**Mastery Loadouts**
Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.
Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.
Comments
May we ask for screenshots of your completed content and roster before we invest anymore time debating this with you?
Add glory in increments of 100 for each milestone up to 600mil
Reduce t5b cost for TB to 700, and increase the buy to 9000 frags
Make the 5% t5cc purchase limit 2 and lower the cost to 900.
Right now I get 4700 glory. I spend 4650 on 5% t5cc, 45% t5b, and half a t2a.
My proposed changes would get me 4900-5000 glory, which would turn into 10% t5cc (1850 glory at 900+950) and 80% t5b (3100 total, 700+750+800+850 glory).
What I find unacceptable is for a 2018 resource to be my bottle neck as an end game player in 2022. My bottle neck should be r4 6 star material at this point... not a resource that was introduced in 2018. I just can't get behind the idea of rehashing/recycling a past bottle neck from 4 years ago. It's lazy, cheap game design tbh.
We've been there and done that. All of us who are experiencing this issue already paid our dues regarding t5b. We all chased it once already. Years ago... and already went through the struggle to obtain it once. That's why we're unhappy about it. Do I think there needs to be a limit on how many and what quality of rank ups you can do? Of course. But the way to limit it should be the highest materials and not one that is 4 years old.
As for your question regarding the solution. I think the solution is to offer a reasonable way to get the correct ratio. As for the amounts, they can decide what is balanced. The main focus of my video was the ratio. Which is somewhere between 3-4 to 1. Anyone who is focused on 6 star progression, should be earning roughly 2/1. As that is what 6 stars require. Just change the ratio and I'll leave the amount up to them.
It takes 15 (of the same class, obviously) t5c to take a 6 from 1-3. That can add up real quick given the random nature of the crystals.
Surely we at least agree about the t5b value in the TB Glory store though yeah? It's tragically outdated imo.
But there's an especially nasty third hidden assumption, and that is that the imbalance is even a bad thing or not deliberate. Suppose theT2A and T5B ratio isn't even a thing, which is to say the devs don't even care what the ratio is. How could that possibly be? Simple: suppose the devs have taken a look at all the different kinds of players in the game, even those at high tiers. Some of them rank this way, some rank that way. Given the *way* they rank, the game is willing to give them a certain amount of resources to enable them to do those kinds of rank ups. They may be giving the players enough T2A for some kinds of players and enough T5B for other kinds of players, but the ratio is messed up for players in general.
Suppose just for simplicity of discussion there are two kinds of players: one kind focuses exclusively on 6* rank ups. The other kind does a mix of 6* and 5* rank ups. And let's say that for balance purposes both players do the same content and get the same rewards from that content. The devs might decide that it would be reasonable if Type A players get to do 5 of those rank ups in the same amount of time Type B players get to do 7 of those rank ups (since some of those will be 6s and some 5s). They calculate the amount of catalysts it would take to meet those limits for both players. Remember: both players do the same things so they will get the same rewards. Because they are doing different rank ups they will require different amounts of T2A and T5B. Type A might need more T5B, Type B might need more T2A. To split the difference, the devs design the rewards in this basket of content to give all the T5B that Type A needs *and* all the T2A that type B needs within that content to reach those balance goals.
So now Type A will get more T2A than they can use, and Type B will get more T5B than they can use. But Type A players might perceive this as being short of T5B and Type B players might perceive this as being short of T2A, because in both cases they don't have enough of that resource to use up the other. But they aren't getting too little of those resources, they are getting extra of the other to accommodate the fact that the game is attempting to balance for both.
This dramatically oversimplifies how game economies are designed, but if something like this is actually what is happening, then the "solution" is not to give both groups even more resources, because that breaks the original limits of those resources. To solve the "problem" of players getting extra of something, we have to give them even more extra of something else. If we demand this sort of change to the game, we're signalling to the economy designers that they should always make resources extra scarce, not extra plentiful, so that when players demand changes to "fix" a resource scarcity the extra stuff they are given pushes the game right to the point originally intended.
TL;DR: you might not have a shortage of T5B. You might have an excess of T2A that someone else is using and you're not, and the game is fine giving you more than you can use to accommodate someone else. And that might not be a problem to "fix" because giving you the ability to make efficient use of those extra resources could break the original intent of allowing those resources to exist in the first place.
Also, we already did this dance the other way around: saying there was not enough T2A. Time completely reversed that complaint. So I'm reluctant to jump back on board. Normally I'm of the opinion that resource constraints are a combination of usage issues and/or temporary situations. The *one* time I went the other way I was proven wrong.
I'll do my best to respond and/or clarify my position.
Regarding what you refered to as the first assumption: I did my best in the video to illustrate that I was exclusively viewing the current ratios awarded to end game (100% all content), map 8 players. As far as I know, every source I used (directly from live menus in game), and everything I analyzed in the video was for playing map 8. Which, as you know, is the highest available tier for AQ. Very recently added, mind you (which should mean it is accurately tuned for today's game/not yet outdated).
To my thinking, viewing Map 8 rewards was the most accurate way to view the current ratio in recurring rewards targeted for the most advanced players in the game. As it's the highest, most recently added level. Do you agree that there's not really any other source of recurring/consistent rewards (targeted for the top players in the game) I could use that would be more accurate? Likewise, and for reasons you have actually stated, I chose to leave other recurring rewards out of the analysis. Like Monthly EQ and SQ. SQ is obviously not static, so that was an immediate reason for me to not include them. As for EQ, the rewards are static. So, I could have included them, but chose not to specifically for the reason you mentioned.
There is a vast spectrum of players participating in Cav/UC EQ. So, we're 100% in agreement about that particular source of rewards. There's no accurate way to say who it is tuned for. As the rewards are shared by many different players at markedly different states of progression. Which is why I left it out. And, which is why I actually agree with you about that particular set of rewards. That one can't accurately say "the rewards should be tuned for me". I feel the issue instead, is that we are simply way overdue for another tier of EQ (and SQ), but that's another debate, for another time. 🙂
Assumption 2: I may be guilty as charged here. However, we may just need to agree to disagree on this portion. In my own personal experience, discussion with alliance mates/Discord server friends, this forum and YouTube content consumption, I really have found it to be extremely rare for someone at the "end game" level/doing map 8 to be using any meaningful resources on 5 star at this point.
Can I/we use them? Sure, a large portion of content released is still playable for 5 star characters. Absolutely. There's just no reason for me/us to do so anymore. We now have enough r3 options to cover whatever is needed in game. I have 31 (hand picked to cover as many scenarios as possible and span evenly across classes, tags, etc.) And just to be clear, I have 42 maxed 5 stars and many at r3 or 4 as well. And they all served me quite well over the last few years. But, they are none the less in retirement now.
Btw, I would never rank them down even if I could. They represent great memories for me in the game and I'm proud of my 5 star collection. But, when it comes to AW for example, I can't even use them for defense if I wanted to. We are at a place in the game where most players are placing a minimum of r3 (and some r4) defense. Solo content? As I said, we *could* use them, but we don't need to. As we can use champs with higher attack and health stats. I mean, why wouldn't we? Also, while we have sometimes duplicated our favorite characters in both 5 and 6 star rank ups, many of us have intentionally ranked different characters as 6 stars than we have as 5. Especially as the meta is always shifting.
The only viable argument I see for "end game" players ranking up 5 stars is arena or for funsies in most situations. Unfortunately, because 5 and 6 star champs do share some resources (namely t4b and c), I/we just can't justify using those resources on them anymore. As it may actually hinder our 6 star progression.
Assumption 3: What I'm asking for is simply to have the ability to work hard for rewards tuned for my progression. I absolutely don't want anything handed to me. Quite the opposite. I'm actually pretty active on this forum coming out against this. 🙂 I'm a firm believer that this is and always should be a difficult fighting game at the highest levels. But not just that, it's also a game in which puzzle solving, short term and long term (measured in years) strategy is just as much a part of it as the actual combat (which is amazing and fun). Working hard for the rewards *is* what gives them any value at all in my opinion.
I don't mind bottle necks or limitations placed on me regarding the advancement of my account. On the contrary, I think it's essential for the game to succeed. I'm simply saying I would much prefer if these points of struggle along the road to progress were encountered, overcome by dedication and hard work and then then fell behind us. So we can focus on the next obstacle to overcome, indefinitely. I've already overcome the obstacles of t4cc (to rank my 4 stars), t2a, t5b, t5c, respectively. I don't wish to have them rehashed or recycled. I wish to move forward and struggle for the next resources.
I think part of what I actually missed (totally my fault) in my video was the mention of how I/we also believe the "shortage" of t5b for end game players is actually devaluing t5c. Kabam wants us to feel a desire to collect it, but has unfortunately sabotaged this with the shortage of t5b. I/we have lost the desire to collect t5c to a certain degree. We just can't really use it that much. I personally have enough to r3 about 7-8 champs at this moment. And cannot, because of t5b. I/we find it demotivating to say the least. So, all is to say it's not *just about the ratio of t2a to t5b. It's also the ratio to t5c. Which, as stated, seems backwards to us. A 2018/19 resource (we already struggled once to obtain - years ago at this point) is now stopping us from using a 2020/21 resource. Make sense at all?
As for the t2a shortage prior to this: I absolutely remember this. And, what I'm actually saying is that this rehashing/recycling of past resources is now taking form in a different catalyst. I didn't appreciate it then and don't appreciate it now. We want to move forward, not backwards. In regard to which resources we are struggling to obtain. It's clear Kabam wishes to engage in this type of rehashing old bottle necks of the past. That's their right. And it's our right to express discontent. And to decide whether we wish to participate in it or to move on.
And nope; I will never agree to hyperbole but it will be updated in time; and players will decry it as falling short; f2p model and what not. You’ll drive yourself nuts if you continue thinking Kabam is doing anything but carefully metering out end stage resources in a deliberate fashion.
We *could* make all rarities just require completely different resources, but that would pressure players to abandon lower rarities before they were really ready to do so. Players who couldn't just do everything would have to choose whether to invest all their time into the higher tier - and almost certainly more expensive - roster growth or stick with the more efficient, but less powerful resources that are only good for the lower rarity and have zero benefit towards higher ones. There would be far less opportunities for players who wanted to balance effort between them.
Plus, that's just not how resource management games tend to work. Progressional games are about overcoming obstacles. Resource management games are about balancing constraints. This game includes elements of both. The progressional side is about moving on. The resource management side is all about continuous maintenance. Like it or not, that's just how those things work. Back in the day there were people who used to say they loved MMOs, but wondered why the games couldn't give players the tools to customize their experience. Like if everyone else wanted to do that but I don't, why can't I just be allowed to play the game however I want. And I believe the answer ultimately was: because that's a single player experience. No one who wants to make a game where everyone can do whatever they want makes multiplayer games, they make single player games. I believe the same thing holds true when it comes to resource management. No one who wants people to be able to beat a resource constraint once and then never have to deal with it again makes resource management games. They make games with resource gates but not resource management.
My opinions are also derived from the sentiment of this thread that the solution to this manufactured “problem” is being rewarded more of the uncommon resource leading to faster rank ups/progression. People in this thread literally want Kabam to speed up progression because they can’t stomach expiring resources.
A mismatch in availability of resources is 100% by design and happens throughout all progression levels.
I’m not going to outline my progression. But I do have 20 T2A and 5 T5B in my overflow. And in no way does that make me feel entitled to more T5B.
I think where we're missing each other is we're not simply talking about mismatched amounts of resources. We're talking about "old resources" being intentionally recycled into sought after resources, sometimes actual years later. We're not into that type of design and are expressing this. However, I do appreciate the information about having t5b in overflow. That does let us know that you are in a completely different situation. You are likely in need of characters. Rather than having a lot of characters and having a lot of actual high tier rank up materials (t5cc is a total non-issue) only to be limited by a lower tier resource that was introduced 4 years ago. Which is the situation we're not into.
Me personally, I'm currently at 6 t5c and 1 t5b. Which means I would need 24x my current amount of t5b to use my t5c. Not twice as many or 3,4 or 10 times as many, but 24 times as many.
Frankly if Kabam introduce 7* I think its probably mark the end of my journey in this game. I'm interested in champ collection and use them to tackle some tough contents, but I'm not very interested in gathering those rank-up resources since the launch of 6*. It's repetitive process for me and I think I won't return to high tier alliance because of rank-up materials.
I made the suggestion sometime ago in another thread that I think there should be a discount on resources required in order to R5 say a 4*.
Obviously for thronebreakers like myself, this isn't going to change anything for really 99% of the game for me, but when it comes down to the fact that it takes 8 t4b to r3-r5 a 4* champion, OR R2 a 6* champion for less t4b, the logical choice is there.
However, I'm a fairly heavy arena grinder, and there's specific champs I like to play around with regardless of rarity.
So I think that a "discount" on rank ups would be justifiable, even if it's only a minimal amount.
Either that, or remove the t4b requirements on 6* R2s. It's silly. You dont need t3b to R2 a 5* champ. (Resource for R4ing a 3*)
Just like you don't need t1b to R2 a 4* champ. (Same resource to max out a 2*)
It's silly that we're using such outdated resources for ranking up.
Then at that point, if less t4b is needed, summoners could sell for a fraction of t5b to help with the ratio of earned resources.
There is just no way to acquire more from any live regular content (which I have done all of).
Put into perspective that I have not brought a single shard of t2a with glory in 5/6 months. I am sat in a pile of aq crystals and have 9 full t5cc.
Yet if I were to every pull a herc from this feature then I need 7!!!! T5b to rank him up. In time acquiring those I would probably get about 45 more t2a on top of the 50 odd I already have..
I don’t see how you can spend them - and yes I even ranked a 5* to r4 this week as had 4 expiring 😞
At least we get a chunk of them from gifting rewards later.. but even 1-10% in both ally/solo gives me only 7.. enough for a single r3. We are moving to a t4 world, it is no longer 2020.
The glory store is busted. Newly UC players shouldn’t be getting their marquee resource at the price as TB players.
Each rankup has less marginal utility than the one before it - the difference between having 0 and 5 champs at 5/65 is huge. The difference between 30 and 35 is near zero.
This is made even worse because of nerfed growth at r3 and beyond. The jump in attack/HP is very small but very expensive. Someone trying to run act 7 100% with a deep roster arguably has an easier time taking four extra 6-stars to r2 than taking 3 existing r2 champs to r3. That’s bad design.
The failure to update the glory store was basically unprecedented. It was already bad on the day it started, but allowing it to remain is worse. My theory: Kabam realized that the best way to sustain the game was to flood uncollected players with t5b. It lets them hit cavalier faster. They can boost prestige quickly. They can compete in alliance modes with players who built rosters in scarcer times. This infusion creates a larger pool of relative peers to keep alliances full and functional.
And now I’m supposedly not capable of understanding the issue yet I’d get more rank up materials all the same with the proposals listed here and speeding up my progression.
All because of FOMO due to expiring materials.
The reason that is not a great option and is different from other games is that we are encouraged NOT to waste any resources. Over my 6 years playing, i havent wasted a single resource in MCOC.And yes, I play other games as well. MCOC has a system to make use of all the resources you get. But recently, the t2a situation is out of sync with other materials, causing this issue. For endgamers, even the t1a influx can be managed by r2ing 5* to eat up 5 t1a easily, but t2a requires t4cc which is very instrumental in 6* progression, all the way to r3.
- Being in a constant state of frustration because "if only I had a couple of t5b more...!" Makes you want to keep grinding on the game just to precisely get those missing resources. More time you feel you NEED to play the game to accomplish something on it is a win for Kabam.
- 16 t2a in overflow, no t5b but ... surprisingly Kabam put up an "offer" of 100 bucks for 4 t4b. And you go " Yes' I MUST buy this so that way I can have my next R3 and not let 8 t2a go to waste!!!! Already 8 will go to waste (or into R4 5* , more on that later)...so you buy the offer and that's another win for Kabam.
- Because you dont want 8 t2a to go to waste then you go ahead and r4 two 5* that you would otherwise never even consider ranking. This is also a major win for Kabam in two fronts:
a) It forces you to spend gold and iso8 that you would otherwise prefer using on a 6*, but alas, since you can't then you use it on a 5* , stifling your 6* progression cuz whenever you do get the cats to use on a 6*, them chances are that you might also need to grind arena for gold. Making you spend time on the game grinding arena= Win for Kabam. Making it not that easy for anyone just to R2 and R3 any champ as they please = also a win for Kabam because you'll feel you either have to PLAY the game (or better still, SPEND REAL MONEY on it) to progress the champs you want.
b) Maybe you r4 5* Night Trasher just to use up expiring T2a, not because you particularly want to. But then theres some CAV EQ ( or quest node or whatever) on which it so happens that for whatever reason NT is the single best counter in the game. So you go ahead and bring NT "just for kicks" on the Cav EQ or whatever and wow! You realize what an underrated champion he is. At the same time you realize by happenstance how his CGR and Mr. Fantastic Synergy makes CGR (which also happens to be your best/favorite/only r3 ) even more OP than he already is. So whatcha gonna go do next? Well of course, hunt for the 6* NT!! Because you are at a point in a game where you realize that R5'ing 5* is no longer a smart long term investment. And you realized all this because you happened to have ranked r4 that NT just to avoid 4 t2a going down the drain. Making you aspire/ hunt for a 6* champ that would otherwise never have crossed your radar? Yet ANOTHER win for Kabam.
So you see, your t5b shortage IS ON PURPOSE, it’s in the game by design. And I am not even writing this post to trash/blame Kabam for it. I actually admire SOME of the really crafty schemes they come up with in order to keep us hooked with the game...SOME of them are quite smart. I have to emphasize the SOME of them because Kabam does also have a track record of coming up with schemes that backfire disastrously and make us rather NOT want to play the game. Add that to the persistent bugs (specially parry bug) and I will even go ahead and say that perhaps currently there are more things in the game that makes us NOT want to play the game, unbalanced with the ones that keep us hooked.... which is dangerous for any game. However, imho, t5b shortage is not one of the things that I have a gripe with, I actually think it is a pretty smart way to stifle progression, and believe it it or not, doing so is good for the game in the long term. Making 6* progression too easy would be unhealthy for the game because peeps would have less reasons to play/grind/chase things in the game, and that's foreboding for a game coffin.
TL;DR
The t5b shortage is in by design to make you actually feel there are things to chase/aspire for in the game. In this sense, MCoC is not unlike a casino. And no, I do not mean it in the Prof. Hoff sense ... that guy keeps complaining that crystals are casino-like and I go " Yes, it says so in the description of the item, so your point is????? (Smh)". When I say that MCoC is like a casino is because by design, in addition to whatever addictive potential a roulette or slot machine may have, Casinos are constructed to make such potential to easily arise. For example, have you ever wondered why casinos don't have clocks, actual windows, and lighting is carefully controlled to make it look that it's always the same time of the day even if you have been there 24h? It's because messing with the usual ways for perceiving the passing of time is a way to keep you inside in the casino. Same goes with giving you free drinks, etc... they have a LONG list of crafty schemes to keep you there. Whatever they can do to keep you IN the casino is a win for them because the more you are in it, the bigger the chance for the addictive potential of a slot machine, etc. to exert its effect on you . So whatever crafty way Kabam can come up to keep you playing the game is a win for them ... and if you are enjoying the game, then its good for you too because it helps the longevity of the game.
So, in conclusion, the problem is not the t5b shortage or any of the many other crafty and successful mechanisms MCOC has to keep you hooked. I personally believe that it's about time people stop complaining and understand that if they think they are "playing" a game by Kabam , then they are 100% wrong. It's the other way around, you are not playing a game , instead .... KABAM IS PLAYING YOU. It really is that simple.
So the key point is to sit down and think: " Am I having more fun than frustration when Kabam plays me with their game?" If the answer is "yes" then keep playing and/or spending on it and having fun. If the answer is "no" then that's a sure sign that the time has come to delete the game from your phone and search for greener pastures.
Particularly, the last 6 months of the game have made me slowly, but surely, tilt my answer to the above question closer to a "no". It's not a complete "no" yet but who knows in 3-6 months how I'll feel. I've ben playing since the game's release, and in two separate occasions I've quit once for 9 months and 13 months the latest. The start of the pandemic is what made me play again after my last quit. So my advice is that if you are feeling more frustrated than fun by the way Kabam has been playing you (while making you think that you are playing their game) then take a time off. It'll all be alright regardless whether you come back later or not.