Matchmaking Discussion [Merged Threads]

GroundedWisdom · July 2020

Since the measurement is over a period of a number of Wars, that has to be for all Wars.

GroundedWisdom · July 2020

At least for the number they're counting towards the end.

Speeds80 · July 2020

In a few weeks we will all be back to fighting similar strength opponents than we are used to, the difference is mine will be in gold 1 and yours will be in silver 1 which were designed to have prizes to match your game progression, then broken by the old system. the only difference is when you win 97% of your wars you will start facing stronger alliances, that’s standard competition, the entitlement is that you are askIng for a system you can keep winning 97% of your wars, forever, the only way that was happening was because you could only fight Weak alliances, brackets idea work except until you actually realise how hard they will be to implement and how easy to manipulate. The top alliances will start doing shell alliances and second account allliances to dominate them too. And when you realise like the experienced ones here that when the broken war ratings a level out we will be back to the system we ran for 9 seasons that actually worked far better than this for all alliances. If you want to relax and use no items you drop For a while until you find a new level to be competitive at, if that’s a lower rated alliance spending on their way up... Or actually more skilful then great, that’s fair, good on them
They are earning their higher rewards.

Speeds80 · July 2020

And if you want to compare this to race relations you’re the equivalent of a white South African saying bring back the unfair system (apartheid) because it was really good for me
Basically you don’t want to have to fight the people who’s rewards you’ve been taken and want to keep doing so

Skitard · July 2020

Arsoz said:

Skitard said:
yes @Arsoz ... that way you still have a shot of getting great rewards even if you are a medium leveled alliance... like a small amount of 6 star shards... I'm talkin a few hundred not thousands... and i believe all placements in the high leveled alliances should receive 6 star shard rewards as well... hundreds for the lower thousands for the higher... I'm not saying ridiculously high rewards for the qeak and low rewards for the strong like these guys are hellbent on believing i said...
Yeah idk if i can say this but injustice 2 mobile has a gamemode called champions arena where there are 9 divisions and if you get enough points you advance to the next division and so on but instead of demotion if you have enough points to not pass but not get demoted then you stay in your division

And do people buy this fair?

Speeds80 · July 2020

It’s not that a tier system couldn’t work, it’s just that in the big picture what you are freaking out about won’t be here in a few weeks. And the headache of designing and implementing that system won’t be that big a deal once these war ratings level out. This season is a shambles, maybe kabam should give everyone one tier higher rewards than where they finish, that would appease a lot of people. Maybe a design idea seperate chat is a good idea, the second issue is that if you think lower tier alliances deserve gold level rewards because they have been able to get them and because they can beat other low level teams, you just took the motivation out of the veteran room, we have played and love this game for a long time, we are a little protective about too much rewards too early in the game

GroundedWisdom · July 2020

Speeds80 said:
It’s not that a tier system couldn’t work, it’s just that in the big picture what you are freaking out about won’t be here in a few weeks. And the headache of designing and implementing that system won’t be that big a deal once these war ratings level out. This season is a shambles, maybe kabam should give everyone one tier higher rewards than where they finish, that would appease a lot of people. Maybe a design idea seperate chat is a good idea, the second issue is that if you think lower tier alliances deserve gold level rewards because they have been able to get them and because they can beat other low level teams, you just took the motivation out of the veteran room, we have played and love this game for a long time, we are a little protective about too much rewards too early in the game

The problem is it's a few weeks of sabotaging their Season outcome.

xNig · July 2020

That system was the old system AQ was using.

Ask around and see which system players (those that have been through both, not the wannabe newbies) preferred.

GroundedWisdom · July 2020

xNig said:
That system was the old system AQ was using.

Ask around and see which system players (those that have been through both, not the wannabe newbies) preferred.

People who have been around long enough to be high enough not to be affected by this prefer this way.

Speeds80 · July 2020

GroundedWisdom said:

Speeds80 said:
I

The problem is it's a few weeks of sabotaging their Season outcome.
Yeah I totally agree with that I just think the call for a tiered system or bringing back the old system is a freak out about this one season thinking it’s the new norm, compensation for this season would be completely justified in my opinion.

Skitard · July 2020

Sorry @Arsoz that was meant to say "do players find it to be fair on injustice?... if so that's what I'm talking about... yes...

GroundedWisdom · July 2020

@Speeds80 Sorry, I didn't want to mess up that quote any further.
I was just explaining the reasoning behind the system I suggested. At this point, the Season is underway and it is what it is. I'm not sure about Compensation, but in an ideal solution, the Matches that were part of this adjsutment period should not have counted towards the Season.

Skitard · July 2020

Speeds80 said:
And if you want to compare this to race relations you’re the equivalent of a white South African saying bring back the unfair system (apartheid) because it was really good for me
Basically you don’t want to have to fight the people who’s rewards you’ve been taken and want to keep doing so

and if you want to compare this to race relations you're like the white plantation owner saying bring back slavery we are more superior and deserve everything that is good... they are inferior to us and deserve nothing...?

Two can play that game...

Speeds80 · July 2020

No the corrupt system that was being exploited and advantaging one group over the other was the last system, the new system is as fair as anyone can design so it hardly equates to slavery

Speeds80 · July 2020

Let me remind you the last system advantaged low prestige, the taking away of that dynamic, from realisation it was broken Was the restoring of equality, me having a stronger team is now being fairly treated and my rights to earn rewards by facing competitively, not disadvantaged By segregation as it was by the last system, ps I’m First Nation New Zealander one of the strongest race relation countries in the world, we recognised the native population as having full rights, equal parliamentary representation and land ownership rights in 1840, we strongly opposed apartheid

LeNoirFaineant · July 2020

Skitard said:

Ebony_Naw said:

Skitard said:
Guess it's pointless to argue with them @GroundedWisdom... they don't agree with a bracketing reward system because they paid for all the upgrades they could get to increase their skills... only to find that skill wasn't included in the bundle... so they are all going to disagree with everything we say... since we didn't drop hundreds/thousands of dollars into the game, then we don't deserve to be rewarded for being able to win fights... but since they did they deserve tons of 5 and 6 star shards even if they lose every war...

For those of you who do agree with a bracketing system... kudos to you...

for those who don't... don't worry... kabam cares about you enough to reward you for your lack of skill...

The bracketing system has one major advantage, in that you would never have to face an alliance that ridiculously outmatched you. Certainly every individual war would be more fun. One question I have is where do you put the brackets? The issue with parsing continuous variables into discrete categories is where do you draw the line? I think we would all agree that there is a big gap between a 5k and 9k alliance, but what about a 5k and 7k ally? 7k and 8k? 8.5k and 9k? 9k and 9.1k? Where are we putting these brackets and why there? No matter where Kabam would draw the line, people would get shafted.

But even then, let's say Kabam were to find that perfect sweet spot to separate tiers, there is yet another issue, which is perhaps even more flawed in my opinion than the initial one I brought up. Namely, your league is stagnant for the entire season. Sure, you're fighting for rewards, but you have no opportunity to grow into far better rewards. Everyone should have the right to that opportunity.

So for me, the real question is once the mismatches settle down, are there still going to be enough mismatches in lower tiers to warrant locking brackets, or would the mismatches only start once you climbed really far? Because the latter choice should be the natural challenge progression of war seasons imo
at the same time the way it'll be soon will be the same scenario you just spoke of... alliances stuck in a spot with no hope of climbing up past a certain level because they can't get the the rewards to grow strong enough to drop the alliances above them because the alliances above them are all receiving better rewards... so yeah... the tier bracket would be somewhat difficult to set up... but not impossible... and would make it way better for everyone and not just for the ridiculously strong alliances... but "fair" won't benefit the strong alliances that only stay high on the chain because the ones below them aren't even close in power...

Everyone in the higher tiers started low and grew stronger without this. Why would there be no hope of growing stronger for low alliances now? Yes, you won't have the benefit of the nonsense we had the last few seasons, but neither did any of the higher prestige groups.

Skitard · July 2020

LeNoirFaineant said:

Skitard said:

Ebony_Naw said:

Skitard said:
Guess it's pointless to argue with them @GroundedWisdom... they don't agree with a bracketing reward system because they paid for all the upgrades they could get to increase their skills... only to find that skill wasn't included in the bundle... so they are all going to disagree with everything we say... since we didn't drop hundreds/thousands of dollars into the game, then we don't deserve to be rewarded for being able to win fights... but since they did they deserve tons of 5 and 6 star shards even if they lose every war...

For those of you who do agree with a bracketing system... kudos to you...

for those who don't... don't worry... kabam cares about you enough to reward you for your lack of skill...

The bracketing system has one major advantage, in that you would never have to face an alliance that ridiculously outmatched you. Certainly every individual war would be more fun. One question I have is where do you put the brackets? The issue with parsing continuous variables into discrete categories is where do you draw the line? I think we would all agree that there is a big gap between a 5k and 9k alliance, but what about a 5k and 7k ally? 7k and 8k? 8.5k and 9k? 9k and 9.1k? Where are we putting these brackets and why there? No matter where Kabam would draw the line, people would get shafted.

But even then, let's say Kabam were to find that perfect sweet spot to separate tiers, there is yet another issue, which is perhaps even more flawed in my opinion than the initial one I brought up. Namely, your league is stagnant for the entire season. Sure, you're fighting for rewards, but you have no opportunity to grow into far better rewards. Everyone should have the right to that opportunity.

So for me, the real question is once the mismatches settle down, are there still going to be enough mismatches in lower tiers to warrant locking brackets, or would the mismatches only start once you climbed really far? Because the latter choice should be the natural challenge progression of war seasons imo
at the same time the way it'll be soon will be the same scenario you just spoke of... alliances stuck in a spot with no hope of climbing up past a certain level because they can't get the the rewards to grow strong enough to drop the alliances above them because the alliances above them are all receiving better rewards... so yeah... the tier bracket would be somewhat difficult to set up... but not impossible... and would make it way better for everyone and not just for the ridiculously strong alliances... but "fair" won't benefit the strong alliances that only stay high on the chain because the ones below them aren't even close in power...
Everyone in the higher tiers started low and grew stronger without this. Why would there be no hope of growing stronger for low alliances now? Yes, you won't have the benefit of the nonsense we had the last few seasons, but neither did any of the higher prestige groups.

Never said that they can't grow stronger... i said that they won't ever be able to catch up...

xNig · July 2020

Skitard said:

LeNoirFaineant said:

Skitard said:

Ebony_Naw said:

Skitard said:
Guess it's pointless to argue with them @GroundedWisdom... they don't agree with a bracketing reward system because they paid for all the upgrades they could get to increase their skills... only to find that skill wasn't included in the bundle... so they are all going to disagree with everything we say... since we didn't drop hundreds/thousands of dollars into the game, then we don't deserve to be rewarded for being able to win fights... but since they did they deserve tons of 5 and 6 star shards even if they lose every war...

For those of you who do agree with a bracketing system... kudos to you...

for those who don't... don't worry... kabam cares about you enough to reward you for your lack of skill...

The bracketing system has one major advantage, in that you would never have to face an alliance that ridiculously outmatched you. Certainly every individual war would be more fun. One question I have is where do you put the brackets? The issue with parsing continuous variables into discrete categories is where do you draw the line? I think we would all agree that there is a big gap between a 5k and 9k alliance, but what about a 5k and 7k ally? 7k and 8k? 8.5k and 9k? 9k and 9.1k? Where are we putting these brackets and why there? No matter where Kabam would draw the line, people would get shafted.

But even then, let's say Kabam were to find that perfect sweet spot to separate tiers, there is yet another issue, which is perhaps even more flawed in my opinion than the initial one I brought up. Namely, your league is stagnant for the entire season. Sure, you're fighting for rewards, but you have no opportunity to grow into far better rewards. Everyone should have the right to that opportunity.

So for me, the real question is once the mismatches settle down, are there still going to be enough mismatches in lower tiers to warrant locking brackets, or would the mismatches only start once you climbed really far? Because the latter choice should be the natural challenge progression of war seasons imo
at the same time the way it'll be soon will be the same scenario you just spoke of... alliances stuck in a spot with no hope of climbing up past a certain level because they can't get the the rewards to grow strong enough to drop the alliances above them because the alliances above them are all receiving better rewards... so yeah... the tier bracket would be somewhat difficult to set up... but not impossible... and would make it way better for everyone and not just for the ridiculously strong alliances... but "fair" won't benefit the strong alliances that only stay high on the chain because the ones below them aren't even close in power...
Everyone in the higher tiers started low and grew stronger without this. Why would there be no hope of growing stronger for low alliances now? Yes, you won't have the benefit of the nonsense we had the last few seasons, but neither did any of the higher prestige groups.
Never said that they can't grow stronger... i said that they won't ever be able to catch up...

If they don’t spend thousands on this game per month, they can forget about catching up.

The only way to “catch up” to top players in the game is to outspend them, which I can guarantee you, is very very very difficult.

Mr_Platypus · July 2020

Skitard said:

LeNoirFaineant said:

Skitard said:

Ebony_Naw said:

Skitard said:
Guess it's pointless to argue with them @GroundedWisdom... they don't agree with a bracketing reward system because they paid for all the upgrades they could get to increase their skills... only to find that skill wasn't included in the bundle... so they are all going to disagree with everything we say... since we didn't drop hundreds/thousands of dollars into the game, then we don't deserve to be rewarded for being able to win fights... but since they did they deserve tons of 5 and 6 star shards even if they lose every war...

For those of you who do agree with a bracketing system... kudos to you...

for those who don't... don't worry... kabam cares about you enough to reward you for your lack of skill...

The bracketing system has one major advantage, in that you would never have to face an alliance that ridiculously outmatched you. Certainly every individual war would be more fun. One question I have is where do you put the brackets? The issue with parsing continuous variables into discrete categories is where do you draw the line? I think we would all agree that there is a big gap between a 5k and 9k alliance, but what about a 5k and 7k ally? 7k and 8k? 8.5k and 9k? 9k and 9.1k? Where are we putting these brackets and why there? No matter where Kabam would draw the line, people would get shafted.

But even then, let's say Kabam were to find that perfect sweet spot to separate tiers, there is yet another issue, which is perhaps even more flawed in my opinion than the initial one I brought up. Namely, your league is stagnant for the entire season. Sure, you're fighting for rewards, but you have no opportunity to grow into far better rewards. Everyone should have the right to that opportunity.

So for me, the real question is once the mismatches settle down, are there still going to be enough mismatches in lower tiers to warrant locking brackets, or would the mismatches only start once you climbed really far? Because the latter choice should be the natural challenge progression of war seasons imo
at the same time the way it'll be soon will be the same scenario you just spoke of... alliances stuck in a spot with no hope of climbing up past a certain level because they can't get the the rewards to grow strong enough to drop the alliances above them because the alliances above them are all receiving better rewards... so yeah... the tier bracket would be somewhat difficult to set up... but not impossible... and would make it way better for everyone and not just for the ridiculously strong alliances... but "fair" won't benefit the strong alliances that only stay high on the chain because the ones below them aren't even close in power...
Everyone in the higher tiers started low and grew stronger without this. Why would there be no hope of growing stronger for low alliances now? Yes, you won't have the benefit of the nonsense we had the last few seasons, but neither did any of the higher prestige groups.
Never said that they can't grow stronger... i said that they won't ever be able to catch up...

I couldn’t even catch up to players in the top alliances and I’m sat on 20+ 6*s and 15 r5s/r2s so you can forget about catching up to the top.

MrTicTac19992008 · July 2020

War 1: Came up against a stronger alliance, Their Prestige was 1300 more, rated 10m more, We lost by 4000 points. War rating was 1070, went down to 1005.

War 2: Came up against a much weaker alliance: Our Prestige was 2300 more, we were rated 10m more. We won by 100,000 points excludes 50k bonus victory points. War rating back up to 1070.

This new matchmaking system is much fairer. At least now we will know how good we actually are. If we win 50% of our wars, I would guess we will finish just in Gold 1 but will be interesting to see if we place higher or lower than we would have under the old system.

Seraphion · July 2020

Ya_Boi_28 said:
If I'm being honest here, the old system was really messed up and I just realized something that proved it.

My old ally was 10m or less iirc. I was an average player in the ally and I was placing maxed 4-Stars on defense and attacking with Maxed 4-Stars and 1 r3.
That may not seem like a big deal and it isn't. What is a big deal is that we made it to Tier 8 by going on a win streak. The streak kinda got into my head and I thought that we could make Gold 2 or maybe even Gold 1!
That should not be possible.

For anyone who thinks that should be possible, let me introduce you to my current ally. We range from tier 11 to tier 9. For us, Tier 11 wars are easy. Tier 10 wars are straightforward, but harder. We've never won a Tier 9 war.
We also place with close to max diversity and have an alliance prestige of about 7k. We have players in our ally with profiles with all r5s.

For everyone saying that the old system was better or that the new system is bad, consider the example I have just given. Which ally deserves the higher rewards?

everyone with a brain sees that the new one is better. But they only see 1 or 2 wars and complain about how unfair it is. They dont see all the inflated rewards they got over the seasons.

Its hard to see that you are actuly not that good and got protected by your low prestige for "easy" matchups.

If you spend a bit of time in this post I think you should at least understand why the change had to happen.

Some ppl just want to complain (or troll like G.W.) tho. Cant helps this guys

aminesia · July 2020

Matchmaking Discussion [Merged Threads]

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