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Guillotine buff is here !!

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Comments

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,908 ★★★★★
    No_oneuk said:

    No_oneuk said:

    I wonder if Kabam will ultimately understand at some point that a buff would be far more successful if they only add things, not take things away.

    You can't always just add. You have to balance whatever you add among the existing Abilities. That requires reducing some things.
    A character balance, sure. Like with Namor or HT or something.

    But she was picked because she's a lacking character that needs more added to her to make her balanced and usable. She had a good base kit, which they could have added some more utility/abilities onto, whilst boosting up the damage of her already existing ones.

    There was just no reason to scrap off old bits of kit to add others...
    Everyone is an expert when it comes to character balancing, but they don't really understand what's involved. You can't just go on additives. You'd end up with Champs that would be horribly broken, and a system of never-ending catch-up. You have to consider the overall kit and what the potential is, balance that, and fit it among othe Champs and the Meta in general.
    TL:DR - A buff still requires rebalancing at times.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,908 ★★★★★
    It's easy for people to say "Add more.", but they don't always consider what that effect has overall.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,908 ★★★★★
    ItsDamien said:

    It's easy for people to say "Add more.", but they don't always consider what that effect has overall.

    It's easier to tune down something than it is to tune up. And in practice many games balance this way by overtuning first and making changes soon after.
    It's always better to err on the side of caution.
  • BendyBendy Posts: 2,038 ★★★★
    Are people actually forgetting about that her synergies could be changing since gamora synergy is pretty much in base now of when they bleed u gain a soul the gamora synergy was if hitting a bleeding champ 50% chance to get a soul and ms has timer increase on souls which now dont decrease until certain soul so most likely be changed also to reflect on the change
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,908 ★★★★★

    ItsDamien said:

    It's easy for people to say "Add more.", but they don't always consider what that effect has overall.

    It's easier to tune down something than it is to tune up. And in practice many games balance this way by overtuning first and making changes soon after.
    This is why we need betas or at least releasing buffs to the CCP first to ensure they haven’t gone overboard.
    You can't get that data from a handful of sources. You need to release them into the game and check overall, over time.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,908 ★★★★★
    No_oneuk said:

    It's easy for people to say "Add more.", but they don't always consider what that effect has overall.

    I don't mean to be rude, but I really don't understand why? If a character has a pretty good base kit, and people pretty much don't use them because they don't do enough damage compared to other options that do similar things, why couldn't you literally just add damage?

    If you take (entirely hypothetical here) Guillotine and compare her to another character whose kit has similar things, for example Cap IW (focusing mainly on Heal Reversal and a "big damage" special attack). Throw them both into fairly vanilla fights (ROL, Abyss, Act 7.2 something with a node that doesn't really hamstring them). Compare the two's damage and say theoretically Cap ends these fights roughly 20-35% faster.

    Could you not then simply just add 20-35% damage increase to Guillotines damage abilities? Why wouldn't take work? Why would that break the character? It would make her much more viable as a rank up candidate for folks who pull her.

    Am I misunderstanding things here guys? It seems pretty simple to me.
    That's the point I'm making. It's not that simple.
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Posts: 1,302 ★★★★
    The Regen thing is pretty disappointing. 2% health is basically nothing.
  • NojokejaymNojokejaym Posts: 3,767 ★★★★★
    It’s looking spicy
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,908 ★★★★★
    ItsDamien said:

    ItsDamien said:

    It's easy for people to say "Add more.", but they don't always consider what that effect has overall.

    It's easier to tune down something than it is to tune up. And in practice many games balance this way by overtuning first and making changes soon after.
    It's always better to err on the side of caution.
    Why is better? For a newly released champ, perhaps. For a champ thats been out for years and releasing a "buff" not at all. A lot of people have Guilly already, they aren't going to cause outrage by selling her crystals and people screeching for refunds. Kabam has very little to lose by over adjusting then toning down after. However releasing something that doesn't satisfy a larger portion of their playerbase leads to a risk that people will truly believe that they don't know how to buff and balance.

    ItsDamien said:

    It's easy for people to say "Add more.", but they don't always consider what that effect has overall.

    It's easier to tune down something than it is to tune up. And in practice many games balance this way by overtuning first and making changes soon after.
    This is why we need betas or at least releasing buffs to the CCP first to ensure they haven’t gone overboard.
    You can't get that data from a handful of sources. You need to release them into the game and check overall, over time.
    Having a beta and having feedback is better than thinking you know what others want and being shocked that people aren't happy when you release it. Some data on player feedback is better than none.

    No offense but I honestly don't think you've played many live service games at all the understand how important these things are, especially when it comes to devs interacting with some of the players for legitimate feedback.
    You're confusing feedback with actual data, and I'm speaking about the data that determines whether something is overtuned or not. That can't come from a few representatives. Those are two different topics entirely.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,908 ★★★★★
    edited September 21
    As for the first part of your statement, a Champion that's overtuned doesn't cause as much damage as one that's overpowered.
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 4,020 ★★★★★
    Have we gotten any word on any Changes to her Preexisting Synergies?
    She has So Many Unique Synergies with Champions like Gamora/Morningstar/Guilly2099/Ronin/Many More, I'd have to assume at least Some of them were changed to affect her new abilities and one could be a game changer.


    As for his Base Abilities she appears to be All Damage with Sustainability, even her Bit of Utility in the Special Attack Debuffs are also Damage Based, really couldn't have given her a little more Utility? Sword Attacks are Non Contact or something?
    I was really worried about them screwing with her Underrated Life Steal on the Sig and at first glance I thought my fears came true, but putting the Lid Steal on her Base now as well having be 100% Active off Every Single Bit of Damage Dealt Including Debuffs sounds Very Interesting. (Another bit of Nice Utility could've been "Thanks to the Sword's Curse Guillotine's Regeneration Rate cannot be Reduced Below 100%" because this could become a Serious Issue when fighting any matchup that Reverses Regen Passively, since there's no way to Stop the Regen from ticking Every Time you deal Any Damage)

    New Sig sounds pretty nice though getting rid of the usual Immunity Issue many Bleed Champions have, and there's only a handful of Bleed Immune Champions with High Physical Resist (off the top of my head I can only think of Luke Cage) so you'll pretty much Always have a way to get those Debuffs applied at Full Potency minus Purify Matchups and Bleed Resist.
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