Apoc vs haunted. Nerfed(as intended) or bugged?

So you want to rank down one to the best champions in the game because of one node?

I don't see how this interaction isn't working as intended.

No… I clearly asked if I could get the option the next time! There is a clear distinction between that and, saying I want to rank down a champ that I ranked prior to a node being instituted. That makes zero sense. No one could rank a champ based on how they counter or don’t counter a node they don’t know will exist in the future.

The node could work as intended, and would then be another very poorly worded description. Simply tried the node with him based on THEIR description! Which is as a Matter of UNDENIABLE fact, either an erroneously worded description or not functioning properly.. these are literally the only two options

And with the games recent mechanics issues I thought I’d ask. And it probably shouldn’t really matter how much of a Richard I was when asking. My point is still valid regardless of how over the top I phrased it

So you want to rank down one to the best champions in the game because of one node?

I don't see how this interaction isn't working as intended.
No… I clearly asked if I could get the option the next time! There is a clear distinction between that and, saying I want to rank down a champ that I ranked prior to a node being instituted. That makes zero sense. No one could rank a champ based on how they counter or don’t counter a node they don’t know will exist in the future.

The node could work as intended, and would then be another very poorly worded description. Simply tried the node with him based on THEIR description! Which is as a Matter of UNDENIABLE fact, either an erroneously worded description or not functioning properly.. these are literally the only two options

And with the games recent mechanics issues I thought I’d ask. And it probably shouldn’t really matter how much of a Richard I was when asking. My point is still valid regardless of how over the top I phrased it

It is poorly worded, I agree. But the last paragraph here is extremely incorrect. How you phrase things matters, how you speak to people matters. You could be 100% correct about something but if you sound rude or crass, people won’t listen to or respect you.

People on the forums respect DNA3000 not only because he crunches numbers, but because he lays out information in a patient and easy to understand manner. Delivery is just as important as content.

Friendly life lesson from a stranger online.

This content has been removed.

It is poorly worded, I agree. But the last paragraph here is extremely incorrect. How you phrase things matters, how you speak to people matters. You could be 100% correct about something but if you sound rude or crass, people won’t listen to or respect you.

People on the forums respect DNA3000 not only because he crunches numbers, but because he lays out information in a patient and easy to understand manner. Delivery is just as important as content.

Friendly life lesson from a stranger online.
No it isn’t wrong… it shouldn’t matter how I phrase a question to KABAM and how you and others on the forums respond. I posted what I posted … I didn’t speak to you or any other user that way!!! You do understand the huge distinction between the two

Second, why they hell do I care how dna3000 talks to people????

I’m not a “guardian “ super user on the forums, nor does it fall on me to represent Kabam

In case You aren’t getting the dynamic here.. I’m the customer who’s asking for clarification about their product. It’s on them as a company to be clear with their customers! I don’t owe them any explanations I pay them not the other way around.

Eb0ny-O-M4w

Apocalypse wasn't nerfed or changed in any way

SwarmOfRavens

Seems to be getting off point.
But although, yes, “counter” and “workaround” are different things, they aren’t different in how Dissapointed is describing them.

Whether a champ is bleed immune, takes 90% less damage from Bleed, or shrugs off Bleed, all those are DESIGNED that way, with that in mind.

I’d instead define “workaround” as having to use something/someone in order to get around a node or situation which is NOT behaving as intended. Working around a bug, etc.
This is the point I was trying to make, just because a champ reduces the potency of a node doesn't make them a workaround.

OR only reduces bleed by 90% so following his logic he wasn't designed as a counter. Even though a large part of his kit says otherwise.
Coagulate Mastery says hi. Try using OR against Biohazard nodes in Act 6/7 and you will see that he isn't a counter for them. He gets melted. With 1 point in Coagulate though, he is a viable counter.
I've used him for plenty biohazard nodes in act 6 and I don't have a single point in Coagulate.
Make contact to gain bleed>hit block to build spores> heal any health loss with sp3.

Do you realise how silly your definitions are, you're arguing that omega red isn't a bleed counter without coagulate.

I'm guessing he's also not a counter against 100% bleed nodes because I lose 10% health (that can easily be healed back)
Omega Red isn't a bleed counter against biohazard opponents with big attack values and that's not debatable (without 1 point in coagulate of course). The bleed is far more powerful than the regeneration from Willpower. So I guess you are making some silly statements right now
Well, since you've said it's not debatable I guess there's nothing I can do.
Have a nice day.
If you don't know that 200 bleed damage is more than 100 regeneration then I can't help you. It's simple logic.
Disagree as many times as you want lol

Sir, I never mentioned willpower healing. You're the one that inserted it into the discussion.
Read back, I literally don't say anything about willpower or 100 regeneration so I'm not sure why you're fixated on it. You've lost the plot yet talking about simple logic.

Apocalypse wasn't nerfed or changed in any way

If he’s supposed to suppress the ability to purify, and PURIFY still works. His ability has been nerfed (because it no longer functions as described)

If change the way nodes interact with the champ or the champ himself it has no meaningful distinction as the result is the same

His ability no longer does it’s function

It is poorly worded, I agree. But the last paragraph here is extremely incorrect. How you phrase things matters, how you speak to people matters. You could be 100% correct about something but if you sound rude or crass, people won’t listen to or respect you.

People on the forums respect DNA3000 not only because he crunches numbers, but because he lays out information in a patient and easy to understand manner. Delivery is just as important as content.

Friendly life lesson from a stranger online.
No it isn’t wrong… it shouldn’t matter how I phrase a question to KABAM and how you and others on the forums respond. I posted what I posted … I didn’t speak to you or any other user that way!!! You do understand the huge distinction between the two

Second, why they hell do I care how dna3000 talks to people????

I’m not a “guardian “ super user on the forums, nor does it fall on me to represent Kabam

In case You aren’t getting the dynamic here.. I’m the customer who’s asking for clarification about their product. It’s on them as a company to be clear with their customers! I don’t owe them any explanations I pay them not the other way around.
My guy, I didn’t even say you were being disrespectful or anything. In fact, I agreed with you twice in this thread that your position on the wording of the node is correct. All I told you is delivery matters because it changes how people respond to you. You are more likely to get what you want out of an interaction if people like and respect you and don’t hate every second they are engaged with you.

That being said, I’ll absolutely call you disrespectful after this tantrum. Treat people like people, regardless of which side of a cash register you are on. I genuinely hope you learn this lesson sooner than later, it will save you a lot of grief later in life.

Could someone from @kabam please respond and close the thread, since they all get sidetracked and turn so far off topic?

It really shouldn’t be a hard thing to answer, or make do many people contentious.

As intended or incorrectly phrased doesn’t feel like a controversial topic

@Wicket329

Anywhere else that would be punishable by law, but in the game you agree to arbitration and have zero legal rights of protection. That’s just a fact. Kabam could literally sell you anything and change it in any way they see fit after your purchase and you could do nothing. and if you send the right ticket… they’ll tell you that

I am literally a lawyer and can promise you that’s not how arbitration or anything works.

@Wicket329

Anywhere else that would be punishable by law, but in the game you agree to arbitration and have zero legal rights of protection. That’s just a fact. Kabam could literally sell you anything and change it in any way they see fit after your purchase and you could do nothing. and if you send the right ticket… they’ll tell you that
I am literally a lawyer and can promise you that’s not how arbitration or anything works.

Lmao… if you’re literally a lawyer than you didn’t read kabams TOS that you agreed to

If you really want to have this debate in the forums let me know

I’ll provide the tos screenshots about valueless items ( something a lawyer should understand)

And the rules governing their arbitration, which you also agreed to.

Which also only allows for you to have any recourse if they have violated those specific terms

@Wicket329

Anywhere else that would be punishable by law, but in the game you agree to arbitration and have zero legal rights of protection. That’s just a fact. Kabam could literally sell you anything and change it in any way they see fit after your purchase and you could do nothing. and if you send the right ticket… they’ll tell you that
I am literally a lawyer and can promise you that’s not how arbitration or anything works.
Lmao… if you’re literally a lawyer than you didn’t read kabams TOS that you agreed to

I handle arbitrations regularly, both on the side of litigants and from the side of the arbitrator. I understand how arbitration works intimately. You, on the other hand, clearly do not if you believe you waive all legal protections. And you can’t afford my rate to explain it to you.

Corkscrew

Apocalypse wasn't nerfed or changed in any way
If he’s supposed to suppress the ability to purify, and PURIFY still works. His ability has been nerfed (because it no longer functions as described)

If change the way nodes interact with the champ or the champ himself it has no meaningful distinction as the result is the same

His ability no longer does it’s function

Has his ability to function changed on any existing nodes? If it hasn't then he hasn't been nerfed.

This is a NEW node that could be worded more clearly... i.e. Falter AND Purify are not subject to ability accuracy modification. Given that Kabam often come in and clean up descriptions to character abilities and nodes after the fact - I would hope they do the same here. Obviously, it would be better if they didn't have to make multiple attempts, but given the challenge for which this was introduced, it seems clear what their intent was.

@Corkscrew

You realize you’re just speculating? Which is why I asked. I think it’s most likely as intended as well. However; neither of us know, which is why I asked for clarity… any node in use now, could be used in the future.

https://youtu.be/h1V-C9m-Jvg

Seems to be getting off point.
But although, yes, “counter” and “workaround” are different things, they aren’t different in how Dissapointed is describing them.

Whether a champ is bleed immune, takes 90% less damage from Bleed, or shrugs off Bleed, all those are DESIGNED that way, with that in mind.

I’d instead define “workaround” as having to use something/someone in order to get around a node or situation which is NOT behaving as intended. Working around a bug, etc.
This is the point I was trying to make, just because a champ reduces the potency of a node doesn't make them a workaround.

OR only reduces bleed by 90% so following his logic he wasn't designed as a counter. Even though a large part of his kit says otherwise.
Coagulate Mastery says hi. Try using OR against Biohazard nodes in Act 6/7 and you will see that he isn't a counter for them. He gets melted. With 1 point in Coagulate though, he is a viable counter.
I've used him for plenty biohazard nodes in act 6 and I don't have a single point in Coagulate.
Make contact to gain bleed>hit block to build spores> heal any health loss with sp3.

Do you realise how silly your definitions are, you're arguing that omega red isn't a bleed counter without coagulate.

I'm guessing he's also not a counter against 100% bleed nodes because I lose 10% health (that can easily be healed back)
Omega Red isn't a bleed counter against biohazard opponents with big attack values and that's not debatable (without 1 point in coagulate of course). The bleed is far more powerful than the regeneration from Willpower. So I guess you are making some silly statements right now
Well, since you've said it's not debatable I guess there's nothing I can do.
Have a nice day.
If you don't know that 200 bleed damage is more than 100 regeneration then I can't help you. It's simple logic.
Disagree as many times as you want lol

Melted like a soft stick of butter.......

Just kidding. No point in coagulate. Only damage I took was block damage.

@Disappointed

This content has been removed.

Seems to be getting off point.
But although, yes, “counter” and “workaround” are different things, they aren’t different in how Dissapointed is describing them.

Whether a champ is bleed immune, takes 90% less damage from Bleed, or shrugs off Bleed, all those are DESIGNED that way, with that in mind.

I’d instead define “workaround” as having to use something/someone in order to get around a node or situation which is NOT behaving as intended. Working around a bug, etc.
This is the point I was trying to make, just because a champ reduces the potency of a node doesn't make them a workaround.

OR only reduces bleed by 90% so following his logic he wasn't designed as a counter. Even though a large part of his kit says otherwise.
Coagulate Mastery says hi. Try using OR against Biohazard nodes in Act 6/7 and you will see that he isn't a counter for them. He gets melted. With 1 point in Coagulate though, he is a viable counter.
I've used him for plenty biohazard nodes in act 6 and I don't have a single point in Coagulate.
Make contact to gain bleed>hit block to build spores> heal any health loss with sp3.

Do you realise how silly your definitions are, you're arguing that omega red isn't a bleed counter without coagulate.

I'm guessing he's also not a counter against 100% bleed nodes because I lose 10% health (that can easily be healed back)
Omega Red isn't a bleed counter against biohazard opponents with big attack values and that's not debatable (without 1 point in coagulate of course). The bleed is far more powerful than the regeneration from Willpower. So I guess you are making some silly statements right now
Well, since you've said it's not debatable I guess there's nothing I can do.
Have a nice day.
If you don't know that 200 bleed damage is more than 100 regeneration then I can't help you. It's simple logic.
Disagree as many times as you want lol
https://youtu.be/h1V-C9m-Jvg

Melted like a soft stick of butter.......

Just kidding. No point in coagulate. Only damage I took was block damage.

@Disappointed
9K attack isn't much. Where is this fight exactly? Act 6? Monthly EQ? I remember in act 6 with pre-nerf attack values OR was unusable without a point in coagulate

7.1.6. 🤷 It's okay to admit you were wrong. You literally said if you don't have a point in coagulate, OR gets melted.

Thanks for the disagree though.

This content has been removed.

Seems to be getting off point.
But although, yes, “counter” and “workaround” are different things, they aren’t different in how Dissapointed is describing them.

Whether a champ is bleed immune, takes 90% less damage from Bleed, or shrugs off Bleed, all those are DESIGNED that way, with that in mind.

I’d instead define “workaround” as having to use something/someone in order to get around a node or situation which is NOT behaving as intended. Working around a bug, etc.
This is the point I was trying to make, just because a champ reduces the potency of a node doesn't make them a workaround.

OR only reduces bleed by 90% so following his logic he wasn't designed as a counter. Even though a large part of his kit says otherwise.
Coagulate Mastery says hi. Try using OR against Biohazard nodes in Act 6/7 and you will see that he isn't a counter for them. He gets melted. With 1 point in Coagulate though, he is a viable counter.
I've used him for plenty biohazard nodes in act 6 and I don't have a single point in Coagulate.
Make contact to gain bleed>hit block to build spores> heal any health loss with sp3.

Do you realise how silly your definitions are, you're arguing that omega red isn't a bleed counter without coagulate.

I'm guessing he's also not a counter against 100% bleed nodes because I lose 10% health (that can easily be healed back)
Omega Red isn't a bleed counter against biohazard opponents with big attack values and that's not debatable (without 1 point in coagulate of course). The bleed is far more powerful than the regeneration from Willpower. So I guess you are making some silly statements right now
Well, since you've said it's not debatable I guess there's nothing I can do.
Have a nice day.
If you don't know that 200 bleed damage is more than 100 regeneration then I can't help you. It's simple logic.
Disagree as many times as you want lol
https://youtu.be/h1V-C9m-Jvg

Melted like a soft stick of butter.......

Just kidding. No point in coagulate. Only damage I took was block damage.

@Disappointed
9K attack isn't much. Where is this fight exactly? Act 6? Monthly EQ? I remember in act 6 with pre-nerf attack values OR was unusable without a point in coagulate
7.1.6. 🤷 It's okay to admit you were wrong. You literally said if you don't have a point in coagulate, OR gets melted.

Thanks for the disagree though.
I haven't reacted to your post. And as I told you in pre-nerf act 6 OR was unusable

Dude.... Act 7 has attack ratings between pre and post nerf 6.3.1.

Act 6.3.1 pre-nerf-

Act 6.3.1 post nerf-

Act 7.1.6-

Here's someone using OR pre-nerf-

https://youtu.be/kVunzwny_Dc

It's ok to be wrong. I have been wrong in the past and I've owned up to it. Nothing wrong with being wrong from time to time.

This content has been removed.

Seems to be getting off point.
But although, yes, “counter” and “workaround” are different things, they aren’t different in how Dissapointed is describing them.

Whether a champ is bleed immune, takes 90% less damage from Bleed, or shrugs off Bleed, all those are DESIGNED that way, with that in mind.

I’d instead define “workaround” as having to use something/someone in order to get around a node or situation which is NOT behaving as intended. Working around a bug, etc.
This is the point I was trying to make, just because a champ reduces the potency of a node doesn't make them a workaround.

OR only reduces bleed by 90% so following his logic he wasn't designed as a counter. Even though a large part of his kit says otherwise.
Coagulate Mastery says hi. Try using OR against Biohazard nodes in Act 6/7 and you will see that he isn't a counter for them. He gets melted. With 1 point in Coagulate though, he is a viable counter.
I've used him for plenty biohazard nodes in act 6 and I don't have a single point in Coagulate.
Make contact to gain bleed>hit block to build spores> heal any health loss with sp3.

Do you realise how silly your definitions are, you're arguing that omega red isn't a bleed counter without coagulate.

I'm guessing he's also not a counter against 100% bleed nodes because I lose 10% health (that can easily be healed back)
Omega Red isn't a bleed counter against biohazard opponents with big attack values and that's not debatable (without 1 point in coagulate of course). The bleed is far more powerful than the regeneration from Willpower. So I guess you are making some silly statements right now
Well, since you've said it's not debatable I guess there's nothing I can do.
Have a nice day.
If you don't know that 200 bleed damage is more than 100 regeneration then I can't help you. It's simple logic.
Disagree as many times as you want lol
https://youtu.be/h1V-C9m-Jvg

Melted like a soft stick of butter.......

Just kidding. No point in coagulate. Only damage I took was block damage.

@Disappointed
9K attack isn't much. Where is this fight exactly? Act 6? Monthly EQ? I remember in act 6 with pre-nerf attack values OR was unusable without a point in coagulate
7.1.6. 🤷 It's okay to admit you were wrong. You literally said if you don't have a point in coagulate, OR gets melted.

Thanks for the disagree though.
I haven't reacted to your post. And as I told you in pre-nerf act 6 OR was unusable
It's ok to be wrong. I have been wrong in the past and I've owned up to it. Nothing wrong with being wrong from time to time.
It's not about being wrong. I remember not ranking up OR cause I was taking too much bleed damage

Lol ok sure. Tootles again.

Corkscrew

From the opening post.

At some point are you going to stop nerfing apocalypse for just his player related abilities? And if not can I get the option to unrank him the next bs nerf you give him?

@Corkscrew

You realize you’re just speculating? Which is why I asked. I think it’s most likely as intended as well. However; neither of us know, which is why I asked for clarity… any node in use now, could be used in the future.

You didn't just ask for clarity. Throwing around the term "nerf" isn't taken lightly in these forums, particularly in cases where the champ's abilities haven't changed at all. I understand the concept of silent nerfs, but one node in one spot at the moment doesn't warrant a nerf alert.

AverageDesi

Seems to be getting off point.
But although, yes, “counter” and “workaround” are different things, they aren’t different in how Dissapointed is describing them.

Whether a champ is bleed immune, takes 90% less damage from Bleed, or shrugs off Bleed, all those are DESIGNED that way, with that in mind.

I’d instead define “workaround” as having to use something/someone in order to get around a node or situation which is NOT behaving as intended. Working around a bug, etc.
This is the point I was trying to make, just because a champ reduces the potency of a node doesn't make them a workaround.

OR only reduces bleed by 90% so following his logic he wasn't designed as a counter. Even though a large part of his kit says otherwise.
Coagulate Mastery says hi. Try using OR against Biohazard nodes in Act 6/7 and you will see that he isn't a counter for them. He gets melted. With 1 point in Coagulate though, he is a viable counter.
I've used him for plenty biohazard nodes in act 6 and I don't have a single point in Coagulate.
Make contact to gain bleed>hit block to build spores> heal any health loss with sp3.

Do you realise how silly your definitions are, you're arguing that omega red isn't a bleed counter without coagulate.

I'm guessing he's also not a counter against 100% bleed nodes because I lose 10% health (that can easily be healed back)
Omega Red isn't a bleed counter against biohazard opponents with big attack values and that's not debatable (without 1 point in coagulate of course). The bleed is far more powerful than the regeneration from Willpower. So I guess you are making some silly statements right now
Well, since you've said it's not debatable I guess there's nothing I can do.
Have a nice day.
If you don't know that 200 bleed damage is more than 100 regeneration then I can't help you. It's simple logic.
Disagree as many times as you want lol
https://youtu.be/h1V-C9m-Jvg

Melted like a soft stick of butter.......

Just kidding. No point in coagulate. Only damage I took was block damage.

@Disappointed
9K attack isn't much. Where is this fight exactly? Act 6? Monthly EQ? I remember in act 6 with pre-nerf attack values OR was unusable without a point in coagulate
7.1.6. 🤷 It's okay to admit you were wrong. You literally said if you don't have a point in coagulate, OR gets melted.

Thanks for the disagree though.
I haven't reacted to your post. And as I told you in pre-nerf act 6 OR was unusable
It's ok to be wrong. I have been wrong in the past and I've owned up to it. Nothing wrong with being wrong from time to time.
It's not about being wrong. I remember not ranking up OR cause I was taking too much bleed damage

me too. most likely pre nerf act 6. it just wasn't worth playing wihtout fear