“Caution light sensitivity” discussion

Bendy · February 2021

I do agree when entering the game there should be a warning as time goes on kabam makes new champs and designs there will be more champs that look great like psycho man but cant play him or fight him due to the flashing images im glad kabam is aware of this now and posted a caution in game mail and forums but id like to see it when entering also

The_Sentry06 · February 2021

HI_guys said:

Haji_Saab said:
I don't have this condition but I just find flashing lights to be uncomfortable so I will jump onboard this. Allow us to skip L3 animations.
Playing at night last month was not a good experience. And fighting sasquatch at night is worse

I fought him and King Groot at night once. Couldn't sleep that night.

KerayZ · February 2021

IMO too many people are just assuming this only effects epilepsy. Not true. This can create migraines, nausea and seizures. No surprise that Grounded Wisdom is at the forefront of silliness on this forums(hey didn't you quit our game? can you quit again? please? asking for a friend uWu)

I highly doubt that Kabam want their game to give folks migraines, otherwise the dwindling playerbase is just going to to dwindle even further. So as much as we all love to debate Kabam's fav puppet let's just assume Kabam would NOT want their players to experience any of this and will do anything possible to avoid it going forward.

My solution is to put a visual timer on all sp3 animations somewhere on the screen along with a skip button. You still have to wait out the time but can avoid the animations easily. This doesnt even come close to fixing all the lighting issues with someone like Psycho-man. That's something Kabam need to adjust as developers making characters. It will be a solution to all sp3 animations going forward though, including some problematic ones that currently exist.

I firmly believe that there are way more people experiencing little things like headaches then there are people going into seizures. All of it is really bad for the game.

The_Sentry06 · February 2021

It should be a feature/settings definitely not a complete graphics makeover. Sorta like how FPS games have some settings to help optimise your device. Something in line with that is what I'm thinking.

Palanthrax · February 2021

Wow, the ignorance in this thread. From one person. Who's on my ignore list, for a good reason, but keeps getting quoted so I still end up seeing his senseless diatribe.

On topic, I welcome the announcement by Kabam, but I hope they follow it up with action. I've just completed 100% Cav EQ, and Psycho Man's regular animations are most certainly an issue.

It's the "strobe" effect, that's the flashing sequence that can trigger migraines, which I'm particularly partial to. This can be fixed without ruining other people's enjoyment. There's no need for a strobe effect on that floating pyramid thing he has, other effects can be used.

This is nothing new. TV programs announce when scenes contain flash photography, but in-game animations can be designed in a more inclusive way.

I don't think this issue is as "niche" as people may think. Epilepsy may constitute a small percentage of MCOC players, but migraines and eye strain will be affecting a great many more, some without realising it.

Doomsfist79 · February 2021

Seems so strange to have objectives in the game where you need to use a particular champion to complete, and yet using that particular champion can cause health issues for people. I realize this was most likely not the intent when designed, but maybe there should have been more thought applied prior to this going live?

GroundedWisdom · February 2021

Doomsfist79 said:
Seems so strange to have objectives in the game where you need to use a particular champion to complete, and yet using that particular champion can cause health issues for people. I realize this was most likely not the intent when designed, but maybe there should have been more thought applied prior to this going live?

I don't think it's was necessarily on their minds. They're not really physicians. It's something they can try to be aware of after the fact, but in general their focus is on designing new content.

StaphMember · February 2021

The concept of a company modifying access to avoid potentially dangerous visual effects is not new. The Pokémon company pulled a particular strobe heavy video from the air permanently after the first showing because of widespread adverse effects. That was 20 years ago! They took the personal and professional responsibility for the effects and took action to avoid further harm to their fan base. They did not limit themselves to a simple warning and call it a day.

Crcrcrc · February 2021

StaphMember said:
The concept of a company modifying access to avoid potentially dangerous visual effects is not new. The Pokémon company pulled a particular strobe heavy video from the air permanently after the first showing because of widespread adverse effects. That was 20 years ago! They took the personal and professional responsibility for the effects and took action to avoid further harm to their fan base. They did not limit themselves to a simple warning and call it a day.

I can't even counted the number of games I've played that have an epilepsy warning pop up at the beginning and that's it. Games don't need to tone down graphics for this. They just need sufficient warnings to prevent issues. If they had warned that Psycho Man would have epileptic animations, then nobody could complain, because they did what they needed to prevent it. A setting to toggle high-quality animations could help, but I doubt that would happen.

GroundedWisdom · February 2021

The warning is so that people can make their own decisions on whether to proceed or not. It's not just absolving responsibility. There's no guarantee it won't happen again with some other trigger. They can't predict who is sensitive to what. The idea is that people won't actually suffer a seizure in the future if something presents itself in a similar situation if they're aware that it may contain such images and content. It's not just about bypassing culpability. A warning serves to be upfront with people so they can make their own choices about what's best for them.

TheMailmann · February 2021

honestly i’d say my favorite SPs or any basic attacks in the game aren’t even the ones that use flashing lights so i don’t know why the game experience would be limited if it’s not used.

also, out of hundreds of champs, very few champs that fit this criteria so adjusting these and avoiding these effects in the future would not affect your enjoyment in the game. we’ve all played for how many years now before these effects were introduced and the visual effects over the years were still amazing

WeeHobbit89 · February 2021

Its a good thing they have done the message but new users wont know about it

TitoBandito187 · February 2021

Crcrcrc said:

StaphMember said:
The concept of a company modifying access to avoid potentially dangerous visual effects is not new. The Pokémon company pulled a particular strobe heavy video from the air permanently after the first showing because of widespread adverse effects. That was 20 years ago! They took the personal and professional responsibility for the effects and took action to avoid further harm to their fan base. They did not limit themselves to a simple warning and call it a day.
I can't even counted the number of games I've played that have an epilepsy warning pop up at the beginning and that's it. Games don't need to tone down graphics for this. They just need sufficient warnings to prevent issues. If they had warned that Psycho Man would have epileptic animations, then nobody could complain, because they did what they needed to prevent it. A setting to toggle high-quality animations could help, but I doubt that would happen.

That would be the minimal approach. They have yet to implement this. It needs to be a warning on the start of the game every time, not a one off in game email. It's not there yet but should be already. That would at least cover them on the warning.

But a good company would actually take the next step to put in a setting for players to minimize the impact. Then, those that like the flashes can keep them, and those that don't (or medically can't) can disable them.

Dude looks like pickle rick anyway. Could care less if had less strobes, but do care that people playing the game could have seizures, migraines, headaches, eye strain and the monthly event requires playing him so many times. There are flashes all over this game, but he is pretty overboard. Some tweaks wouldn't kill him either, we get new moves on character updates as it is (DDHK, Colossus, etc). They didn't get broken by changing their animations, neither will Pickle Rick.

SummonerNR · February 2021

GroundedWisdom said:

Doomsfist79 said:
Seems so strange to have objectives in the game where you need to use a particular champion to complete, and yet using that particular champion can cause health issues for people. I realize this was most likely not the intent when designed, but maybe there should have been more thought applied prior to this going live?
I don't think it's was necessarily on their minds. They're not really physicians. It's something they can try to be aware of after the fact, but in general their focus is on designing new content.

(I knew this thread was gonna take a sour turn upon someone’s very initial reply up here)

So now that they have been made aware of something (which they maybe weren’t before, because as you say they aren’t physicians), but now that they are, you still don’t want them to actually do anything about it ?

(Warning Label is insufficient, as there are new people first discovering the game every day, who will not have seen this “once-only” in-game Mail Msg, unless they forever plan on having this Mail being sent out to every new player as they first start playing the game. And the App Store doesn’t list any such seizure-warning, so no way for people to know in advance of first downloading it).

How many hundreds of other champs are in the game that DON'T have such flashing-intensive graphics ? Was the game totally unplayable and unenjoyable (lagging/crashing aside) before this one new champ came along (only 5+ years in) ?

**And let’s talk about how these intense graphics are probably a big reason why there are so many other threads being made about CRASHING during his SP1. (A lot more crashing than what happens otherwise).

So even if you don't care for them to keep the game playable by seizure-prone players, they should also change it in order to help out the Crashing because of the intense graphics.

Pulyaman · February 2021

SummonerNR said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Doomsfist79 said:
Seems so strange to have objectives in the game where you need to use a particular champion to complete, and yet using that particular champion can cause health issues for people. I realize this was most likely not the intent when designed, but maybe there should have been more thought applied prior to this going live?
I don't think it's was necessarily on their minds. They're not really physicians. It's something they can try to be aware of after the fact, but in general their focus is on designing new content.
(I knew this thread was gonna take a sour turn upon someone’s very initial reply up here)

So now that they have been made aware of something (which they maybe weren’t before, because as you say they aren’t physicians), but now that they are, you still don’t want them to actually do anything about it ?

(Warning Label is insufficient, as there are new people first discovering the game every day, who will not have seen this “once-only” in-game Mail Msg, unless they forever plan on having this Mail being sent out to every new player as they first start playing the game. And the App Store doesn’t list any such seizure-warning, so no way for people to know in advance of first downloading it).

How many hundreds of other champs are in the game that DON'T have such flashing-intensive graphics ? Was the game totally unplayable and unenjoyable (lagging/crashing aside) before this one new champ came along (only 5+ years in) ?

**And let’s talk about how these intense graphics are probably a big reason why there are so many other threads being made about CRASHING during his SP1. (A lot more crashing than what happens otherwise).

So even if you don't care for them to keep the game playable by seizure-prone players, they should also change it in order to help out the Crashing because of the intense graphics.

Exactly, Psycho-man's animations did not make this game better this month than last month. Magneto has some of the cleanest animations and he has no flashy things. Same with medusa. You can make good animations without lights and flashes. And trying to be inclusive is also not against progress. Having an option for lowering the graphics settings will only help everyone in the long run in terms of phones getting old too.

GroundedWisdom · February 2021

SummonerNR said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Doomsfist79 said:
Seems so strange to have objectives in the game where you need to use a particular champion to complete, and yet using that particular champion can cause health issues for people. I realize this was most likely not the intent when designed, but maybe there should have been more thought applied prior to this going live?
I don't think it's was necessarily on their minds. They're not really physicians. It's something they can try to be aware of after the fact, but in general their focus is on designing new content.
(I knew this thread was gonna take a sour turn upon someone’s very initial reply up here)

So now that they have been made aware of something (which they maybe weren’t before, because as you say they aren’t physicians), but now that they are, you still don’t want them to actually do anything about it ?

(Warning Label is insufficient, as there are new people first discovering the game every day, who will not have seen this “once-only” in-game Mail Msg, unless they forever plan on having this Mail being sent out to every new player as they first start playing the game. And the App Store doesn’t list any such seizure-warning, so no way for people to know in advance of first downloading it).

How many hundreds of other champs are in the game that DON'T have such flashing-intensive graphics ? Was the game totally unplayable and unenjoyable (lagging/crashing aside) before this one new champ came along (only 5+ years in) ?

**And let’s talk about how these intense graphics are probably a big reason why there are so many other threads being made about CRASHING during his SP1. (A lot more crashing than what happens otherwise).

So even if you don't care for them to keep the game playable by seizure-prone players, they should also change it in order to help out the Crashing because of the intense graphics.

A warning label is not insufficient. It allows people to be aware before they play. Unless you know of some way to prevent anyone from ever being triggered in the future I'm unfamiliar with. The game contains all kinds of flashing graphics and light-intense scenes. One particular trigger isn't the solution to everything and they can't control the health concerns of everyone.

KnightZero · February 2021

GroundedWisdom said:

SummonerNR said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Doomsfist79 said:
Seems so strange to have objectives in the game where you need to use a particular champion to complete, and yet using that particular champion can cause health issues for people. I realize this was most likely not the intent when designed, but maybe there should have been more thought applied prior to this going live?
I don't think it's was necessarily on their minds. They're not really physicians. It's something they can try to be aware of after the fact, but in general their focus is on designing new content.
(I knew this thread was gonna take a sour turn upon someone’s very initial reply up here)

So now that they have been made aware of something (which they maybe weren’t before, because as you say they aren’t physicians), but now that they are, you still don’t want them to actually do anything about it ?

(Warning Label is insufficient, as there are new people first discovering the game every day, who will not have seen this “once-only” in-game Mail Msg, unless they forever plan on having this Mail being sent out to every new player as they first start playing the game. And the App Store doesn’t list any such seizure-warning, so no way for people to know in advance of first downloading it).

How many hundreds of other champs are in the game that DON'T have such flashing-intensive graphics ? Was the game totally unplayable and unenjoyable (lagging/crashing aside) before this one new champ came along (only 5+ years in) ?

**And let’s talk about how these intense graphics are probably a big reason why there are so many other threads being made about CRASHING during his SP1. (A lot more crashing than what happens otherwise).

So even if you don't care for them to keep the game playable by seizure-prone players, they should also change it in order to help out the Crashing because of the intense graphics.
A warning label is not insufficient. It allows people to be aware before they play. Unless you know of some way to prevent anyone from ever being triggered in the future I'm unfamiliar with. The game contains all kinds of flashing graphics and light-intense scenes. One particular trigger isn't the solution to everything and they can't control the health concerns of everyone.

So if they can't control the health concerns of everyone, they should ignore what is in their control? Because changing the VFX and removing the extra flashy animations doesn't hurt the game and is in their control. People didn't have an issue prior to this or it was not that harmful that anyone has come forth and spoken about it. It started with this month. So they know what to avoid/change. It's not going to harm anything. In fact, it will reinforce the fact that Kabam cares about it's customers and the player base.

MCOCHazza · February 2021

With respect to those who suffer from this sort of stuff, I think a switch to lower the graphics that trigger it is sufficient, as well as a warning when you open the game saying that there are those sorts of animations, but a switch to lower them in case you suffer from epilepsy or similar.

I’m not trying to take anything away from anyone. I just think that this situation is tough. However I think the solution I put above has some sort of fairness to both parties. That way players without epilepsy can enjoy the full experience of the game, and those who have epilepsy receive a warning and a note about there being a way to reduce those graphics to cater for them. I think Kabam flat out reducing it for everyone takes away from a lot of the community in terms of viewing the graphics, and doing nothing is kinda ignoring the community with epilepsy. I think having a warning and an option is sufficient enough for both. But that’s just my opinion.

Notsavage19 · February 2021

Reading through this thread, I feel like an option to switch would be the best way to go about this. In the end, no one loses; people who experience discomfort will no longer experience it (they can switch them off), people who don't won't have their visuals affected (they can leave them on), and the developers don't lose a portion of their players (since those who experience discomfort can safely play the game).

I agree with points from both sides of the argument. There isn't a reason why people should suffer lower overall quality of visual gameplay because a minority experiences discomfort. On the other hand, people who are affected by flashing lights should have the option to turn them off for their safety.

I'm no visual effects expert, but altering lighting wouldn't be a huge change, would it?

Notsavage19 · February 2021

Also a warning should cycle through the loading screen text.

Notsavage19 · February 2021

HI_guys said:

Notsavage19 said:
Reading through this thread, I feel like an option to switch would be the best way to go about this. In the end, no one loses; people who experience discomfort will no longer experience it (they can switch them off), people who don't won't have their visuals affected (they can leave them on), and the developers don't lose a portion of their players (since those who experience discomfort can safely play the game).

I agree with points from both sides of the argument. There isn't a reason why people should suffer lower overall quality of visual gameplay because a minority experiences discomfort. On the other hand, people who are affected by flashing lights should have the option to turn them off for their safety.

I'm no visual effects expert, but altering lighting wouldn't be a huge change, would it?
Providing lower graphics would be more beneficial since there are players who stopped due to laggy devices and unplayable game modes

Yeah, exactly. Just provide those players with that option, but give every player the option to choose whether they want to play on a lower-graphics setting or not.

Sormor · February 2021

Notsavage19 said:

HI_guys said:

Notsavage19 said:
Reading through this thread, I feel like an option to switch would be the best way to go about this. In the end, no one loses; people who experience discomfort will no longer experience it (they can switch them off), people who don't won't have their visuals affected (they can leave them on), and the developers don't lose a portion of their players (since those who experience discomfort can safely play the game).

I agree with points from both sides of the argument. There isn't a reason why people should suffer lower overall quality of visual gameplay because a minority experiences discomfort. On the other hand, people who are affected by flashing lights should have the option to turn them off for their safety.

I'm no visual effects expert, but altering lighting wouldn't be a huge change, would it?
Providing lower graphics would be more beneficial since there are players who stopped due to laggy devices and unplayable game modes
Yeah, exactly. Just provide those players with that option, but give every player the option to choose whether they want to play on a lower-graphics setting or not.

Also an option to turn off stage effects as part of this would be great. The smoke and rain effects can be terrible at night.

Notsavage19 · February 2021

Sormor said:

Notsavage19 said:

HI_guys said:

Notsavage19 said:
Reading through this thread, I feel like an option to switch would be the best way to go about this. In the end, no one loses; people who experience discomfort will no longer experience it (they can switch them off), people who don't won't have their visuals affected (they can leave them on), and the developers don't lose a portion of their players (since those who experience discomfort can safely play the game).

I agree with points from both sides of the argument. There isn't a reason why people should suffer lower overall quality of visual gameplay because a minority experiences discomfort. On the other hand, people who are affected by flashing lights should have the option to turn them off for their safety.

I'm no visual effects expert, but altering lighting wouldn't be a huge change, would it?
Providing lower graphics would be more beneficial since there are players who stopped due to laggy devices and unplayable game modes
Yeah, exactly. Just provide those players with that option, but give every player the option to choose whether they want to play on a lower-graphics setting or not.
Also an option to turn off stage effects as part of this would be great. The smoke and rain effects can be terrible at night.

I feel like the easiest solution would just to have two options. Visual Effects on and off.

With Visual Effects off, there would be no stage effects, background movement, projectile/attack lighting, and no animations while stationary (meaning no switching of Psycho Man's control box while blocking, no flame effects on Torch).

Visual Effects on would just be the gameplay we have now.

GroundedWisdom · February 2021

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Lucasjones98 said:

Hazzalec1 said:
With respect to those who suffer from this sort of stuff, I think a switch to lower the graphics that trigger it is sufficient, as well as a warning when you open the game saying that there are those sorts of animations, but a switch to lower them in case you suffer from epilepsy or similar.

I’m not trying to take anything away from anyone. I just think that this situation is tough. However I think the solution I put above has some sort of fairness to both parties. That way players without epilepsy can enjoy the full experience of the game, and those who have epilepsy receive a warning and a note about there being a way to reduce those graphics to cater for them. I think Kabam flat out reducing it for everyone takes away from a lot of the community in terms of viewing the graphics, and doing nothing is kinda ignoring the community with epilepsy. I think having a warning and an option is sufficient enough for both. But that’s just my opinion.
As a victim of epilepsy, I agree. I don’t believe that they shout remove him from the game completely, he does have some cool animations. But I do agree with a loading screen warning & they should give options to change graphics.

That would make sense. If it's feasible.

StaphMember · February 2021

Notsavage19 said:

Sormor said:

Notsavage19 said:

HI_guys said:

Notsavage19 said:
Reading through this thread, I feel like an option to switch would be the best way to go about this. In the end, no one loses; people who experience discomfort will no longer experience it (they can switch them off), people who don't won't have their visuals affected (they can leave them on), and the developers don't lose a portion of their players (since those who experience discomfort can safely play the game).

I agree with points from both sides of the argument. There isn't a reason why people should suffer lower overall quality of visual gameplay because a minority experiences discomfort. On the other hand, people who are affected by flashing lights should have the option to turn them off for their safety.

I'm no visual effects expert, but altering lighting wouldn't be a huge change, would it?
Providing lower graphics would be more beneficial since there are players who stopped due to laggy devices and unplayable game modes
Yeah, exactly. Just provide those players with that option, but give every player the option to choose whether they want to play on a lower-graphics setting or not.
Also an option to turn off stage effects as part of this would be great. The smoke and rain effects can be terrible at night.
I feel like the easiest solution would just to have two options. Visual Effects on and off.

With Visual Effects off, there would be no stage effects, background movement, projectile/attack lighting, and no animations while stationary (meaning no switching of Psycho Man's control box while blocking, no flame effects on Torch).

Visual Effects on would just be the gameplay we have now.

They can contract a consultant to determine which effects pose the greatest threat and advise on how they might safely avoid these effects in the future as well, or at least create guidelines for a threshold of when/which effects should be modified.

“Caution light sensitivity” discussion

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