**Mastery Loadouts**
Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.

Regarding Brian Grant’s Most Recent Video

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Comments

  • ZeraphanZeraphan Posts: 324 ★★★
    thepiggy said:



    Let me put it this way, and it's a rough estimate so bear with me...

    Over the period of a week, it takes ~30hrs of in-game arena grinding to get ~2k units.

    Post-buff you can farm ~2k units from Acts 1-3 in ~6hrs and you don't have to wait for a new arena and you can get multiple devices and autofight going to make it even more efficient.

    You can get 5x the units doing the early Acts now that it does farming arena. Imagine if all in game item prices shot up by 5x? Imagine if 1x Cav crystal cost 1500 units..

    This is bad for the game.

    Yes, you can do that right now this is true. Cav crystals aren't going to go up 5x in price because the backlash against Kabam (and their bottom line) would be way too much for them to want to deal with it.

    The fact that Kabam didn't think through their redesign fully is not a fault of ours or any player.
  • AdevatiAdevati Posts: 437 ★★★
    thepiggy said:

    Zeraphan said:

    thepiggy said:

    Zeraphan said:

    Wicket329 said:

    It is probably worth noting that whatever kind of gates they put in place to address this issue will only delay it. For example, if a person were to make many alt accounts and farm units right now and Kabam came out and said “an account must be this old or X level to participate in gifting,” then those alt accounts would sit out this year… and then be usable next time around.

    I have no idea how I feel about this. I don’t mind if people have an alt or two and decide to feed their main account with some quick and easy units. It’s the holidays, live and let live. I would mind if a person did this to such an extent as to tip rank rewards in an alliance or some other such nonsense. That would be obnoxious.

    But it is ok for someone to spend money to buy units to do this? Either mass gifting via any means is bad or it isn't, but it can't be wrong for someone to do this for free and totally fine for someone to spend money when the end result is the same.
    I'm sure @DNA3000 can explain this much better, but there's a difference between money and time, although I agree that time is money...

    Kabam designs rewards like GGCs with a certain economy in mind. If you buy it with units using real money, the cost was high, rewards intended, and balanced. If you buy GGCs with units farmed from arena, it's balanced because it takes a long time farm them because the amount of units scattered across the game is intended and calculated.

    If contents is adjusted that allows easy farming (post-buff Act 1-3), it devalues the value of units (purchased or grinded the old fashioned way) and throws everything out of balance.

    A whale and a hardcore grinder don't affect game balance (assuming the whale can't buy everything in the game), but exploit farmers can.
    Ok, so explain this to me.

    Player A spends tons of their time to get units for free through alt farming and gets 50 6* champs because of it (Totally made up numbers clearly).
    Player B spends real money to make sure they get the same number of crystals as Player A and they also receive 50 6* champs (still totally made up numbers).

    One of these effects the bottom line for Kabam, but how does only one of these have a different impact on you? The end result from both Player A and Player B is the same on every other player.
    Let me put it this way, and it's a rough estimate so bear with me...

    Over the period of a week, it takes ~30hrs of in-game arena grinding to get ~2k units.

    Post-buff you can farm ~2k units from Acts 1-3 in ~6hrs and you don't have to wait for a new arena and you can get multiple devices and autofight going to make it even more efficient.

    You can get 5x the units doing the early Acts now that it does farming arena. Imagine if all in game item prices shot up by 5x? Imagine if 1x Cav crystal cost 1500 units..

    This is bad for the game.
    Except units on a developed account are worth 5x more than units on a new account.

    If there were no alliance or milestone rewards virtually no one would be spending 300 units on a crystal with the same rewards as a GGC. Even at 50 units I bet most wouldn’t touch them.
  • ZeraphanZeraphan Posts: 324 ★★★
    thepiggy said:

    Zeraphan said:

    thepiggy said:



    Let me put it this way, and it's a rough estimate so bear with me...

    Over the period of a week, it takes ~30hrs of in-game arena grinding to get ~2k units.

    Post-buff you can farm ~2k units from Acts 1-3 in ~6hrs and you don't have to wait for a new arena and you can get multiple devices and autofight going to make it even more efficient.

    You can get 5x the units doing the early Acts now that it does farming arena. Imagine if all in game item prices shot up by 5x? Imagine if 1x Cav crystal cost 1500 units..

    This is bad for the game.

    Yes, you can do that right now this is true. Cav crystals aren't going to go up 5x in price because the backlash against Kabam (and their bottom line) would be way too much for them to want to deal with it.

    The fact that Kabam didn't think through their redesign fully is not a fault of ours or any player.
    I'm not saying that prices will go up 5x, I'm just pointing out how badly it affects the value of a unit and all in game rewards. Why bother with arena or even an alliance if you can farm the early stuff all day? It cheapens their whole product and makes the game a complete joke, even if you're doing it legit.
    Farming the early stuff all day long on multiple accounts wouldn't help a main account with end game content. Outside of the gifting event this would accomplish nothing for main accounts.

    I am so very confused how people think this going to break everything outside of the gifting event.
  • KerneasKerneas Posts: 3,738 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Graves_3 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Zeraphan said:

    GroundedWisdom said:



    The difference is they're using Resources intended to help new Accounts, in order to boost their main. It's not Grinding vs. spending. It's the manipulation of the intended system that is the problem. If people want to spend their own money on themselves, that's different. They can do that on any Account. If they're taking advantage of the new Units, that's not the same.

    This is no way effects you though. This only effects the bottom line for Kabam. It is no player's fault that Kabam redesigned the opening acts like this. This is the way the game currently functions. It is not an exploit to play the game as designed and do whatever the player wants with the in game rewards. All of this is a Kabam issue both in the cause and the effect.

    There are 2 solutions to this if mass gifting is actually a problem:
    1. Don't have the event.
    2. An account can only receive X number of crystals as gifts regardless of the source.

    Or we could just acknowledge that this doesn't effect players in any way because the end result is the same whether people grind/spend and that the players who will disagree with me right now are just jealous/upset that they don't have the time to grind alts as well.
    It affects me when I'm not using an Alt to boost my main
    The cats out of the bag now!! This is what all the people complaining about this are worried about. Since I am not doing it then it must be wrong.
    Originally I said it wasn't game-breaking and I could live with it. That's not the same as saying it doesn't affect people at all. It does, actually. Anything that bastardizes the concept of fair play affects the game overall, and the people playing it. People have every right to make Alts and farm the Units in them. Using said Units to repeatedly boost other Accounts isn't a right. It's a loophole.
    On the other hand, it is one event per year and the boost is rng. And earning those units isn't particularly easy either, it is hours upon hours of playing, without basic masteries like dexterity. Basically arena, just a bit faster.

    If you critisize boosting other accounts, then there are two options: ban alting or don't make gifting, I dont see other options
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,235 ★★★★★
    Kerneas said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Graves_3 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Zeraphan said:

    GroundedWisdom said:



    The difference is they're using Resources intended to help new Accounts, in order to boost their main. It's not Grinding vs. spending. It's the manipulation of the intended system that is the problem. If people want to spend their own money on themselves, that's different. They can do that on any Account. If they're taking advantage of the new Units, that's not the same.

    This is no way effects you though. This only effects the bottom line for Kabam. It is no player's fault that Kabam redesigned the opening acts like this. This is the way the game currently functions. It is not an exploit to play the game as designed and do whatever the player wants with the in game rewards. All of this is a Kabam issue both in the cause and the effect.

    There are 2 solutions to this if mass gifting is actually a problem:
    1. Don't have the event.
    2. An account can only receive X number of crystals as gifts regardless of the source.

    Or we could just acknowledge that this doesn't effect players in any way because the end result is the same whether people grind/spend and that the players who will disagree with me right now are just jealous/upset that they don't have the time to grind alts as well.
    It affects me when I'm not using an Alt to boost my main
    The cats out of the bag now!! This is what all the people complaining about this are worried about. Since I am not doing it then it must be wrong.
    Originally I said it wasn't game-breaking and I could live with it. That's not the same as saying it doesn't affect people at all. It does, actually. Anything that bastardizes the concept of fair play affects the game overall, and the people playing it. People have every right to make Alts and farm the Units in them. Using said Units to repeatedly boost other Accounts isn't a right. It's a loophole.
    On the other hand, it is one event per year and the boost is rng. And earning those units isn't particularly easy either, it is hours upon hours of playing, without basic masteries like dexterity. Basically arena, just a bit faster.

    If you critisize boosting other accounts, then there are two options: ban alting or don't make gifting, I dont see other options
    I've never been a fan of boosting mains with Alts. Personal opinion. However, many people save up all year to do it, and I respect that. It's the misuse of the new Units that I don't agree with.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,254 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Kerneas said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Graves_3 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Zeraphan said:

    GroundedWisdom said:



    The difference is they're using Resources intended to help new Accounts, in order to boost their main. It's not Grinding vs. spending. It's the manipulation of the intended system that is the problem. If people want to spend their own money on themselves, that's different. They can do that on any Account. If they're taking advantage of the new Units, that's not the same.

    This is no way effects you though. This only effects the bottom line for Kabam. It is no player's fault that Kabam redesigned the opening acts like this. This is the way the game currently functions. It is not an exploit to play the game as designed and do whatever the player wants with the in game rewards. All of this is a Kabam issue both in the cause and the effect.

    There are 2 solutions to this if mass gifting is actually a problem:
    1. Don't have the event.
    2. An account can only receive X number of crystals as gifts regardless of the source.

    Or we could just acknowledge that this doesn't effect players in any way because the end result is the same whether people grind/spend and that the players who will disagree with me right now are just jealous/upset that they don't have the time to grind alts as well.
    It affects me when I'm not using an Alt to boost my main
    The cats out of the bag now!! This is what all the people complaining about this are worried about. Since I am not doing it then it must be wrong.
    Originally I said it wasn't game-breaking and I could live with it. That's not the same as saying it doesn't affect people at all. It does, actually. Anything that bastardizes the concept of fair play affects the game overall, and the people playing it. People have every right to make Alts and farm the Units in them. Using said Units to repeatedly boost other Accounts isn't a right. It's a loophole.
    On the other hand, it is one event per year and the boost is rng. And earning those units isn't particularly easy either, it is hours upon hours of playing, without basic masteries like dexterity. Basically arena, just a bit faster.

    If you critisize boosting other accounts, then there are two options: ban alting or don't make gifting, I dont see other options
    I've never been a fan of boosting mains with Alts. Personal opinion. However, many people save up all year to do it, and I respect that. It's the misuse of the new Units that I don't agree with.
    Yeah I think the one thing everyone can agree on is that someone who has a couple alts and bought a £5 unit card every month for a year, and has been left with a few level 15 accounts and wants to gift themselves would get extremely screwed over if there was a restriction that your account had to be over level 25 or something

    I really think Kabam needs to be careful with the restrictions and how they deal with this
  • SyndicatedSyndicated Posts: 572 ★★★
    This was like 2 years old summoner celebration calendar, like 1500 units in account only for logging in.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,235 ★★★★★
    Aryman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    No. He pointed out that he doesn't personally care, but there's still an effect nonetheless.

    Literally a few minutes ago you wrote that this situation affects you because you are not using alts and playing without any unfair advantage, while owning alts and farming units IS ALLOWED FOR EVERYONE. Nice try dude, but you have to try harder because your credibility is negligible.

    Well "dude", it was an example. It still affects me because I'm not playing with multiple Accounts to boost me. I'm playing on one. I just don't care what people do. I care about the fairness of the competition and the game overall.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,235 ★★★★★
    Syndicated said:

    This was like 2 years old summoner celebration calendar, like 1500 units in account only for logging in.

    Over 3 months. Not within 6 hours or so. Lol.
  • ZeraphanZeraphan Posts: 324 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:



    I've never been a fan of boosting mains with Alts. Personal opinion. However, many people save up all year to do it, and I respect that. It's the misuse of the new Units that I don't agree with.

    So if I made an alt account in January and only farmed easy content/etc and never spent a Unit that is totally fine and not a misuse of Units earned through game content, but if I made an alt account today and farmed the same content that is a misuse of Units. The amount of units for the content is roughly the same according to Kabam. So the amount of time spent should not change how one views the use of the Units earned by completing the content.
  • TyphoonTyphoon Posts: 1,748 ★★★★★
    JustingBonoko said:

    thepiggy said:

    Botters can reach level 40+ too. Very low prestige, 1400+ win streaks, 6 figure PVPs.

    Let players buy GGCs like they are Cavs and don't allow trading. There are thousands of bot farms loaded with easy units waiting to sell..this is terrible for the game, and LEGIT exploit farming is bad for game economy too.

    This event always has an atmosphere of shadiness to it, it's a shame they keep doing it.

    thepiggy said:

    Zeraphan said:

    Wicket329 said:

    It is probably worth noting that whatever kind of gates they put in place to address this issue will only delay it. For example, if a person were to make many alt accounts and farm units right now and Kabam came out and said “an account must be this old or X level to participate in gifting,” then those alt accounts would sit out this year… and then be usable next time around.

    I have no idea how I feel about this. I don’t mind if people have an alt or two and decide to feed their main account with some quick and easy units. It’s the holidays, live and let live. I would mind if a person did this to such an extent as to tip rank rewards in an alliance or some other such nonsense. That would be obnoxious.

    But it is ok for someone to spend money to buy units to do this? Either mass gifting via any means is bad or it isn't, but it can't be wrong for someone to do this for free and totally fine for someone to spend money when the end result is the same.
    I'm sure @DNA3000 can explain this much better, but there's a difference between money and time, although I agree that time is money...

    Kabam designs rewards like GGCs with a certain economy in mind. If you buy it with units using real money, the cost was high, rewards intended, and balanced. If you buy GGCs with units farmed from arena, it's balanced because it takes a long time farm them because the amount of units scattered across the game is intended and calculated.

    If contents is adjusted that allows easy farming (post-buff Act 1-3), it devalues the value of units (purchased or grinded the old fashioned way) and throws everything out of balance.

    A whale and a hardcore grinder don't affect game balance (assuming the whale can't buy everything in the game), but exploit farmers can.
    have you actually grinded act123 on alts? are talking from own perspective and find it easy or you just watched Bg doing it on 1 account...

    i am not hardcore arena grinder (but do always hit all milestones) and i think 5-6h on alts for 2k units is not worth it... 5-6h arenas give less units undoubtedly, but less boring.

    nevermind me, take Kam's example - he also thinks this grind on alts is not always worth it.

    in extreme cases and hypothetically yes it can devalue units if everyone start farming on alts etc - but you fail to take into account that people are not willing to farm on alts, even if supposedly easy units
    I made an alt account yesterday just to test all this out. Did initial completion of Acts 1-3 in a few hours, pulled a 4* champ from a PHC (VTD), and accumulated about 1,300 units. Probably go back and do exploration once I unlock autofight a level 19. Pretty nice how they streamlined the game for new players. However, I personally couldn't do more than 2-3 alts for gifting before becoming mind-numbingly bored. Once I find out what Kabam's plans for the gifting event restrictions are, I'll make a decision on what to do with the units on the alt.
  • H3t3rH3t3r Posts: 2,879 Guardian
    BitterSteel said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Kerneas said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Graves_3 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Zeraphan said:

    GroundedWisdom said:



    The difference is they're using Resources intended to help new Accounts, in order to boost their main. It's not Grinding vs. spending. It's the manipulation of the intended system that is the problem. If people want to spend their own money on themselves, that's different. They can do that on any Account. If they're taking advantage of the new Units, that's not the same.

    This is no way effects you though. This only effects the bottom line for Kabam. It is no player's fault that Kabam redesigned the opening acts like this. This is the way the game currently functions. It is not an exploit to play the game as designed and do whatever the player wants with the in game rewards. All of this is a Kabam issue both in the cause and the effect.

    There are 2 solutions to this if mass gifting is actually a problem:
    1. Don't have the event.
    2. An account can only receive X number of crystals as gifts regardless of the source.

    Or we could just acknowledge that this doesn't effect players in any way because the end result is the same whether people grind/spend and that the players who will disagree with me right now are just jealous/upset that they don't have the time to grind alts as well.
    It affects me when I'm not using an Alt to boost my main
    The cats out of the bag now!! This is what all the people complaining about this are worried about. Since I am not doing it then it must be wrong.
    Originally I said it wasn't game-breaking and I could live with it. That's not the same as saying it doesn't affect people at all. It does, actually. Anything that bastardizes the concept of fair play affects the game overall, and the people playing it. People have every right to make Alts and farm the Units in them. Using said Units to repeatedly boost other Accounts isn't a right. It's a loophole.
    On the other hand, it is one event per year and the boost is rng. And earning those units isn't particularly easy either, it is hours upon hours of playing, without basic masteries like dexterity. Basically arena, just a bit faster.

    If you critisize boosting other accounts, then there are two options: ban alting or don't make gifting, I dont see other options
    I've never been a fan of boosting mains with Alts. Personal opinion. However, many people save up all year to do it, and I respect that. It's the misuse of the new Units that I don't agree with.
    Yeah I think the one thing everyone can agree on is that someone who has a couple alts and bought a £5 unit card every month for a year, and has been left with a few level 15 accounts and wants to gift themselves would get extremely screwed over if there was a restriction that your account had to be over level 25 or something

    I really think Kabam needs to be careful with the restrictions and how they deal with this
    Could they like impose a limit on how many people you can gift to and be gifted by. So like only these 20 accounts can send gifts to you and vice versa.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,235 ★★★★★
    Aryman said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Well "dude", it was an example. It still affects me because I'm not playing with multiple Accounts to boost me. I'm playing on one. I just don't care what people do. I care about the fairness of the competition and the game overall.

    So I will repeat that anyone could create alts for themselves and farm units on them. Where do you see something unfair here?If someone spends money on the game and I dont, then I should also consider that it is unfair? We both have the same rights, and just because we don't take advantage of them doesn't mean it's unfair.

    Those Units were added with the express purpose of assisting newer Players starting out. Not to create mega-mains.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,235 ★★★★★
    Aryman said:

    I can give you one alt account if you want btw. @GroundedWisdom maybe you will stop being so sad.

    I'm cool. My Ally mates and I Gift each other. That's the spirit of it for me.
  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Posts: 5,260 ★★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    AverageDesi said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Why is everyone calling this an exploit? A simple question to all those people calling this an exploit:
    Do you or do you not farm revives by running back issues arachnid action 2.2? Or for that matter any of the act 5 chapters or act 4?
    Do you or do you not run ROL to farm potions?
    If you do either of the above, do you consider these to be an exploit?
    If you don’t think the above are an exploit, please enlighten how unit grinding on alt account is an exploit?

    All those mentioned above are tedious processes that take a lot of time compared what we have here. And it's not just players calling it exploit. Mike also called it a possible exploit that would have to be prevented. You can take it up with him why he thinks it's an exploit
    You can autofight 2.2 back issues and gain about a hundred revives in less than a week. What is tedious in that? It actually takes more effort to run act 1/2/3 to grind units.
    100 revives in 1 week would mean close to 4k units gain. This method gives you 2k units in 6 hrs. That's almost 60 times better investment in act 123
  • SearmenisSearmenis Posts: 1,545 ★★★★★
    You guys fight for the wrong reasons. The problem is not someone who does create a few more accounts to exploit the event. Most of us, can't do that many alts, and get them to a "gifting level", maybe 3? 5? And gift 20 GGCs to our main afterwards? That's insignificant, it's a glitch. The actual prolem is the bots, and the mercs. Ppl who are going to pay others to get them 50 new accounts to lvl 15 or 40 or whatever. It's exaclty the same with the Arenas problem, but 1000 times worse.
    You're gonna say "but arenas are competitive and because of the cheaters I can't get my hands on a 6* champ". No, without the cheaters the 200 cutoff would have been 100? 60? You still won't get the 6* champ, unless you have so much free time you don't know what to do with it. Or, if you re a youtuber. Or, if you re rich, but then, you would'nt care about the arenas.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,235 ★★★★★
    JustingBonoko said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Syndicated said:

    This was like 2 years old summoner celebration calendar, like 1500 units in account only for logging in.

    Over 3 months. Not within 6 hours or so. Lol.
    3 months but only logging in, 6h of boring mind numbing activity - also people are being mislead by autofighting option. when u get to act 3, even with 4* you cant solely rely on autofight, or have to revive few times - my own personal experience

    i encourage everyone to sacrifice 6h to run 1 alt to see how terrible it is and then open 7 GGC and see if it was worth the work
    You're equating 3 months with 6 hours of starting the game out? Hmm.....
  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Posts: 5,260 ★★★★★
    JustingBonoko said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Syndicated said:

    This was like 2 years old summoner celebration calendar, like 1500 units in account only for logging in.

    Over 3 months. Not within 6 hours or so. Lol.
    3 months but only logging in, 6h of boring mind numbing activity - also people are being mislead by autofighting option. when u get to act 3, even with 4* you cant solely rely on autofight, or have to revive few times - my own personal experience

    i encourage everyone to sacrifice 6h to run 1 alt to see how terrible it is and then open 7 GGC and see if it was worth the work
    You just have to play it properly. Do act 3 chapter 2 on your own and go backwards and ai will do it for you
  • ZeraphanZeraphan Posts: 324 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:



    Those Units were added with the express purpose of assisting newer Players starting out. Not to create mega-mains.

    The redesign was done to make it easier for new players this is true. The Units were there before the redesign and are there because they have always been there. There is no "express purpose" for those Units just like there isn't one for Units we get in end game content. The only purpose for those Units is to be spent on whatever the person who spent the time farming them (from any content) decides to spend them on. If they had an intended purpose then the game would only allow you to spend them on those specific games.
  • SearmenisSearmenis Posts: 1,545 ★★★★★
    JustingBonoko said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Syndicated said:

    This was like 2 years old summoner celebration calendar, like 1500 units in account only for logging in.

    Over 3 months. Not within 6 hours or so. Lol.
    3 months but only logging in, 6h of boring mind numbing activity - also people are being mislead by autofighting option. when u get to act 3, even with 4* you cant solely rely on autofight, or have to revive few times - my own personal experience

    i encourage everyone to sacrifice 6h to run 1 alt to see how terrible it is and then open 7 GGC and see if it was worth the work
    Actually you can. I started an alt 2,5 months ago, and got extremely bored after lvl 19 and autofight. With all these free champs kabam is giving in every new MEQ, you can easily get through Act 3 untouched.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,235 ★★★★★
    Zeraphan said:

    GroundedWisdom said:



    Those Units were added with the express purpose of assisting newer Players starting out. Not to create mega-mains.

    The redesign was done to make it easier for new players this is true. The Units were there before the redesign and are there because they have always been there. There is no "express purpose" for those Units just like there isn't one for Units we get in end game content. The only purpose for those Units is to be spent on whatever the person who spent the time farming them (from any content) decides to spend them on. If they had an intended purpose then the game would only allow you to spend them on those specific games.
    Those Units have been made easier to get. That's the difference. Intentions change, and that's what we're discussing. The ease of acquiring a mass amount within a short span of time.
This discussion has been closed.