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CGR vs Hyperion: Who is Better?

245678

Comments

  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,254 ★★★★★
    Cosmic Ghost Rider
    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    JoshKosh557 said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    I have both. Hype is just so much more simple, practical and effective for majority of scenarios.

    People think CGR is complex and he really isn’t you just have to end combos with Lights Medium and before you throw and SP2 when the enemy stunned charge heavy real quick.

    Try not to dex before that but it’s inevitable
    Yup, not complicated at all...
    Let me explain Doom Cycle for you

    Push opponent to two bars of power whilst being at 3 bars yourself. Throw SP3. You’ll gain a fury buff. Opponent will be stunned after SP3 then do Medium Medium Light Light Light Medium Medium (the lights will power steal) you should be at an SP1 and then use it to take power from the opponent. You’ll be at an SP2 and they will be a little below 2 bars of power. either use SP2 or build up to an SP3 to gain another fury buff
    The difference between the doom cycle and Cgr's cycle is that you have complete control of the fight with doom, but you r restricted with cgr. Also cgr has like a million rotations that can be used for different things so it is definitely overwhelming when u start playing him. However Cgr's is still definitely useable (without dexing) in a lot of situations like unblockable specials which is a situation where people dont expect him to work
    https://youtu.be/FkUq1WlMTkM


    In this fight, you can make it so that in between Sp3 there is about 10 seconds until the next one, during those ten seconds they are power locked, heal blocked and fate sealed for all but one combo.

    what is that if not in almost complete control?
    Through the dupe. Its great, but not 100% uptime, so it is not complete control. It is some control though.

    CGR has the best damage in the game, but damage isnt everything. Like Sunspot is all damage with a little utility, but there is no world where he beats AA.
    No champion has 100% uptime on a counter for healing, power and buffs. That's like saying Doom isn't great because he doesn't have 100% uptime on his power steal

    Comparing sunspot to archangel for damage? Archangel has comparable, if not better damage.
  • HoitadoHoitado Posts: 3,707 ★★★★★
    Cosmic Ghost Rider
    JoshKosh557 said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    I have both. Hype is just so much more simple, practical and effective for majority of scenarios.

    People think CGR is complex and he really isn’t you just have to end combos with Lights Medium and before you throw and SP2 when the enemy stunned charge heavy real quick.

    Try not to dex before that but it’s inevitable
    Yup, not complicated at all...
    Let me explain Doom Cycle for you

    Push opponent to two bars of power whilst being at 3 bars yourself. Throw SP3. You’ll gain a fury buff. Opponent will be stunned after SP3 then do Medium Medium Light Light Light Medium Medium (the lights will power steal) you should be at an SP1 and then use it to take power from the opponent. You’ll be at an SP2 and they will be a little below 2 bars of power. either use SP2 or build up to an SP3 to gain another fury buff
    The difference between the doom cycle and Cgr's cycle is that you have complete control of the fight with doom, but you r restricted with cgr. Also cgr has like a million rotations that can be used for different things so it is definitely overwhelming when u start playing him. However Cgr's is still definitely useable (without dexing) in a lot of situations like unblockable specials which is a situation where people dont expect him to work
    Even if you’re not good enough to play him and control the fight you can end it so quick before the opponent gains control compared to doom
  • ChaosMax1012ChaosMax1012 Posts: 3,085 ★★★★★
    Cosmic Ghost Rider
    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    JoshKosh557 said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    I have both. Hype is just so much more simple, practical and effective for majority of scenarios.

    People think CGR is complex and he really isn’t you just have to end combos with Lights Medium and before you throw and SP2 when the enemy stunned charge heavy real quick.

    Try not to dex before that but it’s inevitable
    Yup, not complicated at all...
    Let me explain Doom Cycle for you

    Push opponent to two bars of power whilst being at 3 bars yourself. Throw SP3. You’ll gain a fury buff. Opponent will be stunned after SP3 then do Medium Medium Light Light Light Medium Medium (the lights will power steal) you should be at an SP1 and then use it to take power from the opponent. You’ll be at an SP2 and they will be a little below 2 bars of power. either use SP2 or build up to an SP3 to gain another fury buff
    The difference between the doom cycle and Cgr's cycle is that you have complete control of the fight with doom, but you r restricted with cgr. Also cgr has like a million rotations that can be used for different things so it is definitely overwhelming when u start playing him. However Cgr's is still definitely useable (without dexing) in a lot of situations like unblockable specials which is a situation where people dont expect him to work
    https://youtu.be/FkUq1WlMTkM


    In this fight, you can make it so that in between Sp3 there is about 10 seconds until the next one, during those ten seconds they are power locked, heal blocked and fate sealed for all but one combo.

    what is that if not in almost complete control?
    Through the dupe. Its great, but not 100% uptime, so it is not complete control. It is some control though.

    CGR has the best damage in the game, but damage isnt everything. Like Sunspot is all damage with a little utility, but there is no world where he beats AA.
    CGR has insane damage and good utility, that’s what makes him different from your analogy.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,254 ★★★★★
    Cosmic Ghost Rider
    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Skillful_star said:

    This is probably the most well documented biased opinion I've seen,so kudos for that. But I do think you brushed off 1 thing off of hyperion, the ability to keep constantly gaining furies means unlike cosmic ghost rider his damage isn't limited and rather his ultimate ceiling is higher than that of cgr. I have both as r5 5*s btw and I've played around with both of them.

    Thank you! I've tried to keep as much bias out. No point making a post listing all CGR good points and all Hyp bad.

    I'm curious about what you mean by Cosmic Ghost Rider;'s damage being limited.

    https://youtu.be/FkUq1WlMTkM

    in this video, it shows a pretty straightforward rotation that allows for between 2 and 4 furies at all time. On a 5/65 CGR that's between 5750 and 11500 damage at all times and with 2 aptitudes from the heavy attack it's doubled to 11500-23000 attack increase. Hyperion at 5/65 has each fury at 1326 attack, so he would have to have 8-16 furies at all times. I'd say CGR has higher damage.
    CGR definitely has higher damage. 8 furies isnt hard to maintain on Hype, and his are very easy to access.
    8 isn't too hard, but 16? Cgr has very easy to access fury too.
  • MasterpuffMasterpuff Posts: 6,465 ★★★★★
    Hyperion
    BitterSteel said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    JoshKosh557 said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    I have both. Hype is just so much more simple, practical and effective for majority of scenarios.

    People think CGR is complex and he really isn’t you just have to end combos with Lights Medium and before you throw and SP2 when the enemy stunned charge heavy real quick.

    Try not to dex before that but it’s inevitable
    Yup, not complicated at all...
    Let me explain Doom Cycle for you

    Push opponent to two bars of power whilst being at 3 bars yourself. Throw SP3. You’ll gain a fury buff. Opponent will be stunned after SP3 then do Medium Medium Light Light Light Medium Medium (the lights will power steal) you should be at an SP1 and then use it to take power from the opponent. You’ll be at an SP2 and they will be a little below 2 bars of power. either use SP2 or build up to an SP3 to gain another fury buff
    The difference between the doom cycle and Cgr's cycle is that you have complete control of the fight with doom, but you r restricted with cgr. Also cgr has like a million rotations that can be used for different things so it is definitely overwhelming when u start playing him. However Cgr's is still definitely useable (without dexing) in a lot of situations like unblockable specials which is a situation where people dont expect him to work
    https://youtu.be/FkUq1WlMTkM


    In this fight, you can make it so that in between Sp3 there is about 10 seconds until the next one, during those ten seconds they are power locked, heal blocked and fate sealed for all but one combo.

    what is that if not in almost complete control?
    Through the dupe. Its great, but not 100% uptime, so it is not complete control. It is some control though.

    CGR has the best damage in the game, but damage isnt everything. Like Sunspot is all damage with a little utility, but there is no world where he beats AA.
    No champion has 100% uptime on a counter for healing, power and buffs. That's like saying Doom isn't great because he doesn't have 100% uptime on his power steal

    Comparing sunspot to archangel for damage? Archangel has comparable, if not better damage.
    AA and Warlock have 100% uptime on healblock after about 10 seconds.
    Magik has 100% uptime on powerlock after the first sp2.
    Psylocke has 100% uptime on enervate with other power control.
    And yeah, i dont think anyone has the fate seal.


    It was more of a comparison of a champ thats mostly damage and one with good damage but also massive utility.
  • MasterpuffMasterpuff Posts: 6,465 ★★★★★
    Hyperion
    ChaosMax1012 said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    JoshKosh557 said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    I have both. Hype is just so much more simple, practical and effective for majority of scenarios.

    People think CGR is complex and he really isn’t you just have to end combos with Lights Medium and before you throw and SP2 when the enemy stunned charge heavy real quick.

    Try not to dex before that but it’s inevitable
    Yup, not complicated at all...
    Let me explain Doom Cycle for you

    Push opponent to two bars of power whilst being at 3 bars yourself. Throw SP3. You’ll gain a fury buff. Opponent will be stunned after SP3 then do Medium Medium Light Light Light Medium Medium (the lights will power steal) you should be at an SP1 and then use it to take power from the opponent. You’ll be at an SP2 and they will be a little below 2 bars of power. either use SP2 or build up to an SP3 to gain another fury buff
    The difference between the doom cycle and Cgr's cycle is that you have complete control of the fight with doom, but you r restricted with cgr. Also cgr has like a million rotations that can be used for different things so it is definitely overwhelming when u start playing him. However Cgr's is still definitely useable (without dexing) in a lot of situations like unblockable specials which is a situation where people dont expect him to work
    https://youtu.be/FkUq1WlMTkM


    In this fight, you can make it so that in between Sp3 there is about 10 seconds until the next one, during those ten seconds they are power locked, heal blocked and fate sealed for all but one combo.

    what is that if not in almost complete control?
    Through the dupe. Its great, but not 100% uptime, so it is not complete control. It is some control though.

    CGR has the best damage in the game, but damage isnt everything. Like Sunspot is all damage with a little utility, but there is no world where he beats AA.
    CGR has insane damage and good utility, that’s what makes him different from your analogy.
    Good utility? It is decent. But nothing that good. In my opinion at least.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,254 ★★★★★
    Cosmic Ghost Rider
    Crcrcrc said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Skillful_star said:

    This is probably the most well documented biased opinion I've seen,so kudos for that. But I do think you brushed off 1 thing off of hyperion, the ability to keep constantly gaining furies means unlike cosmic ghost rider his damage isn't limited and rather his ultimate ceiling is higher than that of cgr. I have both as r5 5*s btw and I've played around with both of them.

    Thank you! I've tried to keep as much bias out. No point making a post listing all CGR good points and all Hyp bad.

    I'm curious about what you mean by Cosmic Ghost Rider;'s damage being limited.

    https://youtu.be/FkUq1WlMTkM

    in this video, it shows a pretty straightforward rotation that allows for between 2 and 4 furies at all time. On a 5/65 CGR that's between 5750 and 11500 damage at all times and with 2 aptitudes from the heavy attack it's doubled to 11500-23000 attack increase. Hyperion at 5/65 has each fury at 1326 attack, so he would have to have 8-16 furies at all times. I'd say CGR has higher damage.
    CGR definitely has higher damage. 8 furies isnt hard to maintain on Hype, and his are very easy to access.
    8 isn't too hard, but 16? Cgr has very easy to access fury too.
    Cgr's damage is also 100% reliant on specials, so a power lock or power drain node makes him worthless, whereas Hype can just heavy spam for days
    Fair point, every champion has weaknesses. But Hyperion's utility is almost solely based on specials, so he wouldn't be great in that situation either
  • MasterpuffMasterpuff Posts: 6,465 ★★★★★
    Hyperion
    BitterSteel said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Skillful_star said:

    This is probably the most well documented biased opinion I've seen,so kudos for that. But I do think you brushed off 1 thing off of hyperion, the ability to keep constantly gaining furies means unlike cosmic ghost rider his damage isn't limited and rather his ultimate ceiling is higher than that of cgr. I have both as r5 5*s btw and I've played around with both of them.

    Thank you! I've tried to keep as much bias out. No point making a post listing all CGR good points and all Hyp bad.

    I'm curious about what you mean by Cosmic Ghost Rider;'s damage being limited.

    https://youtu.be/FkUq1WlMTkM

    in this video, it shows a pretty straightforward rotation that allows for between 2 and 4 furies at all time. On a 5/65 CGR that's between 5750 and 11500 damage at all times and with 2 aptitudes from the heavy attack it's doubled to 11500-23000 attack increase. Hyperion at 5/65 has each fury at 1326 attack, so he would have to have 8-16 furies at all times. I'd say CGR has higher damage.
    CGR definitely has higher damage. 8 furies isnt hard to maintain on Hype, and his are very easy to access.
    8 isn't too hard, but 16? Cgr has very easy to access fury too.
    I didnt say 16 because it isnt reliably up. As i said before, 8 is a good number. And he does, but is the CGR rotation or parry heavy easier?
  • MasterpuffMasterpuff Posts: 6,465 ★★★★★
    Hyperion
    BitterSteel said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Skillful_star said:

    This is probably the most well documented biased opinion I've seen,so kudos for that. But I do think you brushed off 1 thing off of hyperion, the ability to keep constantly gaining furies means unlike cosmic ghost rider his damage isn't limited and rather his ultimate ceiling is higher than that of cgr. I have both as r5 5*s btw and I've played around with both of them.

    Thank you! I've tried to keep as much bias out. No point making a post listing all CGR good points and all Hyp bad.

    I'm curious about what you mean by Cosmic Ghost Rider;'s damage being limited.

    https://youtu.be/FkUq1WlMTkM

    in this video, it shows a pretty straightforward rotation that allows for between 2 and 4 furies at all time. On a 5/65 CGR that's between 5750 and 11500 damage at all times and with 2 aptitudes from the heavy attack it's doubled to 11500-23000 attack increase. Hyperion at 5/65 has each fury at 1326 attack, so he would have to have 8-16 furies at all times. I'd say CGR has higher damage.
    CGR definitely has higher damage. 8 furies isnt hard to maintain on Hype, and his are very easy to access.
    8 isn't too hard, but 16? Cgr has very easy to access fury too.
    Cgr's damage is also 100% reliant on specials, so a power lock or power drain node makes him worthless, whereas Hype can just heavy spam for days
    Fair point, every champion has weaknesses. But Hyperion's utility is almost solely based on specials, so he wouldn't be great in that situation either
    Bruh what happens when CGR cant throw specials
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,254 ★★★★★
    Cosmic Ghost Rider
    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    JoshKosh557 said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    I have both. Hype is just so much more simple, practical and effective for majority of scenarios.

    People think CGR is complex and he really isn’t you just have to end combos with Lights Medium and before you throw and SP2 when the enemy stunned charge heavy real quick.

    Try not to dex before that but it’s inevitable
    Yup, not complicated at all...
    Let me explain Doom Cycle for you

    Push opponent to two bars of power whilst being at 3 bars yourself. Throw SP3. You’ll gain a fury buff. Opponent will be stunned after SP3 then do Medium Medium Light Light Light Medium Medium (the lights will power steal) you should be at an SP1 and then use it to take power from the opponent. You’ll be at an SP2 and they will be a little below 2 bars of power. either use SP2 or build up to an SP3 to gain another fury buff
    The difference between the doom cycle and Cgr's cycle is that you have complete control of the fight with doom, but you r restricted with cgr. Also cgr has like a million rotations that can be used for different things so it is definitely overwhelming when u start playing him. However Cgr's is still definitely useable (without dexing) in a lot of situations like unblockable specials which is a situation where people dont expect him to work
    https://youtu.be/FkUq1WlMTkM


    In this fight, you can make it so that in between Sp3 there is about 10 seconds until the next one, during those ten seconds they are power locked, heal blocked and fate sealed for all but one combo.

    what is that if not in almost complete control?
    Through the dupe. Its great, but not 100% uptime, so it is not complete control. It is some control though.

    CGR has the best damage in the game, but damage isnt everything. Like Sunspot is all damage with a little utility, but there is no world where he beats AA.
    No champion has 100% uptime on a counter for healing, power and buffs. That's like saying Doom isn't great because he doesn't have 100% uptime on his power steal

    Comparing sunspot to archangel for damage? Archangel has comparable, if not better damage.
    AA and Warlock have 100% uptime on healblock after about 10 seconds.
    Magik has 100% uptime on powerlock after the first sp2.
    Psylocke has 100% uptime on enervate with other power control.
    And yeah, i dont think anyone has the fate seal.


    It was more of a comparison of a champ thats mostly damage and one with good damage but also massive utility.
    Sorry I meant all at once, sorry if that wasn't clear enough. CGR has uptime on all of them, except one combo. I think that is nuts
  • ChaosMax1012ChaosMax1012 Posts: 3,085 ★★★★★
    Cosmic Ghost Rider
    Masterpuff said:

    ChaosMax1012 said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    JoshKosh557 said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    I have both. Hype is just so much more simple, practical and effective for majority of scenarios.

    People think CGR is complex and he really isn’t you just have to end combos with Lights Medium and before you throw and SP2 when the enemy stunned charge heavy real quick.

    Try not to dex before that but it’s inevitable
    Yup, not complicated at all...
    Let me explain Doom Cycle for you

    Push opponent to two bars of power whilst being at 3 bars yourself. Throw SP3. You’ll gain a fury buff. Opponent will be stunned after SP3 then do Medium Medium Light Light Light Medium Medium (the lights will power steal) you should be at an SP1 and then use it to take power from the opponent. You’ll be at an SP2 and they will be a little below 2 bars of power. either use SP2 or build up to an SP3 to gain another fury buff
    The difference between the doom cycle and Cgr's cycle is that you have complete control of the fight with doom, but you r restricted with cgr. Also cgr has like a million rotations that can be used for different things so it is definitely overwhelming when u start playing him. However Cgr's is still definitely useable (without dexing) in a lot of situations like unblockable specials which is a situation where people dont expect him to work
    https://youtu.be/FkUq1WlMTkM


    In this fight, you can make it so that in between Sp3 there is about 10 seconds until the next one, during those ten seconds they are power locked, heal blocked and fate sealed for all but one combo.

    what is that if not in almost complete control?
    Through the dupe. Its great, but not 100% uptime, so it is not complete control. It is some control though.

    CGR has the best damage in the game, but damage isnt everything. Like Sunspot is all damage with a little utility, but there is no world where he beats AA.
    CGR has insane damage and good utility, that’s what makes him different from your analogy.
    Good utility? It is decent. But nothing that good. In my opinion at least.
    Elaborate on how bleed/incinerate immunity, armor break, potent power gain, precision and cruelty, aptitude, isn’t that good.
  • Pancake_FacePancake_Face Posts: 1,390 ★★★★
    Cosmic Ghost Rider
    Hype is insane but he is rng bases. CGR isn't however Hype is way easier to use but CGR is better just barely though
  • MasterpuffMasterpuff Posts: 6,465 ★★★★★
    Hyperion
    BitterSteel said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    JoshKosh557 said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    I have both. Hype is just so much more simple, practical and effective for majority of scenarios.

    People think CGR is complex and he really isn’t you just have to end combos with Lights Medium and before you throw and SP2 when the enemy stunned charge heavy real quick.

    Try not to dex before that but it’s inevitable
    Yup, not complicated at all...
    Let me explain Doom Cycle for you

    Push opponent to two bars of power whilst being at 3 bars yourself. Throw SP3. You’ll gain a fury buff. Opponent will be stunned after SP3 then do Medium Medium Light Light Light Medium Medium (the lights will power steal) you should be at an SP1 and then use it to take power from the opponent. You’ll be at an SP2 and they will be a little below 2 bars of power. either use SP2 or build up to an SP3 to gain another fury buff
    The difference between the doom cycle and Cgr's cycle is that you have complete control of the fight with doom, but you r restricted with cgr. Also cgr has like a million rotations that can be used for different things so it is definitely overwhelming when u start playing him. However Cgr's is still definitely useable (without dexing) in a lot of situations like unblockable specials which is a situation where people dont expect him to work
    https://youtu.be/FkUq1WlMTkM


    In this fight, you can make it so that in between Sp3 there is about 10 seconds until the next one, during those ten seconds they are power locked, heal blocked and fate sealed for all but one combo.

    what is that if not in almost complete control?
    Through the dupe. Its great, but not 100% uptime, so it is not complete control. It is some control though.

    CGR has the best damage in the game, but damage isnt everything. Like Sunspot is all damage with a little utility, but there is no world where he beats AA.
    No champion has 100% uptime on a counter for healing, power and buffs. That's like saying Doom isn't great because he doesn't have 100% uptime on his power steal

    Comparing sunspot to archangel for damage? Archangel has comparable, if not better damage.
    AA and Warlock have 100% uptime on healblock after about 10 seconds.
    Magik has 100% uptime on powerlock after the first sp2.
    Psylocke has 100% uptime on enervate with other power control.
    And yeah, i dont think anyone has the fate seal.


    It was more of a comparison of a champ thats mostly damage and one with good damage but also massive utility.
    Sorry I meant all at once, sorry if that wasn't clear enough. CGR has uptime on all of them, except one combo. I think that is nuts
    Its decent, but it is much less viable due to the time its not up. Additionally, you need the dupe. And i would say CMM and Corvus benefit way more from the dupe.

    I mean, i still think that CMM duped is better than CGR. But people aint ready for that conversation.
  • MasterpuffMasterpuff Posts: 6,465 ★★★★★
    Hyperion
    ChaosMax1012 said:

    Masterpuff said:

    ChaosMax1012 said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    JoshKosh557 said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    I have both. Hype is just so much more simple, practical and effective for majority of scenarios.

    People think CGR is complex and he really isn’t you just have to end combos with Lights Medium and before you throw and SP2 when the enemy stunned charge heavy real quick.

    Try not to dex before that but it’s inevitable
    Yup, not complicated at all...
    Let me explain Doom Cycle for you

    Push opponent to two bars of power whilst being at 3 bars yourself. Throw SP3. You’ll gain a fury buff. Opponent will be stunned after SP3 then do Medium Medium Light Light Light Medium Medium (the lights will power steal) you should be at an SP1 and then use it to take power from the opponent. You’ll be at an SP2 and they will be a little below 2 bars of power. either use SP2 or build up to an SP3 to gain another fury buff
    The difference between the doom cycle and Cgr's cycle is that you have complete control of the fight with doom, but you r restricted with cgr. Also cgr has like a million rotations that can be used for different things so it is definitely overwhelming when u start playing him. However Cgr's is still definitely useable (without dexing) in a lot of situations like unblockable specials which is a situation where people dont expect him to work
    https://youtu.be/FkUq1WlMTkM


    In this fight, you can make it so that in between Sp3 there is about 10 seconds until the next one, during those ten seconds they are power locked, heal blocked and fate sealed for all but one combo.

    what is that if not in almost complete control?
    Through the dupe. Its great, but not 100% uptime, so it is not complete control. It is some control though.

    CGR has the best damage in the game, but damage isnt everything. Like Sunspot is all damage with a little utility, but there is no world where he beats AA.
    CGR has insane damage and good utility, that’s what makes him different from your analogy.
    Good utility? It is decent. But nothing that good. In my opinion at least.
    Elaborate on how bleed/incinerate immunity, armor break, potent power gain, precision and cruelty, aptitude, isn’t that good.
    Armor break is not really a utility, and those buffs are powerful but none of them except maybe powergain are utility. Thats like calling countering buffed up a utility.

    Hype doesnt even have to land a basic hit on them to access his utility.
  • ChaosMax1012ChaosMax1012 Posts: 3,085 ★★★★★
    Cosmic Ghost Rider
    Crcrcrc said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Skillful_star said:

    This is probably the most well documented biased opinion I've seen,so kudos for that. But I do think you brushed off 1 thing off of hyperion, the ability to keep constantly gaining furies means unlike cosmic ghost rider his damage isn't limited and rather his ultimate ceiling is higher than that of cgr. I have both as r5 5*s btw and I've played around with both of them.

    Thank you! I've tried to keep as much bias out. No point making a post listing all CGR good points and all Hyp bad.

    I'm curious about what you mean by Cosmic Ghost Rider;'s damage being limited.

    https://youtu.be/FkUq1WlMTkM

    in this video, it shows a pretty straightforward rotation that allows for between 2 and 4 furies at all time. On a 5/65 CGR that's between 5750 and 11500 damage at all times and with 2 aptitudes from the heavy attack it's doubled to 11500-23000 attack increase. Hyperion at 5/65 has each fury at 1326 attack, so he would have to have 8-16 furies at all times. I'd say CGR has higher damage.
    CGR definitely has higher damage. 8 furies isnt hard to maintain on Hype, and his are very easy to access.
    8 isn't too hard, but 16? Cgr has very easy to access fury too.
    Cgr's damage is also 100% reliant on specials, so a power lock or power drain node makes him worthless, whereas Hype can just heavy spam for days
    This is 100% false, with the armor breaks stacked up, his combos hit like a truck.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,254 ★★★★★
    Cosmic Ghost Rider
    My comment on what happens when CGR can't throw specials has been sent to moderation, but every champion has bad matchups. What about when quake is against true strike? Or doom against evaders.

    Don't take them to those matches. How often are you not able to throw specials? Not enough to say CGR doesn't get a place on your team
  • ChaosMax1012ChaosMax1012 Posts: 3,085 ★★★★★
    Cosmic Ghost Rider
    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    JoshKosh557 said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    I have both. Hype is just so much more simple, practical and effective for majority of scenarios.

    People think CGR is complex and he really isn’t you just have to end combos with Lights Medium and before you throw and SP2 when the enemy stunned charge heavy real quick.

    Try not to dex before that but it’s inevitable
    Yup, not complicated at all...
    Let me explain Doom Cycle for you

    Push opponent to two bars of power whilst being at 3 bars yourself. Throw SP3. You’ll gain a fury buff. Opponent will be stunned after SP3 then do Medium Medium Light Light Light Medium Medium (the lights will power steal) you should be at an SP1 and then use it to take power from the opponent. You’ll be at an SP2 and they will be a little below 2 bars of power. either use SP2 or build up to an SP3 to gain another fury buff
    The difference between the doom cycle and Cgr's cycle is that you have complete control of the fight with doom, but you r restricted with cgr. Also cgr has like a million rotations that can be used for different things so it is definitely overwhelming when u start playing him. However Cgr's is still definitely useable (without dexing) in a lot of situations like unblockable specials which is a situation where people dont expect him to work
    https://youtu.be/FkUq1WlMTkM


    In this fight, you can make it so that in between Sp3 there is about 10 seconds until the next one, during those ten seconds they are power locked, heal blocked and fate sealed for all but one combo.

    what is that if not in almost complete control?
    Through the dupe. Its great, but not 100% uptime, so it is not complete control. It is some control though.

    CGR has the best damage in the game, but damage isnt everything. Like Sunspot is all damage with a little utility, but there is no world where he beats AA.
    No champion has 100% uptime on a counter for healing, power and buffs. That's like saying Doom isn't great because he doesn't have 100% uptime on his power steal

    Comparing sunspot to archangel for damage? Archangel has comparable, if not better damage.
    AA and Warlock have 100% uptime on healblock after about 10 seconds.
    Magik has 100% uptime on powerlock after the first sp2.
    Psylocke has 100% uptime on enervate with other power control.
    And yeah, i dont think anyone has the fate seal.


    It was more of a comparison of a champ thats mostly damage and one with good damage but also massive utility.
    Sorry I meant all at once, sorry if that wasn't clear enough. CGR has uptime on all of them, except one combo. I think that is nuts
    Its decent, but it is much less viable due to the time its not up. Additionally, you need the dupe. And i would say CMM and Corvus benefit way more from the dupe.

    I mean, i still think that CMM duped is better than CGR. But people aint ready for that conversation.
    CGR doesn’t need dupe.
  • SaltE_Wenis69SaltE_Wenis69 Posts: 1,992 ★★★★
    Hyperion
    Crcrcrc said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Any of you guys voting Hyperion I would be very interested to hear any thoughts behind it- any objective reasoning for why he's better than CGR

    The ability to quickly spam special attacks with no contact, easy access to DOT, easy access to buffs, tanky, and easy to special/heavy intercept with.
    He's just so much more practical than CGR
    Couldn't have said it better
  • MasterpuffMasterpuff Posts: 6,465 ★★★★★
    Hyperion
    BitterSteel said:

    My comment on what happens when CGR can't throw specials has been sent to moderation, but every champion has bad matchups. What about when quake is against true strike? Or doom against evaders.

    Don't take them to those matches. How often are you not able to throw specials? Not enough to say CGR doesn't get a place on your team

    Quake vs true strike? Thats so few lol

    And doom is fine for me with evaders, you just have to adjust. Parry, mllh.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,254 ★★★★★
    Cosmic Ghost Rider
    Masterpuff said:

    ChaosMax1012 said:

    Masterpuff said:

    ChaosMax1012 said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    JoshKosh557 said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    I have both. Hype is just so much more simple, practical and effective for majority of scenarios.

    People think CGR is complex and he really isn’t you just have to end combos with Lights Medium and before you throw and SP2 when the enemy stunned charge heavy real quick.

    Try not to dex before that but it’s inevitable
    Yup, not complicated at all...
    Let me explain Doom Cycle for you

    Push opponent to two bars of power whilst being at 3 bars yourself. Throw SP3. You’ll gain a fury buff. Opponent will be stunned after SP3 then do Medium Medium Light Light Light Medium Medium (the lights will power steal) you should be at an SP1 and then use it to take power from the opponent. You’ll be at an SP2 and they will be a little below 2 bars of power. either use SP2 or build up to an SP3 to gain another fury buff
    The difference between the doom cycle and Cgr's cycle is that you have complete control of the fight with doom, but you r restricted with cgr. Also cgr has like a million rotations that can be used for different things so it is definitely overwhelming when u start playing him. However Cgr's is still definitely useable (without dexing) in a lot of situations like unblockable specials which is a situation where people dont expect him to work
    https://youtu.be/FkUq1WlMTkM


    In this fight, you can make it so that in between Sp3 there is about 10 seconds until the next one, during those ten seconds they are power locked, heal blocked and fate sealed for all but one combo.

    what is that if not in almost complete control?
    Through the dupe. Its great, but not 100% uptime, so it is not complete control. It is some control though.

    CGR has the best damage in the game, but damage isnt everything. Like Sunspot is all damage with a little utility, but there is no world where he beats AA.
    CGR has insane damage and good utility, that’s what makes him different from your analogy.
    Good utility? It is decent. But nothing that good. In my opinion at least.
    Elaborate on how bleed/incinerate immunity, armor break, potent power gain, precision and cruelty, aptitude, isn’t that good.
    Armor break is not really a utility, and those buffs are powerful but none of them except maybe powergain are utility. Thats like calling countering buffed up a utility.

    Hype doesnt even have to land a basic hit on them to access his utility.
    Armour break itself isn't a utility. But when there are champions like guardian and killmonger and mysterio, then yeah it is.

    An armour break against them is basically an autoblock, damage back and mysterio counter
  • MasterpuffMasterpuff Posts: 6,465 ★★★★★
    Hyperion
    ChaosMax1012 said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    JoshKosh557 said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    I have both. Hype is just so much more simple, practical and effective for majority of scenarios.

    People think CGR is complex and he really isn’t you just have to end combos with Lights Medium and before you throw and SP2 when the enemy stunned charge heavy real quick.

    Try not to dex before that but it’s inevitable
    Yup, not complicated at all...
    Let me explain Doom Cycle for you

    Push opponent to two bars of power whilst being at 3 bars yourself. Throw SP3. You’ll gain a fury buff. Opponent will be stunned after SP3 then do Medium Medium Light Light Light Medium Medium (the lights will power steal) you should be at an SP1 and then use it to take power from the opponent. You’ll be at an SP2 and they will be a little below 2 bars of power. either use SP2 or build up to an SP3 to gain another fury buff
    The difference between the doom cycle and Cgr's cycle is that you have complete control of the fight with doom, but you r restricted with cgr. Also cgr has like a million rotations that can be used for different things so it is definitely overwhelming when u start playing him. However Cgr's is still definitely useable (without dexing) in a lot of situations like unblockable specials which is a situation where people dont expect him to work
    https://youtu.be/FkUq1WlMTkM


    In this fight, you can make it so that in between Sp3 there is about 10 seconds until the next one, during those ten seconds they are power locked, heal blocked and fate sealed for all but one combo.

    what is that if not in almost complete control?
    Through the dupe. Its great, but not 100% uptime, so it is not complete control. It is some control though.

    CGR has the best damage in the game, but damage isnt everything. Like Sunspot is all damage with a little utility, but there is no world where he beats AA.
    No champion has 100% uptime on a counter for healing, power and buffs. That's like saying Doom isn't great because he doesn't have 100% uptime on his power steal

    Comparing sunspot to archangel for damage? Archangel has comparable, if not better damage.
    AA and Warlock have 100% uptime on healblock after about 10 seconds.
    Magik has 100% uptime on powerlock after the first sp2.
    Psylocke has 100% uptime on enervate with other power control.
    And yeah, i dont think anyone has the fate seal.


    It was more of a comparison of a champ thats mostly damage and one with good damage but also massive utility.
    Sorry I meant all at once, sorry if that wasn't clear enough. CGR has uptime on all of them, except one combo. I think that is nuts
    Its decent, but it is much less viable due to the time its not up. Additionally, you need the dupe. And i would say CMM and Corvus benefit way more from the dupe.

    I mean, i still think that CMM duped is better than CGR. But people aint ready for that conversation.
    CGR doesn’t need dupe.
    He does for fateseal and healblock.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,254 ★★★★★
    Cosmic Ghost Rider
    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    My comment on what happens when CGR can't throw specials has been sent to moderation, but every champion has bad matchups. What about when quake is against true strike? Or doom against evaders.

    Don't take them to those matches. How often are you not able to throw specials? Not enough to say CGR doesn't get a place on your team

    Quake vs true strike? Thats so few lol

    And doom is fine for me with evaders, you just have to adjust. Parry, mllh.
    How often can you not throw specials though? There aren't many nodes that mess with that. And when there are, you dont need to use CGR!
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,254 ★★★★★
    Cosmic Ghost Rider
    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Masterpuff said:

    ChaosMax1012 said:

    Masterpuff said:

    ChaosMax1012 said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    JoshKosh557 said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    I have both. Hype is just so much more simple, practical and effective for majority of scenarios.

    People think CGR is complex and he really isn’t you just have to end combos with Lights Medium and before you throw and SP2 when the enemy stunned charge heavy real quick.

    Try not to dex before that but it’s inevitable
    Yup, not complicated at all...
    Let me explain Doom Cycle for you

    Push opponent to two bars of power whilst being at 3 bars yourself. Throw SP3. You’ll gain a fury buff. Opponent will be stunned after SP3 then do Medium Medium Light Light Light Medium Medium (the lights will power steal) you should be at an SP1 and then use it to take power from the opponent. You’ll be at an SP2 and they will be a little below 2 bars of power. either use SP2 or build up to an SP3 to gain another fury buff
    The difference between the doom cycle and Cgr's cycle is that you have complete control of the fight with doom, but you r restricted with cgr. Also cgr has like a million rotations that can be used for different things so it is definitely overwhelming when u start playing him. However Cgr's is still definitely useable (without dexing) in a lot of situations like unblockable specials which is a situation where people dont expect him to work
    https://youtu.be/FkUq1WlMTkM


    In this fight, you can make it so that in between Sp3 there is about 10 seconds until the next one, during those ten seconds they are power locked, heal blocked and fate sealed for all but one combo.

    what is that if not in almost complete control?
    Through the dupe. Its great, but not 100% uptime, so it is not complete control. It is some control though.

    CGR has the best damage in the game, but damage isnt everything. Like Sunspot is all damage with a little utility, but there is no world where he beats AA.
    CGR has insane damage and good utility, that’s what makes him different from your analogy.
    Good utility? It is decent. But nothing that good. In my opinion at least.
    Elaborate on how bleed/incinerate immunity, armor break, potent power gain, precision and cruelty, aptitude, isn’t that good.
    Armor break is not really a utility, and those buffs are powerful but none of them except maybe powergain are utility. Thats like calling countering buffed up a utility.

    Hype doesnt even have to land a basic hit on them to access his utility.
    Armour break itself isn't a utility. But when there are champions like guardian and killmonger and mysterio, then yeah it is.

    An armour break against them is basically an autoblock, damage back and mysterio counter
    Symbiote spiderman has armor break, is it a utility?

    Sym spidey>CGR?

    Sure its a utility, but it is nothing that stands out or is unique in any way. Plus Hype has them too.
    Yeah, sym spidey has utility against killmonger, if you wanted to use him there it would work. There are better options but that is utility.

    CGR has a much more accessible armour break than Hyp. Hyp has that utility but only on sp2. CGR applies it at the start of the fight permanently against villians, and very regularly outside
  • SaltE_Wenis69SaltE_Wenis69 Posts: 1,992 ★★★★
    Hyperion
    BitterSteel said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Masterpuff said:

    ChaosMax1012 said:

    Masterpuff said:

    ChaosMax1012 said:

    Masterpuff said:

    BitterSteel said:

    JoshKosh557 said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    SWORD78 said:

    Kill_Grey said:

    I have both. Hype is just so much more simple, practical and effective for majority of scenarios.

    People think CGR is complex and he really isn’t you just have to end combos with Lights Medium and before you throw and SP2 when the enemy stunned charge heavy real quick.

    Try not to dex before that but it’s inevitable
    Yup, not complicated at all...
    Let me explain Doom Cycle for you

    Push opponent to two bars of power whilst being at 3 bars yourself. Throw SP3. You’ll gain a fury buff. Opponent will be stunned after SP3 then do Medium Medium Light Light Light Medium Medium (the lights will power steal) you should be at an SP1 and then use it to take power from the opponent. You’ll be at an SP2 and they will be a little below 2 bars of power. either use SP2 or build up to an SP3 to gain another fury buff
    The difference between the doom cycle and Cgr's cycle is that you have complete control of the fight with doom, but you r restricted with cgr. Also cgr has like a million rotations that can be used for different things so it is definitely overwhelming when u start playing him. However Cgr's is still definitely useable (without dexing) in a lot of situations like unblockable specials which is a situation where people dont expect him to work
    https://youtu.be/FkUq1WlMTkM


    In this fight, you can make it so that in between Sp3 there is about 10 seconds until the next one, during those ten seconds they are power locked, heal blocked and fate sealed for all but one combo.

    what is that if not in almost complete control?
    Through the dupe. Its great, but not 100% uptime, so it is not complete control. It is some control though.

    CGR has the best damage in the game, but damage isnt everything. Like Sunspot is all damage with a little utility, but there is no world where he beats AA.
    CGR has insane damage and good utility, that’s what makes him different from your analogy.
    Good utility? It is decent. But nothing that good. In my opinion at least.
    Elaborate on how bleed/incinerate immunity, armor break, potent power gain, precision and cruelty, aptitude, isn’t that good.
    Armor break is not really a utility, and those buffs are powerful but none of them except maybe powergain are utility. Thats like calling countering buffed up a utility.

    Hype doesnt even have to land a basic hit on them to access his utility.
    Armour break itself isn't a utility. But when there are champions like guardian and killmonger and mysterio, then yeah it is.

    An armour break against them is basically an autoblock, damage back and mysterio counter
    Symbiote spiderman has armor break, is it a utility?

    Sym spidey>CGR?

    Sure its a utility, but it is nothing that stands out or is unique in any way. Plus Hype has them too.
    Yeah, sym spidey has utility against killmonger, if you wanted to use him there it would work. There are better options but that is utility.

    CGR has a much more accessible armour break than Hyp. Hyp has that utility but only on sp2. CGR applies it at the start of the fight permanently against villians, and very regularly outside
    So thats why hes better than hype? Cuz he has better armor breaks XDDDDDD.
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