Please reconsider the addition of True Focus on all boss island defenders

thanks4playingthanks4playing Posts: 569 ★★★
edited July 21 in Suggestions and Requests
This post is a sincere plea to reconsider the addition of True Focus on all of the defenders on the boss island for AW. The first part of the post is just an itemized list as to why I think this is a bad idea for the game in general. The second part is a personal anecdote.

There are at least 5 reasons why I find the addition of the True Focus node as lazy and cheap, and should be changed based on principle:
1. AW is already very stressful and resource consuming for most of the community. If the general consensus is that AW was too easy and not challenging enough, then the True Focus addition would at least cohere with what the community has been expressing. But the community has been rather clear that AW is stressful. So this addition just looks like a blatant unit grab, while ignoring what the community has been saying.

2. There are plenty of ways to implement a counter against Ghost and Quake that are more creative and thoughtful, and that does not outright preclude their viability. For instance, a *modification* of certain nodes such as cascading failure, passive power gain, or hurt locker could make Ghost/Quake not the best option. At the same time, players can still use them *as they were originally designed*, but it will require some adjustment.

3. The problem is not that Quake/Ghost are too OP, but that there are too many useless champs. Thus, many people have thin rosters and have to overly rely on Quake/Ghost. There needs to be significantly less useless champs in the overall champ pool. Until then, hold off on these cheap/thoughtless counters. There are too many useless champs being introduced and unsuccessful buffs. While I like the direction that the buff program is heading, I don't believe we're at a point where the overall champ pool is strong.

4. Is it necessary that every defender on the boss island has True Focus? This just seems excessive. If maybe one or two defender(s) had True Focus, then that would be more reasonable.

5. Quake, Ghost, Tigra, and other champs are a bit different because they do require a ton of practice/research and at least some skill. Every player who has mastered these champs has put in a lot of research and practice. So unlike other "nerfs" or counters to other champs, this one hurts a bit more because it's not just simply a matter of resources spent, but all of the time that has been put into practice and research. Just search on YT the amount of "how to" guides on these champs. These champs have so much more attention not simply because they are effective, but because they require more practice and explanation.

Below is an anecdote that might represent how other players are feeling:
This is the kind of change that made me quit for 3-4 years and will probably make me quit again, but this time for good. Please hear me out for a second. I don't get good luck with my pulls, probably like most players here. Out of my 13 6 stars, none is viable as an AW attacker.

But I always tried to be thankful b/c I have a 5 star Quake. I spent a lot of time researching and practicing how to perfect her. And I finally got her down and I use her very effectively in AW. But obviously there are Quake counters in AWD, forcing me to use other champs, all of whom I do not have. So AW has always been challenging b/c i didn't have the best counters, but also fun b/c I at least had Quake.

Finally this past week, I felt even more thankful b/c i pulled Tigra and Ghost as 5 stars! I've been hunting Ghost for awhile, opening nothing but Tech/Cosmic dual crystals. This past week, I've been doing a lot of research and practicing both of these champs. These pulls have given me a renewed desire to stay engaged in the game. More specifically, I've been practicing how to use Ghost without Wasp, being able to land that sp2 so that all of it crits. This learning process has been fun and I keep telling myself that it will be well worth it, esp. in AW.

Now I hear the news of this True Focus node, which significantly reduces the efficacy of Ghost and Quake (and as a result, Tigra and others). While I'm still thankful that i can use them in other content, let's be honest: only one content excites me, and that's AW. Only one content do I really need the best of the best. If they implemented True Focus in AQ, arena, EQ, and SQ combined, then I wouldn't really mind. AW is the only content that I really care about.
Post edited by Kabam Zibiit on

Comments

  • TeamSoCoTeamSoCo Posts: 52
    I don’t see how basically banning champs from AW makes the game mode better.
  • shinchan2810shinchan2810 Posts: 23
    TeamSoCo said:

    I don’t see how basically banning champs from AW makes the game mode better.

    Lol truth revealed.....respect man🤠😂......those players who are not able to use them or are defeated coz there bosses in wars got solod by ghost or quake are pissed off....lmao
  • TeamSoCoTeamSoCo Posts: 52

    TeamSoCo said:

    I don’t see how basically banning champs from AW makes the game mode better.

    Lol truth revealed.....respect man🤠😂......those players who are not able to use them or are defeated coz there bosses in wars got solod by ghost or quake are pissed off....lmao
    Lol yeah so many people get salty about that stuff. I mean almost every champ they release now can’t be quaked or ghosted just get smarter with ur placements. Hazard shift is going to be brutal now. Guess just boost as much as u can with red hulk and hope for the best.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,347 ★★★★★
    TeamSoCo said:

    TeamSoCo said:

    I don’t see how basically banning champs from AW makes the game mode better.

    Lol truth revealed.....respect man🤠😂......those players who are not able to use them or are defeated coz there bosses in wars got solod by ghost or quake are pissed off....lmao
    Lol yeah so many people get salty about that stuff. I mean almost every champ they release now can’t be quaked or ghosted just get smarter with ur placements. Hazard shift is going to be brutal now. Guess just boost as much as u can with red hulk and hope for the best.
    That's what I do anyway. Boost Red hulk and get 10 heat charges before 2 combo ends, and start pummeling the defenders.
  • MkkalMkkal Posts: 20
    For the people who are in favor of the True Focus node, Quake and Ghost are not the reason your defense don't get you kills, nor they're the reason you lose at war, it simply come down to one fact, that fact is that you're bad at the game and your defense is weak.
  • FiiNCHFiiNCH Posts: 926 ★★★★
    Disagree with points 1 and 3.

    Not using ghost and quake doesn’t make AW more stressful IMO . Besides this is just on the boss island.

    And to point 3, there are tons of viable AW attackers so this point is a bit ridiculous. I’m in tier 3 AW and I haven’t ran ghost or quake for the last 2 seasons.

    I agree with points 2 & 4, they’re fair enough.

    Point 5 is irrelevant.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 13,807 ★★★★★
    TeamSoCo said:

    I don’t see how basically banning champs from AW makes the game mode better.

    Banning Quake and Ghost make the war a more even match. Makes it too easy and leads to a lot more ties at the top. Being able to ban certain champs at the start of a match would be awesome. The ban should only be for Boss Island and that's it.
  • LuisBvvLuisBvv Posts: 139 ★★
    Please reconsider all the heal block added to the map
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 946 ★★★★
    xNig said:

    I, for one, am happy that Ghost and Quake are getting the nerf treatment. Saves me a lot of headache making my placement Quake and Ghost proof.

    But I’m also unhappy that my Tigra and Elsa are made to be collateral damage in the process of it.

    This is my exact take as well. No problems with them effectively removing Quake and Ghost from Boss Island, but bummed that I won’t have Elsa as a great Thing counter or Silver Surfer with safe, easy access to armor breaks.

    Totally cool with it as a stop-gap for now, but I hope this isn’t the final iteration of the plan.
  • montiburns1montiburns1 Posts: 43
    kabam miike be like: this is what players asked for.

    The players: No one asked for this vz
  • Colinwhitworth69Colinwhitworth69 Posts: 3,681 ★★★★★
    IMO too many players take AW way too seriously.

    I would change AW by removing the ability to use potions, boosts, and revives. Make it a game mode that is skill only. Unit Man not allowed.

    As far as boss island goes, I am fine with the change. Same rules for everyone.
  • thanks4playingthanks4playing Posts: 569 ★★★


    1. AW is already very stressful and resource consuming for most of the community. If the general consensus is that AW was too easy and not challenging enough, then the True Focus addition would at least cohere with what the community has been expressing. But the community has been rather clear that AW is stressful. So this addition just looks like a blatant unit grab, while ignoring what the community has been saying.

    War is stressful because it is too easy. When wars come down to less than 5 kills, it is immensely stressful. But when you have wars with 15-20 deaths, a loss is no longer pinned on one person who gave up a death. Stressful is not the opposite of easy.

    Since my original post, I've learned that this is the case for higher tier alliances. But having said that, we are mixing up who is the community. Your perspective is more representative of master level alliances. Most players are in platinum and gold (and maybe below), and wars being too easy is not the case. There are a lot of deaths. So I'm not disagreeing with you as much as recognizing that there is diversity in the community. There are more players in the community that I'm speaking of, but probably more revenue generated from the community that are you speaking of.



    2. There are plenty of ways to implement a counter against Ghost and Quake that are more creative and thoughtful, and that does not outright preclude their viability. For instance, a *modification* of certain nodes such as cascading failure, passive power gain, or hurt locker could make Ghost/Quake not the best option. At the same time, players can still use them *as they were originally designed*, but it will require some adjustment.

    Yes, I agree there are many more ways to implement a counter against ghost and quake. But the issue here is that stopping ghost and quake from being so prominent is not a bad thing. They do make war a lot easier than if you don’t use them, and that’s not necessarily a good thing. It makes alliances think, “ok what’s the best way for us to get through this node… quake and ghost” and it makes war boring when you know that those two champions should be on your team nearly every war. It makes war stale and repetitive. Having something that stops quake and ghost being used is a good thing.



    I think this again is a difference between the levels of AW alliances that we are both in. I've been to 3 difference g1-p3 alliances, and I'd say that about half (maybe more) do not know how to ghost/quake well.



    3. The problem is not that Quake/Ghost are too OP, but that there are too many useless champs. Thus, many people have thin rosters and have to overly rely on Quake/Ghost. There needs to be significantly less useless champs in the overall champ pool. Until then, hold off on these cheap/thoughtless counters. There are too many useless champs being introduced and unsuccessful buffs. While I like the direction that the buff program is heading, I don't believe we're at a point where the overall champ pool is strong.

    I really strongly disagree with this, the problem most definitely is that quake and ghost are too OP, they’re a mile ahead of what the next best champions can do. Quake especially. If kabam buffed every single champ in the game, then buffed them once more, they still wouldn’t hold a candle to quake. Quake and ghost don’t run rampant through AW because you have a DPXF, they run rampant because they’re damn good.

    Regardless, you’re wanting war to be less stressful, yet you think the answer is better attackers to choose from. That would make deaths go down, and war would be more stressful again.



    We will have to agree to disagree on this one. I used to run Quake for path 9 all the time with encroaching stun and window of opp stun. But once Diablo got buffed, I've been preferring to use him there. When facing someone like Havok, I used to just Quake and dance around the passive PG; but since the Ultron buff, I use him there instead. And going back to #2, if you creatively add nodes that hamper (but not preclude) the efficacy of Quake/Ghost, then there will be more instances where other champs will be preferred while stay making Quake/Ghost still viable.

    But I also think that this might be a difference in alliance level/roster development. I don't want to overly rely on Quake/Ghost, and I'm always looking for other options. But my pulls have been horrible (b/c the champ pool itself is so imbalanced). I'd love to use Human Torch against mystics, NF for evaders, Guardian for Apoc, etc. But I don't have those champs.




    4. Is it necessary that every defender on the boss island has True Focus? This just seems excessive. If maybe one or two defender(s) had True Focus, then that would be more reasonable.

    The boss has true strike now, but that doesn’t stop quake dominating. And the changes only propose a counter to quake and ghost on boss island, which means you can still use them to clear paths and middle mini bosses. I think that’s a fair compromise, the issue is true focus rules out a lot of other champions on boss island that aren’t as good as quake and ghost.

    If only a couple fights had this node, I can guarantee it’s all but certain quake and ghost would continue to dominate. They will still be useful in war as the changes currently are, but they won’t dominate.



    This difference of opinion might also be because of different AW tiers. But most of the deaths come from boss island for us. So Quake "dominating" in the regular paths doesn't really say much.




    5. Quake, Ghost, Tigra, and other champs are a bit different because they do require a ton of practice/research and at least some skill. Every player who has mastered these champs has put in a lot of research and practice. So unlike other "nerfs" or counters to other champs, this one hurts a bit more because it's not just simply a matter of resources spent, but all of the time that has been put into practice and research. Just search on YT the amount of "how to" guides on these champs. These champs have so much more attention not simply because they are effective, but because they require more practice and explanation.

    Yep, I agree with this one mostly. It does hurt to get your top skill-intensive champs countered. Not being able to use them can suck, especially as like you say, war is your top piece of content. And same with me, I love war and I used quake constantly up until last season when I decided to stop using her because I was getting bored. Quake and ghost are powerful, and too powerful because they’re ripping through defences easily. They can however still be used elsewhere, in all other game modes. And unfortunately even though you like AW the most, it’s just how the cookie crumbles that it’s your favourite mode. Someone who loved SQ may have an equal bone to pick if their favourite champs were countered there.

    Like I said before, the issue is that the counter is blindly ripping apart other champions who aren’t as OP as quake and ghost, other skill-intensive champs like Tigra, prof X and Mr Negative. And other fun champs like surfer, Elsa, spider Gwen, starky etc. And the reason that I’m saying it’s unfair for these champions, but not for ghost and quake (as I can already see people saying well why is it ok to counter quake and ghost, but not them, you can still use them elsewhere too), is that this true focus is designed specifically for quake and ghost, kabam literally confirm it. So you shouldn’t accidentally counter other champs while countering them. It’s just not right.




    The more I'm learning about the perspectives of master level players, I think there's a wide gap in AW experience (although the chat group that I'm in with master players does not like this change either, but mostly for reasons 2 and 5). Perhaps these changes should just be applied to master alliances? I can confidently say that in g1-p3 alliances, AW is stressful b/c there are too many deaths, not everyone has a developed roster, and a significant amount of the players cannot ghost/quake well.
  • JadedJaded Posts: 4,424 ★★★★★

    IMO too many players take AW way too seriously.

    I would change AW by removing the ability to use potions, boosts, and revives. Make it a game mode that is skill only. Unit Man not allowed.

    As far as boss island goes, I am fine with the change. Same rules for everyone.

    They literally give free revives and pots in the stores. I haven’t spent a cent/unit on a revive or health pot in years. Definitely not “unitman” because we can use items.

  • thanks4playingthanks4playing Posts: 569 ★★★
    edited July 21
    EDIT: sorry for the spam. I didn't realize that my original response actually went through. This one is better formatted but essentially a duplicate. I can't delete it so I guess it's stuck here.

    The more I'm learning about the perspectives of master level players, I think there's a wide gap in AW experience (although in the chat room I'm in with master players, they overall do not like the change for mostly reasons #2 and 5). Perhaps these changes should just be applied to master alliances? I can confidently say that even in g1-p3 alliances, AW is stressful b/c there are a lot of deaths, not everyone has a developed roster, and a significant amount of the players cannot ghost/quake well.

    (Sorry, I might have botched the quoting HTML so I'm going to tag you manually just in case: @BitterSteel )


    1. AW is already very stressful and resource consuming for most of the community. If the general consensus is that AW was too easy and not challenging enough, then the True Focus addition would at least cohere with what the community has been expressing. But the community has been rather clear that AW is stressful. So this addition just looks like a blatant unit grab, while ignoring what the community has been saying.

    War is stressful because it is too easy. When wars come down to less than 5 kills, it is immensely stressful. But when you have wars with 15-20 deaths, a loss is no longer pinned on one person who gave up a death. Stressful is not the opposite of easy.
    Since my original post, I've learned that this is the case. But having said that, we are mixing up who is the community. Your perspective is more representative of master level alliances. Most players are in platinum and gold (and maybe below), and wars being too easy is not the case. There are a lot of deaths. So I'm not disagreeing with you as much as recognizing that there is diversity in the community. There are more players in the community that I'm speaking of, but probably more revenue generated from the community that are you speaking of.



    2. There are plenty of ways to implement a counter against Ghost and Quake that are more creative and thoughtful, and that does not outright preclude their viability. For instance, a *modification* of certain nodes such as cascading failure, passive power gain, or hurt locker could make Ghost/Quake not the best option. At the same time, players can still use them *as they were originally designed*, but it will require some adjustment.

    Yes, I agree there are many more ways to implement a counter against ghost and quake. But the issue here is that stopping ghost and quake from being so prominent is not a bad thing. They do make war a lot easier than if you don’t use them, and that’s not necessarily a good thing. It makes alliances think, “ok what’s the best way for us to get through this node… quake and ghost” and it makes war boring when you know that those two champions should be on your team nearly every war. It makes war stale and repetitive. Having something that stops quake and ghost being used is a good thing.
    I think this again is a difference between the levels of AW alliances that we are both in. I've been to 3 difference g1-p3 alliances recently, and I'd say that probably half (maybe more) do not know how to ghost/quake well.



    3. The problem is not that Quake/Ghost are too OP, but that there are too many useless champs. Thus, many people have thin rosters and have to overly rely on Quake/Ghost. There needs to be significantly less useless champs in the overall champ pool. Until then, hold off on these cheap/thoughtless counters. There are too many useless champs being introduced and unsuccessful buffs. While I like the direction that the buff program is heading, I don't believe we're at a point where the overall champ pool is strong.

    I really strongly disagree with this, the problem most definitely is that quake and ghost are too OP, they’re a mile ahead of what the next best champions can do. Quake especially. If kabam buffed every single champ in the game, then buffed them once more, they still wouldn’t hold a candle to quake. Quake and ghost don’t run rampant through AW because you have a DPXF, they run rampant because they’re damn good.

    Regardless, you’re wanting war to be less stressful, yet you think the answer is better attackers to choose from. That would make deaths go down, and war would be more stressful again.

    We will have to agree to disagree on this one. I used to run Quake in path 9 all the time with encroaching stun and window of opp stun. But once Diablo got buffed, I've been preferring to use him there. Against Havok, I'd use Quake but dance around the passive PG, but once Ultron got buffed, he became my preferred choice. And going back to #2, if you creatively add nodes that hamper (but not preclude) the efficacy of Quake/Ghost, then there will be more instances where other champs will be preferred.

    But I also think that this might be a difference in alliance level/roster development. I don't want to overly rely on Quake/Ghost, and I'm always looking for other options. But my pulls have been horrible (b/c the champ pool itself is so imbalanced). I'd love to use Human Torch against mystics, NF for evaders, Guardian for Apoc, etc. But I simply don't have those champs.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 5,929 ★★★★★
    @thanks4playing I’ll reply here to avoid confusion with the formatting. I think you’re arguing your point well and thanks for the well thought out response!

    I do think this is a massive case of different progression in the game and levels of playing. I’m not in masters myself, I don’t have the time for that, (or the units) but I’m in a P3 alliance. I think stopping quake and ghost there is important too. So many times I set a defence and someone will take quake and ghost and run through it. You’re excited to try a new defender somewhere and then quake just waltzes through.

    Having them countered if only on boss island is a good compromise. I’m interested in your idea for only masters alliances. But honestly I don’t think it’s wide reaching enough, as I said, I’m in p3 and you only need one or two members in a battle group to be good with quake or ghost to walk through boss island. You say half don’t know how to ghost or quake, but it’s enough for one or two to be able to.

    The issue with adding nodes that hamper but not preclude quake and ghost is that there’s a knock on effect that will make other champions worse too, and I think that’s a bad thing. If you want to counter quake and ghost, you shouldn’t counter other champs as well. That’s part of the issue with the true focus countering Elsa, tigra, negative, prof X etc.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 5,929 ★★★★★

    TeamSoCo said:

    I don’t see how basically banning champs from AW makes the game mode better.

    Banning Quake and Ghost make the war a more even match. Makes it too easy and leads to a lot more ties at the top. Being able to ban certain champs at the start of a match would be awesome. The ban should only be for Boss Island and that's it.
    I had an idea that you get Attacker bans for Boss island. You can still use banned champs, but if you do use those champs for boss island you don’t get any points.

    You can use the champ if you have no other option to get through the fight so you can take later fights in boss island down. But if you want points from it, then you have to adhere to the ban. And you can still use the banned champ on your path to clear.

    Potential secondary points to this idea is that you can only ban the same champ 3-6 times per season and you have 3-5 bans per war. (Those numbers are obviously up for debate what would be the best). I think that inspires some tactics. Say you had 3 bans and could only ban the same champ 6 times. Do you place Apoc as a boss and ban ghost, tigra and guardian for 6 wars of the season, and then next 6 wars place a Doom and ban Torch, void and Ibom for example. And taking that to the next step, whole boss islands could be constructed that the champs you banned would have countered.

    The ban takes place either during placement or even before matchmaking (to avoid knowing who you match with, as there are ways to find out who you’re facing).

    Maybe there’s even a UI upgrade so you can decide which champs you ban all in one go for the season, similar to AQ where you can decide what maps and globals you face. Just to make life easy for officers.

  • BigManOnCampusBigManOnCampus Posts: 215 ★★

    TeamSoCo said:

    I don’t see how basically banning champs from AW makes the game mode better.

    Lol truth revealed.....respect man🤠😂......those players who are not able to use them or are defeated coz there bosses in wars got solod by ghost or quake are pissed off....lmao
    well it's a good thing kabam putting a stop to it :D
  • thanks4playingthanks4playing Posts: 569 ★★★
    edited July 21

    @thanks4playing I’ll reply here to avoid confusion with the formatting. I think you’re arguing your point well and thanks for the well thought out response!

    I do think this is a massive case of different progression in the game and levels of playing. I’m not in masters myself, I don’t have the time for that, (or the units) but I’m in a P3 alliance. I think stopping quake and ghost there is important too. So many times I set a defence and someone will take quake and ghost and run through it. You’re excited to try a new defender somewhere and then quake just waltzes through.

    I think the better solution, which is more long term and requires more thinking, is to introduce/buff champs that have the mechanics to stop quake/ghost. As people have been saying, this has been an issue that has been going on for awhile. And to release 2 champs per month and 3 buffs per month, there was ample opportunity to release champs that would become defenders that you cannot simply quake or ghost.


    Having them countered if only on boss island is a good compromise. I’m interested in your idea for only masters alliances. But honestly I don’t think it’s wide reaching enough, as I said, I’m in p3 and you only need one or two members in a battle group to be good with quake or ghost to walk through boss island. You say half don’t know how to ghost or quake, but it’s enough for one or two to be able to.

    This is true. I was thinking of mentioning that another solution that would have been better was to redesign the map, which would prevent players from being able to quake/ghost your way through the island. The reason why I mentioned master alliances is because their rosters are already diverse/established and most players can quake/ghost. So it does seem excessive for players to quake/ghost their way in those tiers.


    The issue with adding nodes that hamper but not preclude quake and ghost is that there’s a knock on effect that will make other champions worse too, and I think that’s a bad thing. If you want to counter quake and ghost, you shouldn’t counter other champs as well. That’s part of the issue with the true focus countering Elsa, tigra, negative, prof X etc.

    I think there is a creative way. In addition to releasing/buffing better defenders and redesigning the map (and also your comment about attacker bans), a passive PG node would make it difficult to quake, esp. against someone like DM or Hype. Or a modification to cascading failure or prevent damage from crits or defender can only receive damage from DOT: all of these would allow someone like Tigra to be viable even though it would hamper Ghost; Ghost players would have to rely on furies or something else or would probably have to bring a different option.

    The point is that a blanket True Strike is so lazy and there are unintended side effects that makes the viable champ pool even lower. So the irony is that they are trying to counter Ghost and Quake so that there are more attackers, but then you eliminate the viability of Tigra, Mr. Neg, Elsa, etc.--all of whom are somewhat new.

    I would recommend having one boss that has True Strike, another that has a passive PG, another that has a Crit counter, etc. And if they commit to having more champs that can counter Quake/Ghost, then this imbalance will more creatively and organically go away, rather than this abrupt change that will cause other problems.
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