Summoners, due to a technical issue, this week's series of Alliance Quests will be cancelled at 4pm PT. There will not be any Rewards for this series. The next series of Alliance Quests will start on April 18 at 12pm PT. We will be assessing the impact on Alliances and compensating accordingly, as well as returning Alliance Tickets.

Matchmaking Discussion [Merged Threads]

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Comments

  • danielmathdanielmath Posts: 3,105 ★★★★★

    That's the whole point I'm making. If you're placed in even Matches and can only win half of them, that's not the fault of lower Alliances winning more of theirs. If you want to talk about skill, as far as I'm concerned, it starts with a fair fight. Not riding on the misfortunes of people who can never win.

    Here’s another one where you compare the matches of 4 stars vs 4 stars to 6 vs 6. While ignoring the efforts of those who worked to grow those rosters yet insulting them as unskilled.
    I also said that, and that applies to anyone. You can't get ahead by winning only half your Wars. What you're saying is people deserve more for having bigger Champs and that's not a given. It's based on performance.
    No I didn’t say that. Unsurprisingly, you’re making things up again. I said you should have to beat the team above you. Not whatever team has a similar prestige. That’s stupid and unfair to teams playing actual hard teams that took the time to develop their teams and skills.
    Having the Champs doesn't award anything. Using them in War does. People earned their Rewards based on the Points they put up. Not just because their Champs were higher than others on the board. You don't need to beat weaker Alliances above you. You have to beat more of your own Wars so you can get more Points. Not really hard to understand. People don't take someone's spot because they don't own it. They earn it with what Points they put up.
    I actually tend to agree with a decent portion of the stuff you say even when others don't, but you're just completely wrong with this matchmaking stuff, it's a bummer.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,869 ★★★★★

    That's the whole point I'm making. If you're placed in even Matches and can only win half of them, that's not the fault of lower Alliances winning more of theirs. If you want to talk about skill, as far as I'm concerned, it starts with a fair fight. Not riding on the misfortunes of people who can never win.

    Here’s another one where you compare the matches of 4 stars vs 4 stars to 6 vs 6. While ignoring the efforts of those who worked to grow those rosters yet insulting them as unskilled.
    I also said that, and that applies to anyone. You can't get ahead by winning only half your Wars. What you're saying is people deserve more for having bigger Champs and that's not a given. It's based on performance.
    No I didn’t say that. Unsurprisingly, you’re making things up again. I said you should have to beat the team above you. Not whatever team has a similar prestige. That’s stupid and unfair to teams playing actual hard teams that took the time to develop their teams and skills.
    Having the Champs doesn't award anything. Using them in War does. People earned their Rewards based on the Points they put up. Not just because their Champs were higher than others on the board. You don't need to beat weaker Alliances above you. You have to beat more of your own Wars so you can get more Points. Not really hard to understand. People don't take someone's spot because they don't own it. They earn it with what Points they put up.
    I actually tend to agree with a decent portion of the stuff you say even when others don't, but you're just completely wrong with this matchmaking stuff, it's a bummer.
    I'm not actually. The Season is just like the Arena. You get more Points for more consecutive Wins. Just like a Streak. Imagine me saying I don't like someone being ahead of me in the Arena because I'm using Teams of R5s, and they're winning more Fights with R4s. Kabam should double and triple their Matches (in some cases, more than quadruple) so they can lose their Streak and I can put up more Points.
  • Speeds80Speeds80 Posts: 1,754 ★★★★
    Arena isnt taking rewards from a stronger team but never having To face them, because you are protected by a prestige status, we also have 3* arena for noobs 6* arena is going to be really tough for them with 3*s
  • Speeds80Speeds80 Posts: 1,754 ★★★★
    edited July 2020
    Oh and a 3* roster can be very competitive ... for 3* champs. 6* champs, not so much. You couldn’t have given a more apt example
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,869 ★★★★★
    QuikPik said:

    If you are going to use arena as an analogy. If I get a 60 win streak with 10k prestige account and a 5k prestige account also gets a 60 win streak, who do you think is going to have the higher score? Now should I be subject to different rewards because I have a larger account?

    If the 10k Prestige keeps losing its Streak, then the 5k will win more Points.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,869 ★★★★★

    That's the whole point I'm making. If you're placed in even Matches and can only win half of them, that's not the fault of lower Alliances winning more of theirs. If you want to talk about skill, as far as I'm concerned, it starts with a fair fight. Not riding on the misfortunes of people who can never win.

    Here’s another one where you compare the matches of 4 stars vs 4 stars to 6 vs 6. While ignoring the efforts of those who worked to grow those rosters yet insulting them as unskilled.
    I also said that, and that applies to anyone. You can't get ahead by winning only half your Wars. What you're saying is people deserve more for having bigger Champs and that's not a given. It's based on performance.
    No I didn’t say that. Unsurprisingly, you’re making things up again. I said you should have to beat the team above you. Not whatever team has a similar prestige. That’s stupid and unfair to teams playing actual hard teams that took the time to develop their teams and skills.
    Having the Champs doesn't award anything. Using them in War does. People earned their Rewards based on the Points they put up. Not just because their Champs were higher than others on the board. You don't need to beat weaker Alliances above you. You have to beat more of your own Wars so you can get more Points. Not really hard to understand. People don't take someone's spot because they don't own it. They earn it with what Points they put up.
    I actually tend to agree with a decent portion of the stuff you say even when others don't, but you're just completely wrong with this matchmaking stuff, it's a bummer.
    I'm not actually. The Season is just like the Arena. You get more Points for more consecutive Wins. Just like a Streak. Imagine me saying I don't like someone being ahead of me in the Arena because I'm using Teams of R5s, and they're winning more Fights with R4s. Kabam should double and triple their Matches (in some cases, more than quadruple) so they can lose their Streak and I can put up more Points.
    No what your suggesting is that smaller allies should get preferential treatment end of.
    At this point it isn’t even an opinion but you are just disputing a fact
    No one is getting preferential treatment. People are saying those Allies didn't earn their spot and I'm saying exactly how they did.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,869 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    Let’s put it this way in terms of your arena analogy.

    Player A has 6k prestige and grinds arena with 4*s. Using 4*s, he grinded 5m.

    Player B has 10k prestige and grinds arena with 5/6*s. Using his champs, he grinded 65m.

    The system then rewards Player A and Player B the exact same reward (eg the 5* featured champ) for their scores. Is this fair?

    There’s a reason why arena is broken into 4* Basic, 4* Featured and 5* Featured. That’s the “tier” system you’re asking for in war.

    And I can guarantee you, splitting the rewards into tiers will have no difference compared to the current system post-adjustment.

    It doesn't matter what they're working with in the end. All that matters is the Points they put up. This entire situation is based on a judgment that these Allies don't deserve what they did based on the Wars they didn't have. Which is a perversion in and of itself.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,869 ★★★★★
    "They're winning all their Wars and we only one half, but we're bigger. We deserve more."
    Um....not with less Wins.
  • SkitardSkitard Posts: 51
    Speeds80 said:

    @Skitard if you think act 6 doesn’t require skill, for a non spender, you are in for a rude awakening when you get to the champion. The circle in my picture was to highlight the fact I have over 200 war mvps, that means a level of skill, years in the game perfecting skill deserves rewards that aren’t silver. this season I will be fighting alliances that placed far higher than me and who’s war ratings were far higher than ours, who can’t clear half the map of 4/55 and 5/65 defenders. please tell me how easy it is to fight 5/65 dooms, things and korgs, I’ve been doing it for years, for 3* shards, I boss killed every war last season without one death. the system was broken af. You aren’t skilled because you have a weak roster. And you aren’t more skilled than me because you could beat half empty war teams. Welcome To the new tried tested and fairer system, sorry but it’s going to be ugly for a while because of how broken the previous system was
    I suggested tiers at the start but quickly saw how exploitable that would be, if you are happy with lesser rewards than current, all you really are begging for is special cool sounding titles, we made platinum in war tier 3. (Under 6k prestige war) it has the same rewards as war tier 1 silver 1 rewards. How about you just change your attitude to grateful if you make silver 1, for a 5k alliance that’s a great achievement with applicable rewards, and these bigger alliances like mine won’t be at your level for long at all,

    At no point in my posts did I say act 6 was a cake walk... that's you once again not comprehending what was said... I'm uncollected... and that was rough to get... even with r4 and r3 5 stars and r5 4 stars... and for our achievements we have been rewarded... but that has absolutely nothing to do with the war system... but when i say "make a tier bracket system that allows weaker alliances to be able to earn a fraction of the 6 star shards that the current system only allows ridiculously high rated alliances to earn" (and no i don't mean alliances running half asses 3 and 4 star champs...) you guys are acting like I'm saying "screw the high powered players"... which I'm not.. I'm saying don't screw the weak guys but still reward the strong guys...
  • CaptainGameCaptainGame Posts: 343 ★★★

    That's the whole point I'm making. If you're placed in even Matches and can only win half of them, that's not the fault of lower Alliances winning more of theirs. If you want to talk about skill, as far as I'm concerned, it starts with a fair fight. Not riding on the misfortunes of people who can never win.

    Here’s another one where you compare the matches of 4 stars vs 4 stars to 6 vs 6. While ignoring the efforts of those who worked to grow those rosters yet insulting them as unskilled.
    I also said that, and that applies to anyone. You can't get ahead by winning only half your Wars. What you're saying is people deserve more for having bigger Champs and that's not a given. It's based on performance.
    No I didn’t say that. Unsurprisingly, you’re making things up again. I said you should have to beat the team above you. Not whatever team has a similar prestige. That’s stupid and unfair to teams playing actual hard teams that took the time to develop their teams and skills.
    Having the Champs doesn't award anything. Using them in War does. People earned their Rewards based on the Points they put up. Not just because their Champs were higher than others on the board. You don't need to beat weaker Alliances above you. You have to beat more of your own Wars so you can get more Points. Not really hard to understand. People don't take someone's spot because they don't own it. They earn it with what Points they put up.
    I actually tend to agree with a decent portion of the stuff you say even when others don't, but you're just completely wrong with this matchmaking stuff, it's a bummer.
    I'm not actually. The Season is just like the Arena. You get more Points for more consecutive Wins. Just like a Streak. Imagine me saying I don't like someone being ahead of me in the Arena because I'm using Teams of R5s, and they're winning more Fights with R4s. Kabam should double and triple their Matches (in some cases, more than quadruple) so they can lose their Streak and I can put up more Points.
    No what your suggesting is that smaller allies should get preferential treatment end of.
    At this point it isn’t even an opinion but you are just disputing a fact
    No one is getting preferential treatment. People are saying those Allies didn't earn their spot and I'm saying exactly how they did.
    Ok someone wins 2 amateur boxing matches do they deserve a world title
    Absolutely! They put up more pointz!!!
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,869 ★★★★★

    "They're winning all their Wars and we only one half, but we're bigger. We deserve more."
    Um....not with less Wins.

    you REALLY don't think it matters who you face? beating the lowest ranked alliance deserves more then losing to kenob in your mind?
    Don't even get me started on that one. Winning all your Wars and still starting a baby Alliance to take others out is about as greedy as it gets.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,869 ★★★★★
    Timone147 said:

    @GroundedWisdom do you really think that the only difference between players in a 5000 prestige alliance and a 10000 prestige alliance is rosters size.

    I would guarantee that a majority of the time a very large skill difference as well. Those players in a 10k prestige ally have grinded through content that forces people to evolve their skill even if they are big spenders. Also many players at that level are f2p or barely spend so they had to evolve their skills to overcome without spending.

    The match ups in previous seasons are what they were given so ya not their fault. But can we stop pretending that the only difference between a 5000 prestige alliance and a 10000 prestige alliance is roster size. Can we stop pretending that a 10k alliance verse a 10k alliance is the same as a 5k vs a 5k. The time spent in game does more than just grow your roster.

    Just as long as we can stop pretending this is about the Rewards and not just about getting even with them for winning.
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Posts: 784 ★★★

    xNig said:

    Let’s put it this way in terms of your arena analogy.

    Player A has 6k prestige and grinds arena with 4*s. Using 4*s, he grinded 5m.

    Player B has 10k prestige and grinds arena with 5/6*s. Using his champs, he grinded 65m.

    The system then rewards Player A and Player B the exact same reward (eg the 5* featured champ) for their scores. Is this fair?

    There’s a reason why arena is broken into 4* Basic, 4* Featured and 5* Featured. That’s the “tier” system you’re asking for in war.

    And I can guarantee you, splitting the rewards into tiers will have no difference compared to the current system post-adjustment.

    It doesn't matter what they're working with in the end. All that matters is the Points they put up. This entire situation is based on a judgment that these Allies don't deserve what they did based on the Wars they didn't have. Which is a perversion in and of itself.
    Because they face the SAME type of matchups throughout. Unless you trigger a death match which is your fault.
    Here, bigger and smaller alliances weren't facing the same matchups. It definitely sucks for the smaller alliances atm to just lose, but it sucked for the other alliances in a way as well.
    I've also noticed that a lot of the alliances are trying for 100%. Why go for it if you know you will lose? I'm talking about complete mismatch btw. Either just boss rush and save items or clear whatever is possible and save items. It's a bad situation, but better to save resources.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,869 ★★★★★
    Timone147 said:

    @GroundedWisdom for some maybe but for the majority I do think it’s rewards. I know for me that is definitely it. I’ve had friends quit, alliances fall apart and really seen a lot of frustration because of this issue from people I play with.

    Little over a year ago I had a good alliance with lots of pretty good people of decent skill overall. Some of us were higher skilled and had already left the grind of higher plat levels. Overall though it was Very organized and great leader We were pushing for plat 4 and we’re close a lot but never could get there. We always got stuck on the edge. Eventually people peeled off because the ceiling wouldn’t break. The higher skilled went back up to plat 3+ or dialed back more and the others broke away to find somewhere else to try.

    I decided to dial back even further myself into a lower alliance that only ran map 4 and wasn’t nearly as organized. They were lower prestige and I really helped to teach them a lot. You know what we did within 2 seasons of me being there. We hit plat 4. That was when I new there was a problem. That alliance wouldn’t have stood a chance against my previous one. They had some stronger fighters but their strongest would have been middle of the road in the previous one. It was evident in the match ups we were getting immediately. Same tier same rating way easier matchups.

    It is about rewards. The game is basically all about rewards and roster building and progression for most people. Most that I have played with do not want to beat up on lesser alliances or even think about the alliances they beat or lose against. The care about the rewards and that’s it.

    Rewards could have been resolved differently.
  • Timone147Timone147 Posts: 1,220 ★★★★
    And that’s why I for one am most in favor of season being ended or changed drastically. Overall this model is broken and doesn’t work.

    This will be better when it done settling but that doesn’t mean fixed completely as war season model in general is still a dumpster fire to me.
  • CaptainGameCaptainGame Posts: 343 ★★★

    Timone147 said:

    @GroundedWisdom do you really think that the only difference between players in a 5000 prestige alliance and a 10000 prestige alliance is rosters size.

    I would guarantee that a majority of the time a very large skill difference as well. Those players in a 10k prestige ally have grinded through content that forces people to evolve their skill even if they are big spenders. Also many players at that level are f2p or barely spend so they had to evolve their skills to overcome without spending.

    The match ups in previous seasons are what they were given so ya not their fault. But can we stop pretending that the only difference between a 5000 prestige alliance and a 10000 prestige alliance is roster size. Can we stop pretending that a 10k alliance verse a 10k alliance is the same as a 5k vs a 5k. The time spent in game does more than just grow your roster.

    Just as long as we can stop pretending this is about the Rewards and not just about getting even with them for winning.
    I’ll add this to the list of insult citations we were chatting about earlier.
This discussion has been closed.