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Throne Breaker Title Discussion [Merged Threads]

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Comments

  • EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,981 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Etjama said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Doctorwho13 said:

    Thankfully. No horse in this race. So far away from T5cc that by the time I finally get one this will be moot. I can see why people who are close to the precipice are upset though. It’s like telling them they’re too short to ride the roller coaster even though they’re 18

    Unfortunately, being 18 doesn't satiate the safety concerns of someone who is too small to ride safely on a piece of equipment that is engineered for the safety of a certain size.
    So in other words, "Being 18 doesn't mean it's safe for you." There's no reason to talk the way you're talking.

    And the illustration may be flawed, but don't pretend you don't know what he meant. A better example may be that you're told you're too short for a ride that has no height limit.

    It's a pretty similar situation seeing as lots of people should be able to get Throne Breaker, but woopdee doo, you can't get the title because of something you can't help (your 6* or T5CC crystal luck).
    There's absolutely a reason to talk the way I'm talking. I'm displaying a point that there are reasons for things that seem unfair to people who are excluded from something. No matter where you draw that line in the sand, someone is going to think it's unfair because that leaves them out. I consider myself to be fairly respectful, but I'm also not going to ignore the various factors that go into these decisions. It's not a personal "slap in the face". It's a factor that is necessary to separate levels of progress. The same points were made with Act 6, and I made my own the same then. There's a degree of entitlement that comes along with people getting through content as quickly and easily as possible, and it bastardizes the concept of growing and evolving Rosters and Accounts. Which, contrary to popular belief, involves more than just beating Story.
    "There's no reason to talk the way you're talking" as in, you're making things sound way more complicated then they need to be. Just talk like a normal person.

    And sure, someone's always going to be left out, but with content based titles, people are left out because they can't complete the content.

    But Kabam all of a sudden decided it would be a good idea to exclude the players that are actually working through content in the game. It's pure BS.

    The worst player in the world can unit themselves into a R3 after completing Act 6 while the most skilled can get shafted by T5CC and 6*s when they've explored all of Act 6. How does that make sense to you?
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Etjama said:

    Worknprogress said:

    DNA3000 said:

    CoatHang3r said:

    Kabam Miike said:

    Etjama said:

    Kabam Miike said:

    Kappa2g said:

    I'm pretty sure you guys have the statistics, but how many players actually had a R3 6 star when they completed their first run of 6.4?
    The two milestone requirements simply do not match up or have any close relationship between them.

    They are meant to be separate. They are 2 fold here. We could have just made it get 1x Rank 3, but then somewhere down the line, people will get Rank 3s before they complete Act 6, and that doesn't hit both milestones.
    Honestly, if you guys want people to 100% Abyss before getting this title, do it. It just makes way more sense than involving RNG into titles.
    100% Abyss is still lower than we're aiming for, honestly. This title is aimed at people that probably already have teams of Rank 3 6-Stars, but we want to make it more accessible. Again, this was originally going to be for somewhere in the next Act, which would have been aimed at players with multiple Rank 3 Champions.
    So what I am I hearing is that this was planned to roll out in book 2 as part of long term plans and isn’t something you can put off. Being that you pushed back book 2 due to feedback you now need to get this into the game before upcoming events so future plans are not also disrupted.

    The progression requirements were meant to be much more restrictive but since the content to meet those requirements has been delayed you need to at least put in something similar?
    I suspect it might be less an issue of delay, and more an issue of structure. Act 6 and Book 2 were originally envisioned as traditional end game content in my opinion. They were designed under the idea that if most players can't do it, too bad. But as the philosophy has changed to be more like everyone should *eventually* be able to do it, and the difficulty and rewards should be more of a graceful step up from Uncollected to Cav to beyond within that content, the title made less sense to embed within Book 2, because Book 2 would not place as high of a progressional burden.

    At the risk of oversimplifying, I think Thronebreaker is intended to be an end game title (today, before future titles supplant it), but completing Act 6 and even Book 2 is no longer seen as only an end gamer's activity. So instead Kabam wanted to shift from a content-clearing title like Uncollected or Cav to something else that is more correlated with end game accomplishments, and rank 3 rank ups was the obvious next choice. But while content-clearing titles are pretty binary, either you did them or you didn't, rank ups are more hazy because different people rank up at different paces. Some players rank up quickly, some want to rank up more deliberately, and of course things like spending affect how much rank 3 resources a player might have independent of progress. So Kabam decided to ease off of "multiple rank 3s" as being the marker of an end game player for the purposes of the title, and require just one to make sure that the requirement wasn't so high that it cut off too many end game players from the title.
    Pretty much how I feel. With the severe reduction in story content difficulty, there's not really too many other ways they can segment off sections of the playerbase besides also including a measure of roster strength/size.

    I understand people not liking it but with the new direction in content design it's not surprising they also revisited title requirements
    So explain to me how someone who has barely completed Act 6 belongs in that group while someone who has explored everything doesn't.
    The likelihood of someone that has explored "everything" having zero R3 options is basically slim to none. Is it possible and are there probably a small number of people out there in that situation? Absolutely. It's not remotely going to be the norm or even slightly common
    I think there are likely far more players with multiple rank 3s that haven't fully explored either Act 6 or the Abyss, than there are players that have fully explored both and have zero rank 3 candidates.
    Absolutely
  • LilMaddogHTLilMaddogHT Posts: 1,165 ★★★★
    @Kabam Miike I like this change and appreciate the extra tier in the progression levels. Could the Kabam team also consider making such future announcements/changes something everyone could work towards? For example, I've 100% everything and am going to qualify for Throne Breaker. I will gladly going to enjoy the new unexpected reward changes but it's always nice to works towards something, make a goal and achieve it. It would be nice that the next progression level, I assume there will be one, gets announced well in advance and be something that NO players have actually done/achieved yet so we can plan and work towards it.

    For example, maybe the next progression title is 'Smasher of Everything' and you need to (1) 100% Act 1 - 6, (2) 100% Abyss, (3) have 5 R3 6*, and (4) have completion runs of Act 7.1 & 7.2 done to achieve. Would be nice to know beforehand so we can work towards it and plan accordingly.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    edited September 2020
    Etjama said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Etjama said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Doctorwho13 said:

    Thankfully. No horse in this race. So far away from T5cc that by the time I finally get one this will be moot. I can see why people who are close to the precipice are upset though. It’s like telling them they’re too short to ride the roller coaster even though they’re 18

    Unfortunately, being 18 doesn't satiate the safety concerns of someone who is too small to ride safely on a piece of equipment that is engineered for the safety of a certain size.
    So in other words, "Being 18 doesn't mean it's safe for you." There's no reason to talk the way you're talking.

    And the illustration may be flawed, but don't pretend you don't know what he meant. A better example may be that you're told you're too short for a ride that has no height limit.

    It's a pretty similar situation seeing as lots of people should be able to get Throne Breaker, but woopdee doo, you can't get the title because of something you can't help (your 6* or T5CC crystal luck).
    There's absolutely a reason to talk the way I'm talking. I'm displaying a point that there are reasons for things that seem unfair to people who are excluded from something. No matter where you draw that line in the sand, someone is going to think it's unfair because that leaves them out. I consider myself to be fairly respectful, but I'm also not going to ignore the various factors that go into these decisions. It's not a personal "slap in the face". It's a factor that is necessary to separate levels of progress. The same points were made with Act 6, and I made my own the same then. There's a degree of entitlement that comes along with people getting through content as quickly and easily as possible, and it bastardizes the concept of growing and evolving Rosters and Accounts. Which, contrary to popular belief, involves more than just beating Story.
    "There's no reason to talk the way you're talking" as in, you're making things sound way more complicated then they need to be. Just talk like a normal person.

    And sure, someone's always going to be left out, but with content based titles, people are left out because they can't complete the content.

    But Kabam all of a sudden decided it would be a good idea to exclude the players that are actually working through content in the game. It's pure BS.

    The worst player in the world can unit themselves into a R3 after completing Act 6 while the most skilled can get shafted by T5CC and 6*s when they've explored all of Act 6. How does that make sense to you?
    There is a content requirement tied into it. Act 6 Completion. There is also a Roster requirement. R3 6*. If people have 100% Act 6 and they're not close to an R3, there's either something gravely wrong with the Rewards structure, something wrong with the ease of content, or a selection factor. Seeing as how the content was just made easier, we can rule out the second. I highly doubt the Rewards are that far off because they've been made more available, so that leaves selection. People can either choose to wait for the "God Tiers", complaining all other options suck, or they can Rank what they have and make the best of it in order to advance, like many people do all the time. Either case won't matter much because it's not as if Act 7, Cavalier, or Legendary are only restricted to Throne Breakers. So they will get more Resources if they choose to wait. No. I don't think people should automatically get it if they've finished Act 6 and have no R3s because at that point, it's not unreasonable to expect. Especially when Act 6 is easier now. That doesn't leave much of a hump to get over at all. Just like the release of Act 6, I don't agree that progress gates should be attainable to the majority they affect as soon as they're released.
  • StevieManWonderStevieManWonder Posts: 5,017 ★★★★★
    Obligatory bumping of my own interest: Miike, any thoughts on changing the 14 day calendar to a 7 day calendar?
  • Thicco_ModeThicco_Mode Posts: 8,852 ★★★★★
    Spicyslicer said:

    Kabam Miike said:

    Etjama said:

    Kabam Miike said:

    Kappa2g said:

    I'm pretty sure you guys have the statistics, but how many players actually had a R3 6 star when they completed their first run of 6.4?
    The two milestone requirements simply do not match up or have any close relationship between them.

    They are meant to be separate. They are 2 fold here. We could have just made it get 1x Rank 3, but then somewhere down the line, people will get Rank 3s before they complete Act 6, and that doesn't hit both milestones.
    Honestly, if you guys want people to 100% Abyss before getting this title, do it. It just makes way more sense than involving RNG into titles.
    100% Abyss is still lower than we're aiming for, honestly. This title is aimed at people that probably already have teams of Rank 3 6-Stars, but we want to make it more accessible. Again, this was originally going to be for somewhere in the next Act, which would have been aimed at players with multiple Rank 3 Champions.
    Can you give us insight into the calendar, and crystal changes. I can r3 a champ. Not sure if I want to. I will do it if the rewards are great.!
    If it’s meh I’ll wait.
    yeah for now, the benefits don't seem hugely gamebreaking, so I think it's ok to hold off for now.

    also, why introduce the new title now even though 6.4 has been out for a while? I would have thought the new title would be for 7.1 or something
  • JadedJaded Posts: 5,476 ★★★★★
    Thicco_Mode said:

    Spicyslicer said:

    Kabam Miike said:

    Etjama said:

    Kabam Miike said:

    Kappa2g said:

    I'm pretty sure you guys have the statistics, but how many players actually had a R3 6 star when they completed their first run of 6.4?
    The two milestone requirements simply do not match up or have any close relationship between them.

    They are meant to be separate. They are 2 fold here. We could have just made it get 1x Rank 3, but then somewhere down the line, people will get Rank 3s before they complete Act 6, and that doesn't hit both milestones.
    Honestly, if you guys want people to 100% Abyss before getting this title, do it. It just makes way more sense than involving RNG into titles.
    100% Abyss is still lower than we're aiming for, honestly. This title is aimed at people that probably already have teams of Rank 3 6-Stars, but we want to make it more accessible. Again, this was originally going to be for somewhere in the next Act, which would have been aimed at players with multiple Rank 3 Champions.
    Can you give us insight into the calendar, and crystal changes. I can r3 a champ. Not sure if I want to. I will do it if the rewards are great.!
    If it’s meh I’ll wait.
    yeah for now, the benefits don't seem hugely gamebreaking, so I think it's ok to hold off for now.

    also, why introduce the new title now even though 6.4 has been out for a while? I would have thought the new title would be for 7.1 or something
    Miike talked about how it was going to be released later with book 2 content.
  • Peteyaces_72Peteyaces_72 Posts: 29 ★
    I dislike it simply because of the r3 requirement. I have had two cosmic t5cc since Abyss was released. I haven’t gotten any other t5cc’s yet. I have multiple 6* champs whom I would instantly take to r3 (domino, magneto, fury, ghost, wasp, aegon, etc) but I haven’t been lucky at all with my 6* cosmic pulls. I don’t want to rank up an unduped Black Bolt, gamora or annihilus just to rank up a cosmic champ. I’d rather wait till I can get Captain Marvel Movie or Corvus (or even a duped black bolt or gamora).
    The r3 requirement is now pushing me towards ranking up a champ to r3 that I wouldn’t be using
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    This title was designed for people way ahead in progression but decided to make it more accessable, that was a good thing you are mad at. Would you have liked it if it was WAY harder to get?
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,657 Guardian
    KDSuperFlash10 said:

    Kabam Miike said:

    To be really clear here (and let the dislikes pour in), this is meant to be a differentiating factor between players in the Cavalier progression level, and those that are far advanced from there.

    As you guys are well aware, there is a huge breadth of players that have hit Cavalier status, from those that have beaten Act 6 Chapter 1 just once, to those that have explored Abyss of Legends, and take on the Grandmaster and Champion bosses daily just for fun.

    It becomes extremely difficult for us to make content that targets everybody in that group when one end is so far ahead of the other. As we moved away from making Act content our measuring stick for Summoner Roster and Skill Progression, we had to move to other measurements. Having 1x Rank 3 6-Star is quite low on the scale of differentiation since many of these Summoners have quite a lot more.

    If you haven't hit that point yet, that's okay. There's still a lot for you to benefit from as a Cavalier, and those benefits will help you as you progress and grow towards the next level.

    Why did you have to add the "1x Rank 3 6-Star" in though? That is a VERY poor move by Kabam as only the top 3% of players have r3 6 stars
    If the top 3% of players have rank 3s, then honestly the requirement is too low. The highest progression tier in the game shouldn't have three percent of all players leaping over it on day one.
  • Steel_22Steel_22 Posts: 38 ★
    I like the addition of “Throne Breaker” to the story progression titles, but “Breaker of Thrones” for act 6 exploration imo is too similar to throne breaker. Maybe could it be something like “Destroyer of Thrones” instead?
  • TamamortTamamort Posts: 59 ★
    I’ve ran through act 6 and I have an r3. No title. I’m assuming you have to explore it?
  • ChriissRChriissR Posts: 650 ★★★★
    To be honest, people are lucky it's only ONE run of 6.4 and one champ rank up to R3. It should be 100% Act 6 and a R3.

    Big difference between someone who 100% everything in game to someone who did a pass through 6.4.
  • Jedi_HawkeJedi_Hawke Posts: 955 ★★★
    Well look at the bright side. A title is one of the most meaningless things in the game. Its cool to have, but you can’t rank up a champ with a title. You don’t get any extra shards for having a title. You can’t but anything in the store with a title. So.......let the whales have it
  • WerewrymWerewrym Posts: 2,830 ★★★★★
    dot_ditto said:

    H3t3r said:

    I dont understand the need of the r3 6* requirement.

    It's an attempt to replace the Gating mechanism ... *shrug*

    These kinds of limits are not good, and when they finally admitted the 6* gates were bad .. they should have realized this isn't good idea either ..

    oh well.
    This is completely different from 6* gates. The goal here is to split those who have obtained the cavalier title. They want that split to be a very high cutoff. R3 champs are probably only in the rosters of the top 1-2% of players which is what they want. It is nearly impossible to design content for cavalier players because the disparity between new Cavaliers and end game cavaliers is so large. This type of progression split is absolutely needed for health of the game.
  • Crimson8399Crimson8399 Posts: 749 ★★★
    Well I guess if I waste my t5cc on ranking a 6 star it will keep my 5* champs relevant longer.
  • Pratham02Pratham02 Posts: 281 ★★
    I'll complete 6.4 soon, but I'm no where eve close to a r3.
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