They Killed YellowJacket

LibertyPrimeV1 · February 2021

Pulyaman said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

HI_guys said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Batty_Numppo said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

Demonzfyre said:

HI_guys said:

Hera1d_of_Ga1actus said:

SWORD78 said:
His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard
Oh no Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
Its like talking to a wall.

Ah the sweet sweet comeback 😂

GroundedWisdom · February 2021

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

HI_guys said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Batty_Numppo said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

Demonzfyre said:

HI_guys said:

Hera1d_of_Ga1actus said:

SWORD78 said:
His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard
Oh no Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
No. They couldn't have. Any idea what a nightmare it would have been to come up against him with a Champ that relies on Debuffs, if you had no way to affect the Rage? Given his new kit, it would have been annoying as hell.
Ability Accuracy Reduction exists... His Passive Rage was Always Affected By Ability Accuracy.

No. He converted Debuffs pretty consistently before they buffed him. I have the 6*. I've been using him quite a while.

Sarvanga1_ · February 2021

They just copied the mechanic from daredevil and pasted it on kingpin.

GroundedWisdom · February 2021

HI_guys said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

HI_guys said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Batty_Numppo said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

Demonzfyre said:

HI_guys said:

Hera1d_of_Ga1actus said:

SWORD78 said:
His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard
Oh no Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
No. They couldn't have. Any idea what a nightmare it would have been to come up against him with a Champ that relies on Debuffs, if you had no way to affect the Rage? Given his new kit, it would have been annoying as hell.
I swear you're on some other plane of understanding KingPins abilities

Really? Seems to me like people are only hearing what they want to.

LibertyPrimeV1 · February 2021

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

HI_guys said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Batty_Numppo said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

Demonzfyre said:

HI_guys said:

Hera1d_of_Ga1actus said:

SWORD78 said:
His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard
Oh no Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
No. They couldn't have. Any idea what a nightmare it would have been to come up against him with a Champ that relies on Debuffs, if you had no way to affect the Rage? Given his new kit, it would have been annoying as hell.
Ability Accuracy Reduction exists... His Passive Rage was Always Affected By Ability Accuracy.
No. He converted Debuffs pretty consistently before they buffed him. I have the 6*. I've been using him quite a while.

I fought a Kingpin with Apocalypse. He couldn't Shrug Off the Debuffs, why?
Because Apocalypse Reduced The Ability Accuracy.
Again that is a Passive Effect Not a Passive Ability.

KDSuperFlash10 · February 2021

Pulyaman said:

KDSuperFlash10 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
That's about all I'm going to say on the subject because I'm really out of ways to explain it and the horse isn't dead. It's hamburger.
Don't even bother with them, it's like speaking to a wall.
What are you even on about. Read through the thread before throwing out a general statement like this. No one is actually saying Kingpin buff is bad. He is loads better than he was in terms of damage. In terms of utility, it seems like a "nerf" by making is rage a debuff instead of a passive.

It's not a nerf by any means, you can consistently heal throughout the fight to keep his health topped up. How in the world is that a nerf? A passive does nothing, a debuff gets you healing, which is very useful cuz he has low block proficiency, so he can use any sustainability he can get.

The_Sentry06 · February 2021

I don't think that the rage conversion was ever affected by AAR but rather that his shrug-off ability was effectively meaning that no rage would be built?

GroundedWisdom · February 2021

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

HI_guys said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Batty_Numppo said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

Demonzfyre said:

HI_guys said:

Hera1d_of_Ga1actus said:

SWORD78 said:
His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard
Oh no Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
No. They couldn't have. Any idea what a nightmare it would have been to come up against him with a Champ that relies on Debuffs, if you had no way to affect the Rage? Given his new kit, it would have been annoying as hell.
Ability Accuracy Reduction exists... His Passive Rage was Always Affected By Ability Accuracy.
No. He converted Debuffs pretty consistently before they buffed him. I have the 6*. I've been using him quite a while.
I fought a Kingpin with Apocalypse. He couldn't Shrug Off the Debuffs, why?
Because Apocalypse Reduced The Ability Accuracy.
Again that is a Passive Effect Not a Passive Ability.

One Champ that's specifically designed to interact that way.

The_Sentry06 · February 2021

HI_guys said:

KDSuperFlash10 said:

Pulyaman said:

KDSuperFlash10 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
That's about all I'm going to say on the subject because I'm really out of ways to explain it and the horse isn't dead. It's hamburger.
Don't even bother with them, it's like speaking to a wall.
What are you even on about. Read through the thread before throwing out a general statement like this. No one is actually saying Kingpin buff is bad. He is loads better than he was in terms of damage. In terms of utility, it seems like a "nerf" by making is rage a debuff instead of a passive.
It's not a nerf by any means, you can consistently heal throughout the fight to keep his health topped up. How in the world is that a nerf? A passive does nothing, a debuff gets you healing, which is very useful cuz he has low block proficiency, so he can use any sustainability he can get.
Void

Void's only one champion though.

LibertyPrimeV1 · February 2021

GroundedWisdom said:

HI_guys said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

HI_guys said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Batty_Numppo said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

Demonzfyre said:

HI_guys said:

Hera1d_of_Ga1actus said:

SWORD78 said:
His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard
Oh no Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
No. They couldn't have. Any idea what a nightmare it would have been to come up against him with a Champ that relies on Debuffs, if you had no way to affect the Rage? Given his new kit, it would have been annoying as hell.
I swear you're on some other plane of understanding KingPins abilities
Really? Seems to me like people are only hearing what they want to.

Dude it's ok everyone makes mistakes, we're all human, what makes you a fair one is when you own up to your mistakes.
You mixed up Passive Effects with Passive Abilities, no one can blame you because it is very confusing.

KDSuperFlash10 · February 2021

HI_guys said:

KDSuperFlash10 said:

Pulyaman said:

KDSuperFlash10 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
That's about all I'm going to say on the subject because I'm really out of ways to explain it and the horse isn't dead. It's hamburger.
Don't even bother with them, it's like speaking to a wall.
What are you even on about. Read through the thread before throwing out a general statement like this. No one is actually saying Kingpin buff is bad. He is loads better than he was in terms of damage. In terms of utility, it seems like a "nerf" by making is rage a debuff instead of a passive.
It's not a nerf by any means, you can consistently heal throughout the fight to keep his health topped up. How in the world is that a nerf? A passive does nothing, a debuff gets you healing, which is very useful cuz he has low block proficiency, so he can use any sustainability he can get.
Void

Then don't use him against Void 😂

And if I'm not mistaken Kingpin should work very well against Void with the Hood synergy, so idk what you're worried about

LibertyPrimeV1 · February 2021

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

HI_guys said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Batty_Numppo said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

Demonzfyre said:

HI_guys said:

Hera1d_of_Ga1actus said:

SWORD78 said:
His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard
Oh no Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
No. They couldn't have. Any idea what a nightmare it would have been to come up against him with a Champ that relies on Debuffs, if you had no way to affect the Rage? Given his new kit, it would have been annoying as hell.
Ability Accuracy Reduction exists... His Passive Rage was Always Affected By Ability Accuracy.
No. He converted Debuffs pretty consistently before they buffed him. I have the 6*. I've been using him quite a while.
I fought a Kingpin with Apocalypse. He couldn't Shrug Off the Debuffs, why?
Because Apocalypse Reduced The Ability Accuracy.
Again that is a Passive Effect Not a Passive Ability.
One Champ that's specifically designed to interact that way.

My Point is Apocalypse Reduces Ability Accuracy to Stop Purify Effects, Pre Rework Kingpin was Affected by this.

The_Sentry06 · February 2021

HI_guys said:

The_Sentry06 said:

HI_guys said:

KDSuperFlash10 said:

Pulyaman said:

KDSuperFlash10 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
That's about all I'm going to say on the subject because I'm really out of ways to explain it and the horse isn't dead. It's hamburger.
Don't even bother with them, it's like speaking to a wall.
What are you even on about. Read through the thread before throwing out a general statement like this. No one is actually saying Kingpin buff is bad. He is loads better than he was in terms of damage. In terms of utility, it seems like a "nerf" by making is rage a debuff instead of a passive.
It's not a nerf by any means, you can consistently heal throughout the fight to keep his health topped up. How in the world is that a nerf? A passive does nothing, a debuff gets you healing, which is very useful cuz he has low block proficiency, so he can use any sustainability he can get.
Void
Void's only one champion though.
True. KingPins main and dare say "reliable utility " is debuff shrugging. Void is the one champ you never want debuffs against. Not to mention class advantage and touted as "strength" in his spotlight us debuff shrugging. Just seems wierd.

It is weird. But nothing we can do about it now I guess.

LibertyPrimeV1 · February 2021

KDSuperFlash10 said:

HI_guys said:

KDSuperFlash10 said:

Pulyaman said:

KDSuperFlash10 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
That's about all I'm going to say on the subject because I'm really out of ways to explain it and the horse isn't dead. It's hamburger.
Don't even bother with them, it's like speaking to a wall.
What are you even on about. Read through the thread before throwing out a general statement like this. No one is actually saying Kingpin buff is bad. He is loads better than he was in terms of damage. In terms of utility, it seems like a "nerf" by making is rage a debuff instead of a passive.
It's not a nerf by any means, you can consistently heal throughout the fight to keep his health topped up. How in the world is that a nerf? A passive does nothing, a debuff gets you healing, which is very useful cuz he has low block proficiency, so he can use any sustainability he can get.
Void
Then don't use him against Void 😂

And if I'm not mistaken Kingpin should work very well against Void with the Hood synergy, so idk what you're worried about

His Rage Debuffs also activate Void's Intimidating Presence Damage, that was his point.
I agree though it's only one fight and you can use someone else.
But your point about the Hood Synergy makes no difference.

GroundedWisdom · February 2021

HI_guys said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

HI_guys said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Batty_Numppo said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

Demonzfyre said:

HI_guys said:

Hera1d_of_Ga1actus said:

SWORD78 said:
His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard
Oh no Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
No. They couldn't have. Any idea what a nightmare it would have been to come up against him with a Champ that relies on Debuffs, if you had no way to affect the Rage? Given his new kit, it would have been annoying as hell.
Ability Accuracy Reduction exists... His Passive Rage was Always Affected By Ability Accuracy.
No. He converted Debuffs pretty consistently before they buffed him. I have the 6*. I've been using him quite a while.
I fought a Kingpin with Apocalypse. He couldn't Shrug Off the Debuffs, why?
Because Apocalypse Reduced The Ability Accuracy.
Again that is a Passive Effect Not a Passive Ability.
One Champ that's specifically designed to interact that way.
Archangel and Omega red says hello. So does quake

Quake isn't a reasonable option. She goes through anything.

GroundedWisdom · February 2021

I don't know why people are even looking at a newly-updated Champ and comparing them to what they were used for before. Did anyone guarantee he would be good for Void? No. He was changed. That's all that matters. If you're still looking at him being useful for the same thing he was before, you're not even seeing the changes. What difference? I agree with the previous statements. Don't use him for Void.

LibertyPrimeV1 · February 2021

GroundedWisdom said:

HI_guys said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

HI_guys said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Batty_Numppo said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

Demonzfyre said:

HI_guys said:

Hera1d_of_Ga1actus said:

SWORD78 said:
His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard
Oh no Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
No. They couldn't have. Any idea what a nightmare it would have been to come up against him with a Champ that relies on Debuffs, if you had no way to affect the Rage? Given his new kit, it would have been annoying as hell.
Ability Accuracy Reduction exists... His Passive Rage was Always Affected By Ability Accuracy.
No. He converted Debuffs pretty consistently before they buffed him. I have the 6*. I've been using him quite a while.
I fought a Kingpin with Apocalypse. He couldn't Shrug Off the Debuffs, why?
Because Apocalypse Reduced The Ability Accuracy.
Again that is a Passive Effect Not a Passive Ability.
One Champ that's specifically designed to interact that way.
Archangel and Omega red says hello. So does quake
Quake isn't a reasonable option. She goes through anything.

That's Ability Accuracy Reduction!
Your Point was AAR didn't Affect him Pre Rework, but Pre Rework all these Options stopped him.
You using AAR as an point in your argument about why his Passive was changed to a Debuff makes no sense because of this.

Pulyaman · February 2021

KDSuperFlash10 said:

HI_guys said:

KDSuperFlash10 said:

Pulyaman said:

KDSuperFlash10 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
That's about all I'm going to say on the subject because I'm really out of ways to explain it and the horse isn't dead. It's hamburger.
Don't even bother with them, it's like speaking to a wall.
What are you even on about. Read through the thread before throwing out a general statement like this. No one is actually saying Kingpin buff is bad. He is loads better than he was in terms of damage. In terms of utility, it seems like a "nerf" by making is rage a debuff instead of a passive.
It's not a nerf by any means, you can consistently heal throughout the fight to keep his health topped up. How in the world is that a nerf? A passive does nothing, a debuff gets you healing, which is very useful cuz he has low block proficiency, so he can use any sustainability he can get.
Void
Then don't use him against Void 😂

And if I'm not mistaken Kingpin should work very well against Void with the Hood synergy, so idk what you're worried about

I mean people keep saying use someone else against void or use someone else against Apoc. You realize that void is typically placed with long distance relationship node? What is the point of having this champ if I need to bring another champ for one fight in a lane with 6 or more fights?

GroundedWisdom · February 2021

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

HI_guys said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

HI_guys said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Batty_Numppo said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

Demonzfyre said:

HI_guys said:

Hera1d_of_Ga1actus said:

SWORD78 said:
His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard
Oh no Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
No. They couldn't have. Any idea what a nightmare it would have been to come up against him with a Champ that relies on Debuffs, if you had no way to affect the Rage? Given his new kit, it would have been annoying as hell.
Ability Accuracy Reduction exists... His Passive Rage was Always Affected By Ability Accuracy.
No. He converted Debuffs pretty consistently before they buffed him. I have the 6*. I've been using him quite a while.
I fought a Kingpin with Apocalypse. He couldn't Shrug Off the Debuffs, why?
Because Apocalypse Reduced The Ability Accuracy.
Again that is a Passive Effect Not a Passive Ability.
One Champ that's specifically designed to interact that way.
Archangel and Omega red says hello. So does quake
Quake isn't a reasonable option. She goes through anything.
That's Ability Accuracy Reduction!
Your Point was AAR didn't Affect him Pre Rework, but Pre Rework all these Options stopped him.
You using AAR as an point in your argument about why his Passive was changed to a Debuff makes no sense because of this.

This is becoming so bloody convoluted it's ridiculous. I was asked why I thought it was changed. I said it was the AAR and Nullify interactions. I'm not arguing about it anymore. You don't agree with what I said? That's fine. I'm getting out of the rabbit hole.

Pulyaman · February 2021

KDSuperFlash10 said:

Pulyaman said:

KDSuperFlash10 said:

GroundedWisdom said:
That's about all I'm going to say on the subject because I'm really out of ways to explain it and the horse isn't dead. It's hamburger.
Don't even bother with them, it's like speaking to a wall.
What are you even on about. Read through the thread before throwing out a general statement like this. No one is actually saying Kingpin buff is bad. He is loads better than he was in terms of damage. In terms of utility, it seems like a "nerf" by making is rage a debuff instead of a passive.
It's not a nerf by any means, you can consistently heal throughout the fight to keep his health topped up. How in the world is that a nerf? A passive does nothing, a debuff gets you healing, which is very useful cuz he has low block proficiency, so he can use any sustainability he can get.

Its not a direct nerf, that is why I put it in quotes. But even against void, he takes too much damage Kingpin has his regen rate reduced, so even will power will not help you. Kind of like taking OR with suicides against Void, but in that matchup, will power helps you mitigate some damage.

Texas_11 · February 2021

Etjama said:

KDSuperFlash10 said:
I honestly think Yellowjacket has the potential to be a top tier science champ when at max sig. Phenomenal utility and solid damage. @Etjama has explained the depths of YJ's utility and damage at max sig and I'm honestly impressed. Yes, he needs max sig for damage, but his utility is all there unawakened and at low sig.
😢 thank you. I can honestly see him being around the Spider-Gwen, Rhulk, Wasp area.

I think he will be higher . Than that. Capiw, void , red guardian. Of course we are talking max signature.

GroundedWisdom · February 2021

HI_guys said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

HI_guys said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LibertyPrimeV1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

HI_guys said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Batty_Numppo said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

Demonzfyre said:

HI_guys said:

Hera1d_of_Ga1actus said:

SWORD78 said:
His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard
Oh no Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
No. They couldn't have. Any idea what a nightmare it would have been to come up against him with a Champ that relies on Debuffs, if you had no way to affect the Rage? Given his new kit, it would have been annoying as hell.
Ability Accuracy Reduction exists... His Passive Rage was Always Affected By Ability Accuracy.
No. He converted Debuffs pretty consistently before they buffed him. I have the 6*. I've been using him quite a while.
I fought a Kingpin with Apocalypse. He couldn't Shrug Off the Debuffs, why?
Because Apocalypse Reduced The Ability Accuracy.
Again that is a Passive Effect Not a Passive Ability.
One Champ that's specifically designed to interact that way.
Archangel and Omega red says hello. So does quake
Quake isn't a reasonable option. She goes through anything.
That's Ability Accuracy Reduction!
Your Point was AAR didn't Affect him Pre Rework, but Pre Rework all these Options stopped him.
You using AAR as an point in your argument about why his Passive was changed to a Debuff makes no sense because of this.
This is becoming so bloody convoluted it's ridiculous. I was asked why I thought it was changed. I said it was the AAR and Nullify interactions. I'm not arguing about it anymore. You don't agree with what I said? That's fine. I'm getting out of the rabbit hole.
It's not that we disagree with an opinion of yours . You can bloody we'll have an opinion. You're just plain factually wrong when you say he wasn't affected by AAR before or that making rage as debuffs somehow magically makes him easier to fight

Mkay. Sure. You want to know? Ask them yourself. I'm tired of being badgered about the same damn question. Get over it. Move on.

Sarvanga1_ · February 2021

Texas_11 said:

Etjama said:

KDSuperFlash10 said:
I honestly think Yellowjacket has the potential to be a top tier science champ when at max sig. Phenomenal utility and solid damage. @Etjama has explained the depths of YJ's utility and damage at max sig and I'm honestly impressed. Yes, he needs max sig for damage, but his utility is all there unawakened and at low sig.
😢 thank you. I can honestly see him being around the Spider-Gwen, Rhulk, Wasp area.
I think he will be higher . Than that. Capiw, void , red guardian. Of course we are talking max signature.

Not that much.

They Killed YellowJacket

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