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Champion Spotlight - Daredevil (Hell's Kitchen)

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Comments

  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 184 ★★
    edited January 5


    I get what you’re saying - but his abilities make him gritty. Lately I have:

    Solo’d LOL Rulk
    Solo’d AQ invisible woman mini

    He’s getting more and more useful. He is VERY skill based.

    What’s yours then, is it a 5* or 6*, duped or not? Sig level seems to make a big difference as does filling out the team with his synergies.

    Appreciate that effort is required and not every champ is easy to play, and nor should they be. But, it’s a balance of effort vs reward. And there are other champs which do what DDHK does with less, as I mentioned. That’s why DDHK would benefit from tweaking, to make that effort more in track with the output in utility or damage, to me at least.

    Losing faith though and DDHK is looking like he’s going to sit on the bench for a long time.

  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 1,405 ★★★★
    Chobbly said:


    I get what you’re saying - but his abilities make him gritty. Lately I have:

    Solo’d LOL Rulk
    Solo’d AQ invisible woman mini

    He’s getting more and more useful. He is VERY skill based.

    What’s yours then, is it a 5* or 6*, duped or not? Sig level seems to make a big difference as does filling out the team with his synergies.

    Appreciate that effort is required and not every champ is easy to play, and nor should they be. But, it’s a balance of effort vs reward. And there are other champs which do what DDHK does with less, as I mentioned. That’s why DDHK would benefit from tweaking, to make that effort more in track with the output in utility or damage, to me at least.

    Losing faith though and DDHK is looking like he’s going to sit on the bench for a long time.

    6* lvl 89. He can do a lot but I need the sigs up. Still walking through AQ tho
  • ChovnerChovner Posts: 446 ★★★
    I pulled him TWICE from the new 6* Featured and then unlocked Double Edge and Liquid Courage... now I have a champ that's useful for maybe 2 fights in anything past Act 6......


    Yay..... :(
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 184 ★★
    edited January 14
    Still not seen any responses about the buff and if anything can be done. Bit disappointing to be fair, especially as thanks to Variant 4 exploration I’ve now got a rank 4 to 5 skill gem ready to go, and my NF is already rank 5 and I could do with something that has some additional or different utility.

    The best rotation I’ve found (which I can’t take credit for) is to go for SP3, then try and get at least one or maybe two SP2s in before Righteous Wrath ends. Squeezing in the first hit from a Heavy before launching the SP2 seems to help a little. The combined benefit doesn’t normally last long enough normally for anything beyond a combo or two though so only has limited benefit.

    I wonder if one option to fix his overall damage would be to increase the durations on the Cruelty and Fury buffs to support better stacking, perhaps 5 seconds on the Cruelty and 10 on the Fury.

    The Regen issue is still bonkers. There’s not many Regen champs in the Skill class. I can’t see why DDHK having better Regen would upset game balance and IIRC DDHK’s healing trance was even mentioned in the Netflix show.
  • NumerousMagooNumerousMagoo Posts: 13
    ?

    I have no problem with his own self inflicted debuffs having a reduced willpower regen rate. Heck, exempt it completely. That makes total sense.

    Fix the willpower regen rate for everything else.
    Especially Liquid Courage and Double Edge mastery debuffs.
    Totally unusable with suicides.

    Currently he is being unfairly disadvantaged over any other non-robot / non-shrugging champ in game.

    This is true, and has been beaten to death. I love his kit but this is unfair like you stated.
    Indeed. And now they’ve done the same thing to King Pin’s regen rate.
    Thankfully he can shrug suicides off, especially with Hood Synergy, but this is a worrying precedent for future champion buffs.
    They should not be messing with such a widely used set of masteries.

    The DDHK buff was a well disguised nerf If you are a suicides user. Period.
  • TerraTerra Posts: 5,269 ★★★★★


    You made a Blunder there... The Rage Debuff is Counted toward the Void Debuff..
    And not even Shrugging off.. instead stacking!!
    I am Losing Health..!! Try Duel Void.
    Q


    DDHK's Rage debuff is still a debuff. Void makes you take damage for any and all debuffs on you, not only debuffs from Void himself
  • slackerslacker Posts: 726 ★★★
    Chobbly said:

    Looking at the Kingpin buff, it is interesting how better he seems to be after his buff than DDHK was. Whilst not every champion after their buff can be top of their class, Kingpin’s buff seems to have put him in a much better place than DDHK with considerable damage output and utility. Being able to deal with some of the effects of Suicides will be good for those players which use them, I guess.

    Yeah, i feel KP's fury stackable and more potency is the thing that DDHK is need, also a synergy helps his putify'll do a thing or 2.
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 2,185 ★★★★

    ?

    I have no problem with his own self inflicted debuffs having a reduced willpower regen rate. Heck, exempt it completely. That makes total sense.

    Fix the willpower regen rate for everything else.
    Especially Liquid Courage and Double Edge mastery debuffs.
    Totally unusable with suicides.

    Currently he is being unfairly disadvantaged over any other non-robot / non-shrugging champ in game.

    This is true, and has been beaten to death. I love his kit but this is unfair like you stated.
    Indeed. And now they’ve done the same thing to King Pin’s regen rate.
    Thankfully he can shrug suicides off, especially with Hood Synergy, but this is a worrying precedent for future champion buffs.
    They should not be messing with such a widely used set of masteries.

    The DDHK buff was a well disguised nerf If you are a suicides user. Period.
    I don’t think everyone needs suicides. That’s like saying , they didn’t make a champ bleed or posion immune so they are trying to nerf suicides .

    You could always run half suicides and drop the posion.
  • NumerousMagooNumerousMagoo Posts: 13
    Texas_11 said:

    ?

    I have no problem with his own self inflicted debuffs having a reduced willpower regen rate. Heck, exempt it completely. That makes total sense.

    Fix the willpower regen rate for everything else.
    Especially Liquid Courage and Double Edge mastery debuffs.
    Totally unusable with suicides.

    Currently he is being unfairly disadvantaged over any other non-robot / non-shrugging champ in game.

    This is true, and has been beaten to death. I love his kit but this is unfair like you stated.
    Indeed. And now they’ve done the same thing to King Pin’s regen rate.
    Thankfully he can shrug suicides off, especially with Hood Synergy, but this is a worrying precedent for future champion buffs.
    They should not be messing with such a widely used set of masteries.

    The DDHK buff was a well disguised nerf If you are a suicides user. Period.
    I don’t think everyone needs suicides. That’s like saying , they didn’t make a champ bleed or posion immune so they are trying to nerf suicides .

    You could always run half suicides and drop the posion.
    Never said everyone needs suicides, just shouldn’t have one single champ disadvantaged way more by them, which the DDHK buff absolutely does.

    I just run them permanently for their usefulness in Arena grinding.
    Only turned them off for some Act 6 & 7 and majority of Abyss fights.

    IMO, with the investment/sacrifice in recoil it’s best going full suicides. Never had a problem with the Poison one until this DDHK “buff”.
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 184 ★★
    So, I had a bit of an epiphany yesterday. If you halve the duration of the Rage Debuffs, the Regeneration Rate can be doubled!

    This wouldn't affect the healing that DDHK would receive from Rage either way, but what it would do is reduce the issue of him being much more vulnerable to DoT effects (including Suicide Masteries) than any other champ.

    These would be number changes only. I’ve posted a full breakdown in the Suggestions forum but what do you all think about the general idea? I know there’s more that we may want to tweak with the kit but this may be the best we can hope for.

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/251029/daredevil-netflix-fix-just-numbers/p1?new=1
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 184 ★★

    What's even worse is that Kingpin's regen rate is actually higher than Daredevil's.

    It is, and the other thing with Kingpin aside from the higher Regen is that he has a mechanism to try and remove damaging debuffs. That’s why I’m of the opinion that scaling back Rage and proportionally increasing the Regen Rate will keep to Kabam’s guidelines but still benefit DDHK in the the long run.

    As far as damage is concerned, I wonder if perhaps an ability to refresh Fury buffs would be more useful that tweaking Buff durations or damage.
  • MegaSkater67MegaSkater67 Posts: 1,317 ★★★
    Chobbly said:

    So, I had a bit of an epiphany yesterday. If you halve the duration of the Rage Debuffs, the Regeneration Rate can be doubled!

    This wouldn't affect the healing that DDHK would receive from Rage either way, but what it would do is reduce the issue of him being much more vulnerable to DoT effects (including Suicide Masteries) than any other champ.

    These would be number changes only. I’ve posted a full breakdown in the Suggestions forum but what do you all think about the general idea? I know there’s more that we may want to tweak with the kit but this may be the best we can hope for.

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/251029/daredevil-netflix-fix-just-numbers/p1?new=1

    I can see where you’re coming from but I don’t like that idea personally. I actually use him all the time, he’s one of my favourite champs now, but by halving the rage duration you lose out on the damage bonus it gives you. You can stack them as well with its current duration which would be significantly harder/not possible if it was halved. His regen rate isn’t really a big issue in my opinion, I know it makes him unusable with suicides which some people don’t like for obvious reasons, but it makes sense to have it lowered with his kit. You can keep rage up for the entire fight which would be a bit too powerful with willpower.
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 184 ★★
    edited March 30


    I actually use him all the time, he’s one of my favourite champs now, but by halving the rage duration you lose out on the damage bonus it gives you. You can stack them as well with its current duration which would be significantly harder/not possible if it was halved. His regen rate isn’t really a big issue in my opinion, I know it makes him unusable with suicides which some people don’t like for obvious reasons, but it makes sense to have it lowered with his kit. You can keep rage up for the entire fight which would be a bit too powerful with willpower.

    While it's good that you've found uses for him, I would counter that its an issue for many players who is use suicides.I don't, but I knows many do. There been many suggestions on this and other threads - some sit better than others but many would be workable for the majority, if not a first choice.

    The Regen Rate drop along with the Rage implementation causes more issues than opportunities it creates for the kit, in my opinion. It's an interesting design idea but something else is needed. If Willpower excluded self inflicted Debuffs, that might allow the Regen Rate to be put back to 100. Again, certainly not perfect by any means but an option.

    Either way, I'm just throwing ideas out there but it's taking away from the recent issue. I hope you get a response, FluffyPigMonster.
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 184 ★★
    Dex_Rebirth, good luck with your buff idea for Daredevil (Classic). If I get chance to have a read through I will.

    @FluffyPigMonster, did you get a response to your query over Aspect of Nightmares? I had a quick scan through the release notes to see if there was any mention of it, may have missed it but couldn't see anything.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 1,405 ★★★★
    Chobbly said:

    Dex_Rebirth, good luck with your buff idea for Daredevil (Classic). If I get chance to have a read through I will.

    @FluffyPigMonster, did you get a response to your query over Aspect of Nightmares? I had a quick scan through the release notes to see if there was any mention of it, may have missed it but couldn't see anything.

    No. There is no response. Unfortunately this will be one of those things that goes to the land of stuff nobody talks about anymore @Chobbly
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 184 ★★
    For anyone new and wanting some direction on how to get the best out of DDHK, MegaSkater67 has a really informative post that he's put onto other threads in the General Discussion area - I suggest you go and have a look at them. It's a write up focusing largely on the benefits of running DDHK, who for the most part is a fun champion.

    The biggest drawback is the Regen Rate penalty which affects Willpower significantly. This hinders his usability for those with suicides, DoT effects and certain game nodes like Aspect of Nightmares which FluffyPigMonster found. There are lots of ways that this could be fixed but no news as yet.

    I hope DDHK doesn't get forgotten - but suspect he might. If that does happen he'll remain a quirky, slightly niche character with some nice utility but notable drawbacks.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 1,405 ★★★★
    Chobbly said:

    For anyone new and wanting some direction on how to get the best out of DDHK, MegaSkater67 has a really informative post that he's put onto other threads in the General Discussion area - I suggest you go and have a look at them. It's a write up focusing largely on the benefits of running DDHK, who for the most part is a fun champion.

    The biggest drawback is the Regen Rate penalty which affects Willpower significantly. This hinders his usability for those with suicides, DoT effects and certain game nodes like Aspect of Nightmares which FluffyPigMonster found. There are lots of ways that this could be fixed but no news as yet.

    I hope DDHK doesn't get forgotten - but suspect he might. If that does happen he'll remain a quirky, slightly niche character with some nice utility but notable drawbacks.

    I have been using him more and more and have found so many uses for the guy. At max sig he bypasses Degen and like Omega. Destroys Void. Paired with Kingpin he’s a monster.

    When he has debuffs applied on him his damage goes way up. DOT or non DOT. Attack rating.

    The Degen stinks but he is a champ that while he does do 100k crits he just dismantles the opponent.

    I wish the regen thing was addressed.
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 184 ★★
    edited May 18
    He does have utility. Not sure how you can hit 100k criticals - the best I've got with my max rank+sig 5* is in the 20k area. From my experience he needs a minor damage uplift given the rotation needed and the fact it's only activated for a few seconds, but that's not the main issue. It's the Regen.

    There's been so many possibilities discussed, and I'm sure the Devs have their own ideas as they've got access to the codebase and know how the kit has been implemented. What may be easy for us to visualise may cause a nightmare for regression testing.

    We already know that the Regen Rate value is not hard-coded as the rate for DDHK and Kingpin was tweaked after the latter's update, so there should be something there which could be done.

    Time will tell, but hope is dwindling.
  • Dex_RebırthDex_Rebırth Posts: 45
    Chobbly said:

    He does have utility. Not sure how you can hit 100k criticals - the best I've got with my max rank+sig 5* is in the 20k area. From my experience he needs a minor damage uplift given the rotation needed and the fact it's only activated for a few seconds, but that's not the main issue. It's the Regen.

    There's been so many possibilities discussed, and I'm sure the Devs have their own ideas as they've got access to the codebase and know how the kit has been implemented. What may be easy for us to visualise may cause a nightmare for regression testing.

    We already know that the Regen Rate value is not hard-coded as the rate for DDHK and Kingpin was tweaked after the latter's update, so there should be something there which could be done.

    Time will tell, but hope is dwindling.

    as it happened with Hood, if they wanted to fix Daredevil hk they would have done it a long time ago
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 184 ★★
    Here's an idea, a very small and limited change, for Daredevil (Hell's Kitchen)'s issues with his Regeneration Rate penalty.

    The existing line regarding the Regeneration Rate Penalty would be removed, and the following mechanic added instead.

    Daredevil's Rage Debuffs reduce his Regeneration Rate to 40% for their duration. Multiple Rage Debuffs provide no additional penalty.

    Moving the penalty into the Rage Debuff itself improves the situation with Daredevil (Hell's Kitchen) and the use of Suicide Masteries.

    With this change, Daredevil's Regeneration Rate penalty is only applied when Rage is active, and from Kabam's posts Rage is the source of their concern over on-demand healing.

    When Rage isn't active though DDHK benefits from a normal Regeneration Rate, which will help when suffering from DoT effects like starting the fight with SM enabled. When Rage is not active though, he's the same as any other champ - no more, no less.

    Against nodes like Aspect of Nightmares, careful management of Rage would allow DDHK to get around the return of only a portion of the lost health. Just make sure that Rage isn't active when the node triggers.

    With this in mind, giving Daredevil (Hell's Kitchen) a way to purge a Rage Debuff on demand would be useful for balance. This ability could be integrated into the kit to create better synergy between the SP1 and the SP3, given that most rotations revolve around repeated use of just the SP2 at specific combo counts.

    Special Attack 1
    With honed precision and grace, Murdock delivers a flurry of blows, striking with decisive justice.
    100% chance to boost Critical Rating by X for 15 seconds.On the final Hit, Purify one Rage Debuff for a 100% chance to refresh the duration of any Righteous Wrath passive.


    This change would increase the usefulness of Daredevil (Hell's Kitchen) for more players without compromising his common rotations. It would also have a minor overall damage improvement to the kit by allowing the Righteous Wrath Passive to be refreshed. If the final hit trigger is an issue, it could be changed to the first hit with little impact but just is a nice end effect to the SP1 flurry of blows.

    Both of these small tweaks should help improve the use and experience of playing with DDHK after the buff.

    Any thoughts? Or should we just give up hope?
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