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Devil of Hell's Kitchen Overhaul: Thoughts?

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Comments

  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★

    @Kabam Miike common guys .. any insights would be good

    I need to turn off liquid courage and double edge just to be able to quest in the EQ with him. Otherwise one fight and regardless of how he does - and he’s done for the rest of the lane
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★

    I would love to see a DDHK tune up. He’s just some small adjustments away from being an amazing champion, that always active miss counter is a piece of utility that I would rank him for alone

    However, as someone who runs suicides full time, he’s utterly unusable. And while it does make sense for a devout Catholic character to not work well with suicide masteries, it does severely hamper him from a gameplay standpoint.

    Considering we have some ridiculous champions like Ibomb, Diablo and Kingpin, I don’t think setting his regen rate at 100% would be game breaking. If the healing would be too much, I think setting an individual regen rate for the rage debuff is the second best option

    His kit isn’t strong enough to justify being hampered by that regen rate so much. Very few champions have such a significant weakness in their kits. Not even the strongest champs.

    I do also agree with Rookiie. His damage loop, and damage windows are too slim and somewhat complicated. In other words, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Making his playstyle less stressful through increasing durations would go a long way, and upping the values a bit would really bring him into his own

    DDHK is not a bad champion right now. I want to make that clear. In fact, I think he’s quite underrated. But like quite a few of the more recent buffs, it feels like it’s falling short of allowing champ to reach their potential. It’s a frustrating trend to see buffs come through as doing the bare minimum to make the champion somewhat usable, rather than really making champions unique and doing them justice. I understand it’s a small team, and John already has a lot of other roles, but I think I would prefer quite a few less buffs if it meant each champion buff was guaranteed to do the character justice, and make them a useable and useful champ at every level of the game

    Great write up.

    One of the things with DDHK is that he’s a very high skill based champ. That’s one reason I believe the regen rate at 100% is reasonable. As shown above - Corvus can be considered borderline broken when he has Glaive charges up. He heals from double edge and/bleed and shock. And Coldsnap (forgot about that one). 0 damage from those and all willpower healing.

    We’re literally asking for him to have a normal regen rate so he can stand with every other champ.

    Also, the damage points are valid. I think that first the regen should be attended to, as @Chobbly states it may not take much time and/or effort - and then we can see how effective he is.

    But @Kabam Miike needs to take the first step. The silence is deafening. And I’m part deaf in real life.
  • GrandOldKaiGrandOldKai Posts: 545 ★★★
    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    The image below is from a Kam MCOC video which I found in @Texas_11 ’s thread:

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/249181/proof-ddhk-needs-a-tune-up#latest

    DDHK post-buff lags BEHIND all other Skill champs showcased in the video below:



    He’s not a top Skill choice for Offense AND his regen neuters him.

    Kabam, just tune him up please.

    In the image above, Blade finished the fight faster than DDHK. BLADE ffs. A champion that is now borderline IRRELEVANT.
    And DDHK finished last.
    My gripe about this champion (6-star R3):
    Fury rotation? 120 hits to take down ROL WS
    SP3 rotation? 120 hits to take down ROL WS
    Synergies? 120 hits to take down ROL WS
    He needs to have an impact moment, Kabam.
    Like Magneto hitting an SP3.
    Like Fury on his fourth Light Attack.
    Like Archangel on his Heavy.
    Give DDHK his Impact Moment.
    To be fair to Blade, that damage may have probably been Danger Sense, but even still

    DDHK just needs... something.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★

    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    The image below is from a Kam MCOC video which I found in @Texas_11 ’s thread:

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/249181/proof-ddhk-needs-a-tune-up#latest

    DDHK post-buff lags BEHIND all other Skill champs showcased in the video below:



    He’s not a top Skill choice for Offense AND his regen neuters him.

    Kabam, just tune him up please.

    In the image above, Blade finished the fight faster than DDHK. BLADE ffs. A champion that is now borderline IRRELEVANT.
    And DDHK finished last.
    My gripe about this champion (6-star R3):
    Fury rotation? 120 hits to take down ROL WS
    SP3 rotation? 120 hits to take down ROL WS
    Synergies? 120 hits to take down ROL WS
    He needs to have an impact moment, Kabam.
    Like Magneto hitting an SP3.
    Like Fury on his fourth Light Attack.
    Like Archangel on his Heavy.
    Give DDHK his Impact Moment.
    To be fair to Blade, that damage may have probably been Danger Sense, but even still

    DDHK just needs... something.
    Like my old instructor used to say “do something that resembles anything”.

    Lol


  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,887 ★★★★★

    I would love to see a DDHK tune up. He’s just some small adjustments away from being an amazing champion, that always active miss counter is a piece of utility that I would rank him for alone

    However, as someone who runs suicides full time, he’s utterly unusable. And while it does make sense for a devout Catholic character to not work well with suicide masteries, it does severely hamper him from a gameplay standpoint.

    Considering we have some ridiculous champions like Ibomb, Diablo and Kingpin, I don’t think setting his regen rate at 100% would be game breaking. If the healing would be too much, I think setting an individual regen rate for the rage debuff is the second best option

    His kit isn’t strong enough to justify being hampered by that regen rate so much. Very few champions have such a significant weakness in their kits. Not even the strongest champs.

    I do also agree with Rookiie. His damage loop, and damage windows are too slim and somewhat complicated. In other words, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Making his playstyle less stressful through increasing durations would go a long way, and upping the values a bit would really bring him into his own

    DDHK is not a bad champion right now. I want to make that clear. In fact, I think he’s quite underrated. But like quite a few of the more recent buffs, it feels like it’s falling short of allowing champ to reach their potential. It’s a frustrating trend to see buffs come through as doing the bare minimum to make the champion somewhat usable, rather than really making champions unique and doing them justice. I understand it’s a small team, and John already has a lot of other roles, but I think I would prefer quite a few less buffs if it meant each champion buff was guaranteed to do the character justice, and make them a useable and useful champ at every level of the game

    Great write up @Rockypantherx
    Thank you for that
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★

    I would love to see a DDHK tune up. He’s just some small adjustments away from being an amazing champion, that always active miss counter is a piece of utility that I would rank him for alone

    However, as someone who runs suicides full time, he’s utterly unusable. And while it does make sense for a devout Catholic character to not work well with suicide masteries, it does severely hamper him from a gameplay standpoint.

    Considering we have some ridiculous champions like Ibomb, Diablo and Kingpin, I don’t think setting his regen rate at 100% would be game breaking. If the healing would be too much, I think setting an individual regen rate for the rage debuff is the second best option

    His kit isn’t strong enough to justify being hampered by that regen rate so much. Very few champions have such a significant weakness in their kits. Not even the strongest champs.

    I do also agree with Rookiie. His damage loop, and damage windows are too slim and somewhat complicated. In other words, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Making his playstyle less stressful through increasing durations would go a long way, and upping the values a bit would really bring him into his own

    DDHK is not a bad champion right now. I want to make that clear. In fact, I think he’s quite underrated. But like quite a few of the more recent buffs, it feels like it’s falling short of allowing champ to reach their potential. It’s a frustrating trend to see buffs come through as doing the bare minimum to make the champion somewhat usable, rather than really making champions unique and doing them justice. I understand it’s a small team, and John already has a lot of other roles, but I think I would prefer quite a few less buffs if it meant each champion buff was guaranteed to do the character justice, and make them a useable and useful champ at every level of the game

    Great write up.

    One of the things with DDHK is that he’s a very high skill based champ. That’s one reason I believe the regen rate at 100% is reasonable. As shown above - Corvus can be considered borderline broken when he has Glaive charges up. He heals from double edge and/bleed and shock. And Coldsnap (forgot about that one). 0 damage from those and all willpower healing.
    I don’t think DDHK is as much a high skill champ as he is a high management champ. He has so many aspects to his kit that the player needs to pay attention to in order for his to perform at maximum potential. And even when they do, the payoff is not that large

    Take another high management skill champ: Crossbones. Crossbones takes a bit more skill to pull off than DDHK, but he also has a lot of management in his kit. So why is he considered a very, very good champion? It’s worth it. With that management comes immense damage, over 100% defensive ability accuracy, no crits, and a 90% chance to purify any debuff

    The juice is very much worth the squeeze.

    It’s not with DDHK. I firmly believe he has an incredibly good base kit. The utility is there, the mechanics are there. They just don’t flow together very well.

    As much as I would like to see the regen rate tweaked in an upcoming patch, I don’t think we’re going to see any further adjustments to him unless he gets a dedicated tune up spot. Which as far as I’m concerned would actually be for the better, I would rather they spend some time properly pulling him together than just tweaking the regen rate and feeling justified to call it a day.

    I do believe our concerns are being relayed. Miike and the team have 100% seen the flare up in activity on this thread, and while they do get a lot of flak, I genuinely believe they’re good at relaying our concerns. I don’t think this is in their hands at this point

    To be bluntly honest, I don’t think we’ll see another DDHK buff. Look at the Guillotine fiasco. She is far worse than DDHK, was voted by the community, and had significantly more outcry. She’s barely getting touched.

    It really does come back to the ‘bare minimum’ thing I mentioned. So many buffs, especially recently, have felt like roundabout ways to slap some extra numbers on a kit and call it a day. Because ultimately damage is what matters in the early game, and disappointingly, that’s who these buffs are aimed at. Despite the fact that a champ that is good at high levels of play is also good at lower levels, while a champ targeted at newest players is rarely good at the top end. Just refer to Sersi for a clear example of that
    I think Guilly is a different case. There’s nothing wrong with her other than the perceived effectiveness of her buff.

    DDHK is well….broken with the regen.

    How quickly can it be fixed? When we discussed iHulk’s issue with keeping the rage up, they made the change immediately (no patch) to have his rage paused during opponent specials. That changed him from not useful to what he is. Is he the answer to everything? No. But he’s usable and people like him.

    That’s the impact we can have here. And as @Chobbly has stated many times - it can be done because it has been done before.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,887 ★★★★★

    I would love to see a DDHK tune up. He’s just some small adjustments away from being an amazing champion, that always active miss counter is a piece of utility that I would rank him for alone

    However, as someone who runs suicides full time, he’s utterly unusable. And while it does make sense for a devout Catholic character to not work well with suicide masteries, it does severely hamper him from a gameplay standpoint.

    Considering we have some ridiculous champions like Ibomb, Diablo and Kingpin, I don’t think setting his regen rate at 100% would be game breaking. If the healing would be too much, I think setting an individual regen rate for the rage debuff is the second best option

    His kit isn’t strong enough to justify being hampered by that regen rate so much. Very few champions have such a significant weakness in their kits. Not even the strongest champs.

    I do also agree with Rookiie. His damage loop, and damage windows are too slim and somewhat complicated. In other words, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Making his playstyle less stressful through increasing durations would go a long way, and upping the values a bit would really bring him into his own

    DDHK is not a bad champion right now. I want to make that clear. In fact, I think he’s quite underrated. But like quite a few of the more recent buffs, it feels like it’s falling short of allowing champ to reach their potential. It’s a frustrating trend to see buffs come through as doing the bare minimum to make the champion somewhat usable, rather than really making champions unique and doing them justice. I understand it’s a small team, and John already has a lot of other roles, but I think I would prefer quite a few less buffs if it meant each champion buff was guaranteed to do the character justice, and make them a useable and useful champ at every level of the game

    Great write up.

    One of the things with DDHK is that he’s a very high skill based champ. That’s one reason I believe the regen rate at 100% is reasonable. As shown above - Corvus can be considered borderline broken when he has Glaive charges up. He heals from double edge and/bleed and shock. And Coldsnap (forgot about that one). 0 damage from those and all willpower healing.
    I don’t think DDHK is as much a high skill champ as he is a high management champ. He has so many aspects to his kit that the player needs to pay attention to in order for his to perform at maximum potential. And even when they do, the payoff is not that large

    Take another high management skill champ: Crossbones. Crossbones takes a bit more skill to pull off than DDHK, but he also has a lot of management in his kit. So why is he considered a very, very good champion? It’s worth it. With that management comes immense damage, over 100% defensive ability accuracy, no crits, and a 90% chance to purify any debuff

    The juice is very much worth the squeeze.

    It’s not with DDHK. I firmly believe he has an incredibly good base kit. The utility is there, the mechanics are there. They just don’t flow together very well.

    As much as I would like to see the regen rate tweaked in an upcoming patch, I don’t think we’re going to see any further adjustments to him unless he gets a dedicated tune up spot. Which as far as I’m concerned would actually be for the better, I would rather they spend some time properly pulling him together than just tweaking the regen rate and feeling justified to call it a day.

    I do believe our concerns are being relayed. Miike and the team have 100% seen the flare up in activity on this thread, and while they do get a lot of flak, I genuinely believe they’re good at relaying our concerns. I don’t think this is in their hands at this point

    To be bluntly honest, I don’t think we’ll see another DDHK buff. Look at the Guillotine fiasco. She is far worse than DDHK, was voted by the community, and had significantly more outcry. She’s barely getting touched.

    It really does come back to the ‘bare minimum’ thing I mentioned. So many buffs, especially recently, have felt like roundabout ways to slap some extra numbers on a kit and call it a day. Because ultimately damage is what matters in the early game, and disappointingly, that’s who these buffs are aimed at. Despite the fact that a champ that is good at high levels of play is also good at lower levels, while a champ targeted at newest players is rarely good at the top end. Just refer to Sersi for a clear example of that

    Another brilliant write up, and we’ve come to expect nothing less from you.

    Though, I do disagree with one thing, and that is Guillotine being far worse than DDHK, and here is why:

    With Guillotine, they didn’t make any changes that made an impact. They traded one thing for another in a linear manner. It’s a net zero with her. Some, will of course argue that she is worse off, while others won’t care and will continue to play her.

    With DDHK, it’s also a net zero. Nobody played him before, and nobody continues to play him. Although they gave him a great base kit, and great mechanics, the regen is a problem. And the fact that the rotation doesn’t flow properly raises one question mark one too many.

    He was unusable, he still is unusable, and this needs to be addressed at the end of the day.

    Otherwise, they’re setting a bad precedent for the buff roadmap.
  • RockypantherxRockypantherx Posts: 3,825 ★★★★★

    I would love to see a DDHK tune up. He’s just some small adjustments away from being an amazing champion, that always active miss counter is a piece of utility that I would rank him for alone

    However, as someone who runs suicides full time, he’s utterly unusable. And while it does make sense for a devout Catholic character to not work well with suicide masteries, it does severely hamper him from a gameplay standpoint.

    Considering we have some ridiculous champions like Ibomb, Diablo and Kingpin, I don’t think setting his regen rate at 100% would be game breaking. If the healing would be too much, I think setting an individual regen rate for the rage debuff is the second best option

    His kit isn’t strong enough to justify being hampered by that regen rate so much. Very few champions have such a significant weakness in their kits. Not even the strongest champs.

    I do also agree with Rookiie. His damage loop, and damage windows are too slim and somewhat complicated. In other words, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Making his playstyle less stressful through increasing durations would go a long way, and upping the values a bit would really bring him into his own

    DDHK is not a bad champion right now. I want to make that clear. In fact, I think he’s quite underrated. But like quite a few of the more recent buffs, it feels like it’s falling short of allowing champ to reach their potential. It’s a frustrating trend to see buffs come through as doing the bare minimum to make the champion somewhat usable, rather than really making champions unique and doing them justice. I understand it’s a small team, and John already has a lot of other roles, but I think I would prefer quite a few less buffs if it meant each champion buff was guaranteed to do the character justice, and make them a useable and useful champ at every level of the game

    Great write up.

    One of the things with DDHK is that he’s a very high skill based champ. That’s one reason I believe the regen rate at 100% is reasonable. As shown above - Corvus can be considered borderline broken when he has Glaive charges up. He heals from double edge and/bleed and shock. And Coldsnap (forgot about that one). 0 damage from those and all willpower healing.
    I don’t think DDHK is as much a high skill champ as he is a high management champ. He has so many aspects to his kit that the player needs to pay attention to in order for his to perform at maximum potential. And even when they do, the payoff is not that large

    Take another high management skill champ: Crossbones. Crossbones takes a bit more skill to pull off than DDHK, but he also has a lot of management in his kit. So why is he considered a very, very good champion? It’s worth it. With that management comes immense damage, over 100% defensive ability accuracy, no crits, and a 90% chance to purify any debuff

    The juice is very much worth the squeeze.

    It’s not with DDHK. I firmly believe he has an incredibly good base kit. The utility is there, the mechanics are there. They just don’t flow together very well.

    As much as I would like to see the regen rate tweaked in an upcoming patch, I don’t think we’re going to see any further adjustments to him unless he gets a dedicated tune up spot. Which as far as I’m concerned would actually be for the better, I would rather they spend some time properly pulling him together than just tweaking the regen rate and feeling justified to call it a day.

    I do believe our concerns are being relayed. Miike and the team have 100% seen the flare up in activity on this thread, and while they do get a lot of flak, I genuinely believe they’re good at relaying our concerns. I don’t think this is in their hands at this point

    To be bluntly honest, I don’t think we’ll see another DDHK buff. Look at the Guillotine fiasco. She is far worse than DDHK, was voted by the community, and had significantly more outcry. She’s barely getting touched.

    It really does come back to the ‘bare minimum’ thing I mentioned. So many buffs, especially recently, have felt like roundabout ways to slap some extra numbers on a kit and call it a day. Because ultimately damage is what matters in the early game, and disappointingly, that’s who these buffs are aimed at. Despite the fact that a champ that is good at high levels of play is also good at lower levels, while a champ targeted at newest players is rarely good at the top end. Just refer to Sersi for a clear example of that
    I think Guilly is a different case. There’s nothing wrong with her other than the perceived effectiveness of her buff.

    DDHK is well….broken with the regen.

    How quickly can it be fixed? When we discussed iHulk’s issue with keeping the rage up, they made the change immediately (no patch) to have his rage paused during opponent specials. That changed him from not useful to what he is. Is he the answer to everything? No. But he’s usable and people like him.

    That’s the impact we can have here. And as @Chobbly has stated many times - it can be done because it has been done before.
    See, I actually think it’s exactly the same case as Guillotine. DDHK isn’t broken. They made a conscious decision to set his regen rate at 40%. It’s not like it’s a bug or unintended interaction.

    It’s just not effective.

    Exactly like Guilly’s buff, especially her regeneration I might add (although I would also argue it failed to meet every single criteria a buff should meet but that is another discussion)

    The issue with comparing it to something like Ihulk is that Ihulk was changed on release. I imagine they had a close eye on his tuning before his release, or they wouldn’t have rolled out that change so quickly. Look how long it took them to roll out a second hood buff which had very minimal changes. I believe Ihulk was an outlier

    Bear in mind that DDHK already received a buff post-release with the addition of his miss counter. I think if they were going to make small tweaks to his kit, the regen rate tweak would have happened then when they just have been deep diving his data.

    I fully support pushing for a buff (obviously, or I wouldn’t be here). But I think we need to be realistic with our expectations as well. Unless he gets another spot on the buff schedule, I really don’t see them revisiting a buff that is a year old at this point
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★

    I would love to see a DDHK tune up. He’s just some small adjustments away from being an amazing champion, that always active miss counter is a piece of utility that I would rank him for alone

    However, as someone who runs suicides full time, he’s utterly unusable. And while it does make sense for a devout Catholic character to not work well with suicide masteries, it does severely hamper him from a gameplay standpoint.

    Considering we have some ridiculous champions like Ibomb, Diablo and Kingpin, I don’t think setting his regen rate at 100% would be game breaking. If the healing would be too much, I think setting an individual regen rate for the rage debuff is the second best option

    His kit isn’t strong enough to justify being hampered by that regen rate so much. Very few champions have such a significant weakness in their kits. Not even the strongest champs.

    I do also agree with Rookiie. His damage loop, and damage windows are too slim and somewhat complicated. In other words, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Making his playstyle less stressful through increasing durations would go a long way, and upping the values a bit would really bring him into his own

    DDHK is not a bad champion right now. I want to make that clear. In fact, I think he’s quite underrated. But like quite a few of the more recent buffs, it feels like it’s falling short of allowing champ to reach their potential. It’s a frustrating trend to see buffs come through as doing the bare minimum to make the champion somewhat usable, rather than really making champions unique and doing them justice. I understand it’s a small team, and John already has a lot of other roles, but I think I would prefer quite a few less buffs if it meant each champion buff was guaranteed to do the character justice, and make them a useable and useful champ at every level of the game

    Great write up.

    One of the things with DDHK is that he’s a very high skill based champ. That’s one reason I believe the regen rate at 100% is reasonable. As shown above - Corvus can be considered borderline broken when he has Glaive charges up. He heals from double edge and/bleed and shock. And Coldsnap (forgot about that one). 0 damage from those and all willpower healing.
    I don’t think DDHK is as much a high skill champ as he is a high management champ. He has so many aspects to his kit that the player needs to pay attention to in order for his to perform at maximum potential. And even when they do, the payoff is not that large

    Take another high management skill champ: Crossbones. Crossbones takes a bit more skill to pull off than DDHK, but he also has a lot of management in his kit. So why is he considered a very, very good champion? It’s worth it. With that management comes immense damage, over 100% defensive ability accuracy, no crits, and a 90% chance to purify any debuff

    The juice is very much worth the squeeze.

    It’s not with DDHK. I firmly believe he has an incredibly good base kit. The utility is there, the mechanics are there. They just don’t flow together very well.

    As much as I would like to see the regen rate tweaked in an upcoming patch, I don’t think we’re going to see any further adjustments to him unless he gets a dedicated tune up spot. Which as far as I’m concerned would actually be for the better, I would rather they spend some time properly pulling him together than just tweaking the regen rate and feeling justified to call it a day.

    I do believe our concerns are being relayed. Miike and the team have 100% seen the flare up in activity on this thread, and while they do get a lot of flak, I genuinely believe they’re good at relaying our concerns. I don’t think this is in their hands at this point

    To be bluntly honest, I don’t think we’ll see another DDHK buff. Look at the Guillotine fiasco. She is far worse than DDHK, was voted by the community, and had significantly more outcry. She’s barely getting touched.

    It really does come back to the ‘bare minimum’ thing I mentioned. So many buffs, especially recently, have felt like roundabout ways to slap some extra numbers on a kit and call it a day. Because ultimately damage is what matters in the early game, and disappointingly, that’s who these buffs are aimed at. Despite the fact that a champ that is good at high levels of play is also good at lower levels, while a champ targeted at newest players is rarely good at the top end. Just refer to Sersi for a clear example of that
    I think Guilly is a different case. There’s nothing wrong with her other than the perceived effectiveness of her buff.

    DDHK is well….broken with the regen.

    How quickly can it be fixed? When we discussed iHulk’s issue with keeping the rage up, they made the change immediately (no patch) to have his rage paused during opponent specials. That changed him from not useful to what he is. Is he the answer to everything? No. But he’s usable and people like him.

    That’s the impact we can have here. And as @Chobbly has stated many times - it can be done because it has been done before.
    See, I actually think it’s exactly the same case as Guillotine. DDHK isn’t broken. They made a conscious decision to set his regen rate at 40%. It’s not like it’s a bug or unintended interaction.

    It’s just not effective.

    Exactly like Guilly’s buff, especially her regeneration I might add (although I would also argue it failed to meet every single criteria a buff should meet but that is another discussion)

    The issue with comparing it to something like Ihulk is that Ihulk was changed on release. I imagine they had a close eye on his tuning before his release, or they wouldn’t have rolled out that change so quickly. Look how long it took them to roll out a second hood buff which had very minimal changes. I believe Ihulk was an outlier

    Bear in mind that DDHK already received a buff post-release with the addition of his miss counter. I think if they were going to make small tweaks to his kit, the regen rate tweak would have happened then when they just have been deep diving his data.

    I fully support pushing for a buff (obviously, or I wouldn’t be here). But I think we need to be realistic with our expectations as well. Unless he gets another spot on the buff schedule, I really don’t see them revisiting a buff that is a year old at this point
    I agree that it was a conscious decision, but it was the first of its kind to set the regen rate that low. I believe looking back it was a bad decision.

    I think we can separate this into two steps.

    1. Adjust the regen rate to normal.

    2. Re-evaluate his effectiveness after the regen rate is set. We can collect the data and make informed opinions after step 1. It may take time.

    @Kabam Miike ?

  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,887 ★★★★★

    I would love to see a DDHK tune up. He’s just some small adjustments away from being an amazing champion, that always active miss counter is a piece of utility that I would rank him for alone

    However, as someone who runs suicides full time, he’s utterly unusable. And while it does make sense for a devout Catholic character to not work well with suicide masteries, it does severely hamper him from a gameplay standpoint.

    Considering we have some ridiculous champions like Ibomb, Diablo and Kingpin, I don’t think setting his regen rate at 100% would be game breaking. If the healing would be too much, I think setting an individual regen rate for the rage debuff is the second best option

    His kit isn’t strong enough to justify being hampered by that regen rate so much. Very few champions have such a significant weakness in their kits. Not even the strongest champs.

    I do also agree with Rookiie. His damage loop, and damage windows are too slim and somewhat complicated. In other words, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Making his playstyle less stressful through increasing durations would go a long way, and upping the values a bit would really bring him into his own

    DDHK is not a bad champion right now. I want to make that clear. In fact, I think he’s quite underrated. But like quite a few of the more recent buffs, it feels like it’s falling short of allowing champ to reach their potential. It’s a frustrating trend to see buffs come through as doing the bare minimum to make the champion somewhat usable, rather than really making champions unique and doing them justice. I understand it’s a small team, and John already has a lot of other roles, but I think I would prefer quite a few less buffs if it meant each champion buff was guaranteed to do the character justice, and make them a useable and useful champ at every level of the game

    Great write up.

    One of the things with DDHK is that he’s a very high skill based champ. That’s one reason I believe the regen rate at 100% is reasonable. As shown above - Corvus can be considered borderline broken when he has Glaive charges up. He heals from double edge and/bleed and shock. And Coldsnap (forgot about that one). 0 damage from those and all willpower healing.
    I don’t think DDHK is as much a high skill champ as he is a high management champ. He has so many aspects to his kit that the player needs to pay attention to in order for his to perform at maximum potential. And even when they do, the payoff is not that large

    Take another high management skill champ: Crossbones. Crossbones takes a bit more skill to pull off than DDHK, but he also has a lot of management in his kit. So why is he considered a very, very good champion? It’s worth it. With that management comes immense damage, over 100% defensive ability accuracy, no crits, and a 90% chance to purify any debuff

    The juice is very much worth the squeeze.

    It’s not with DDHK. I firmly believe he has an incredibly good base kit. The utility is there, the mechanics are there. They just don’t flow together very well.

    As much as I would like to see the regen rate tweaked in an upcoming patch, I don’t think we’re going to see any further adjustments to him unless he gets a dedicated tune up spot. Which as far as I’m concerned would actually be for the better, I would rather they spend some time properly pulling him together than just tweaking the regen rate and feeling justified to call it a day.

    I do believe our concerns are being relayed. Miike and the team have 100% seen the flare up in activity on this thread, and while they do get a lot of flak, I genuinely believe they’re good at relaying our concerns. I don’t think this is in their hands at this point

    To be bluntly honest, I don’t think we’ll see another DDHK buff. Look at the Guillotine fiasco. She is far worse than DDHK, was voted by the community, and had significantly more outcry. She’s barely getting touched.

    It really does come back to the ‘bare minimum’ thing I mentioned. So many buffs, especially recently, have felt like roundabout ways to slap some extra numbers on a kit and call it a day. Because ultimately damage is what matters in the early game, and disappointingly, that’s who these buffs are aimed at. Despite the fact that a champ that is good at high levels of play is also good at lower levels, while a champ targeted at newest players is rarely good at the top end. Just refer to Sersi for a clear example of that
    I think Guilly is a different case. There’s nothing wrong with her other than the perceived effectiveness of her buff.

    DDHK is well….broken with the regen.

    How quickly can it be fixed? When we discussed iHulk’s issue with keeping the rage up, they made the change immediately (no patch) to have his rage paused during opponent specials. That changed him from not useful to what he is. Is he the answer to everything? No. But he’s usable and people like him.

    That’s the impact we can have here. And as @Chobbly has stated many times - it can be done because it has been done before.
    See, I actually think it’s exactly the same case as Guillotine. DDHK isn’t broken. They made a conscious decision to set his regen rate at 40%. It’s not like it’s a bug or unintended interaction.

    It’s just not effective.

    Exactly like Guilly’s buff, especially her regeneration I might add (although I would also argue it failed to meet every single criteria a buff should meet but that is another discussion)

    The issue with comparing it to something like Ihulk is that Ihulk was changed on release. I imagine they had a close eye on his tuning before his release, or they wouldn’t have rolled out that change so quickly. Look how long it took them to roll out a second hood buff which had very minimal changes. I believe Ihulk was an outlier

    Bear in mind that DDHK already received a buff post-release with the addition of his miss counter. I think if they were going to make small tweaks to his kit, the regen rate tweak would have happened then when they just have been deep diving his data.

    I fully support pushing for a buff (obviously, or I wouldn’t be here). But I think we need to be realistic with our expectations as well. Unless he gets another spot on the buff schedule, I really don’t see them revisiting a buff that is a year old at this point

    I don’t think there should be an issue with adding DDHK to one of the slots in next year’s cadence. Remember, they released Moleman, Kingpin, Angela and Falcon all on the same month. Look how that turned out for all of them. It was an incredible piece of work from Kabam.
    DDHK’s slot doesn’t need to come at the expense of another champion. We already know what needs to be done, and it’s not much. The kit is there, the mechanics are there, everything just needs to flow together. Regen, AND more uptime on the parts where his kit shines. That’s all.
  • GrandOldKaiGrandOldKai Posts: 545 ★★★
    Is it safe to say his interaction with suicides and Willpower is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation?

    If you don't run suicides, you get free regen from Rage, but lose out on damage

    if you DO run suicides, you get damage, but you take a lot more damage than you heal


    Hmm, I feel like they should dedicate a month to looking at DDHK and Guillotine to see what is needed to make them better.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    Rookiie said:

    I would love to see a DDHK tune up. He’s just some small adjustments away from being an amazing champion, that always active miss counter is a piece of utility that I would rank him for alone

    However, as someone who runs suicides full time, he’s utterly unusable. And while it does make sense for a devout Catholic character to not work well with suicide masteries, it does severely hamper him from a gameplay standpoint.

    Considering we have some ridiculous champions like Ibomb, Diablo and Kingpin, I don’t think setting his regen rate at 100% would be game breaking. If the healing would be too much, I think setting an individual regen rate for the rage debuff is the second best option

    His kit isn’t strong enough to justify being hampered by that regen rate so much. Very few champions have such a significant weakness in their kits. Not even the strongest champs.

    I do also agree with Rookiie. His damage loop, and damage windows are too slim and somewhat complicated. In other words, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Making his playstyle less stressful through increasing durations would go a long way, and upping the values a bit would really bring him into his own

    DDHK is not a bad champion right now. I want to make that clear. In fact, I think he’s quite underrated. But like quite a few of the more recent buffs, it feels like it’s falling short of allowing champ to reach their potential. It’s a frustrating trend to see buffs come through as doing the bare minimum to make the champion somewhat usable, rather than really making champions unique and doing them justice. I understand it’s a small team, and John already has a lot of other roles, but I think I would prefer quite a few less buffs if it meant each champion buff was guaranteed to do the character justice, and make them a useable and useful champ at every level of the game

    Great write up.

    One of the things with DDHK is that he’s a very high skill based champ. That’s one reason I believe the regen rate at 100% is reasonable. As shown above - Corvus can be considered borderline broken when he has Glaive charges up. He heals from double edge and/bleed and shock. And Coldsnap (forgot about that one). 0 damage from those and all willpower healing.
    I don’t think DDHK is as much a high skill champ as he is a high management champ. He has so many aspects to his kit that the player needs to pay attention to in order for his to perform at maximum potential. And even when they do, the payoff is not that large

    Take another high management skill champ: Crossbones. Crossbones takes a bit more skill to pull off than DDHK, but he also has a lot of management in his kit. So why is he considered a very, very good champion? It’s worth it. With that management comes immense damage, over 100% defensive ability accuracy, no crits, and a 90% chance to purify any debuff

    The juice is very much worth the squeeze.

    It’s not with DDHK. I firmly believe he has an incredibly good base kit. The utility is there, the mechanics are there. They just don’t flow together very well.

    As much as I would like to see the regen rate tweaked in an upcoming patch, I don’t think we’re going to see any further adjustments to him unless he gets a dedicated tune up spot. Which as far as I’m concerned would actually be for the better, I would rather they spend some time properly pulling him together than just tweaking the regen rate and feeling justified to call it a day.

    I do believe our concerns are being relayed. Miike and the team have 100% seen the flare up in activity on this thread, and while they do get a lot of flak, I genuinely believe they’re good at relaying our concerns. I don’t think this is in their hands at this point

    To be bluntly honest, I don’t think we’ll see another DDHK buff. Look at the Guillotine fiasco. She is far worse than DDHK, was voted by the community, and had significantly more outcry. She’s barely getting touched.

    It really does come back to the ‘bare minimum’ thing I mentioned. So many buffs, especially recently, have felt like roundabout ways to slap some extra numbers on a kit and call it a day. Because ultimately damage is what matters in the early game, and disappointingly, that’s who these buffs are aimed at. Despite the fact that a champ that is good at high levels of play is also good at lower levels, while a champ targeted at newest players is rarely good at the top end. Just refer to Sersi for a clear example of that
    I think Guilly is a different case. There’s nothing wrong with her other than the perceived effectiveness of her buff.

    DDHK is well….broken with the regen.

    How quickly can it be fixed? When we discussed iHulk’s issue with keeping the rage up, they made the change immediately (no patch) to have his rage paused during opponent specials. That changed him from not useful to what he is. Is he the answer to everything? No. But he’s usable and people like him.

    That’s the impact we can have here. And as @Chobbly has stated many times - it can be done because it has been done before.
    See, I actually think it’s exactly the same case as Guillotine. DDHK isn’t broken. They made a conscious decision to set his regen rate at 40%. It’s not like it’s a bug or unintended interaction.

    It’s just not effective.

    Exactly like Guilly’s buff, especially her regeneration I might add (although I would also argue it failed to meet every single criteria a buff should meet but that is another discussion)

    The issue with comparing it to something like Ihulk is that Ihulk was changed on release. I imagine they had a close eye on his tuning before his release, or they wouldn’t have rolled out that change so quickly. Look how long it took them to roll out a second hood buff which had very minimal changes. I believe Ihulk was an outlier

    Bear in mind that DDHK already received a buff post-release with the addition of his miss counter. I think if they were going to make small tweaks to his kit, the regen rate tweak would have happened then when they just have been deep diving his data.

    I fully support pushing for a buff (obviously, or I wouldn’t be here). But I think we need to be realistic with our expectations as well. Unless he gets another spot on the buff schedule, I really don’t see them revisiting a buff that is a year old at this point

    I don’t think there should be an issue with adding DDHK to one of the slots in next year’s cadence. Remember, they released Moleman, Kingpin, Angela and Falcon all on the same month. Look how that turned out for all of them. It was an incredible piece of work from Kabam.
    DDHK’s slot doesn’t need to come at the expense of another champion. We already know what needs to be done, and it’s not much. The kit is there, the mechanics are there, everything just needs to flow together. Regen, AND more uptime on the parts where his kit shines. That’s all.
    I think separating it into 2 parts like I wrote above is the way to go. Satisfy the community now with the regen and then review how it affects him.

    After his regen is restored we can review the damage and scale it so he’s where he needs to be.

    Kabam can’t leave him like this. It’s cruel and unusual punishment to Matt Murdock.

    He’s a lawyer! He knows the laws
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,887 ★★★★★
    edited December 2021

    Rookiie said:

    I would love to see a DDHK tune up. He’s just some small adjustments away from being an amazing champion, that always active miss counter is a piece of utility that I would rank him for alone

    However, as someone who runs suicides full time, he’s utterly unusable. And while it does make sense for a devout Catholic character to not work well with suicide masteries, it does severely hamper him from a gameplay standpoint.

    Considering we have some ridiculous champions like Ibomb, Diablo and Kingpin, I don’t think setting his regen rate at 100% would be game breaking. If the healing would be too much, I think setting an individual regen rate for the rage debuff is the second best option

    His kit isn’t strong enough to justify being hampered by that regen rate so much. Very few champions have such a significant weakness in their kits. Not even the strongest champs.

    I do also agree with Rookiie. His damage loop, and damage windows are too slim and somewhat complicated. In other words, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Making his playstyle less stressful through increasing durations would go a long way, and upping the values a bit would really bring him into his own

    DDHK is not a bad champion right now. I want to make that clear. In fact, I think he’s quite underrated. But like quite a few of the more recent buffs, it feels like it’s falling short of allowing champ to reach their potential. It’s a frustrating trend to see buffs come through as doing the bare minimum to make the champion somewhat usable, rather than really making champions unique and doing them justice. I understand it’s a small team, and John already has a lot of other roles, but I think I would prefer quite a few less buffs if it meant each champion buff was guaranteed to do the character justice, and make them a useable and useful champ at every level of the game

    Great write up.

    One of the things with DDHK is that he’s a very high skill based champ. That’s one reason I believe the regen rate at 100% is reasonable. As shown above - Corvus can be considered borderline broken when he has Glaive charges up. He heals from double edge and/bleed and shock. And Coldsnap (forgot about that one). 0 damage from those and all willpower healing.
    I don’t think DDHK is as much a high skill champ as he is a high management champ. He has so many aspects to his kit that the player needs to pay attention to in order for his to perform at maximum potential. And even when they do, the payoff is not that large

    Take another high management skill champ: Crossbones. Crossbones takes a bit more skill to pull off than DDHK, but he also has a lot of management in his kit. So why is he considered a very, very good champion? It’s worth it. With that management comes immense damage, over 100% defensive ability accuracy, no crits, and a 90% chance to purify any debuff

    The juice is very much worth the squeeze.

    It’s not with DDHK. I firmly believe he has an incredibly good base kit. The utility is there, the mechanics are there. They just don’t flow together very well.

    As much as I would like to see the regen rate tweaked in an upcoming patch, I don’t think we’re going to see any further adjustments to him unless he gets a dedicated tune up spot. Which as far as I’m concerned would actually be for the better, I would rather they spend some time properly pulling him together than just tweaking the regen rate and feeling justified to call it a day.

    I do believe our concerns are being relayed. Miike and the team have 100% seen the flare up in activity on this thread, and while they do get a lot of flak, I genuinely believe they’re good at relaying our concerns. I don’t think this is in their hands at this point

    To be bluntly honest, I don’t think we’ll see another DDHK buff. Look at the Guillotine fiasco. She is far worse than DDHK, was voted by the community, and had significantly more outcry. She’s barely getting touched.

    It really does come back to the ‘bare minimum’ thing I mentioned. So many buffs, especially recently, have felt like roundabout ways to slap some extra numbers on a kit and call it a day. Because ultimately damage is what matters in the early game, and disappointingly, that’s who these buffs are aimed at. Despite the fact that a champ that is good at high levels of play is also good at lower levels, while a champ targeted at newest players is rarely good at the top end. Just refer to Sersi for a clear example of that
    I think Guilly is a different case. There’s nothing wrong with her other than the perceived effectiveness of her buff.

    DDHK is well….broken with the regen.

    How quickly can it be fixed? When we discussed iHulk’s issue with keeping the rage up, they made the change immediately (no patch) to have his rage paused during opponent specials. That changed him from not useful to what he is. Is he the answer to everything? No. But he’s usable and people like him.

    That’s the impact we can have here. And as @Chobbly has stated many times - it can be done because it has been done before.
    See, I actually think it’s exactly the same case as Guillotine. DDHK isn’t broken. They made a conscious decision to set his regen rate at 40%. It’s not like it’s a bug or unintended interaction.

    It’s just not effective.

    Exactly like Guilly’s buff, especially her regeneration I might add (although I would also argue it failed to meet every single criteria a buff should meet but that is another discussion)

    The issue with comparing it to something like Ihulk is that Ihulk was changed on release. I imagine they had a close eye on his tuning before his release, or they wouldn’t have rolled out that change so quickly. Look how long it took them to roll out a second hood buff which had very minimal changes. I believe Ihulk was an outlier

    Bear in mind that DDHK already received a buff post-release with the addition of his miss counter. I think if they were going to make small tweaks to his kit, the regen rate tweak would have happened then when they just have been deep diving his data.

    I fully support pushing for a buff (obviously, or I wouldn’t be here). But I think we need to be realistic with our expectations as well. Unless he gets another spot on the buff schedule, I really don’t see them revisiting a buff that is a year old at this point

    I don’t think there should be an issue with adding DDHK to one of the slots in next year’s cadence. Remember, they released Moleman, Kingpin, Angela and Falcon all on the same month. Look how that turned out for all of them. It was an incredible piece of work from Kabam.
    DDHK’s slot doesn’t need to come at the expense of another champion. We already know what needs to be done, and it’s not much. The kit is there, the mechanics are there, everything just needs to flow together. Regen, AND more uptime on the parts where his kit shines. That’s all.
    I think separating it into 2 parts like I wrote above is the way to go. Satisfy the community now with the regen and then review how it affects him.

    After his regen is restored we can review the damage and scale it so he’s where he needs to be.

    Kabam can’t leave him like this. It’s cruel and unusual punishment to Matt Murdock.

    He’s a lawyer! He knows the laws

    I’ll settle for anything at this point, but unfortunately if only the regen gets fixed then the non-suicide users will still feel shortchanged. I think they should get it done right once and for all. That’s just me though.
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 417 ★★★
    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    I would love to see a DDHK tune up. He’s just some small adjustments away from being an amazing champion, that always active miss counter is a piece of utility that I would rank him for alone

    However, as someone who runs suicides full time, he’s utterly unusable. And while it does make sense for a devout Catholic character to not work well with suicide masteries, it does severely hamper him from a gameplay standpoint.

    Considering we have some ridiculous champions like Ibomb, Diablo and Kingpin, I don’t think setting his regen rate at 100% would be game breaking. If the healing would be too much, I think setting an individual regen rate for the rage debuff is the second best option

    His kit isn’t strong enough to justify being hampered by that regen rate so much. Very few champions have such a significant weakness in their kits. Not even the strongest champs.

    I do also agree with Rookiie. His damage loop, and damage windows are too slim and somewhat complicated. In other words, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Making his playstyle less stressful through increasing durations would go a long way, and upping the values a bit would really bring him into his own

    DDHK is not a bad champion right now. I want to make that clear. In fact, I think he’s quite underrated. But like quite a few of the more recent buffs, it feels like it’s falling short of allowing champ to reach their potential. It’s a frustrating trend to see buffs come through as doing the bare minimum to make the champion somewhat usable, rather than really making champions unique and doing them justice. I understand it’s a small team, and John already has a lot of other roles, but I think I would prefer quite a few less buffs if it meant each champion buff was guaranteed to do the character justice, and make them a useable and useful champ at every level of the game

    Great write up.

    One of the things with DDHK is that he’s a very high skill based champ. That’s one reason I believe the regen rate at 100% is reasonable. As shown above - Corvus can be considered borderline broken when he has Glaive charges up. He heals from double edge and/bleed and shock. And Coldsnap (forgot about that one). 0 damage from those and all willpower healing.
    I don’t think DDHK is as much a high skill champ as he is a high management champ. He has so many aspects to his kit that the player needs to pay attention to in order for his to perform at maximum potential. And even when they do, the payoff is not that large

    Take another high management skill champ: Crossbones. Crossbones takes a bit more skill to pull off than DDHK, but he also has a lot of management in his kit. So why is he considered a very, very good champion? It’s worth it. With that management comes immense damage, over 100% defensive ability accuracy, no crits, and a 90% chance to purify any debuff

    The juice is very much worth the squeeze.

    It’s not with DDHK. I firmly believe he has an incredibly good base kit. The utility is there, the mechanics are there. They just don’t flow together very well.

    As much as I would like to see the regen rate tweaked in an upcoming patch, I don’t think we’re going to see any further adjustments to him unless he gets a dedicated tune up spot. Which as far as I’m concerned would actually be for the better, I would rather they spend some time properly pulling him together than just tweaking the regen rate and feeling justified to call it a day.

    I do believe our concerns are being relayed. Miike and the team have 100% seen the flare up in activity on this thread, and while they do get a lot of flak, I genuinely believe they’re good at relaying our concerns. I don’t think this is in their hands at this point

    To be bluntly honest, I don’t think we’ll see another DDHK buff. Look at the Guillotine fiasco. She is far worse than DDHK, was voted by the community, and had significantly more outcry. She’s barely getting touched.

    It really does come back to the ‘bare minimum’ thing I mentioned. So many buffs, especially recently, have felt like roundabout ways to slap some extra numbers on a kit and call it a day. Because ultimately damage is what matters in the early game, and disappointingly, that’s who these buffs are aimed at. Despite the fact that a champ that is good at high levels of play is also good at lower levels, while a champ targeted at newest players is rarely good at the top end. Just refer to Sersi for a clear example of that
    I think Guilly is a different case. There’s nothing wrong with her other than the perceived effectiveness of her buff.

    DDHK is well….broken with the regen.

    How quickly can it be fixed? When we discussed iHulk’s issue with keeping the rage up, they made the change immediately (no patch) to have his rage paused during opponent specials. That changed him from not useful to what he is. Is he the answer to everything? No. But he’s usable and people like him.

    That’s the impact we can have here. And as @Chobbly has stated many times - it can be done because it has been done before.
    See, I actually think it’s exactly the same case as Guillotine. DDHK isn’t broken. They made a conscious decision to set his regen rate at 40%. It’s not like it’s a bug or unintended interaction.

    It’s just not effective.

    Exactly like Guilly’s buff, especially her regeneration I might add (although I would also argue it failed to meet every single criteria a buff should meet but that is another discussion)

    The issue with comparing it to something like Ihulk is that Ihulk was changed on release. I imagine they had a close eye on his tuning before his release, or they wouldn’t have rolled out that change so quickly. Look how long it took them to roll out a second hood buff which had very minimal changes. I believe Ihulk was an outlier

    Bear in mind that DDHK already received a buff post-release with the addition of his miss counter. I think if they were going to make small tweaks to his kit, the regen rate tweak would have happened then when they just have been deep diving his data.

    I fully support pushing for a buff (obviously, or I wouldn’t be here). But I think we need to be realistic with our expectations as well. Unless he gets another spot on the buff schedule, I really don’t see them revisiting a buff that is a year old at this point

    I don’t think there should be an issue with adding DDHK to one of the slots in next year’s cadence. Remember, they released Moleman, Kingpin, Angela and Falcon all on the same month. Look how that turned out for all of them. It was an incredible piece of work from Kabam.
    DDHK’s slot doesn’t need to come at the expense of another champion. We already know what needs to be done, and it’s not much. The kit is there, the mechanics are there, everything just needs to flow together. Regen, AND more uptime on the parts where his kit shines. That’s all.
    I think separating it into 2 parts like I wrote above is the way to go. Satisfy the community now with the regen and then review how it affects him.

    After his regen is restored we can review the damage and scale it so he’s where he needs to be.

    Kabam can’t leave him like this. It’s cruel and unusual punishment to Matt Murdock.

    He’s a lawyer! He knows the laws

    I’ll settle for anything at this point, but unfortunately if the regen gets fixed then the non-suicide users will still feel shortchanged. I think they should get it done right once and for all. That’s just me though.
    Funny thing is I'm a non suicide user. Yes, I won't benefit as much but if we get the Regen Rate sorted out I for one won't feel short-changed. It'll be in the best interests of the kit for everyone.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,887 ★★★★★
    Chobbly said:

    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    I would love to see a DDHK tune up. He’s just some small adjustments away from being an amazing champion, that always active miss counter is a piece of utility that I would rank him for alone

    However, as someone who runs suicides full time, he’s utterly unusable. And while it does make sense for a devout Catholic character to not work well with suicide masteries, it does severely hamper him from a gameplay standpoint.

    Considering we have some ridiculous champions like Ibomb, Diablo and Kingpin, I don’t think setting his regen rate at 100% would be game breaking. If the healing would be too much, I think setting an individual regen rate for the rage debuff is the second best option

    His kit isn’t strong enough to justify being hampered by that regen rate so much. Very few champions have such a significant weakness in their kits. Not even the strongest champs.

    I do also agree with Rookiie. His damage loop, and damage windows are too slim and somewhat complicated. In other words, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Making his playstyle less stressful through increasing durations would go a long way, and upping the values a bit would really bring him into his own

    DDHK is not a bad champion right now. I want to make that clear. In fact, I think he’s quite underrated. But like quite a few of the more recent buffs, it feels like it’s falling short of allowing champ to reach their potential. It’s a frustrating trend to see buffs come through as doing the bare minimum to make the champion somewhat usable, rather than really making champions unique and doing them justice. I understand it’s a small team, and John already has a lot of other roles, but I think I would prefer quite a few less buffs if it meant each champion buff was guaranteed to do the character justice, and make them a useable and useful champ at every level of the game

    Great write up.

    One of the things with DDHK is that he’s a very high skill based champ. That’s one reason I believe the regen rate at 100% is reasonable. As shown above - Corvus can be considered borderline broken when he has Glaive charges up. He heals from double edge and/bleed and shock. And Coldsnap (forgot about that one). 0 damage from those and all willpower healing.
    I don’t think DDHK is as much a high skill champ as he is a high management champ. He has so many aspects to his kit that the player needs to pay attention to in order for his to perform at maximum potential. And even when they do, the payoff is not that large

    Take another high management skill champ: Crossbones. Crossbones takes a bit more skill to pull off than DDHK, but he also has a lot of management in his kit. So why is he considered a very, very good champion? It’s worth it. With that management comes immense damage, over 100% defensive ability accuracy, no crits, and a 90% chance to purify any debuff

    The juice is very much worth the squeeze.

    It’s not with DDHK. I firmly believe he has an incredibly good base kit. The utility is there, the mechanics are there. They just don’t flow together very well.

    As much as I would like to see the regen rate tweaked in an upcoming patch, I don’t think we’re going to see any further adjustments to him unless he gets a dedicated tune up spot. Which as far as I’m concerned would actually be for the better, I would rather they spend some time properly pulling him together than just tweaking the regen rate and feeling justified to call it a day.

    I do believe our concerns are being relayed. Miike and the team have 100% seen the flare up in activity on this thread, and while they do get a lot of flak, I genuinely believe they’re good at relaying our concerns. I don’t think this is in their hands at this point

    To be bluntly honest, I don’t think we’ll see another DDHK buff. Look at the Guillotine fiasco. She is far worse than DDHK, was voted by the community, and had significantly more outcry. She’s barely getting touched.

    It really does come back to the ‘bare minimum’ thing I mentioned. So many buffs, especially recently, have felt like roundabout ways to slap some extra numbers on a kit and call it a day. Because ultimately damage is what matters in the early game, and disappointingly, that’s who these buffs are aimed at. Despite the fact that a champ that is good at high levels of play is also good at lower levels, while a champ targeted at newest players is rarely good at the top end. Just refer to Sersi for a clear example of that
    I think Guilly is a different case. There’s nothing wrong with her other than the perceived effectiveness of her buff.

    DDHK is well….broken with the regen.

    How quickly can it be fixed? When we discussed iHulk’s issue with keeping the rage up, they made the change immediately (no patch) to have his rage paused during opponent specials. That changed him from not useful to what he is. Is he the answer to everything? No. But he’s usable and people like him.

    That’s the impact we can have here. And as @Chobbly has stated many times - it can be done because it has been done before.
    See, I actually think it’s exactly the same case as Guillotine. DDHK isn’t broken. They made a conscious decision to set his regen rate at 40%. It’s not like it’s a bug or unintended interaction.

    It’s just not effective.

    Exactly like Guilly’s buff, especially her regeneration I might add (although I would also argue it failed to meet every single criteria a buff should meet but that is another discussion)

    The issue with comparing it to something like Ihulk is that Ihulk was changed on release. I imagine they had a close eye on his tuning before his release, or they wouldn’t have rolled out that change so quickly. Look how long it took them to roll out a second hood buff which had very minimal changes. I believe Ihulk was an outlier

    Bear in mind that DDHK already received a buff post-release with the addition of his miss counter. I think if they were going to make small tweaks to his kit, the regen rate tweak would have happened then when they just have been deep diving his data.

    I fully support pushing for a buff (obviously, or I wouldn’t be here). But I think we need to be realistic with our expectations as well. Unless he gets another spot on the buff schedule, I really don’t see them revisiting a buff that is a year old at this point

    I don’t think there should be an issue with adding DDHK to one of the slots in next year’s cadence. Remember, they released Moleman, Kingpin, Angela and Falcon all on the same month. Look how that turned out for all of them. It was an incredible piece of work from Kabam.
    DDHK’s slot doesn’t need to come at the expense of another champion. We already know what needs to be done, and it’s not much. The kit is there, the mechanics are there, everything just needs to flow together. Regen, AND more uptime on the parts where his kit shines. That’s all.
    I think separating it into 2 parts like I wrote above is the way to go. Satisfy the community now with the regen and then review how it affects him.

    After his regen is restored we can review the damage and scale it so he’s where he needs to be.

    Kabam can’t leave him like this. It’s cruel and unusual punishment to Matt Murdock.

    He’s a lawyer! He knows the laws

    I’ll settle for anything at this point, but unfortunately if the regen gets fixed then the non-suicide users will still feel shortchanged. I think they should get it done right once and for all. That’s just me though.
    Funny thing is I'm a non suicide user. Yes, I won't benefit as much but if we get the Regen Rate sorted out I for one won't feel short-changed. It'll be in the best interests of the kit for everyone.

    I’m not debating that its going to be in the best interests of everyone. I’m just saying it’s one of two problems. And the first problem affects suicide users. But when that gets fixed, he’s going to regen like a monster and they won’t complain about damage because they won’t need the duration to be increased. See what I mean?
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    I would love to see a DDHK tune up. He’s just some small adjustments away from being an amazing champion, that always active miss counter is a piece of utility that I would rank him for alone

    However, as someone who runs suicides full time, he’s utterly unusable. And while it does make sense for a devout Catholic character to not work well with suicide masteries, it does severely hamper him from a gameplay standpoint.

    Considering we have some ridiculous champions like Ibomb, Diablo and Kingpin, I don’t think setting his regen rate at 100% would be game breaking. If the healing would be too much, I think setting an individual regen rate for the rage debuff is the second best option

    His kit isn’t strong enough to justify being hampered by that regen rate so much. Very few champions have such a significant weakness in their kits. Not even the strongest champs.

    I do also agree with Rookiie. His damage loop, and damage windows are too slim and somewhat complicated. In other words, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Making his playstyle less stressful through increasing durations would go a long way, and upping the values a bit would really bring him into his own

    DDHK is not a bad champion right now. I want to make that clear. In fact, I think he’s quite underrated. But like quite a few of the more recent buffs, it feels like it’s falling short of allowing champ to reach their potential. It’s a frustrating trend to see buffs come through as doing the bare minimum to make the champion somewhat usable, rather than really making champions unique and doing them justice. I understand it’s a small team, and John already has a lot of other roles, but I think I would prefer quite a few less buffs if it meant each champion buff was guaranteed to do the character justice, and make them a useable and useful champ at every level of the game

    Great write up.

    One of the things with DDHK is that he’s a very high skill based champ. That’s one reason I believe the regen rate at 100% is reasonable. As shown above - Corvus can be considered borderline broken when he has Glaive charges up. He heals from double edge and/bleed and shock. And Coldsnap (forgot about that one). 0 damage from those and all willpower healing.
    I don’t think DDHK is as much a high skill champ as he is a high management champ. He has so many aspects to his kit that the player needs to pay attention to in order for his to perform at maximum potential. And even when they do, the payoff is not that large

    Take another high management skill champ: Crossbones. Crossbones takes a bit more skill to pull off than DDHK, but he also has a lot of management in his kit. So why is he considered a very, very good champion? It’s worth it. With that management comes immense damage, over 100% defensive ability accuracy, no crits, and a 90% chance to purify any debuff

    The juice is very much worth the squeeze.

    It’s not with DDHK. I firmly believe he has an incredibly good base kit. The utility is there, the mechanics are there. They just don’t flow together very well.

    As much as I would like to see the regen rate tweaked in an upcoming patch, I don’t think we’re going to see any further adjustments to him unless he gets a dedicated tune up spot. Which as far as I’m concerned would actually be for the better, I would rather they spend some time properly pulling him together than just tweaking the regen rate and feeling justified to call it a day.

    I do believe our concerns are being relayed. Miike and the team have 100% seen the flare up in activity on this thread, and while they do get a lot of flak, I genuinely believe they’re good at relaying our concerns. I don’t think this is in their hands at this point

    To be bluntly honest, I don’t think we’ll see another DDHK buff. Look at the Guillotine fiasco. She is far worse than DDHK, was voted by the community, and had significantly more outcry. She’s barely getting touched.

    It really does come back to the ‘bare minimum’ thing I mentioned. So many buffs, especially recently, have felt like roundabout ways to slap some extra numbers on a kit and call it a day. Because ultimately damage is what matters in the early game, and disappointingly, that’s who these buffs are aimed at. Despite the fact that a champ that is good at high levels of play is also good at lower levels, while a champ targeted at newest players is rarely good at the top end. Just refer to Sersi for a clear example of that
    I think Guilly is a different case. There’s nothing wrong with her other than the perceived effectiveness of her buff.

    DDHK is well….broken with the regen.

    How quickly can it be fixed? When we discussed iHulk’s issue with keeping the rage up, they made the change immediately (no patch) to have his rage paused during opponent specials. That changed him from not useful to what he is. Is he the answer to everything? No. But he’s usable and people like him.

    That’s the impact we can have here. And as @Chobbly has stated many times - it can be done because it has been done before.
    See, I actually think it’s exactly the same case as Guillotine. DDHK isn’t broken. They made a conscious decision to set his regen rate at 40%. It’s not like it’s a bug or unintended interaction.

    It’s just not effective.

    Exactly like Guilly’s buff, especially her regeneration I might add (although I would also argue it failed to meet every single criteria a buff should meet but that is another discussion)

    The issue with comparing it to something like Ihulk is that Ihulk was changed on release. I imagine they had a close eye on his tuning before his release, or they wouldn’t have rolled out that change so quickly. Look how long it took them to roll out a second hood buff which had very minimal changes. I believe Ihulk was an outlier

    Bear in mind that DDHK already received a buff post-release with the addition of his miss counter. I think if they were going to make small tweaks to his kit, the regen rate tweak would have happened then when they just have been deep diving his data.

    I fully support pushing for a buff (obviously, or I wouldn’t be here). But I think we need to be realistic with our expectations as well. Unless he gets another spot on the buff schedule, I really don’t see them revisiting a buff that is a year old at this point

    I don’t think there should be an issue with adding DDHK to one of the slots in next year’s cadence. Remember, they released Moleman, Kingpin, Angela and Falcon all on the same month. Look how that turned out for all of them. It was an incredible piece of work from Kabam.
    DDHK’s slot doesn’t need to come at the expense of another champion. We already know what needs to be done, and it’s not much. The kit is there, the mechanics are there, everything just needs to flow together. Regen, AND more uptime on the parts where his kit shines. That’s all.
    I think separating it into 2 parts like I wrote above is the way to go. Satisfy the community now with the regen and then review how it affects him.

    After his regen is restored we can review the damage and scale it so he’s where he needs to be.

    Kabam can’t leave him like this. It’s cruel and unusual punishment to Matt Murdock.

    He’s a lawyer! He knows the laws

    I’ll settle for anything at this point, but unfortunately if only the regen gets fixed then the non-suicide users will still feel shortchanged. I think they should get it done right once and for all. That’s just me though.
    I think fixing one thing at a time is reasonable. Otherwise we need to wait for a buff.

    We’ve seen before that some things can be done overnight. Instead of waiting 6 more months we can ask for regen - which is the major issue, and then look after the damage. The other major issue.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    Chobbly said:

    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    I would love to see a DDHK tune up. He’s just some small adjustments away from being an amazing champion, that always active miss counter is a piece of utility that I would rank him for alone

    However, as someone who runs suicides full time, he’s utterly unusable. And while it does make sense for a devout Catholic character to not work well with suicide masteries, it does severely hamper him from a gameplay standpoint.

    Considering we have some ridiculous champions like Ibomb, Diablo and Kingpin, I don’t think setting his regen rate at 100% would be game breaking. If the healing would be too much, I think setting an individual regen rate for the rage debuff is the second best option

    His kit isn’t strong enough to justify being hampered by that regen rate so much. Very few champions have such a significant weakness in their kits. Not even the strongest champs.

    I do also agree with Rookiie. His damage loop, and damage windows are too slim and somewhat complicated. In other words, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Making his playstyle less stressful through increasing durations would go a long way, and upping the values a bit would really bring him into his own

    DDHK is not a bad champion right now. I want to make that clear. In fact, I think he’s quite underrated. But like quite a few of the more recent buffs, it feels like it’s falling short of allowing champ to reach their potential. It’s a frustrating trend to see buffs come through as doing the bare minimum to make the champion somewhat usable, rather than really making champions unique and doing them justice. I understand it’s a small team, and John already has a lot of other roles, but I think I would prefer quite a few less buffs if it meant each champion buff was guaranteed to do the character justice, and make them a useable and useful champ at every level of the game

    Great write up.

    One of the things with DDHK is that he’s a very high skill based champ. That’s one reason I believe the regen rate at 100% is reasonable. As shown above - Corvus can be considered borderline broken when he has Glaive charges up. He heals from double edge and/bleed and shock. And Coldsnap (forgot about that one). 0 damage from those and all willpower healing.
    I don’t think DDHK is as much a high skill champ as he is a high management champ. He has so many aspects to his kit that the player needs to pay attention to in order for his to perform at maximum potential. And even when they do, the payoff is not that large

    Take another high management skill champ: Crossbones. Crossbones takes a bit more skill to pull off than DDHK, but he also has a lot of management in his kit. So why is he considered a very, very good champion? It’s worth it. With that management comes immense damage, over 100% defensive ability accuracy, no crits, and a 90% chance to purify any debuff

    The juice is very much worth the squeeze.

    It’s not with DDHK. I firmly believe he has an incredibly good base kit. The utility is there, the mechanics are there. They just don’t flow together very well.

    As much as I would like to see the regen rate tweaked in an upcoming patch, I don’t think we’re going to see any further adjustments to him unless he gets a dedicated tune up spot. Which as far as I’m concerned would actually be for the better, I would rather they spend some time properly pulling him together than just tweaking the regen rate and feeling justified to call it a day.

    I do believe our concerns are being relayed. Miike and the team have 100% seen the flare up in activity on this thread, and while they do get a lot of flak, I genuinely believe they’re good at relaying our concerns. I don’t think this is in their hands at this point

    To be bluntly honest, I don’t think we’ll see another DDHK buff. Look at the Guillotine fiasco. She is far worse than DDHK, was voted by the community, and had significantly more outcry. She’s barely getting touched.

    It really does come back to the ‘bare minimum’ thing I mentioned. So many buffs, especially recently, have felt like roundabout ways to slap some extra numbers on a kit and call it a day. Because ultimately damage is what matters in the early game, and disappointingly, that’s who these buffs are aimed at. Despite the fact that a champ that is good at high levels of play is also good at lower levels, while a champ targeted at newest players is rarely good at the top end. Just refer to Sersi for a clear example of that
    I think Guilly is a different case. There’s nothing wrong with her other than the perceived effectiveness of her buff.

    DDHK is well….broken with the regen.

    How quickly can it be fixed? When we discussed iHulk’s issue with keeping the rage up, they made the change immediately (no patch) to have his rage paused during opponent specials. That changed him from not useful to what he is. Is he the answer to everything? No. But he’s usable and people like him.

    That’s the impact we can have here. And as @Chobbly has stated many times - it can be done because it has been done before.
    See, I actually think it’s exactly the same case as Guillotine. DDHK isn’t broken. They made a conscious decision to set his regen rate at 40%. It’s not like it’s a bug or unintended interaction.

    It’s just not effective.

    Exactly like Guilly’s buff, especially her regeneration I might add (although I would also argue it failed to meet every single criteria a buff should meet but that is another discussion)

    The issue with comparing it to something like Ihulk is that Ihulk was changed on release. I imagine they had a close eye on his tuning before his release, or they wouldn’t have rolled out that change so quickly. Look how long it took them to roll out a second hood buff which had very minimal changes. I believe Ihulk was an outlier

    Bear in mind that DDHK already received a buff post-release with the addition of his miss counter. I think if they were going to make small tweaks to his kit, the regen rate tweak would have happened then when they just have been deep diving his data.

    I fully support pushing for a buff (obviously, or I wouldn’t be here). But I think we need to be realistic with our expectations as well. Unless he gets another spot on the buff schedule, I really don’t see them revisiting a buff that is a year old at this point

    I don’t think there should be an issue with adding DDHK to one of the slots in next year’s cadence. Remember, they released Moleman, Kingpin, Angela and Falcon all on the same month. Look how that turned out for all of them. It was an incredible piece of work from Kabam.
    DDHK’s slot doesn’t need to come at the expense of another champion. We already know what needs to be done, and it’s not much. The kit is there, the mechanics are there, everything just needs to flow together. Regen, AND more uptime on the parts where his kit shines. That’s all.
    I think separating it into 2 parts like I wrote above is the way to go. Satisfy the community now with the regen and then review how it affects him.

    After his regen is restored we can review the damage and scale it so he’s where he needs to be.

    Kabam can’t leave him like this. It’s cruel and unusual punishment to Matt Murdock.

    He’s a lawyer! He knows the laws

    I’ll settle for anything at this point, but unfortunately if the regen gets fixed then the non-suicide users will still feel shortchanged. I think they should get it done right once and for all. That’s just me though.
    Funny thing is I'm a non suicide user. Yes, I won't benefit as much but if we get the Regen Rate sorted out I for one won't feel short-changed. It'll be in the best interests of the kit for everyone.
    You’ll benefit from the regen the way Diablo, iBom, Corvus, Magneto and others do.

    It’s fair and easy to accomplish. Someone just has to listen to us.
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 417 ★★★

    Chobbly said:

    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    I would love to see a DDHK tune up. He’s just some small adjustments away from being an amazing champion, that always active miss counter is a piece of utility that I would rank him for alone

    However, as someone who runs suicides full time, he’s utterly unusable. And while it does make sense for a devout Catholic character to not work well with suicide masteries, it does severely hamper him from a gameplay standpoint.

    Considering we have some ridiculous champions like Ibomb, Diablo and Kingpin, I don’t think setting his regen rate at 100% would be game breaking. If the healing would be too much, I think setting an individual regen rate for the rage debuff is the second best option

    His kit isn’t strong enough to justify being hampered by that regen rate so much. Very few champions have such a significant weakness in their kits. Not even the strongest champs.

    I do also agree with Rookiie. His damage loop, and damage windows are too slim and somewhat complicated. In other words, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Making his playstyle less stressful through increasing durations would go a long way, and upping the values a bit would really bring him into his own

    DDHK is not a bad champion right now. I want to make that clear. In fact, I think he’s quite underrated. But like quite a few of the more recent buffs, it feels like it’s falling short of allowing champ to reach their potential. It’s a frustrating trend to see buffs come through as doing the bare minimum to make the champion somewhat usable, rather than really making champions unique and doing them justice. I understand it’s a small team, and John already has a lot of other roles, but I think I would prefer quite a few less buffs if it meant each champion buff was guaranteed to do the character justice, and make them a useable and useful champ at every level of the game

    Great write up.

    One of the things with DDHK is that he’s a very high skill based champ. That’s one reason I believe the regen rate at 100% is reasonable. As shown above - Corvus can be considered borderline broken when he has Glaive charges up. He heals from double edge and/bleed and shock. And Coldsnap (forgot about that one). 0 damage from those and all willpower healing.
    I don’t think DDHK is as much a high skill champ as he is a high management champ. He has so many aspects to his kit that the player needs to pay attention to in order for his to perform at maximum potential. And even when they do, the payoff is not that large

    Take another high management skill champ: Crossbones. Crossbones takes a bit more skill to pull off than DDHK, but he also has a lot of management in his kit. So why is he considered a very, very good champion? It’s worth it. With that management comes immense damage, over 100% defensive ability accuracy, no crits, and a 90% chance to purify any debuff

    The juice is very much worth the squeeze.

    It’s not with DDHK. I firmly believe he has an incredibly good base kit. The utility is there, the mechanics are there. They just don’t flow together very well.

    As much as I would like to see the regen rate tweaked in an upcoming patch, I don’t think we’re going to see any further adjustments to him unless he gets a dedicated tune up spot. Which as far as I’m concerned would actually be for the better, I would rather they spend some time properly pulling him together than just tweaking the regen rate and feeling justified to call it a day.

    I do believe our concerns are being relayed. Miike and the team have 100% seen the flare up in activity on this thread, and while they do get a lot of flak, I genuinely believe they’re good at relaying our concerns. I don’t think this is in their hands at this point

    To be bluntly honest, I don’t think we’ll see another DDHK buff. Look at the Guillotine fiasco. She is far worse than DDHK, was voted by the community, and had significantly more outcry. She’s barely getting touched.

    It really does come back to the ‘bare minimum’ thing I mentioned. So many buffs, especially recently, have felt like roundabout ways to slap some extra numbers on a kit and call it a day. Because ultimately damage is what matters in the early game, and disappointingly, that’s who these buffs are aimed at. Despite the fact that a champ that is good at high levels of play is also good at lower levels, while a champ targeted at newest players is rarely good at the top end. Just refer to Sersi for a clear example of that
    I think Guilly is a different case. There’s nothing wrong with her other than the perceived effectiveness of her buff.

    DDHK is well….broken with the regen.

    How quickly can it be fixed? When we discussed iHulk’s issue with keeping the rage up, they made the change immediately (no patch) to have his rage paused during opponent specials. That changed him from not useful to what he is. Is he the answer to everything? No. But he’s usable and people like him.

    That’s the impact we can have here. And as @Chobbly has stated many times - it can be done because it has been done before.
    See, I actually think it’s exactly the same case as Guillotine. DDHK isn’t broken. They made a conscious decision to set his regen rate at 40%. It’s not like it’s a bug or unintended interaction.

    It’s just not effective.

    Exactly like Guilly’s buff, especially her regeneration I might add (although I would also argue it failed to meet every single criteria a buff should meet but that is another discussion)

    The issue with comparing it to something like Ihulk is that Ihulk was changed on release. I imagine they had a close eye on his tuning before his release, or they wouldn’t have rolled out that change so quickly. Look how long it took them to roll out a second hood buff which had very minimal changes. I believe Ihulk was an outlier

    Bear in mind that DDHK already received a buff post-release with the addition of his miss counter. I think if they were going to make small tweaks to his kit, the regen rate tweak would have happened then when they just have been deep diving his data.

    I fully support pushing for a buff (obviously, or I wouldn’t be here). But I think we need to be realistic with our expectations as well. Unless he gets another spot on the buff schedule, I really don’t see them revisiting a buff that is a year old at this point

    I don’t think there should be an issue with adding DDHK to one of the slots in next year’s cadence. Remember, they released Moleman, Kingpin, Angela and Falcon all on the same month. Look how that turned out for all of them. It was an incredible piece of work from Kabam.
    DDHK’s slot doesn’t need to come at the expense of another champion. We already know what needs to be done, and it’s not much. The kit is there, the mechanics are there, everything just needs to flow together. Regen, AND more uptime on the parts where his kit shines. That’s all.
    I think separating it into 2 parts like I wrote above is the way to go. Satisfy the community now with the regen and then review how it affects him.

    After his regen is restored we can review the damage and scale it so he’s where he needs to be.

    Kabam can’t leave him like this. It’s cruel and unusual punishment to Matt Murdock.

    He’s a lawyer! He knows the laws

    I’ll settle for anything at this point, but unfortunately if the regen gets fixed then the non-suicide users will still feel shortchanged. I think they should get it done right once and for all. That’s just me though.
    Funny thing is I'm a non suicide user. Yes, I won't benefit as much but if we get the Regen Rate sorted out I for one won't feel short-changed. It'll be in the best interests of the kit for everyone.
    You’ll benefit from the regen the way Diablo, iBom, Corvus, Magneto and others do.

    It’s fair and easy to accomplish. Someone just has to listen to us.
    I'll unlock them at some point - just don't like the idea of it wrecking a good chunk of my roster. Plus most of my favourite champs aren't suicide friendly.

    Let's hope we hear something today, even if it's just an acknowledgement and maybe our question being passed on.
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 2,501 ★★★★★
    So I originally thought DDHK needed a slight tune up. I was actually wrong that he needs a tune up. I always manage to get great bleeds out of him and great damage.

    The core issue that I am seeing here is people just don't understand DDHK as a champion and new to the idea of using the combo meter as currency. While this is a great idea and effective once you get down, it's complicated and really is not worth it for most people. DDHK IMO is top 5 hardest to learn in the game , but once you learn him he can shine. I have a video of him doing red hulk about as quick as hit monkey.

    The regen rate IMO is not a deal breaker , as most of this champs kit is aimed at mid tier players. What is a deal breaker for me is the kit doesn't really give you purpose anywhere in the rotation and that is confusing for players.

    His instant bleeds should be like karnaks and not on a special 3.

    His kit doesn't reward any behavior except combo counting and you get the damage output you should be at.

    He requires a high signature ability , which is really good, but not going to get any love.

    He has no real advantage against science champs except a shaky debuff shrug that doesn't work.


    To conclude , they gave him only damage utility which you have to earn through a complicated play style , which brings him to the level of other champs that can do the same without the extra work.

    I still really enjoy DDHK , but I think Karnak is a better version of him.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    Whoever is disagreeing with arguably one of the simplest and clearest discussions about a champ tune up, please say what you feel, otherwise the disagrees are just trolling.
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 2,501 ★★★★★

    Whoever is disagreeing with arguably one of the simplest and clearest discussions about a champ tune up, please say what you feel, otherwise the disagrees are just trolling.

    Probably just think he is not good so that = disagrees.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    Texas_11 said:

    Whoever is disagreeing with arguably one of the simplest and clearest discussions about a champ tune up, please say what you feel, otherwise the disagrees are just trolling.

    Probably just think he is not good so that = disagrees.
    We think the same to a degree, hence the point of the entire thread.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,887 ★★★★★
    Call me a lunatic but I think Kabam are listening.
    Otherwise, they would have shut us down or dumped this in Suggestions and Requests to die.
    Call me a lunatic, but I think Kabam haven’t responded because they don’t want us to raise our expectations, because they’re trying.
    Trying to get this across to the team, trying to get the data, trying to fetch a slot for him in the cadence.
    I may be crazy, but I believe in you Kabam.
    And I believe so hard that this man will get the buff he deserves.
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 417 ★★★
    edited December 2021
    Rookiie said:

    Call me a lunatic but I think Kabam are listening.
    Otherwise, they would have shut us down or dumped this in Suggestions and Requests to die.
    Call me a lunatic, but I think Kabam haven’t responded because they don’t want us to raise our expectations, because they’re trying.
    Trying to get this across to the team, trying to get the data, trying to fetch a slot for him in the cadence.
    I may be crazy, but I believe in you Kabam.
    And I believe so hard that this man will get the buff he deserves.

    I really hope you're right, @Rookiie . It would be seen as a really positive thing to do not just for the champ but for the many Summoners that have him in their rosters, for what would be only a small amount of effort.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,887 ★★★★★
    Chobbly said:

    Rookiie said:

    Call me a lunatic but I think Kabam are listening.
    Otherwise, they would have shut us down or dumped this in Suggestions and Requests to die.
    Call me a lunatic, but I think Kabam haven’t responded because they don’t want us to raise our expectations, because they’re trying.
    Trying to get this across to the team, trying to get the data, trying to fetch a slot for him in the cadence.
    I may be crazy, but I believe in you Kabam.
    And I believe so hard that this man will get the buff he deserves.

    I really hope you're right, @Rookiie . It would be seen as a really positive thing to do not just for the champ but for the many Summoners that have him in their rosters, for what would be only a small amount of effort.

    And for the buff program. Daredevil was the Flagship of Failure, and if they commit to changing that then it will send a strong message to the player base that Kabam are tuning in.
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