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Let's talk about Canadian Difficulty

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Comments

  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    My only problem with the first week of the Canadian difficulty is that it's somewhat easier than some of the Epic side quests we've had in the last few months.

    That's my only issue.

    Canadian should be a step up in difficulty when compared to Epic. Not the same/easier.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,234 ★★★★★
    edited July 2020
    Notsavage19 said:

    My only problem with the first week of the Canadian difficulty is that it's somewhat easier than some of the Epic side quests we've had in the last few months.

    That's my only issue.

    Canadian should be a step up in difficulty when compared to Epic. Not the same/easier.

    It's not really easier. It's about the same as the top-level Epic. Not counting those Labs. They were just needlessly harder, considering the range of people in them. These Quests also get harder over the weeks.
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    My only problem with the first week of the Canadian difficulty is that it's somewhat easier than some of the Epic side quests we've had in the last few months.

    That's my only issue.

    Canadian should be a step up in difficulty when compared to Epic. Not the same/easier.

    It's not really easier. It's about the same as the top-level Epic. Not counting those Labs. They were just needlessly harder, considering the range of people in them. These Quests also get harder over the weeks.
    Exactly. Same as top-level Epic. This should be harder than that. Even just slightly.
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    But also, Labs are basically always that difficult. People still manage to do 'em.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,234 ★★★★★
    Worknprogress said:

    GroundedWisdom said:




    Worknprogress said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Worknprogress said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Worknprogress said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    It's also worth noting this is called "Road to Cavalier", and not Cavalier itself. We can't necessarily assume it will look like the Side Quest. All they said was they would be preparing using the Events. I'm quite positive that Cavalier will look different.

    I'm legitimately not trying to be insulting but unless you're at a bare minimum having a cavalier title, your feedback is basically meaningless when it comes to this. The absolute bare minimum that should come into play here is someone that overreached and got the title regardless of not having a roster that supports it. Then that opinion should be out on the absolute bottom of the pile and barely even looked at. If you're not even there, it's not a discussion you should even be involved in
    Okay, back the Ego train up.
    Anyone can discuss anything on here. Including anyone who is doing Canadian, which I am.
    I haven't registered whether I think it's too hard, or not hard enough. We haven't even seen the whole thing yet.
    What I can say is it's a Side Quest that's for everyone Level 55 and up. It's not just for "Cavalier".
    Honestly, people are looking at this like a personal platform on what it should and shouldn't be, and there's more to it than battling opinions. They'll also be looking at the data.
    The Side Quest is for anyone, not bound to Titles.
    It's specifically been put into the game to tune the next EQ difficulty. That is it's ONLY purpose. So yes I as someone this difficulty is being tuned for, has an opinion on it while you, as someone who does not have a dog in this fight has absolutely no meaningful contribution to the discussion. I'm far from on of the people who discounts anything you say as that's absurd, but for this current topic, you have absolutely nothing meaningful to add
    No, it's not its only purpose. Your response is also extremely childish, considering you're trying to invalidate an opinion I never even gave. It's "Road to Cavalier". Not Cavalier. We had the same discussion with people arguing that they were Cavalier, and not Level 60, and Kabam themselves clarified that it's not bound to Titles. All I said was I believe Cav will look different. From that, you're getting all bent out of shape because I'm not saying, "Put some more stank on it.".
    It 100% is it's only purpose. It was stated as such. A new side quest difficulty was being introduced to gather data and feedback as to tune the new EQ difficulty. That's it's purpose. It's locked behind a level cap for whatever ridiculous reason that that's how side quests are metered. If you're not a part of the group it's being tuned for or even someone that barely meets that mark, you are absolutely not the person that needs to be addressing it.
    It was added to release another Side Quest Difficulty. Period. They're ALSO using it for data concerning Cavalier because they can be more fluid in those. You know those ambushes? Say hi to the data. You can continue to boost the bravado, but anyone doing it is contributing, and anyone can register feedback. Sorry 'bout it. But not.
    I'm not really surprised that someone that consistently gets involved in war discussions while having never actually competed in war also feels the need to interject here as well while never having actually done anything to merit that opinion.

    The side quest is being used to tune EQ for Cav players. If you're not even there yet or barely get there, I certainly don't and nor should the developers care what you think. If that hurts your feelings, I don't particularly care about that either.
    You keep coming back with the "I'm past where you are." response as if it's going to make it more valid.
    You want to register on Cavalier? Be my guest. Talk about Sasquatch. That's the gauge.
    The new Difficulty is not Cavalier. It's for everyone Level 55 and up, and will continue to be after Cavalier is released.
    By all means, keep telling me I don't have a right to give an opinion I never even gave. Haven't said it was too hard or too easy either way. You want to keep arguing something I never said, fill your boots. No matter how much more valid you think your opinion is, Imma be here.
  • ESFESF Posts: 1,944 ★★★★★
    Worknprogress said:

    ESF said:

    ItsDamien said:

    Worknprogress said:

    ItsDamien said:

    Worknprogress said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    It's also worth noting this is called "Road to Cavalier", and not Cavalier itself. We can't necessarily assume it will look like the Side Quest. All they said was they would be preparing using the Events. I'm quite positive that Cavalier will look different.

    I'm legitimately not trying to be insulting but unless you're at a bare minimum having a cavalier title, your feedback is basically meaningless when it comes to this. The absolute bare minimum that should come into play here is someone that overreached and got the title regardless of not having a roster that supports it. Then that opinion should be out on the absolute bottom of the pile and barely even looked at. If you're not even there, it's not a discussion you should even be involved in
    What if I only got Cavalier about a year ago with R4 Corvus, R4 Spidey Gwen, Rank 3 Medusa, Rank 3 Starky, and Rank 3 AA? Does my opinion count for less now, even if I've chosen not to do the rest of Act 6 due to laziness and knowing that nerfs are coming?
    Yes, people at the absolute bottom of the tier should definitely matter less. It makes no sense whatsoever to tune a difficulty for people that barely got to that tier in the first place.
    But I didn't barely get to that tier. I got there quite comfortably with no units spent, just a few revives I had in my inventory.

    My point is, although my story progression stopped a year ago because frankly I couldn't be bothered to do more, and in my current position I BREEZED through this new difficulty so far including the buffed up tech paths, my opinion is worth less somehow because I haven't achieved an arbitrary milestone that people in the community are holding as a Bastion of superiority? I could crush Act 6 with the roster I currently have, I choose not to because I have no need to currently and nothing to prove. This wouldn't make any opinion that I have on the current difficulty any less valid than any other person who is able to do this side event, considering it isn't in fact locked behind a Cavalier title or any other title, simply a level standpoint. Until Cavalier EQ is out, and the people who "only got Cavalier" start complaining about difficulty, will the argument of "Well you haven't progressed further in Act 6" hold any real validity.
    See, this is exactly what I was getting at earlier: We have to be careful in how we talk about players we have never seen play.

    For example, I am not Elder’s Bane. People might look at that and say, “Ooooh, ESF can’t play.”

    Don’t kid yourselves. I can play. This game ain’t that hard, and I ain’t bad.

    I have all of the final two acts done — aka the hard ones — and just have no time or desire to beat the Collector 26 times UNTIL I decide I want that generic 5-star Awakening Gem for a specific character.

    For example, right now I have one Mutant AG. It’s waiting for Omega Red.

    But if Magneto’s buff is awesome, my 5-star Mags is unawakened. So I would put the gem into Mags and then the second I got Omega Red, I would clear the rest of 5.2.

    I am not saying that people should necessarily talk about content they haven’t cleared.

    I am just saying that I know some people play this game on a tight schedule, don’t have the time or desire to tap out 2 million hit points on multiple characters, but that doesn’t mean they can’t

    I'm not sure what this has to do with anything honestly. If someone has the ability to beat difficult content but chooses not to then they do it later.

    That doesn't mean they automatically have a dog in the fight when it comes to the next level though. If you're not there yet whether by choice, ability, or roster you're still not there.
    What I am saying is that multiple people can be right about how this topic IN A VERY NARROW WAY: If you’re banging out monthly Uncollected in your sleep and the Epic side quests and Variants and are Cavalier, then you can play this game. You understand how nodes work and interact.

    You have an idea of what’s happening as far as what decent tuning looks like and can offer an opinion about that. So you do have a dog in the fight.

    Does that mean you passed the Champion skill check if you haven’t cleared 6.2.6? Of course not, so that person shouldn’t necessarily be offering an opinion about that particular fight or set of nodes with a demand to change.

    Multiple things can be true at once

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,234 ★★★★★
    Notsavage19 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    My only problem with the first week of the Canadian difficulty is that it's somewhat easier than some of the Epic side quests we've had in the last few months.

    That's my only issue.

    Canadian should be a step up in difficulty when compared to Epic. Not the same/easier.

    It's not really easier. It's about the same as the top-level Epic. Not counting those Labs. They were just needlessly harder, considering the range of people in them. These Quests also get harder over the weeks.
    Exactly. Same as top-level Epic. This should be harder than that. Even just slightly.
    It's Week 1. Lol. We know it's going to get harder. It's not necessarily going to be as hard as Cavalier. It's a Side Quest. Many Epics aren't as hard as Uncollected.
  • xNigxNig Posts: 7,242 ★★★★★
    Imo, difficulty for Canadian side quest needs to be ramped up.

    Across the map, double the health and attack, even the easy path(s).

    For the other 6 paths except the 2 easy ones, add 1-2 more buffs that require a certain method of play, eg. Destructive feedback, Do not go gentle, Buffet, the one that gives furies then degen unless you intercept.

    Otherwise, it’s really really... too easy.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,234 ★★★★★
    I'm going to comment whether you approve or not, so I'm moving on in the discussion. You're free to think whatever you want about my thoughts. I'm not bothered.
  • ESFESF Posts: 1,944 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    Imo, difficulty for Canadian side quest needs to be ramped up.

    Across the map, double the health and attack, even the easy path(s).

    For the other 6 paths except the 2 easy ones, add 1-2 more buffs that require a certain method of play, eg. Destructive feedback, Do not go gentle, Buffet, the one that gives furies then degen unless you intercept.

    Otherwise, it’s really really... too easy.

    Let’s see what next week looks like, but I agree about the health pools, think double the attack might be a bit much but would need to see it, don’t mind another node like those you mentioned but need to see what two would look like
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    Imo, difficulty for Canadian side quest needs to be ramped up.

    Across the map, double the health and attack, even the easy path(s).

    For the other 6 paths except the 2 easy ones, add 1-2 more buffs that require a certain method of play, eg. Destructive feedback, Do not go gentle, Buffet, the one that gives furies then degen unless you intercept.

    Otherwise, it’s really really... too easy.

    Yeah they were basically just longer mole man fights which is inherently boring in itself
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,234 ★★★★★
    The bottom line is, they're starting off cautiously, which is reasonable. Legendary Difficulty is new so it's going to grow the same way Epic has. There's a reason they called it Road to Cavalier and not Cavalier. No one gets it more than I do. I've been pushing for it for a long time now to keep progression consistent for a large number of people. The difficulty of Canadian and the difficulty of Cavalier are two separate subjects. The Sasquatch Encounters are being used to gauge Cavalier, and I'd say it's not that far off from something that should be in it. The difficulty of Legendary (Canadian) is another story. Harder than Epic is logical, and it will likely be by the end of the month. However, it's still going to be open to people who are or are not Cavalier, so making it a true challenge for the Top 5% isn't exactly practical. Which means within reason-harder. We've seen what happens with customizing content to the top percentage with Act 7, which is why I made the comparison. I can see them going up to about 40k or so perhaps, but I doubt it's going to be insane each month. Side Quests are monotonous in general. We know that. There's other upcoming content for a much more challenging aspect.
  • ESFESF Posts: 1,944 ★★★★★
    I actually have a question for folks, as well: Is your expectation that Cavalier content be tuned at the 5/65 level? Not that you couldn’t try it with other characters, but my thought process is that an average player would struggle with anything less than a 5/65 level of DPS/utility
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,234 ★★★★★
    Hmm...that's a good question. I'd say logically, they should have a hard time beyond Chapter 1 without them.
  • Colinwhitworth69Colinwhitworth69 Posts: 7,171 ★★★★★
    Keep the easy path, make the other ones a little harder.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    ESF said:

    I actually have a question for folks, as well: Is your expectation that Cavalier content be tuned at the 5/65 level? Not that you couldn’t try it with other characters, but my thought process is that an average player would struggle with anything less than a 5/65 level of DPS/utility

    Absolutely. R5s are without a doubt still the primary actually utilised champs even for the very top. RE 6*s are primarily prestige plays with a slight attribute bonus still

  • MenkentMenkent Posts: 889 ★★★★
    It's just week 1. I suspect it will get less chill pretty quickly.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Things like health and attack aren't really my concern though personally. I'm more concerned about node/fight design. Ramping up health and attack isn't anything new for me especially at the level we have so far. I've finished Act 6 completely, making mole man fights longer is just a hassle.

    I'd personally prefer this be where they actually experiment with this new direction they claim to be taking for story content going forward.
  • JessieSJessieS Posts: 1,391 ★★★★
    edited July 2020
    It’s close to impossible for the average uncollected player . Hardcore players may be the cash cows but they are the minority . Most people are casual players
  • xNigxNig Posts: 7,242 ★★★★★
    edited July 2020
    ESF said:

    I actually have a question for folks, as well: Is your expectation that Cavalier content be tuned at the 5/65 level? Not that you couldn’t try it with other characters, but my thought process is that an average player would struggle with anything less than a 5/65 level of DPS/utility

    Honestly, for longevity sake, it should be tuned for 6* R3s. Or at least make the fights more exciting (like having weird node combinations). Currently it’s still “bring x champ, faceroll.”

    A weird node combination is something like Power Shield + Flux Dispersal + Safeguard/Rage.
  • Aomine_Daiki10Aomine_Daiki10 Posts: 1,623 ★★★★★
    The difficulty was not what I was expecting knowing kabaam but it is a good start just need to tweak the health pools a little bit higher with few nodes on the main boss and it should be a fun time.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    I think it’s evident they are taking a new direction with how they challenge the masses in time sink progression content. It challenges skill sets that people might be lacking while allowing them to still complete the content without breaking the bank if they put in the effort.

    If you want that 1%er challenge I really hope the Summer of Pain delivers for you and me as well.
  • xNigxNig Posts: 7,242 ★★★★★
    CoatHang3r said:

    I think it’s evident they are taking a new direction with how they challenge the masses in time sink progression content. It challenges skill sets that people might be lacking while allowing them to still complete the content without breaking the bank if they put in the effort.

    If you want that 1%er challenge I really hope the Summer of Pain delivers for you and me as well.

    Wouldn’t be surprised at the crying then. Lol
  • arsjumarsjum Posts: 412 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    My only problem with the first week of the Canadian difficulty is that it's somewhat easier than some of the Epic side quests we've had in the last few months.

    That's my only issue.

    Canadian should be a step up in difficulty when compared to Epic. Not the same/easier.

    It's not really easier. It's about the same as the top-level Epic. Not counting those Labs. They were just needlessly harder, considering the range of people in them. These Quests also get harder over the weeks.
    Exactly. Same as top-level Epic. This should be harder than that. Even just slightly.
    It's Week 1. Lol. We know it's going to get harder. It's not necessarily going to be as hard as Cavalier. It's a Side Quest. Many Epics aren't as hard as Uncollected.
    You keep saying that. How do you know? Or are you just assuming that your assumption is self-evidently true? I don't remember the Mole Man expeditions getting harder in the later weeks.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,234 ★★★★★
    arsjum said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    My only problem with the first week of the Canadian difficulty is that it's somewhat easier than some of the Epic side quests we've had in the last few months.

    That's my only issue.

    Canadian should be a step up in difficulty when compared to Epic. Not the same/easier.

    It's not really easier. It's about the same as the top-level Epic. Not counting those Labs. They were just needlessly harder, considering the range of people in them. These Quests also get harder over the weeks.
    Exactly. Same as top-level Epic. This should be harder than that. Even just slightly.
    It's Week 1. Lol. We know it's going to get harder. It's not necessarily going to be as hard as Cavalier. It's a Side Quest. Many Epics aren't as hard as Uncollected.
    You keep saying that. How do you know? Or are you just assuming that your assumption is self-evidently true? I don't remember the Mole Man expeditions getting harder in the later weeks.
    Yes, it's an assumption. This also isn't Mole Man. Quite similar, but not the same.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,234 ★★★★★
    Also, Canadian is harder than Epic. That's part of the point of having it. So Epic isn't ramped up too high for people who have been doing it every month. The entire point I made during the Labs. This is a Side Event. It's not Cavalier itself.
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