Toad and non-contact attacks?

dot_dittodot_ditto Member Posts: 1,442 ★★★★
in Bugs and Known Issues
Hi, not sure if this is working as intended or not, or if I'm missing something.

Toad has the following:



So, in short .. (when he's near a wall), striking him risks being afflicted by paralytic poison.
So far, I'm reading this similar to other abilities, like Abomination, etc .. % chance to be afflicted with something on contact.


However, non-contact attacks don't seem to be avoiding it? That is, still getting afflicted with the poison when using non-contact attacks:

Ebony Maw: Mediums


Havoc: Mediums and Heavies


etc.

should the paralytic poison be applied on a non-contact attack? or not? or am I reading it wrong?

(and yes, I'm cheesing the punk with Ebony ... sue me :P lol )

Comments

  • Crine60Crine60 Member Posts: 1,444 ★★★★
    The examples you provided have different terms in them. Toad says when struck and Abomination says contact with. Obviously non-contact is not contact but struck could just mean any hit even non-contact. I don't know this to 100% be the case but it isn't an issue of the same description having different effects/results.
  • dot_dittodot_ditto Member Posts: 1,442 ★★★★
    Crine60 said:

    The examples you provided have different terms in them. Toad says when struck and Abomination says contact with. Obviously non-contact is not contact but struck could just mean any hit even non-contact. I don't know this to 100% be the case but it isn't an issue of the same description having different effects/results.

    please reread the last entry in toads description .. here

    it clearly says "contact" in reference to getting a paralytic posion.
    the first section using the "struck" terminology only applies to regen . and "begins secreting" ... which is not the act of receiving the paralytic posion.

    you're reading the wrong section and ignoring the relevant section.
  • ChampioncriticChampioncritic Member Posts: 3,347 ★★★★
    you are right OP, based on the screenshots you provided i agree that non-contact hits should avoid getting paralytic poison
  • Crine60Crine60 Member Posts: 1,444 ★★★★
    dot_ditto said:

    Crine60 said:

    The examples you provided have different terms in them. Toad says when struck and Abomination says contact with. Obviously non-contact is not contact but struck could just mean any hit even non-contact. I don't know this to 100% be the case but it isn't an issue of the same description having different effects/results.

    please reread the last entry in toads description .. here

    it clearly says "contact" in reference to getting a paralytic posion.
    the first section using the "struck" terminology only applies to regen . and "begins secreting" ... which is not the act of receiving the paralytic posion.

    you're reading the wrong section and ignoring the relevant section.
    You are correct, I saw the first part and stopped. Sorry about that. It does appear to be an inconsistency which if not a bug is very problematic.
  • dot_dittodot_ditto Member Posts: 1,442 ★★★★
    Ok thanks for confirming I'm not going totally crazy :) Now for the longshot of hoping a kabam mod sees this and acknowledges it ..


  • dot_dittodot_ditto Member Posts: 1,442 ★★★★
    FYI .. I submitted a ticket: #212288 to hopefully get some attention to this ... hopefully it gets fixed before end of event quest, so we don't have to struggle with a bugged Toad .. *sigh*
  • Raichu626Raichu626 Member Posts: 934 ★★★★
    Toad has another ability that inflicts poison that does not rely on contact and can trigger at any time
  • dot_dittodot_ditto Member Posts: 1,442 ★★★★
    Raichu626 said:

    Toad has another ability that inflicts poison that does not rely on contact and can trigger at any time

    Ahh, that could be issue . .what's the ability ? can you reference it? screen shot? etc?
  • Crine60Crine60 Member Posts: 1,444 ★★★★
    dot_ditto said:

    Raichu626 said:

    Toad has another ability that inflicts poison that does not rely on contact and can trigger at any time

    Ahh, that could be issue . .what's the ability ? can you reference it? screen shot? etc?
    Maybe this is what they were referring to?


  • phillgreenphillgreen Member Posts: 4,182 ★★★★★
    The language seems to be deliberate in that it specifically mentions being struck as opposed to using a term like "contact"
  • Raichu626Raichu626 Member Posts: 934 ★★★★
    Crine60 said:

    dot_ditto said:

    Raichu626 said:

    Toad has another ability that inflicts poison that does not rely on contact and can trigger at any time

    Ahh, that could be issue . .what's the ability ? can you reference it? screen shot? etc?
    Maybe this is what they were referring to?
    Yep, that's the one
  • dot_dittodot_ditto Member Posts: 1,442 ★★★★
    phillgreen said:

    The language seems to be deliberate in that it specifically mentions being struck as opposed to using a term like "contact"

    yeah .. seems odd they did that ... when every other mechanic in the game has contact/non-contact working differently .. O.o

    Is there any other abilities out there (somewhat similar to this) that trigger on non-contact attacks?
  • dot_dittodot_ditto Member Posts: 1,442 ★★★★
    So any chance Kabam could clarify this ? is this wording/functionality as intended ? and is this now the first ability to break the trend of ignoring non-contact when it probably shouldn't ?
  • MagrailothosMagrailothos Member Posts: 6,031 ★★★★★
    I think it's intended; if a bit stupid. At least the 7% chance is Intended to be active whenever he's hit in any way.

    I've thrown a missile at him from the far side of the screen and been poisoned as a result. Regardless of how his abilities are described, it does seem a little nonsensical. This really is the kind of 'contact'/'hit'/'struck' ability that shouldn't apply to projectiles.

    And yes there are other examples that are similarly nonsensical @dot_ditto - Blade can inflict Bleed by a Well-Timed block on a projectile, and Colossus can do direct damage the same way.

  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Member Posts: 5,260 ★★★★★
    edited January 2022
    Magrailothos said:

    I think it's intended; if a bit stupid. At least the 7% chance is Intended to be active whenever he's hit in any way.

    I've thrown a missile at him from the far side of the screen and been poisoned as a result. Regardless of how his abilities are described, it does seem a little nonsensical. This really is the kind of 'contact'/'hit'/'struck' ability that shouldn't apply to projectiles.

    And yes there are other examples that are similarly nonsensical dot_ditto - Blade can inflict Bleed by a Well-Timed block on a projectile, and Colossus can do direct damage the same way.

    So many abilties in the game don't "make sense". There is not "shouldn't apply" if it does, it does
  • dot_dittodot_ditto Member Posts: 1,442 ★★★★
    Magrailothos said:

    I think it's intended; if a bit stupid. At least the 7% chance is Intended to be active whenever he's hit in any way.

    I've thrown a missile at him from the far side of the screen and been poisoned as a result. Regardless of how his abilities are described, it does seem a little nonsensical. This really is the kind of 'contact'/'hit'/'struck' ability that shouldn't apply to projectiles.

    And yes there are other examples that are similarly nonsensical @dot_ditto - Blade can inflict Bleed by a Well-Timed block on a projectile, and Colossus can do direct damage the same way.

    Thanks .. I couldn't think of any good examples, and nobody posted any in response to my earlier question .. so wasn't sure ...
    I'm fine with some odd interactions, just was hoping for some consistency :pensive:

    guess that was asking too much .. lol
  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Member Posts: 5,260 ★★★★★
    dot_ditto said:

    Magrailothos said:

    I think it's intended; if a bit stupid. At least the 7% chance is Intended to be active whenever he's hit in any way.

    I've thrown a missile at him from the far side of the screen and been poisoned as a result. Regardless of how his abilities are described, it does seem a little nonsensical. This really is the kind of 'contact'/'hit'/'struck' ability that shouldn't apply to projectiles.

    And yes there are other examples that are similarly nonsensical @dot_ditto - Blade can inflict Bleed by a Well-Timed block on a projectile, and Colossus can do direct damage the same way.

    Thanks .. I couldn't think of any good examples, and nobody posted any in response to my earlier question .. so wasn't sure ...
    I'm fine with some odd interactions, just was hoping for some consistency :pensive:

    guess that was asking too much .. lol
    What inconsistency? Look at biohazards description. It says struck and will trigger on non contact hits too
  • dot_dittodot_ditto Member Posts: 1,442 ★★★★
    AverageDesi said:

    dot_ditto said:

    Magrailothos said:

    I think it's intended; if a bit stupid. At least the 7% chance is Intended to be active whenever he's hit in any way.

    I've thrown a missile at him from the far side of the screen and been poisoned as a result. Regardless of how his abilities are described, it does seem a little nonsensical. This really is the kind of 'contact'/'hit'/'struck' ability that shouldn't apply to projectiles.

    And yes there are other examples that are similarly nonsensical @dot_ditto - Blade can inflict Bleed by a Well-Timed block on a projectile, and Colossus can do direct damage the same way.

    Thanks .. I couldn't think of any good examples, and nobody posted any in response to my earlier question .. so wasn't sure ...
    I'm fine with some odd interactions, just was hoping for some consistency :pensive:

    guess that was asking too much .. lol
    What inconsistency? Look at biohazards description. It says struck and will trigger on non contact hits too
    Inconsistency is having 2 abilities on the same champ behaving in very different ways.

    His 2 abilities should really be the same ... it doesn't matter which way it goes ... don't really care ... but having 1 ability trigger on non-contact, and another ability on the same champion ignoring non-contact ... just adds confusion to understanding things.

    I don't really mind/care about the fact the game has different abilities like that ... that's .. "ok" .. (not great .. could argue the inconsistency in the game there ... but that's a bigger issue :P )

    Really, though, having multiple abilities on the same champ, with different/conflicting wording just adds unnecessary inconsistency and confusion to the mix.

    It was similar back with Daredevil ... every time a new champ was released with invisibility/falter/phasing/something .. it was inconsistent how he dealt with it ... very confusing. They finally fixed that by making it consistent. I don't have a problem with how they did it .. actually they choose a very smart/simple way of handling that one.

    But now we're back to square 1 ... where they aren't being consistent.
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