Overhaul Candidates

This is a frequent forums topic, and deservedly so. When I look at the fleet of 6*’s, though, I’m convinced the number of champs who need a complete overhaul isn’t as large as one might think.

When I look at my roster, there are plenty of underperforming champs. But many of them could be improved with basic numbers adjustments or via the addition of a simple buff/debuff/limited immunity type of change. As an example, take Beast: not anywhere near the top of the mutant class, but also not totally irredeemable. Numbers adjustments, maybe a shrug mechanic or the ability to apply some more debuffs (a la MrF) would make him a decent utility champ. But I don’t think that rises to the level of an overhaul.

I also don’t believe the purpose of an overhaul should be to make a champ one of the best overall in the game. Rather, the goal should be to bring a champ into the current state of the game and make them a viable choice for at least some of the current content.

So here’s my list of top overhaul candidates by class. I’m sure opinions will differ—but these are the most urgent in my opinion and in most cases the most long suffering.

Skill
Karnak
OGBP

Cosmic
Groot
SIM
Drax

Mystic
Iron Fist
Juggs

Science
Joe Fixit
Ant-Man
OG Spidey
(Miles is omitted because he is a certain overhaul case)

Tech
Iron Patriot
Howard the Duck
OGIM

Mutant
Unpopular opinion I’m sure, but I’m not convinced any mutant needs a total overhaul. Both Cykes and DPX would be top of list for me if anyone, but I tend to think values updates and minor tweaks could make those champs useful again. I wouldn’t object to an overhaul—but I think the mutant class generally is a strong one top to bottom.

Dr. Zola

Comments

SpideyFunko

Og BP is getting overhauled

also knew you would choose beast for your example

TheBair123

i think all the avengers are a bit outdated and way out of the meta, and i think there is an easy way to solve that. i would give og iron man an overhaul, and give him a synergy with all the og avengers like apoc with the mutants

DrZola

Og BP is getting overhauled

also knew you would choose beast for your example

Good catch. Forgot that. And of course Beast.

Dr. Zola

SpideyFunko

Og BP is getting overhauled

also knew you would choose beast for your example
Good catch. Forgot that. And of course Beast.

Dr. Zola

Yeah, and Miles is also getting overhauled

DrZola

Og BP is getting overhauled

also knew you would choose beast for your example
Good catch. Forgot that. And of course Beast.

Dr. Zola
Yeah, and Miles is also getting overhauled

Noted that one.

Dr. Zola

The_Sentry06

Agree with this list.

Danyal_39

I gues both Caps also kinda needs overhaul cause they've got really limited abilities. Also War Machine also comes to mind, but he can be done good with a good tune up of abilities and numbers.
As for side note, Ebony Maw is one of the best value update candidate as if played right you can end entire fights without getting touched even once (except miss counters). Also he's got a bit of power gain as well as good nullify and degeneration as DOT to which no one is naturally immune to. He just hit so weak that fights take eternity. With a good value update, Maw will be able to transcend reality and take his rightful place as the master of his Mighty herald Terrax!!!

SpideyFunko

I gues both Caps also kinda needs overhaul cause they've got really limited abilities. Also War Machine also comes to mind, but he can be done good with a good tune up of abilities and numbers.
As for side note, Ebony Maw is one of the best value update candidate as if played right you can end entire fights without getting touched even once (except miss counters). Also he's got a bit of power gain as well as good nullify and degeneration as DOT to which no one is naturally immune to. He just hit so weak that fights take eternity. With a good value update, Maw will be able to transcend reality and take his rightful place as the master of his Mighty herald Terrax!!!

if they do overhaul they should touch his block except maybe to let him block unblockable attacks

Shadowstrike

I'd love it if Beast had his backpack in the game. It would increase his utility significantly without trying.

Kill_Grey

I gues both Caps also kinda needs overhaul cause they've got really limited abilities. Also War Machine also comes to mind, but he can be done good with a good tune up of abilities and numbers.
As for side note, Ebony Maw is one of the best value update candidate as if played right you can end entire fights without getting touched even once (except miss counters). Also he's got a bit of power gain as well as good nullify and degeneration as DOT to which no one is naturally immune to. He just hit so weak that fights take eternity. With a good value update, Maw will be able to transcend reality and take his rightful place as the master of his Mighty herald Terrax!!!
if they do overhaul they should touch his block except maybe to let him block unblockable attacks

Punctuations...

FlyGalaxyBomb

Yes, I agree with everyone

Dr. Zola

DrZola

I gues both Caps also kinda needs overhaul cause they've got really limited abilities. Also War Machine also comes to mind, but he can be done good with a good tune up of abilities and numbers.
As for side note, Ebony Maw is one of the best value update candidate as if played right you can end entire fights without getting touched even once (except miss counters). Also he's got a bit of power gain as well as good nullify and degeneration as DOT to which no one is naturally immune to. He just hit so weak that fights take eternity. With a good value update, Maw will be able to transcend reality and take his rightful place as the master of his Mighty herald Terrax!!!

Both Caps were on the line for me. Ultimately, I decided some value updates and added utility could make them useful (for example, super high BP, increased stun chance, reduced opp power rate while stunned, more debuffs, even a mechanic like Guardian where certain strikes take back a bit of opponent power bar).

Certainly, they need more than a value update only. But I think the basic moveset with a few added kit pieces (which would need to be different for OG vs. WW2) could make them viable.

Dr. Zola

Mobius360

My friend @DrZola

Beast when high sig from what I remember has a decent healing ability. His lack of damage is the thing that probably has left him behind. I'd like to see him have an increased bleed ability, maybe can gain a passive fury or two and have an increased ability accuracy against debuff shrugs from skill heros. That would be unique and a good counter to the likes of Mole Man, King Pin and some of the others in the class.

As for the classes and reworks, I agree mostly with your list.

Cosmic, would benefit from the two Cap Marvels getting some sort of tweak. Kamala perhaps extended fury buffs. Groot would be the most needed though. Drax could use something extra and Ronan would be fun if he could have a little extra source for damage and perhaps build some of that Cosmic Tree Mastery into his kit where he can ignore armor the higher his combo or something.

Mystic, Iron fist could add a bit more utility on nullifying buffs and a chi mechanic that build up his power for damage or can be used to heal. Dr Strange, please fix back to pre 12.0.

Tech, War Machine is very outdated. I think Both Visions could use something similar to the Warlock and Aarkus synergies. They shouldn't hit like wet noodles. Ultron's would be nice as well.

Skill, Both Black Panthers would be good, Give Hawkeye 3 different arrow types that you can switch through, A small tweak to WS giving his power drain more consistency and longer more powerful fury buff. Karnaks SP1 needs some damage and just really his damage overall other than that he has cool abilities.

Science, Hulk and Fix it are number one on my list, Spider-Man and Caps two.

Mutant, Has to be both Cyclops at this point.

Kabam could instantly fix 6 OG Hero's if they put the infinity gauntlet buffs back on them. Hulk, Ironman, Cap, Black Widow, Hawkeye. I think Thor may have had a buff in there as well. Even if they toned down those buffs they were really good but sadly only used for 1 month.

9ball_Dorky_McDork

I am surprised no one mentioned Spider-Man (Symbiote) & Ms. Marvel/Capt. Marvel (Classic). Ms. Marvel & Capt. Marvel are very basic and the only value they bring are Poison Immunity. I know black suit Spider-Man hits hard on his SP2, but he is still underwhelming for me. But that is my personal issue; I despise redundancy for the sake of more models/sales.

I also personally don’t like the fight style of Black Panther (Civil War), deeply unsatisfying. And Red Skull was very disappointing when he was released. His glass Armor Ups alone make me avoid him. I don’t want a synergy for this fix; there needs to be a completely different solution to this problem.

SpideyFunko

I gues both Caps also kinda needs overhaul cause they've got really limited abilities. Also War Machine also comes to mind, but he can be done good with a good tune up of abilities and numbers.
As for side note, Ebony Maw is one of the best value update candidate as if played right you can end entire fights without getting touched even once (except miss counters). Also he's got a bit of power gain as well as good nullify and degeneration as DOT to which no one is naturally immune to. He just hit so weak that fights take eternity. With a good value update, Maw will be able to transcend reality and take his rightful place as the master of his Mighty herald Terrax!!!
if they do overhaul they should touch his block except maybe to let him block unblockable attacks

I can’t type 🤦‍♂️ meant to say shouldn’t touch his block

DrZola

@9ball_Dorky_McDork and @Mobius360 agree on the reskins. I tend to forget about all the slightly different versions of classic champs (Ms. Marvel in particular, who is surprisingly available as a 6*).

Those would all be good additions, especially with updates that differentiate them from the primary version.

Good ideas...

Dr. Zola

9ball_Dorky_McDork

While I did mention those champs, I’m actually on the side of maintaining the status quo - do not change the champs. I have a limited time to play and even less resources to rank up every champ that is useful.

I am in the camp of curating the list of champs. It’s a different discussion for another day. Plus Kabam is set on releasing their 2015 models with their 2016-2021 models for every star rarity. If they were a car company, even without the pandemic, they would belly up. Terrible business model.

MrBanks

I think it should look more like this

Skill

Karnak
Agent Venom
OG Daredevil

Science

Sentry
Miles Morales*
Ant-man

Tech

Iron Patriot
War Machine
Green Goblin

Cosmic

Superior Iron Man
Groot
Phoenix

Mystic

Juggernaut
Iron Fist
Dr Strange

Mutant

Beast
Rogue
Psylocke

Mobius360

I am surprised no one mentioned Spider-Man (Symbiote) & Ms. Marvel/Capt. Marvel (Classic). Ms. Marvel & Capt. Marvel are very basic and the only value they bring are Poison Immunity. I know black suit Spider-Man hits hard on his SP2, but he is still underwhelming for me. But that is my personal issue; I despise redundancy for the sake of more models/sales.

I have a ranked up Spider-Man Symbiote, he could use a little love but he's not terrible either. I would like a new SP1 animation for him and more tied into the Symbiote Class, there's literally one synergy he's part of that has something to do with bleeds which he can't do.

He should gain buffs like Venom and Carnage I feel.

Moosetiptronic

Og bp over Elektra or moonknight? Ogbp has good synergies, is excellent for do you bleed and the skill, bleed cav EQ node.

Now I think he should be in there... but not above the other two, they have to be on a list.

Especially if you leave off og cap in the science bracket.

odishika123

A Groot and Antman buff will be heavily Appreciated

Not cause I have both as 6 stars

JragonMaster170

Moon knight and Dorm

DrZola

Good comments all. Thanks to everyone for participating. My hope would be that threads like these are useful to the team in terms of triaging overhauls.

And I do agree that some champs mentioned by @Moosetiptronic and @JragonMaster170 are surely on the list somewhere. I simply thought they would be able to be made relevant via less intrusive means.

When I think about the type of changes that would help those kind of champs, I look to Masacre for a blueprint. Granted, he was better before his buff than either Elektra or MK now. But with the addition of Disorient and quicker incinerates, he’s significantly better and more fun to play. Consider similar upgrades for Elektra and MK that harness AAR, stronger DoT and other debuffs and you can see how they would become someone you might actually reach for now and then.

Most importantly—thanks for taking time to discuss.

Dr. Zola

KGW186

I’d love a Moon Knight buff to be similar to how to play Morningstar, you win fights to gain the next ‘moon phase’ instead of him being impacted by the moons IRL position.

BinkPlayz

OGBP and Miles are already getting buffed at some point and IF is okay but could use an angela/massacre style buff

other than that good list

Annihilator13_

Damn, he's got less than 1k dislikes

Deacon

Juggs, Sentry.

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