True Focus

BitterSteel · September 2021

StevieManWonder said:
At this point I fully support nerfing the hell out of Ghost and Quake

I hate that I partially agree with you, but true focus is that bad for the game.

My order of preference if Kabam are that desperate to keep a leash on ghost and quake:

1. True focus gone, have a ghost specific and quake specific node
2. Nerf ghost and quake
3. Keep true focus

Player_Slasher · September 2021

BitterSteel said:

StevieManWonder said:
At this point I fully support nerfing the hell out of Ghost and Quake
I hate that I partially agree with you, but true focus is that bad for the game.

My order of preference if Kabam are that desperate to keep a leash on ghost and quake:

1. True focus gone, have a ghost specific and quake specific node
2. Nerf ghost and quake
3. Keep true focus

Can I just add that nerfing Ghost and Quake is an impossibility. Not when millions of us have ranked them up for the purpose of using them. Not when millions of content had already been done using these champions.
Even then, not all nodes in the game should outright shut down both Quake and Ghost. The focus should be on making them harder to use and making them less 'cheesy' for content, not to remove them from the equation completely.

Worknprogress · September 2021

Player_Slasher said:

BitterSteel said:

StevieManWonder said:
At this point I fully support nerfing the hell out of Ghost and Quake
I hate that I partially agree with you, but true focus is that bad for the game.

My order of preference if Kabam are that desperate to keep a leash on ghost and quake:

1. True focus gone, have a ghost specific and quake specific node
2. Nerf ghost and quake
3. Keep true focus

Can I just add that nerfing Ghost and Quake is an impossibility. Not when millions of us have ranked them up for the purpose of using them. Not when millions of content had already been done using these champions.
Even then, not all nodes in the game should outright shut down both Quake and Ghost. The focus should be on making them harder to use and making them less 'cheesy' for content, not to remove them from the equation completely.

It's not remotely an impossibility. Players like to think and act like that's the case but Kabam can do absolutely whatever they like with champions. I'd be perfectly fine with a nerf if they did like with Namor and Cull and just refunded resources used on them and let players decide whether to do so again.

GroundedWisdom · September 2021

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nightkiller7312 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nightkiller7312 said:

Worknprogress said:
This wouldn't be an issue if the playerbase didn't completely meltdown every time anything about any champ is changed that doesn't benefit the player. Ghost and Quake could have been rebalanced ages ago like they should have and this never would have come up.
they cant because many people ranked them up for their ability to smash many contents. i totally disagree with a nerf and also with this bs node. we can use any champ we want. people saying both should get a nerf are people who doesnt have them/use them. both require a high skill to demolish contents. it's not like they are very easy to play and everyone can master them. so cut the **** about nerfing them and remove this bs node already. instead introduce some new ways to make room for other champions aswell
It's impossible to create challenging content at this stage in the game, and still allow people to use whoever they want. Creating limits is what adds that challenge.
it's not?? yeah limits is what that adds challenge but adding a node that disable many utlities from many good and useful champions. they can still create challenging contents without true focus!!!!
It doesn't disable many utilities. It disables Evade and Miss.
Yes, you’re right from a black and white point of view. But as a result from that, it does disable many utilities.
It disables those Abilities. Unless the overall usefulness of the Champs rely heavily on those, it's not that drastic. Elsa for example, she works just fine without the Evade.
What about someone like Miles. Who’s majority of utility revolves around missing unblockable attacks.

What about Mr Negative, who relies on evade for more than 50% of his damage, and more than half of his utility. (He can’t get more than 10 degens out of 21 max, and can’t get more than 1 petrify out of 2 max, plus he can’t evade counter to get openings)?

What about tigra, who is used for the utility of avoiding projectile attacks from Apoc, P2099, Cable to name a few.

Those are all utilities that are gone due to miss and evade being countered.

3 Champions, plus 2. So that's 5. Out of 200. Let's add one or two more for argument sake.
Prior to this, I never even heard people support said Champs in as large a way. This has been highlighted by the Node being added, and people scrambling for the same mechanics. Aside from a few that genuinely liked the Champs out of preference, this is about relying on missing Damage. That's what people are thirsting for. What the message is, is the intention is for people to do that in the hardest content through skill, and not through Miss mechanics.

Buttehrs · September 2021

Nightkiller7312 said:

Worknprogress said:

Player_Slasher said:

BitterSteel said:

StevieManWonder said:
At this point I fully support nerfing the hell out of Ghost and Quake
I hate that I partially agree with you, but true focus is that bad for the game.

My order of preference if Kabam are that desperate to keep a leash on ghost and quake:

1. True focus gone, have a ghost specific and quake specific node
2. Nerf ghost and quake
3. Keep true focus

Can I just add that nerfing Ghost and Quake is an impossibility. Not when millions of us have ranked them up for the purpose of using them. Not when millions of content had already been done using these champions.
Even then, not all nodes in the game should outright shut down both Quake and Ghost. The focus should be on making them harder to use and making them less 'cheesy' for content, not to remove them from the equation completely.
It's not remotely an impossibility. Players like to think and act like that's the case but Kabam can do absolutely whatever they like with champions. I'd be perfectly fine with a nerf if they did like with Namor and Cull and just refunded resources used on them and let players decide whether to do so again.

as i said already cut the nerf bs already. it's not like nerfing would make anything better since many people are using them and having fun with them. so why ruining this? they already understand that nerfing those two can make a disaster and can drive many people crazy. they can something like Cav eq, making many champions useful because of the node and people used them aswell. nerfing was and is never an option for any problem

You missed his main point though. At the end of it, it is Kabams game and they can do as they wish regardless of what backlash or praise they receive. That doesn't make it a good decision or the right decision.

GroundedWisdom · September 2021

Nightkiller7312 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nightkiller7312 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nightkiller7312 said:

Worknprogress said:
This wouldn't be an issue if the playerbase didn't completely meltdown every time anything about any champ is changed that doesn't benefit the player. Ghost and Quake could have been rebalanced ages ago like they should have and this never would have come up.
they cant because many people ranked them up for their ability to smash many contents. i totally disagree with a nerf and also with this bs node. we can use any champ we want. people saying both should get a nerf are people who doesnt have them/use them. both require a high skill to demolish contents. it's not like they are very easy to play and everyone can master them. so cut the **** about nerfing them and remove this bs node already. instead introduce some new ways to make room for other champions aswell
It's impossible to create challenging content at this stage in the game, and still allow people to use whoever they want. Creating limits is what adds that challenge.
it's not?? yeah limits is what that adds challenge but adding a node that disable many utlities from many good and useful champions. they can still create challenging contents without true focus!!!!
It doesn't disable many utilities. It disables Evade and Miss.
Yes, you’re right from a black and white point of view. But as a result from that, it does disable many utilities.
It disables those Abilities. Unless the overall usefulness of the Champs rely heavily on those, it's not that drastic. Elsa for example, she works just fine without the Evade.
What about someone like Miles. Who’s majority of utility revolves around missing unblockable attacks.

What about Mr Negative, who relies on evade for more than 50% of his damage, and more than half of his utility. (He can’t get more than 10 degens out of 21 max, and can’t get more than 1 petrify out of 2 max, plus he can’t evade counter to get openings)?

What about tigra, who is used for the utility of avoiding projectile attacks from Apoc, P2099, Cable to name a few.

Those are all utilities that are gone due to miss and evade being countered.
3 Champions, plus 2. So that's 5. Out of 200. Let's add one or two more for argument sake.
Prior to this, I never even heard people support said Champs in as large a way. This has been highlighted by the Node being added, and people scrambling for the same mechanics. Aside from a few that genuinely liked the Champs out of preference, this is about relying on missing Damage. That's what people are thirsting for. What the message is, is the intention is for people to do that in the hardest content through skill, and not through Miss mechanics.
doesnt playing ghost and quake require high skill? oh alright 195 left to be played. can they evade special attacks like tigra do? can they miss like ghost do? can they evade like quake do? some of the champions have a piece of utility that cannot be found in other champions. so instead of blabbing and posting your idiocy think before you post something. if they didnt miss mechanic at all they shouldnt have introduce it in the first place. now they did? make some nodes that make other champions a better option. removing them or nerfing them or adding a bs node wont solve anything at all

That piece of utility is exactly what I was talking about.

jamslam · September 2021

People are acting like True Focus is the only node in the game that takes out multiple champions, we all know that not to be the truth but it sure does suit the agenda of those with Quake and Ghost.

Lord_M · September 2021

Not sure..

StevieManWonder · September 2021

BitterSteel said:

StevieManWonder said:
At this point I fully support nerfing the hell out of Ghost and Quake
I hate that I partially agree with you, but true focus is that bad for the game.

My order of preference if Kabam are that desperate to keep a leash on ghost and quake:

1. True focus gone, have a ghost specific and quake specific node
2. Nerf ghost and quake
3. Keep true focus

When True Focus first came out, I suggested to Kabam on the thread that they just give Ghost and Quake a special tag and then have a node that gives champs with those tags -100% ability accuracy. They didn’t listen obviously.
True Focus pisses me off because it neuters so many other champs that I like to play that aren’t anywhere near as powerful as Ghost and Quake (ie Miles, Tigra).
Also, I have a 6r3 Ghost that I awakened with the class gem from abyss and pumped in 120+ sig stones into her. At this point, I’d be more than happy if they nerf Ghost and give me my resources back like how they did with Namor.
As for Quake, I hate Quake and literally couldn’t care less about what happens with her.

StevieManWonder · September 2021

jamslam said:

StevieManWonder said:

BitterSteel said:

StevieManWonder said:
At this point I fully support nerfing the hell out of Ghost and Quake
I hate that I partially agree with you, but true focus is that bad for the game.

My order of preference if Kabam are that desperate to keep a leash on ghost and quake:

1. True focus gone, have a ghost specific and quake specific node
2. Nerf ghost and quake
3. Keep true focus

When True Focus first came out, I suggested to Kabam on the thread that they just give Ghost and Quake a special tag and then have a node that gives champs with those tags -100% ability accuracy. They didn’t listen obviously.
True Focus pisses me off because it neuters so many other champs that I like to play that aren’t anywhere near as powerful as Ghost and Quake (ie Miles, Tigra).
Also, I have a 6r3 Ghost that I awakened with the class gem from abyss and pumped in 120+ sig stones into her. At this point, I’d be more than happy if they nerf Ghost and give me my resources back like how they did with Namor.
As for Quake, I hate Quake and literally couldn’t care less about what happens with her.
The issue I think might have to do with how long Ghost has been out, do they have the ability to see who has her ranked up without manually checking accounts?

I am also not convinced they actually want to nerf Ghost or Quake, I think they want to put emphasis on Kitty for obvious reasons, they are trying to run a business at the end of the day. If they can manipulate people into thinking this is the end of Ghost in new content and the future is with Kitty.. then of course, they will do that.

No they would have to manually check accounts like they did with Namor and Cull. Just give people the option to sell them and then go from there. I’d definitely sell Ghost and reallocate my resources.

Player_Slasher · September 2021

jamslam said:
People are acting like True Focus is the only node in the game that takes out multiple champions, we all know that not to be the truth but it sure does suit the agenda of those with Quake and Ghost.

The problem being True Focus is currently in EVERY NEW ENDGAME CONTENT. The last few weeks of SoP, the entirety of the Shang-Chi quest, what's next? The entirety of 7.3???

And it's just baffling to me that people are even suggesting a nerf. Namor and Cull were released for 2 or 3 months before they were nerfed. Quake for FOUR YEARS. Ghost for THREE YEARS. Don't know bout y'all, but I remember Ghosting the #### out of all those bs 6.2 fights and Quaking the #### out of those bs Gauntlet fights. Their influence in the game is so massive that nerfing them would be stupid for anyone who hasn't fully completed all the content in the game that people have used Ghost and Quake for.

I agree that there should be some limits to Ghosting and Quaking every challenge without breaking a sweat, especially when the nodes are completely manageable with many other champions, but having True Focus everywhere straight up BANS the two and all the other champions who rely on Evade and Miss.

P.S. I have a r3 Ghost and barely used her while exploring 7.2 paths. Kabam, there are much better ways to encourage use of other champions, as shown by many Act 7 nodes.

Mauled · September 2021

jamslam said:
People are acting like True Focus is the only node in the game that takes out multiple champions, we all know that not to be the truth but it sure does suit the agenda of those with Quake and Ghost.

That’s true enough, but you don’t have Caltrops as a global node to take out every bleeder, or spiked armour to prevent crit heavy champions, you might have them on individual lanes. True Focus in and of itself isn’t a horrendous notion if it is used sparingly. If they wanted to make the odd one a bit trickier by preventing Ghost/Quake et al. That’s fine, we’ve got a lot of other champions in the game. The thing that I am concerned about is that since it’s release it has been in every single piece of high end content and if that trend continues it makes Ghost’s awakened ability irrelevant, robs her of a unique playstyle and the majority of her value. If she can only be used up to 7.2 - somewhere I didn’t really use her anyway because I don’t like to just rely on her - then that’s something that I find very disappointing.

ChuckD05 · September 2021

I gave ghost 180 6* sig stones about a month before true focus came all over the place. Can’t express how frustrating it is to feel like I wasted one of the most scarce resources. Really don’t like this and tbh some still use ghost so they didn’t even accomplish their goal but I don’t , bc it’s not the same. I would have never sigged her that quickly though. Hopefully they read enough of these to realize that they’ve gone too far with it.

ChuckD05 · September 2021

KoopaKrusher said:
I don't understand why everyone is up in arms about nodes like this. People love to complain that "challenging content isn't challenging if you can just quake it", but then when challenging content uses true focus to counter quake/ghost, people complain that they can't use quake/ghost.

I get that it's frustrating that true focus counters all miss/evade champs, but there are plenty of characters that don't rely on those mechanics. No one complains that mystic ward prevents you from using all your nullify champs.

Because you’ve prob not given ghost an ag and 200 stones , along with a t5cc. There is no node even remotely close to as wide spread and negativity affecting any mystic. Not even remotely close.

BitterSteel · September 2021

GroundedWisdom said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nightkiller7312 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nightkiller7312 said:

Worknprogress said:
This wouldn't be an issue if the playerbase didn't completely meltdown every time anything about any champ is changed that doesn't benefit the player. Ghost and Quake could have been rebalanced ages ago like they should have and this never would have come up.
they cant because many people ranked them up for their ability to smash many contents. i totally disagree with a nerf and also with this bs node. we can use any champ we want. people saying both should get a nerf are people who doesnt have them/use them. both require a high skill to demolish contents. it's not like they are very easy to play and everyone can master them. so cut the **** about nerfing them and remove this bs node already. instead introduce some new ways to make room for other champions aswell
It's impossible to create challenging content at this stage in the game, and still allow people to use whoever they want. Creating limits is what adds that challenge.
it's not?? yeah limits is what that adds challenge but adding a node that disable many utlities from many good and useful champions. they can still create challenging contents without true focus!!!!
It doesn't disable many utilities. It disables Evade and Miss.
Yes, you’re right from a black and white point of view. But as a result from that, it does disable many utilities.
It disables those Abilities. Unless the overall usefulness of the Champs rely heavily on those, it's not that drastic. Elsa for example, she works just fine without the Evade.
What about someone like Miles. Who’s majority of utility revolves around missing unblockable attacks.

What about Mr Negative, who relies on evade for more than 50% of his damage, and more than half of his utility. (He can’t get more than 10 degens out of 21 max, and can’t get more than 1 petrify out of 2 max, plus he can’t evade counter to get openings)?

What about tigra, who is used for the utility of avoiding projectile attacks from Apoc, P2099, Cable to name a few.

Those are all utilities that are gone due to miss and evade being countered.
3 Champions, plus 2. So that's 5. Out of 200. Let's add one or two more for argument sake.

One or two for arguments sake? How generous of you! How about adding as many as there are?

Miles- misses out on utility
Spidergwen - misses out on utility
Spider-ham - misses out on utility
Mr Fantastic - misses out on utility
Mr Negative- misses out on utility and damage
Quake - misses out on utility and damage
Massacre - misses out on utility
Elsa - misses out on utility
Ronin - misses out on utility and damage
Stealthy - misses out on utility
Prof X - misses out on utility and damage
Stryfe - misses out on utility and damage
G2099 - misses out on utility
Ghost - misses out on utility and damage
Mysterio - misses out on utility
Stark Spidey - misses out on utility
Ultron - misses out on utility
Vulture - misses out on utility
Surfer - misses out on utility and damage
Ebony maw - misses out on utility
Hood - misses out on utility
Tigra - misses out on utility and damage

These are all champions that use miss or evade in some form not just for defence. Whether it’s a safety net, way to access utility or way to get damage.

Not to mention, that when we get any other champions buffed with evade and miss they’ll join the list. I haven’t just listed out any champion who uses evade or miss, oh no. These are just the ones that are considered good champions. Think, any Spider-Man, invisible woman, daredevil OG.

So yeah, arguments sake, instead of 5 let’s try 22.

GroundedWisdom · September 2021

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nightkiller7312 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nightkiller7312 said:

Worknprogress said:
This wouldn't be an issue if the playerbase didn't completely meltdown every time anything about any champ is changed that doesn't benefit the player. Ghost and Quake could have been rebalanced ages ago like they should have and this never would have come up.
they cant because many people ranked them up for their ability to smash many contents. i totally disagree with a nerf and also with this bs node. we can use any champ we want. people saying both should get a nerf are people who doesnt have them/use them. both require a high skill to demolish contents. it's not like they are very easy to play and everyone can master them. so cut the **** about nerfing them and remove this bs node already. instead introduce some new ways to make room for other champions aswell
It's impossible to create challenging content at this stage in the game, and still allow people to use whoever they want. Creating limits is what adds that challenge.
it's not?? yeah limits is what that adds challenge but adding a node that disable many utlities from many good and useful champions. they can still create challenging contents without true focus!!!!
It doesn't disable many utilities. It disables Evade and Miss.
Yes, you’re right from a black and white point of view. But as a result from that, it does disable many utilities.
It disables those Abilities. Unless the overall usefulness of the Champs rely heavily on those, it's not that drastic. Elsa for example, she works just fine without the Evade.
What about someone like Miles. Who’s majority of utility revolves around missing unblockable attacks.

What about Mr Negative, who relies on evade for more than 50% of his damage, and more than half of his utility. (He can’t get more than 10 degens out of 21 max, and can’t get more than 1 petrify out of 2 max, plus he can’t evade counter to get openings)?

What about tigra, who is used for the utility of avoiding projectile attacks from Apoc, P2099, Cable to name a few.

Those are all utilities that are gone due to miss and evade being countered.
3 Champions, plus 2. So that's 5. Out of 200. Let's add one or two more for argument sake.

One or two for arguments sake? How generous of you! How about adding as many as there are?

Miles- misses out on utility
Spidergwen - misses out on utility
Spider-ham - misses out on utility
Mr Fantastic - misses out on utility
Mr Negative- misses out on utility and damage
Quake - misses out on utility and damage
Massacre - misses out on utility
Elsa - misses out on utility
Ronin - misses out on utility and damage
Stealthy - misses out on utility
Prof X - misses out on utility and damage
Stryfe - misses out on utility and damage
G2099 - misses out on utility
Ghost - misses out on utility and damage
Mysterio - misses out on utility
Stark Spidey - misses out on utility
Ultron - misses out on utility
Vulture - misses out on utility
Surfer - misses out on utility and damage
Ebony maw - misses out on utility
Hood - misses out on utility
Tigra - misses out on utility and damage

These are all champions that use miss or evade in some form not just for defence. Whether it’s a safety net, way to access utility or way to get damage.

Not to mention, that when we get any other champions buffed with evade and miss they’ll join the list. I haven’t just listed out any champion who uses evade or miss, oh no. These are just the ones that are considered good champions. Think, any Spider-Man, invisible woman, daredevil OG.

So yeah, arguments sake, instead of 5 let’s try 22.

You're broadening that list of utility to anyone that is affected. I see you.

GroundedWisdom · September 2021

Narrow that down to "utility and damage", and we can have a more realistic list. None of which are unplayable. Just less effective.

Sarvanga1_ · September 2021

Speedro420 said:

StevieManWonder said:

Liss_Bliss_ said:
They can’t really change Quake or Ghost, without facing tons of backlash.

BUT they can gut their usefulness in challenges EQ/SQ and new content.
And butcher a ton of other characters alongside them. At this point just nerf Quake and Ghost.
Or just get creative!

This is correct. There is no need for any nerf. Kabam just needs to use their creativity to limit these champs.

Sarvanga1_ · September 2021

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nightkiller7312 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nightkiller7312 said:

Worknprogress said:
This wouldn't be an issue if the playerbase didn't completely meltdown every time anything about any champ is changed that doesn't benefit the player. Ghost and Quake could have been rebalanced ages ago like they should have and this never would have come up.
they cant because many people ranked them up for their ability to smash many contents. i totally disagree with a nerf and also with this bs node. we can use any champ we want. people saying both should get a nerf are people who doesnt have them/use them. both require a high skill to demolish contents. it's not like they are very easy to play and everyone can master them. so cut the **** about nerfing them and remove this bs node already. instead introduce some new ways to make room for other champions aswell
It's impossible to create challenging content at this stage in the game, and still allow people to use whoever they want. Creating limits is what adds that challenge.
it's not?? yeah limits is what that adds challenge but adding a node that disable many utlities from many good and useful champions. they can still create challenging contents without true focus!!!!
It doesn't disable many utilities. It disables Evade and Miss.
Yes, you’re right from a black and white point of view. But as a result from that, it does disable many utilities.
It disables those Abilities. Unless the overall usefulness of the Champs rely heavily on those, it's not that drastic. Elsa for example, she works just fine without the Evade.
What about someone like Miles. Who’s majority of utility revolves around missing unblockable attacks.

What about Mr Negative, who relies on evade for more than 50% of his damage, and more than half of his utility. (He can’t get more than 10 degens out of 21 max, and can’t get more than 1 petrify out of 2 max, plus he can’t evade counter to get openings)?

What about tigra, who is used for the utility of avoiding projectile attacks from Apoc, P2099, Cable to name a few.

Those are all utilities that are gone due to miss and evade being countered.
3 Champions, plus 2. So that's 5. Out of 200. Let's add one or two more for argument sake.

One or two for arguments sake? How generous of you! How about adding as many as there are?

Miles- misses out on utility
Spidergwen - misses out on utility
Spider-ham - misses out on utility
Mr Fantastic - misses out on utility
Mr Negative- misses out on utility and damage
Quake - misses out on utility and damage
Massacre - misses out on utility
Elsa - misses out on utility
Ronin - misses out on utility and damage
Stealthy - misses out on utility
Prof X - misses out on utility and damage
Stryfe - misses out on utility and damage
G2099 - misses out on utility
Ghost - misses out on utility and damage
Mysterio - misses out on utility
Stark Spidey - misses out on utility
Ultron - misses out on utility
Vulture - misses out on utility
Surfer - misses out on utility and damage
Ebony maw - misses out on utility
Hood - misses out on utility
Tigra - misses out on utility and damage

These are all champions that use miss or evade in some form not just for defence. Whether it’s a safety net, way to access utility or way to get damage.

Not to mention, that when we get any other champions buffed with evade and miss they’ll join the list. I haven’t just listed out any champion who uses evade or miss, oh no. These are just the ones that are considered good champions. Think, any Spider-Man, invisible woman, daredevil OG.

So yeah, arguments sake, instead of 5 let’s try 22.

Just take out stealthy, fantastic and g2099. Then this list would be perfect.

Spaddicted · September 2021

Sarvanga1_ said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nightkiller7312 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nightkiller7312 said:

Worknprogress said:
This wouldn't be an issue if the playerbase didn't completely meltdown every time anything about any champ is changed that doesn't benefit the player. Ghost and Quake could have been rebalanced ages ago like they should have and this never would have come up.
they cant because many people ranked them up for their ability to smash many contents. i totally disagree with a nerf and also with this bs node. we can use any champ we want. people saying both should get a nerf are people who doesnt have them/use them. both require a high skill to demolish contents. it's not like they are very easy to play and everyone can master them. so cut the **** about nerfing them and remove this bs node already. instead introduce some new ways to make room for other champions aswell
It's impossible to create challenging content at this stage in the game, and still allow people to use whoever they want. Creating limits is what adds that challenge.
it's not?? yeah limits is what that adds challenge but adding a node that disable many utlities from many good and useful champions. they can still create challenging contents without true focus!!!!
It doesn't disable many utilities. It disables Evade and Miss.
Yes, you’re right from a black and white point of view. But as a result from that, it does disable many utilities.
It disables those Abilities. Unless the overall usefulness of the Champs rely heavily on those, it's not that drastic. Elsa for example, she works just fine without the Evade.
What about someone like Miles. Who’s majority of utility revolves around missing unblockable attacks.

What about Mr Negative, who relies on evade for more than 50% of his damage, and more than half of his utility. (He can’t get more than 10 degens out of 21 max, and can’t get more than 1 petrify out of 2 max, plus he can’t evade counter to get openings)?

What about tigra, who is used for the utility of avoiding projectile attacks from Apoc, P2099, Cable to name a few.

Those are all utilities that are gone due to miss and evade being countered.
3 Champions, plus 2. So that's 5. Out of 200. Let's add one or two more for argument sake.

One or two for arguments sake? How generous of you! How about adding as many as there are?

Miles- misses out on utility
Spidergwen - misses out on utility
Spider-ham - misses out on utility
Mr Fantastic - misses out on utility
Mr Negative- misses out on utility and damage
Quake - misses out on utility and damage
Massacre - misses out on utility
Elsa - misses out on utility
Ronin - misses out on utility and damage
Stealthy - misses out on utility
Prof X - misses out on utility and damage
Stryfe - misses out on utility and damage
G2099 - misses out on utility
Ghost - misses out on utility and damage
Mysterio - misses out on utility
Stark Spidey - misses out on utility
Ultron - misses out on utility
Vulture - misses out on utility
Surfer - misses out on utility and damage
Ebony maw - misses out on utility
Hood - misses out on utility
Tigra - misses out on utility and damage

These are all champions that use miss or evade in some form not just for defence. Whether it’s a safety net, way to access utility or way to get damage.

Not to mention, that when we get any other champions buffed with evade and miss they’ll join the list. I haven’t just listed out any champion who uses evade or miss, oh no. These are just the ones that are considered good champions. Think, any Spider-Man, invisible woman, daredevil OG.

So yeah, arguments sake, instead of 5 let’s try 22.
Just take out stealthy, fantastic and g2099. Then this list would be perfect.

Guilly99' miss saved me countless of times.

BitterSteel · September 2021

Sarvanga1_ said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nightkiller7312 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nightkiller7312 said:

Worknprogress said:
This wouldn't be an issue if the playerbase didn't completely meltdown every time anything about any champ is changed that doesn't benefit the player. Ghost and Quake could have been rebalanced ages ago like they should have and this never would have come up.
they cant because many people ranked them up for their ability to smash many contents. i totally disagree with a nerf and also with this bs node. we can use any champ we want. people saying both should get a nerf are people who doesnt have them/use them. both require a high skill to demolish contents. it's not like they are very easy to play and everyone can master them. so cut the **** about nerfing them and remove this bs node already. instead introduce some new ways to make room for other champions aswell
It's impossible to create challenging content at this stage in the game, and still allow people to use whoever they want. Creating limits is what adds that challenge.
it's not?? yeah limits is what that adds challenge but adding a node that disable many utlities from many good and useful champions. they can still create challenging contents without true focus!!!!
It doesn't disable many utilities. It disables Evade and Miss.
Yes, you’re right from a black and white point of view. But as a result from that, it does disable many utilities.
It disables those Abilities. Unless the overall usefulness of the Champs rely heavily on those, it's not that drastic. Elsa for example, she works just fine without the Evade.
What about someone like Miles. Who’s majority of utility revolves around missing unblockable attacks.

What about Mr Negative, who relies on evade for more than 50% of his damage, and more than half of his utility. (He can’t get more than 10 degens out of 21 max, and can’t get more than 1 petrify out of 2 max, plus he can’t evade counter to get openings)?

What about tigra, who is used for the utility of avoiding projectile attacks from Apoc, P2099, Cable to name a few.

Those are all utilities that are gone due to miss and evade being countered.
3 Champions, plus 2. So that's 5. Out of 200. Let's add one or two more for argument sake.

One or two for arguments sake? How generous of you! How about adding as many as there are?

Miles- misses out on utility
Spidergwen - misses out on utility
Spider-ham - misses out on utility
Mr Fantastic - misses out on utility
Mr Negative- misses out on utility and damage
Quake - misses out on utility and damage
Massacre - misses out on utility
Elsa - misses out on utility
Ronin - misses out on utility and damage
Stealthy - misses out on utility
Prof X - misses out on utility and damage
Stryfe - misses out on utility and damage
G2099 - misses out on utility
Ghost - misses out on utility and damage
Mysterio - misses out on utility
Stark Spidey - misses out on utility
Ultron - misses out on utility
Vulture - misses out on utility
Surfer - misses out on utility and damage
Ebony maw - misses out on utility
Hood - misses out on utility
Tigra - misses out on utility and damage

These are all champions that use miss or evade in some form not just for defence. Whether it’s a safety net, way to access utility or way to get damage.

Not to mention, that when we get any other champions buffed with evade and miss they’ll join the list. I haven’t just listed out any champion who uses evade or miss, oh no. These are just the ones that are considered good champions. Think, any Spider-Man, invisible woman, daredevil OG.

So yeah, arguments sake, instead of 5 let’s try 22.
Just take out stealthy, fantastic and g2099. Then this list would be perfect.

I was including safety nets, which I think are important in the game. But I do take your point, I think I’d remove Fantastic because he’s a bit more niche but it’s still a safety net.

Sarvanga1_ · September 2021

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nightkiller7312 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nightkiller7312 said:

Worknprogress said:
This wouldn't be an issue if the playerbase didn't completely meltdown every time anything about any champ is changed that doesn't benefit the player. Ghost and Quake could have been rebalanced ages ago like they should have and this never would have come up.
they cant because many people ranked them up for their ability to smash many contents. i totally disagree with a nerf and also with this bs node. we can use any champ we want. people saying both should get a nerf are people who doesnt have them/use them. both require a high skill to demolish contents. it's not like they are very easy to play and everyone can master them. so cut the **** about nerfing them and remove this bs node already. instead introduce some new ways to make room for other champions aswell
It's impossible to create challenging content at this stage in the game, and still allow people to use whoever they want. Creating limits is what adds that challenge.
it's not?? yeah limits is what that adds challenge but adding a node that disable many utlities from many good and useful champions. they can still create challenging contents without true focus!!!!
It doesn't disable many utilities. It disables Evade and Miss.
Yes, you’re right from a black and white point of view. But as a result from that, it does disable many utilities.
It disables those Abilities. Unless the overall usefulness of the Champs rely heavily on those, it's not that drastic. Elsa for example, she works just fine without the Evade.
What about someone like Miles. Who’s majority of utility revolves around missing unblockable attacks.

What about Mr Negative, who relies on evade for more than 50% of his damage, and more than half of his utility. (He can’t get more than 10 degens out of 21 max, and can’t get more than 1 petrify out of 2 max, plus he can’t evade counter to get openings)?

What about tigra, who is used for the utility of avoiding projectile attacks from Apoc, P2099, Cable to name a few.

Those are all utilities that are gone due to miss and evade being countered.
3 Champions, plus 2. So that's 5. Out of 200. Let's add one or two more for argument sake.

One or two for arguments sake? How generous of you! How about adding as many as there are?

Miles- misses out on utility
Spidergwen - misses out on utility
Spider-ham - misses out on utility
Mr Fantastic - misses out on utility
Mr Negative- misses out on utility and damage
Quake - misses out on utility and damage
Massacre - misses out on utility
Elsa - misses out on utility
Ronin - misses out on utility and damage
Stealthy - misses out on utility
Prof X - misses out on utility and damage
Stryfe - misses out on utility and damage
G2099 - misses out on utility
Ghost - misses out on utility and damage
Mysterio - misses out on utility
Stark Spidey - misses out on utility
Ultron - misses out on utility
Vulture - misses out on utility
Surfer - misses out on utility and damage
Ebony maw - misses out on utility
Hood - misses out on utility
Tigra - misses out on utility and damage

These are all champions that use miss or evade in some form not just for defence. Whether it’s a safety net, way to access utility or way to get damage.

Not to mention, that when we get any other champions buffed with evade and miss they’ll join the list. I haven’t just listed out any champion who uses evade or miss, oh no. These are just the ones that are considered good champions. Think, any Spider-Man, invisible woman, daredevil OG.

So yeah, arguments sake, instead of 5 let’s try 22.

Just take out stealthy, fantastic and g2099. Then this list would be perfect.

Spaddicted said:

Sarvanga1_ said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nightkiller7312 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Nightkiller7312 said:

Worknprogress said:
This wouldn't be an issue if the playerbase didn't completely meltdown every time anything about any champ is changed that doesn't benefit the player. Ghost and Quake could have been rebalanced ages ago like they should have and this never would have come up.
they cant because many people ranked them up for their ability to smash many contents. i totally disagree with a nerf and also with this bs node. we can use any champ we want. people saying both should get a nerf are people who doesnt have them/use them. both require a high skill to demolish contents. it's not like they are very easy to play and everyone can master them. so cut the **** about nerfing them and remove this bs node already. instead introduce some new ways to make room for other champions aswell
It's impossible to create challenging content at this stage in the game, and still allow people to use whoever they want. Creating limits is what adds that challenge.
it's not?? yeah limits is what that adds challenge but adding a node that disable many utlities from many good and useful champions. they can still create challenging contents without true focus!!!!
It doesn't disable many utilities. It disables Evade and Miss.
Yes, you’re right from a black and white point of view. But as a result from that, it does disable many utilities.
It disables those Abilities. Unless the overall usefulness of the Champs rely heavily on those, it's not that drastic. Elsa for example, she works just fine without the Evade.
What about someone like Miles. Who’s majority of utility revolves around missing unblockable attacks.

What about Mr Negative, who relies on evade for more than 50% of his damage, and more than half of his utility. (He can’t get more than 10 degens out of 21 max, and can’t get more than 1 petrify out of 2 max, plus he can’t evade counter to get openings)?

What about tigra, who is used for the utility of avoiding projectile attacks from Apoc, P2099, Cable to name a few.

Those are all utilities that are gone due to miss and evade being countered.
3 Champions, plus 2. So that's 5. Out of 200. Let's add one or two more for argument sake.

One or two for arguments sake? How generous of you! How about adding as many as there are?

Miles- misses out on utility
Spidergwen - misses out on utility
Spider-ham - misses out on utility
Mr Fantastic - misses out on utility
Mr Negative- misses out on utility and damage
Quake - misses out on utility and damage
Massacre - misses out on utility
Elsa - misses out on utility
Ronin - misses out on utility and damage
Stealthy - misses out on utility
Prof X - misses out on utility and damage
Stryfe - misses out on utility and damage
G2099 - misses out on utility
Ghost - misses out on utility and damage
Mysterio - misses out on utility
Stark Spidey - misses out on utility
Ultron - misses out on utility
Vulture - misses out on utility
Surfer - misses out on utility and damage
Ebony maw - misses out on utility
Hood - misses out on utility
Tigra - misses out on utility and damage

These are all champions that use miss or evade in some form not just for defence. Whether it’s a safety net, way to access utility or way to get damage.

Not to mention, that when we get any other champions buffed with evade and miss they’ll join the list. I haven’t just listed out any champion who uses evade or miss, oh no. These are just the ones that are considered good champions. Think, any Spider-Man, invisible woman, daredevil OG.

So yeah, arguments sake, instead of 5 let’s try 22.
Just take out stealthy, fantastic and g2099. Then this list would be perfect.
Guilly99' miss saved me countless of times.

Yeah it has saved me too. But it doesn't really affect her usage in any matchup whether you can miss or not.

Worknprogress · September 2021

ChuckD05 said:

KoopaKrusher said:
I don't understand why everyone is up in arms about nodes like this. People love to complain that "challenging content isn't challenging if you can just quake it", but then when challenging content uses true focus to counter quake/ghost, people complain that they can't use quake/ghost.

I get that it's frustrating that true focus counters all miss/evade champs, but there are plenty of characters that don't rely on those mechanics. No one complains that mystic ward prevents you from using all your nullify champs.

Because you’ve prob not given ghost an ag and 200 stones , along with a t5cc. There is no node even remotely close to as wide spread and negativity affecting any mystic. Not even remotely close.

I gave Ghost the generic AG from abyss exploration and around 120 sigs. I've been saying she should be nerfed along with Quake since LONG before True Focus existed. I practically never use either champ but if content is still going to exist with them taken into account I at least want them as options. I'd much rather all the broken champs be actually balanced though and the devs no longer feel the need to ruin other champs to dissuade people from using the broken ones however.

Worknprogress · September 2021

Nightkiller7312 said:
people acting like cheesing contents with ghost and quake are very simple and doesnt require high skill at all while infact using those two requires a very high skill for cheesing contents. have you ever tried quaking a 300k health champion? i did once and my fingers got very tired. have you ever tried playing ghost? timing phasing and the hit you gonna deal so you dont get wrecked. it requires lots of training to master those. for those people saying that they should nerf them, they are the people who dont play with them/have them. instead of adding true focus everywhere, give us nodes that help and feed other champions aswell. like those fury buffs we get for doing stuff in Cav eq

Ghost in particular but even Quake being oh so difficult to use is one of the biggest exaggerations ever to be parroted about constantly.

ChiliDog · September 2021

Since people doing well with ihulk and herc, next goona be anti-immortal nodes after you've had a taste, spent those units. Time for Heimdall, Apocalypse and prof x to be "buffed" to remove their cheese and move it as their own abilities at a decreased level, but put nano plague on everything. Anti-magnetic field! 😜 ok, going too far here, but this isn't like call of duty nerfing a gun.

As mentioned previously, this affects more than ghost...it also affects all the synergies raised for ghost if rank downs were given.

Mauled · September 2021

Worknprogress said:

ChuckD05 said:

KoopaKrusher said:
I don't understand why everyone is up in arms about nodes like this. People love to complain that "challenging content isn't challenging if you can just quake it", but then when challenging content uses true focus to counter quake/ghost, people complain that they can't use quake/ghost.

I get that it's frustrating that true focus counters all miss/evade champs, but there are plenty of characters that don't rely on those mechanics. No one complains that mystic ward prevents you from using all your nullify champs.

Because you’ve prob not given ghost an ag and 200 stones , along with a t5cc. There is no node even remotely close to as wide spread and negativity affecting any mystic. Not even remotely close.
I gave Ghost the generic AG from abyss exploration and around 120 sigs. I've been saying she should be nerfed along with Quake since LONG before True Focus existed. I practically never use either champ but if content is still going to exist with them taken into account I at least want them as options. I'd much rather all the broken champs be actually balanced though and the devs no longer feel the need to ruin other champs to dissuade people from using the broken ones however.

I get that argument, I don’t think anybody can really argue that they’re not OP champions, barely in the same category as some of the best champions in the game. This is where balancing comes into play, it’s not balancing the game by cutting them off high end content. Making the odd True Focus lane would prevent Ghosters and Quakers just as well but what is essentially a blanket ban on them isn’t achieving this.
You should also take into account the fact that you have got one of the deeper rosters in the game so even if Ghost/Quake we’re to just be deleted from the game you’ve got the majority of other ‘god tier’ champions at R3 so this wouldn’t necessarily affect you in the way it would affect someone a bit further down the pecking order.

True Focus

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