majority of the fight. Or sinister in 6.2, or crossbones in 6.1. The champion is not the only boss that requires counters that are somewhat limited

Mr_Platypus

While I’d still love if they put in the reduced attack values ASAP for act 6, I’ve come to realise that it’d probabl

Summoners!

Part 1 of our Roadmap is live! Head over to our blog to read thoughts on the past, present, and future of Quests in Marvel Contest of Champions! Our team goes over what we've learned from the Book 2 Act 1 Beta Test and how we'll be moving forward revisions to Act 6 and the Champion Boss Fight, and much more! Read all about it on our Blog! Click here!

As we mention in the post, we'd like to hear from you, our players, on what your Act 6 Pain Points with certain bosses were. We have some of our own plans and targets in the works, but they’re still early on and we don’t want to limit the possibilities by talking specifics just yet.

We're going to set up a player focus group with a selection of 20-30 Summoners from across The Battlerealm and work with them to do some discovery surrounding what made some of the more troubling fights problematic. We're looking for players that have attempted Act 6 and can identify areas in which they felt they faced a challenge that was more difficult than they expected.

Apply to be part of the Act 6 Pain Point Player Focus Group here.
Here's my feedback on road to Cavalier difficulty: 6.1.5 boss fight (Crossbones) is absurd with the nodes in place. Unless you have the right champion to counter the nodes, you're basically stuck and can't progress any further (double immune bleed + poison, and easily accessible heal block). I have two R5 champs (Dr. Doom and Captain America Infinity War) who are no use on this fight. I use my R4 duped Darkhawk. I boosted the **** out of him (30% champion boost, 10% attack boost, health boost, +8% tech special boost). I get in 106 hits before I'm KO, and he's still at 98% health because of his insane regen and my inability to get off anything other than sp1 before my power is drained. I can heal block at sp3, but that's never going to happen with the power drain node.

I either have to take him to R5 and hope that's enough (I REALLY don't want to R5 him just for one fight knowing that still may not even work), or wait until I get a champ like Sentinel, Iron Man Infinity War, etc.that can better manage the nodes. I have 25 5-star champs and none of them can handle this fight... who knows how long it's going to take me until I pull one who can, then be able to actually rank them up to a high enough level for this fight.

Mate, you have 25 5*s, quite frankly act 6 wasn’t designed for you to just walk through, in fact I’m going to take a shot in the dark and say you haven’t 100% explored act 5 yet or any variants so maybe work on those instead.

unknown

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pseudosane

You guys are having a pointless debate. None of us have an idea what the compensation will look like, if it's ever given.

I have 100% cleared it and I'll take whatever Kabam gives. If they don't, whatever. I'm done with Act 6.

I do feel however that Kabam is going a little overboard with nerfing Act 6. I don't know, with that level of attack reduction, will Act 6 be even significantly different from 5.4?

Champion nerf is deserved as are some niche encounters like Mr Sinister and Acid Wash Mysterio. Attack reduction in 6.3 and 6.4 was needed but not to this degree.

Now the Cavalier Difficulty has got me worried. Will it be tuned in line with Act 6 difficulty in its current state or its nerfed version? I hope it's the former.
Yeah, they absolutely are gutting it. I'm pretty disappointed honestly. I'm done with it though so oh well. The things you mentioned and removing strength of number from 6.2.5 mordo are really all I personally felt were justified.

I don't want or expect compensation as whatever we get will be absolutely meaningless so I'd rather they did nothing honestly.
I feel bad that I'm upset that they are nerfing it so hard, but it is ridiculous. 40-60% reduction and up to 75% for bosses? The Hydra Adaptoid boss had about 40K attack (39,312) and with a 75% reduction, that brings it down to 10K (9,828).
It's not even going to be the same fight anymore.
One blocked hit with my r4 Stealthy took off somewhere around 2,200 health, now it'll take off around 550. The difference is huge. Is it any wonder why people who 100% feel like we deserve significant compensation?
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are nerfing it, but I think they are nerfing it too hard. I was expecting a 25-30% reduction in attack values across the board, that would have made exploration a lot easier, but still difficult. This attack value reduction instead makes the content a cakewalk and now people are going to get the same rewards for between 40-75% less effort than those of us who completed and explored Act 6 in its current form. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for our compensation to include more rewards, though my original post was a bit much (aim high).
Maybe I'm just being salty, but I do think we should get a little something extra in our compensation, after all, it was a lot harder for us. What do I think is reasonable now, after gauging the responses from my first?
10K Six star shards
50% t5cc selector
2t5b
8t2a
I would also be more than happy to have this as compensation:
a bunch of revives that don't expire
potions that don't expire
exclusive Orange title
exclusive Profile pic
I think the attack reductions are warranted. I dont really see an issue with how much they are being reduced. And i disagree with the content being a cakewalk with these reductions. 1 combo and you'll probably still die or get very close to it.
Not even close. The attack reduction is huge. You'll be able to sit there and block with R4s let alone R5s and survive. Basically anyone is going to be able to get through it at the level it will be brought down to.

I'm fine with that if that's what they want to do but do not for a second act like a 50% attack reduction is some trivial change.
I am going to make a counter argument, one that I have said before, it’s main story content. Everyone should be able to do it.

I personally don’t really think reducing the attack values were needed, I would have preferred more focus on certain fights but if the game has a future past act 6, everyone should reasonably be able to beat it
That counter only makes sense based on other games though. There's nothing that says that's how this game has to be made.

If they shift in that direction, that's fine but it's not how the game has been designed ever really. Also it doesn't mean everyone should be able to do it NOW.

It also brings into play if story content isn't going to be the apex of difficulty, why should it contain the apex of rewards? Would you be fine with all new new tier resources getting added to side quests like variant and having the difficulty jacked up as well?

Its been half a year since its been released, even more than that for 6.3. Judging by all these complaints (excluding you of course) not many were "ready" in your eyes. They unitmanned it through. Thats why there is so much regret in this thread. I, for one, saw this and said eff it.
The "apex" of content is Abyss (before that was LoL). Story content has to be reasonable so everyone can get through. While the attack reductions are surprising, the niche nodes still make it a pain (in a way), which makes it more reasonable. 30% reduction is welcome in my eyes. The current 50-70% makes it a lot more pleasant.
Previously (in before acts), attack values were never as high as the healthpools of your highest ranked characters. That is a real killer right there, that is what destroyed act6.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Worknprogress

You guys are having a pointless debate. None of us have an idea what the compensation will look like, if it's ever given.

I have 100% cleared it and I'll take whatever Kabam gives. If they don't, whatever. I'm done with Act 6.

I do feel however that Kabam is going a little overboard with nerfing Act 6. I don't know, with that level of attack reduction, will Act 6 be even significantly different from 5.4?

Champion nerf is deserved as are some niche encounters like Mr Sinister and Acid Wash Mysterio. Attack reduction in 6.3 and 6.4 was needed but not to this degree.

Now the Cavalier Difficulty has got me worried. Will it be tuned in line with Act 6 difficulty in its current state or its nerfed version? I hope it's the former.
Yeah, they absolutely are gutting it. I'm pretty disappointed honestly. I'm done with it though so oh well. The things you mentioned and removing strength of number from 6.2.5 mordo are really all I personally felt were justified.

I don't want or expect compensation as whatever we get will be absolutely meaningless so I'd rather they did nothing honestly.
I feel bad that I'm upset that they are nerfing it so hard, but it is ridiculous. 40-60% reduction and up to 75% for bosses? The Hydra Adaptoid boss had about 40K attack (39,312) and with a 75% reduction, that brings it down to 10K (9,828).
It's not even going to be the same fight anymore.
One blocked hit with my r4 Stealthy took off somewhere around 2,200 health, now it'll take off around 550. The difference is huge. Is it any wonder why people who 100% feel like we deserve significant compensation?
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are nerfing it, but I think they are nerfing it too hard. I was expecting a 25-30% reduction in attack values across the board, that would have made exploration a lot easier, but still difficult. This attack value reduction instead makes the content a cakewalk and now people are going to get the same rewards for between 40-75% less effort than those of us who completed and explored Act 6 in its current form. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for our compensation to include more rewards, though my original post was a bit much (aim high).
Maybe I'm just being salty, but I do think we should get a little something extra in our compensation, after all, it was a lot harder for us. What do I think is reasonable now, after gauging the responses from my first?
10K Six star shards
50% t5cc selector
2t5b
8t2a
I would also be more than happy to have this as compensation:
a bunch of revives that don't expire
potions that don't expire
exclusive Orange title
exclusive Profile pic
I think the attack reductions are warranted. I dont really see an issue with how much they are being reduced. And i disagree with the content being a cakewalk with these reductions. 1 combo and you'll probably still die or get very close to it.
Not even close. The attack reduction is huge. You'll be able to sit there and block with R4s let alone R5s and survive. Basically anyone is going to be able to get through it at the level it will be brought down to.

I'm fine with that if that's what they want to do but do not for a second act like a 50% attack reduction is some trivial change.
I am going to make a counter argument, one that I have said before, it’s main story content. Everyone should be able to do it.

I personally don’t really think reducing the attack values were needed, I would have preferred more focus on certain fights but if the game has a future past act 6, everyone should reasonably be able to beat it
That counter only makes sense based on other games though. There's nothing that says that's how this game has to be made.

If they shift in that direction, that's fine but it's not how the game has been designed ever really. Also it doesn't mean everyone should be able to do it NOW.

It also brings into play if story content isn't going to be the apex of difficulty, why should it contain the apex of rewards? Would you be fine with all new new tier resources getting added to side quests like variant and having the difficulty jacked up as well?
Its been half a year since its been released, even more than that for 6.3. Judging by all these complaints (excluding you of course) not many were "ready" in your eyes. They unitmanned it through. Thats why there is so much regret in this thread. I, for one, saw this and said eff it.
The "apex" of content is Abyss (before that was LoL). Story content has to be reasonable so everyone can get through. While the attack reductions are surprising, the niche nodes still make it a pain (in a way), which makes it more reasonable. 30% reduction is welcome in my eyes. The current 50-70% makes it a lot more pleasant.
Previously (in before acts), attack values were never as high as the healthpools of your highest ranked characters. That is a real killer right there, that is what destroyed act6.

I'm not talking about stuff we get every 3+ plus years when I say apex of difficulty. I'm talking regular frequently added game content. You can't legitimately expect there to only be anything difficult every few years, that's ridiculous.

Attack values weren't THAT far off healthpools in later Act 5 either. 4/40 4*s have what around 11k health? Attack values in a lot of paths were 7-8k.

Like I said, if they want to make story content more accessible that's fine. The question from that point is, why should the newest tier of resources also be gained from it? Would people be so okay with Act content being gutted but having the same happen to the rewards and then adding all the high tier stuff to side events? I don't think they would personally. We'd have the same complaints just about different content. The only difference is this "story content should be easy" trope wouldn't fly.

pseudosane

You guys are having a pointless debate. None of us have an idea what the compensation will look like, if it's ever given.

I have 100% cleared it and I'll take whatever Kabam gives. If they don't, whatever. I'm done with Act 6.

I do feel however that Kabam is going a little overboard with nerfing Act 6. I don't know, with that level of attack reduction, will Act 6 be even significantly different from 5.4?

Champion nerf is deserved as are some niche encounters like Mr Sinister and Acid Wash Mysterio. Attack reduction in 6.3 and 6.4 was needed but not to this degree.

Now the Cavalier Difficulty has got me worried. Will it be tuned in line with Act 6 difficulty in its current state or its nerfed version? I hope it's the former.
Yeah, they absolutely are gutting it. I'm pretty disappointed honestly. I'm done with it though so oh well. The things you mentioned and removing strength of number from 6.2.5 mordo are really all I personally felt were justified.

I don't want or expect compensation as whatever we get will be absolutely meaningless so I'd rather they did nothing honestly.
I feel bad that I'm upset that they are nerfing it so hard, but it is ridiculous. 40-60% reduction and up to 75% for bosses? The Hydra Adaptoid boss had about 40K attack (39,312) and with a 75% reduction, that brings it down to 10K (9,828).
It's not even going to be the same fight anymore.
One blocked hit with my r4 Stealthy took off somewhere around 2,200 health, now it'll take off around 550. The difference is huge. Is it any wonder why people who 100% feel like we deserve significant compensation?
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are nerfing it, but I think they are nerfing it too hard. I was expecting a 25-30% reduction in attack values across the board, that would have made exploration a lot easier, but still difficult. This attack value reduction instead makes the content a cakewalk and now people are going to get the same rewards for between 40-75% less effort than those of us who completed and explored Act 6 in its current form. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for our compensation to include more rewards, though my original post was a bit much (aim high).
Maybe I'm just being salty, but I do think we should get a little something extra in our compensation, after all, it was a lot harder for us. What do I think is reasonable now, after gauging the responses from my first?
10K Six star shards
50% t5cc selector
2t5b
8t2a
I would also be more than happy to have this as compensation:
a bunch of revives that don't expire
potions that don't expire
exclusive Orange title
exclusive Profile pic
I think the attack reductions are warranted. I dont really see an issue with how much they are being reduced. And i disagree with the content being a cakewalk with these reductions. 1 combo and you'll probably still die or get very close to it.
Not even close. The attack reduction is huge. You'll be able to sit there and block with R4s let alone R5s and survive. Basically anyone is going to be able to get through it at the level it will be brought down to.

I'm fine with that if that's what they want to do but do not for a second act like a 50% attack reduction is some trivial change.
I am going to make a counter argument, one that I have said before, it’s main story content. Everyone should be able to do it.

I personally don’t really think reducing the attack values were needed, I would have preferred more focus on certain fights but if the game has a future past act 6, everyone should reasonably be able to beat it
That counter only makes sense based on other games though. There's nothing that says that's how this game has to be made.

If they shift in that direction, that's fine but it's not how the game has been designed ever really. Also it doesn't mean everyone should be able to do it NOW.

It also brings into play if story content isn't going to be the apex of difficulty, why should it contain the apex of rewards? Would you be fine with all new new tier resources getting added to side quests like variant and having the difficulty jacked up as well?
Its been half a year since its been released, even more than that for 6.3. Judging by all these complaints (excluding you of course) not many were "ready" in your eyes. They unitmanned it through. Thats why there is so much regret in this thread. I, for one, saw this and said eff it.
The "apex" of content is Abyss (before that was LoL). Story content has to be reasonable so everyone can get through. While the attack reductions are surprising, the niche nodes still make it a pain (in a way), which makes it more reasonable. 30% reduction is welcome in my eyes. The current 50-70% makes it a lot more pleasant.
Previously (in before acts), attack values were never as high as the healthpools of your highest ranked characters. That is a real killer right there, that is what destroyed act6.
I'm not talking about stuff we get every 3+ plus years when I say apex of difficulty. I'm talking regular frequently added game content. You can't legitimately expect there to only be anything difficult every few years, that's ridiculous.

Attack values weren't THAT far off healthpools in later Act 5 either. 4/40 4*s have what around 11k health? Attack values in a lot of paths were 7-8k.

Like I said, if they want to make story content more accessible that's fine. The question from that point is, why should the newest tier of resources also be gained from it? Would people be so okay with Act content being gutted but having the same happen to the rewards and then adding all the high tier stuff to side events? I don't think they would personally. We'd have the same complaints just about different content. The only difference is this "story content should be easy" trope wouldn't fly.

5* R4s were the top champs available for act5. There was nobody with 30k attack. You also didnt have the plethora of nodes you have in act6, you could take a wide variety of champs to clear the content. (i did it when it released). right now, r5s/r3s and still you are taking massive damage (6.3/6.4 only). That isnt fun.
Really really tough content can form the apex (unit collector). The summer of pain seems like another maze, yes that can be really really tough. Static content that is a pathway to progression? No.

Worknprogress

You guys are having a pointless debate. None of us have an idea what the compensation will look like, if it's ever given.

I have 100% cleared it and I'll take whatever Kabam gives. If they don't, whatever. I'm done with Act 6.

I do feel however that Kabam is going a little overboard with nerfing Act 6. I don't know, with that level of attack reduction, will Act 6 be even significantly different from 5.4?

Champion nerf is deserved as are some niche encounters like Mr Sinister and Acid Wash Mysterio. Attack reduction in 6.3 and 6.4 was needed but not to this degree.

Now the Cavalier Difficulty has got me worried. Will it be tuned in line with Act 6 difficulty in its current state or its nerfed version? I hope it's the former.
Yeah, they absolutely are gutting it. I'm pretty disappointed honestly. I'm done with it though so oh well. The things you mentioned and removing strength of number from 6.2.5 mordo are really all I personally felt were justified.

I don't want or expect compensation as whatever we get will be absolutely meaningless so I'd rather they did nothing honestly.
I feel bad that I'm upset that they are nerfing it so hard, but it is ridiculous. 40-60% reduction and up to 75% for bosses? The Hydra Adaptoid boss had about 40K attack (39,312) and with a 75% reduction, that brings it down to 10K (9,828).
It's not even going to be the same fight anymore.
One blocked hit with my r4 Stealthy took off somewhere around 2,200 health, now it'll take off around 550. The difference is huge. Is it any wonder why people who 100% feel like we deserve significant compensation?
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are nerfing it, but I think they are nerfing it too hard. I was expecting a 25-30% reduction in attack values across the board, that would have made exploration a lot easier, but still difficult. This attack value reduction instead makes the content a cakewalk and now people are going to get the same rewards for between 40-75% less effort than those of us who completed and explored Act 6 in its current form. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for our compensation to include more rewards, though my original post was a bit much (aim high).
Maybe I'm just being salty, but I do think we should get a little something extra in our compensation, after all, it was a lot harder for us. What do I think is reasonable now, after gauging the responses from my first?
10K Six star shards
50% t5cc selector
2t5b
8t2a
I would also be more than happy to have this as compensation:
a bunch of revives that don't expire
potions that don't expire
exclusive Orange title
exclusive Profile pic
I think the attack reductions are warranted. I dont really see an issue with how much they are being reduced. And i disagree with the content being a cakewalk with these reductions. 1 combo and you'll probably still die or get very close to it.
Not even close. The attack reduction is huge. You'll be able to sit there and block with R4s let alone R5s and survive. Basically anyone is going to be able to get through it at the level it will be brought down to.

I'm fine with that if that's what they want to do but do not for a second act like a 50% attack reduction is some trivial change.
I am going to make a counter argument, one that I have said before, it’s main story content. Everyone should be able to do it.

I personally don’t really think reducing the attack values were needed, I would have preferred more focus on certain fights but if the game has a future past act 6, everyone should reasonably be able to beat it
That counter only makes sense based on other games though. There's nothing that says that's how this game has to be made.

If they shift in that direction, that's fine but it's not how the game has been designed ever really. Also it doesn't mean everyone should be able to do it NOW.

It also brings into play if story content isn't going to be the apex of difficulty, why should it contain the apex of rewards? Would you be fine with all new new tier resources getting added to side quests like variant and having the difficulty jacked up as well?
Its been half a year since its been released, even more than that for 6.3. Judging by all these complaints (excluding you of course) not many were "ready" in your eyes. They unitmanned it through. Thats why there is so much regret in this thread. I, for one, saw this and said eff it.
The "apex" of content is Abyss (before that was LoL). Story content has to be reasonable so everyone can get through. While the attack reductions are surprising, the niche nodes still make it a pain (in a way), which makes it more reasonable. 30% reduction is welcome in my eyes. The current 50-70% makes it a lot more pleasant.
Previously (in before acts), attack values were never as high as the healthpools of your highest ranked characters. That is a real killer right there, that is what destroyed act6.
I'm not talking about stuff we get every 3+ plus years when I say apex of difficulty. I'm talking regular frequently added game content. You can't legitimately expect there to only be anything difficult every few years, that's ridiculous.

Attack values weren't THAT far off healthpools in later Act 5 either. 4/40 4*s have what around 11k health? Attack values in a lot of paths were 7-8k.

Like I said, if they want to make story content more accessible that's fine. The question from that point is, why should the newest tier of resources also be gained from it? Would people be so okay with Act content being gutted but having the same happen to the rewards and then adding all the high tier stuff to side events? I don't think they would personally. We'd have the same complaints just about different content. The only difference is this "story content should be easy" trope wouldn't fly.
5* R4s were the top champs available for act5. There was nobody with 30k attack. You also didnt have the plethora of nodes you have in act6, you could take a wide variety of champs to clear the content. (i did it when it released). right now, r5s/r3s and still you are taking massive damage (6.3/6.4 only). That isnt fun.
Really really tough content can form the apex (unit collector). The summer of pain seems like another maze, yes that can be really really tough. Static content that is a pathway to progression? No.

My attack teams for the vast majority of Act 5 consisted of zero 5*s at all let alone any at R4. My 5* roster was horrendous so myself and plenty of other people were mostly using 4*s and quite a lot of them only at R4.

Again, making story content easy is fine. I just see no justification for the newest tier resources being gained through it at that point.

Gomezlink

People talk about rewards, but it's all RNG, it can come in quantities of crystal fragments, that still depends on RNG, and can venture into several extremely difficult contents, and a guy who does the basics have with the best champions that you

pseudosane

You guys are having a pointless debate. None of us have an idea what the compensation will look like, if it's ever given.

I have 100% cleared it and I'll take whatever Kabam gives. If they don't, whatever. I'm done with Act 6.

I do feel however that Kabam is going a little overboard with nerfing Act 6. I don't know, with that level of attack reduction, will Act 6 be even significantly different from 5.4?

Champion nerf is deserved as are some niche encounters like Mr Sinister and Acid Wash Mysterio. Attack reduction in 6.3 and 6.4 was needed but not to this degree.

Now the Cavalier Difficulty has got me worried. Will it be tuned in line with Act 6 difficulty in its current state or its nerfed version? I hope it's the former.
Yeah, they absolutely are gutting it. I'm pretty disappointed honestly. I'm done with it though so oh well. The things you mentioned and removing strength of number from 6.2.5 mordo are really all I personally felt were justified.

I don't want or expect compensation as whatever we get will be absolutely meaningless so I'd rather they did nothing honestly.
I feel bad that I'm upset that they are nerfing it so hard, but it is ridiculous. 40-60% reduction and up to 75% for bosses? The Hydra Adaptoid boss had about 40K attack (39,312) and with a 75% reduction, that brings it down to 10K (9,828).
It's not even going to be the same fight anymore.
One blocked hit with my r4 Stealthy took off somewhere around 2,200 health, now it'll take off around 550. The difference is huge. Is it any wonder why people who 100% feel like we deserve significant compensation?
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are nerfing it, but I think they are nerfing it too hard. I was expecting a 25-30% reduction in attack values across the board, that would have made exploration a lot easier, but still difficult. This attack value reduction instead makes the content a cakewalk and now people are going to get the same rewards for between 40-75% less effort than those of us who completed and explored Act 6 in its current form. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for our compensation to include more rewards, though my original post was a bit much (aim high).
Maybe I'm just being salty, but I do think we should get a little something extra in our compensation, after all, it was a lot harder for us. What do I think is reasonable now, after gauging the responses from my first?
10K Six star shards
50% t5cc selector
2t5b
8t2a
I would also be more than happy to have this as compensation:
a bunch of revives that don't expire
potions that don't expire
exclusive Orange title
exclusive Profile pic
I think the attack reductions are warranted. I dont really see an issue with how much they are being reduced. And i disagree with the content being a cakewalk with these reductions. 1 combo and you'll probably still die or get very close to it.
Not even close. The attack reduction is huge. You'll be able to sit there and block with R4s let alone R5s and survive. Basically anyone is going to be able to get through it at the level it will be brought down to.

I'm fine with that if that's what they want to do but do not for a second act like a 50% attack reduction is some trivial change.
I am going to make a counter argument, one that I have said before, it’s main story content. Everyone should be able to do it.

I personally don’t really think reducing the attack values were needed, I would have preferred more focus on certain fights but if the game has a future past act 6, everyone should reasonably be able to beat it
That counter only makes sense based on other games though. There's nothing that says that's how this game has to be made.

If they shift in that direction, that's fine but it's not how the game has been designed ever really. Also it doesn't mean everyone should be able to do it NOW.

It also brings into play if story content isn't going to be the apex of difficulty, why should it contain the apex of rewards? Would you be fine with all new new tier resources getting added to side quests like variant and having the difficulty jacked up as well?
Its been half a year since its been released, even more than that for 6.3. Judging by all these complaints (excluding you of course) not many were "ready" in your eyes. They unitmanned it through. Thats why there is so much regret in this thread. I, for one, saw this and said eff it.
The "apex" of content is Abyss (before that was LoL). Story content has to be reasonable so everyone can get through. While the attack reductions are surprising, the niche nodes still make it a pain (in a way), which makes it more reasonable. 30% reduction is welcome in my eyes. The current 50-70% makes it a lot more pleasant.
Previously (in before acts), attack values were never as high as the healthpools of your highest ranked characters. That is a real killer right there, that is what destroyed act6.
I'm not talking about stuff we get every 3+ plus years when I say apex of difficulty. I'm talking regular frequently added game content. You can't legitimately expect there to only be anything difficult every few years, that's ridiculous.

Attack values weren't THAT far off healthpools in later Act 5 either. 4/40 4*s have what around 11k health? Attack values in a lot of paths were 7-8k.

Like I said, if they want to make story content more accessible that's fine. The question from that point is, why should the newest tier of resources also be gained from it? Would people be so okay with Act content being gutted but having the same happen to the rewards and then adding all the high tier stuff to side events? I don't think they would personally. We'd have the same complaints just about different content. The only difference is this "story content should be easy" trope wouldn't fly.
5* R4s were the top champs available for act5. There was nobody with 30k attack. You also didnt have the plethora of nodes you have in act6, you could take a wide variety of champs to clear the content. (i did it when it released). right now, r5s/r3s and still you are taking massive damage (6.3/6.4 only). That isnt fun.
Really really tough content can form the apex (unit collector). The summer of pain seems like another maze, yes that can be really really tough. Static content that is a pathway to progression? No.

You guys are having a pointless debate. None of us have an idea what the compensation will look like, if it's ever given.

I have 100% cleared it and I'll take whatever Kabam gives. If they don't, whatever. I'm done with Act 6.

I do feel however that Kabam is going a little overboard with nerfing Act 6. I don't know, with that level of attack reduction, will Act 6 be even significantly different from 5.4?

Champion nerf is deserved as are some niche encounters like Mr Sinister and Acid Wash Mysterio. Attack reduction in 6.3 and 6.4 was needed but not to this degree.

Now the Cavalier Difficulty has got me worried. Will it be tuned in line with Act 6 difficulty in its current state or its nerfed version? I hope it's the former.
Yeah, they absolutely are gutting it. I'm pretty disappointed honestly. I'm done with it though so oh well. The things you mentioned and removing strength of number from 6.2.5 mordo are really all I personally felt were justified.

I don't want or expect compensation as whatever we get will be absolutely meaningless so I'd rather they did nothing honestly.
I feel bad that I'm upset that they are nerfing it so hard, but it is ridiculous. 40-60% reduction and up to 75% for bosses? The Hydra Adaptoid boss had about 40K attack (39,312) and with a 75% reduction, that brings it down to 10K (9,828).
It's not even going to be the same fight anymore.
One blocked hit with my r4 Stealthy took off somewhere around 2,200 health, now it'll take off around 550. The difference is huge. Is it any wonder why people who 100% feel like we deserve significant compensation?
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are nerfing it, but I think they are nerfing it too hard. I was expecting a 25-30% reduction in attack values across the board, that would have made exploration a lot easier, but still difficult. This attack value reduction instead makes the content a cakewalk and now people are going to get the same rewards for between 40-75% less effort than those of us who completed and explored Act 6 in its current form. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for our compensation to include more rewards, though my original post was a bit much (aim high).
Maybe I'm just being salty, but I do think we should get a little something extra in our compensation, after all, it was a lot harder for us. What do I think is reasonable now, after gauging the responses from my first?
10K Six star shards
50% t5cc selector
2t5b
8t2a
I would also be more than happy to have this as compensation:
a bunch of revives that don't expire
potions that don't expire
exclusive Orange title
exclusive Profile pic
I think the attack reductions are warranted. I dont really see an issue with how much they are being reduced. And i disagree with the content being a cakewalk with these reductions. 1 combo and you'll probably still die or get very close to it.
Not even close. The attack reduction is huge. You'll be able to sit there and block with R4s let alone R5s and survive. Basically anyone is going to be able to get through it at the level it will be brought down to.

I'm fine with that if that's what they want to do but do not for a second act like a 50% attack reduction is some trivial change.
I am going to make a counter argument, one that I have said before, it’s main story content. Everyone should be able to do it.

I personally don’t really think reducing the attack values were needed, I would have preferred more focus on certain fights but if the game has a future past act 6, everyone should reasonably be able to beat it
That counter only makes sense based on other games though. There's nothing that says that's how this game has to be made.

If they shift in that direction, that's fine but it's not how the game has been designed ever really. Also it doesn't mean everyone should be able to do it NOW.

It also brings into play if story content isn't going to be the apex of difficulty, why should it contain the apex of rewards? Would you be fine with all new new tier resources getting added to side quests like variant and having the difficulty jacked up as well?
Its been half a year since its been released, even more than that for 6.3. Judging by all these complaints (excluding you of course) not many were "ready" in your eyes. They unitmanned it through. Thats why there is so much regret in this thread. I, for one, saw this and said eff it.
The "apex" of content is Abyss (before that was LoL). Story content has to be reasonable so everyone can get through. While the attack reductions are surprising, the niche nodes still make it a pain (in a way), which makes it more reasonable. 30% reduction is welcome in my eyes. The current 50-70% makes it a lot more pleasant.
Previously (in before acts), attack values were never as high as the healthpools of your highest ranked characters. That is a real killer right there, that is what destroyed act6.
I'm not talking about stuff we get every 3+ plus years when I say apex of difficulty. I'm talking regular frequently added game content. You can't legitimately expect there to only be anything difficult every few years, that's ridiculous.

Attack values weren't THAT far off healthpools in later Act 5 either. 4/40 4*s have what around 11k health? Attack values in a lot of paths were 7-8k.

Like I said, if they want to make story content more accessible that's fine. The question from that point is, why should the newest tier of resources also be gained from it? Would people be so okay with Act content being gutted but having the same happen to the rewards and then adding all the high tier stuff to side events? I don't think they would personally. We'd have the same complaints just about different content. The only difference is this "story content should be easy" trope wouldn't fly.
5* R4s were the top champs available for act5. There was nobody with 30k attack. You also didnt have the plethora of nodes you have in act6, you could take a wide variety of champs to clear the content. (i did it when it released). right now, r5s/r3s and still you are taking massive damage (6.3/6.4 only). That isnt fun.
Really really tough content can form the apex (unit collector). The summer of pain seems like another maze, yes that can be really really tough. Static content that is a pathway to progression? No.
My attack teams for the vast majority of Act 5 consisted of zero 5*s at all let alone any at R4. My 5* roster was horrendous so myself and plenty of other people were mostly using 4*s and quite a lot of them only at R4.

Again, making story content easy is fine. I just see no justification for the newest tier resources being gained through it at that point.

mine was also 4* for the most part. My only r4 5* was OG cap marvel, that isnt the point though, It was possible to even take a combo to the face and come out alive at the end. Here in 6,3 it is insta death. CHamp like GG/punisher with hard to evade specials, man their specials murder your damn block. That was never an issue in act5. Even those like cable now, do a number when you block it. That stuff just isnt fair, isnt fun at all. Again, the game should never punish you that horribly for progression based content. Apex content, yes. Not for those 'needed' for progression.

as for you rewards points, that is why the rewards are so pathetic. 1 t5cc random. Abyss is more pleasant and gives three times the rewards.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Worknprogress

I could be wrong but I read the attack reduction being more targeted at 6.3 and 6.4
6.3 and 6.4 are the only chapters where attack went crazy. 6.1 and 6.2 were already easily manageable
That diss track iceman was the perfect example fully boosted quake healed her up and it still did all like 40k of her health attack just became ridiculous in 6:4

Used marvel with cosmic power boost for the diss trak path. Wasn't too bad with her really since she just goes indestructible immediately and you can blitz most fights with sp2s in binary. Without her, a lot of that path would have sucked

unknown

This content has been removed.

TheTalents

I could be wrong but I read the attack reduction being more targeted at 6.3 and 6.4
6.3 and 6.4 are the only chapters where attack went crazy. 6.1 and 6.2 were already easily manageable
That diss track iceman was the perfect example fully boosted quake healed her up and it still did all like 40k of her health attack just became ridiculous in 6:4
Used marvel with cosmic power boost for the diss trak path. Wasn't too bad with her really since she just goes indestructible immediately and you can blitz most fights with sp2s in binary. Without her, a lot of that path would have sucked

i still don't have a 5 or 6 star CMM and it was a awlful. I had to do it with CapIW, Quake, hyperion and I forget the rest but it certainly wasn't easy and it took some units.

TheTalents

To answer your question though I'm fine with Acts being much easier. (Easier meaning less attack) Act 6 is still not easy though, the nodes are too complicated for anybody to walk through them with ease even with a descent roster.

You just will be getting punished less which means less revives used to finish fights. I think Kabam should move towards end game rewards with similar side quests such as the maze. This is the direction they seem to be headed and I cosign this. I also only did initial clear of the maze because I didn't have a great solution for the Champion boss at that time and I didn't cry about it. I just got better and improved my roster. If side quests being hard is the expectation I think people will complain but it won't be the massive threads that we had with the Champion boss or act 6 gates.

LightYagami85

@Kabam Miike how about players that spent a lot units on tryin to finish The Champion in 6.2.6?
Will there be compensations as well or only for the ones who did it?
I mean it’s possible to spent ten thousands of units there and don’t finish him at all. So as far as I read they will be lost if one doesn’t finish him before the update.

Panchulon21

@Kabam Miike how about players that spent a lot units on tryin to finish The Champion in 6.2.6?
Will there be compensations as well or only for the ones who did it?
I mean it’s possible to spent ten thousands of units there and don’t finish him at all. So as far as I read they will be lost if one doesn’t finish him before the update.

I think they will compensate with consumables.

Werewrym

My biggest problem with act 6 was that two champs were really required for exploration. Ghost and Quake. Overall Act 6 was actually not too difficult but the paths where you needed a Ghost or Quake you REALLY needed a Ghost or Quake. I was lucky enough to obtain quake during my run at 100% act 6 and she made things way easier. If I didn't have her I'm sure it would have cost me a lot more than it did. I still to this day cannot get my hands on a Ghost and if I had her I'm sure I could have saved a lot of revives. Overall though act 6 100% was very cheap for me.

Panchulon21

Summoners!

Part 1 of our Roadmap is live! Head over to our blog to read thoughts on the past, present, and future of Quests in Marvel Contest of Champions! Our team goes over what we've learned from the Book 2 Act 1 Beta Test and how we'll be moving forward revisions to Act 6 and the Champion Boss Fight, and much more! Read all about it on our Blog! Click here!

As we mention in the post, we'd like to hear from you, our players, on what your Act 6 Pain Points with certain bosses were. We have some of our own plans and targets in the works, but they’re still early on and we don’t want to limit the possibilities by talking specifics just yet.

We're going to set up a player focus group with a selection of 20-30 Summoners from across The Battlerealm and work with them to do some discovery surrounding what made some of the more troubling fights problematic. We're looking for players that have attempted Act 6 and can identify areas in which they felt they faced a challenge that was more difficult than they expected.

Apply to be part of the Act 6 Pain Point Player Focus Group here.
Here's my feedback on road to Cavalier difficulty: 6.1.5 boss fight (Crossbones) is absurd with the nodes in place. Unless you have the right champion to counter the nodes, you're basically stuck and can't progress any further (double immune bleed + poison, and easily accessible heal block). I have two R5 champs (Dr. Doom and Captain America Infinity War) who are no use on this fight. I use my R4 duped Darkhawk. I boosted the **** out of him (30% champion boost, 10% attack boost, health boost, +8% tech special boost). I get in 106 hits before I'm KO, and he's still at 98% health because of his insane regen and my inability to get off anything other than sp1 before my power is drained. I can heal block at sp3, but that's never going to happen with the power drain node.

I either have to take him to R5 and hope that's enough (I REALLY don't want to R5 him just for one fight knowing that still may not even work), or wait until I get a champ like Sentinel, Iron Man Infinity War, etc.that can better manage the nodes. I have 25 5-star champs and none of them can handle this fight... who knows how long it's going to take me until I pull one who can, then be able to actually rank them up to a high enough level for this fight.

Hey when I cleared this fight and did it at 100% I didn’t have any viable counter for it either. No ghost, no Ms, no sentinel (still no sentinel at 5/6). I steamed rolled through with AA, rogue and ghost rider. One run I actually solod with ghost rider. It was like 900 hits but I did it. Another took revives with AA and rogue took revives and heavy boosts.

Point being if you really want to clear something and progress, sometimes you have to

unknown

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DannyB01

Since people are now dissing the developer of 6.2.5, I have to say my opinion.

I absolutely loved it. I used champs like Groot, Vulture, Psylocke, Doc Oc and Rogue just because of the gates and I enjoyed it. Looking at the reaction on forum and in LINE chats, we will probably never see a quest like this again. But one can only hope.

And you genuinely aren't bothered at all by Kabam making you revive those garbage champs to take on Mordo at the end? Nice to have a counter-argument but I completely disagree with your opinion lol.

gohard123

Since people are now dissing the developer of 6.2.5, I have to say my opinion.

I absolutely loved it. I used champs like Groot, Vulture, Psylocke, Doc Oc and Rogue just because of the gates and I enjoyed it. Looking at the reaction on forum and in LINE chats, we will probably never see a quest like this again. But one can only hope.
You have to be trolling, no way you solod some of those fights with champs like groot and vulture Psylocke sure, rogue definitely (I took on a lot in that quest With her). With that being said having to revive them just to fight Mordo (not even to possibly use them), was super annoying. The design of the mordo fight was completely atrocious.

Do not go gentle was bad but not horrible, requires skill that’s fine.

Tack on special delivery sure
Add hurt locker, now you’re being stupid
Add spite, wtf?
Then you got do not go gentle, that’s where we draw the line.
And on top of that everyone had to be alive to even have a chance? That’s just crazy.

If the boss fight was just special delivery OR hurt locker with spite and do not go gentle that’s fine.

Mordo boss design fight was probably the worst of them all. Right next to champion with no retreat node.

Honestly the rest of the bosses arent bad, ironman is kinda wacko with improved power gain but it’s cool, mysterio is annoying but do able, darkhawk not horrendous, grandmaster fun, marvel fine. But mordo.. that’s who pissed me off.

Groot for bleed starky spidey
vulture for havok
psylocke can possible do punisher (not proficient with her so do not know)