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Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

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Comments

  • TyphoonTyphoon Posts: 1,748 ★★★★★
    Where did Jax’s comment go?
  • AustinU823AustinU823 Posts: 84 ★★
    Kabam Jax said:

    Hey Summoners,

    Thank you for your feedback, we are reading every comment. Please keep your messages constructive; most of you have so far, thank you for that.

    Based on the feedback in this thread, we have started internal discussions around adjusting revive/potion inventory caps. This is not a guaranteed change, but is what is most prominently being discussed.

    These conversations will continue to take place behind the scenes and could grow to include other potential adjustments as well.

    We will use this thread to provide updates if/when we have news to share.

    Lifting the cap on revives/potions entirely seems like the only fair way to address the difficulty of some of the more challenging content like EOP. It was designed around the state of the game at the time which factored in revive farming. The average player is not going to be able to handle that with less than 50 revives going into it. I feel like this is all just a roundabout way of nerfing Hercules without nerfing him. I think the reception would be better if you guys just ripped the bandaid and nerfed him already so content doesn’t need to be overtuned and resource farming doesn’t need to be completely shut down
  • JefechutaJefechuta Posts: 1,204 ★★★★
    BigPoppaCBONE said:

    Jefechuta said:

    I dont know if anyone already stated this but:


    I fairly think this is one of the best decissions they could make, content is done too easily by people that are not even skilled enough to do it just spamming revives, so this encourages people to try to learn how to really play the game properly, not only this but makes the challenging things challenging, when people is able to do this content the first day it goes out just spamming 60 revives that means that something must be done, If anyone thinks that 2 revives PER DAY is not enough, that only shows how bad people became. Getting revives became way easier than before, so I think is fair to nerf the amount we can get by farming them.

    The main problem I see here, is that they done this in the worst moment possible, since people need more revives because everything in the game is bugged, so they should have waited a little bit more to make this changes until they fixed at least half of the bugs they have currently in game.

    And to be fair with Kabam, this is not a charity, this is a company, we already get almost everything free, I dont think its that bad to have to play more Arenas to get more revives for the hard content, or spending to get them.

    I think its just a bad timing, but a really good decission, I expect a lot of disagrees but sorry fams, I dont think this is about opinions, since I repeat, you dont need more than 2 revives a day, or you shouldnt need them, If you need them then that means you are not playing properly, so you should try to change it, you dont wanna try to improve your skills? Then I think it is fair to pay for the revives then, and I say this being a F2P player.

    Farming disagrees? How will that help your progression?
    You should progress playing better, making your roster bigger, and getting resources playing if you dont want to spend money, but being able to farm the amount of revives you want because the challenges are too challenging for you is just nonsense.

    If im not able to do X content, I shouldnt just spam revives, I should see why and fix it, If its because im not good enough, I improve my skills, if its because I dont have certain champions, I try to farm shards to look for them or grind arena to get those.

    And as I said, I dont think they should make this change NOW, since the game is completely bugged, but it is not a bad change itself.
  • Thanks_D19Thanks_D19 Posts: 1,480 ★★★★
    Ok before everyone disagrees let me put out some context. Of course we would all like things to stay as they are but that probably won’t happen but I think I came up with a decent solution.

    What if there was a hard cap on the amount of revives we could have at once?

    No unlimited revive farming into overflow, just a hard cap. I think a fair limit for this cap would be 50 of the t1 revives. That way most people could still do the content without the need for tons of arena or spending and we don’t run into the issue of people trivializing content by saving hundreds of revives.

    Of course you could bypass this cap by spending units on t2 revives which won’t have the cap so if you really need to you can grind arena for those extra revives.

    Again, this is just a proposed solution which I think is a decent compromise so if you guys want to add your voice as well feel free to.
  • SavingPrivateDataSavingPrivateData Posts: 55 ★
    KABAM specifically mentioned higher tiered players gathering too many revives. Then why not base the availability on progression, like you do in stores.
    As Cav, it costs me WAY MORE to buy items, than Thronebreaker.
    Can’t you reverse that when it comes to farming, based on progression?
    Just make it tougher as you progress. That seems logical and fair.
  • JefechutaJefechuta Posts: 1,204 ★★★★
    Superman0529 said:

    Jefechuta said:

    I dont know if anyone already stated this but:


    I fairly think this is one of the best decissions they could make, content is done too easily by people that are not even skilled enough to do it just spamming revives, so this encourages people to try to learn how to really play the game properly, not only this but makes the challenging things challenging, when people is able to do this content the first day it goes out just spamming 60 revives that means that something must be done, If anyone thinks that 2 revives PER DAY is not enough, that only shows how bad people became. Getting revives became way easier than before, so I think is fair to nerf the amount we can get by farming them.

    The main problem I see here, is that they done this in the worst moment possible, since people need more revives because everything in the game is bugged, so they should have waited a little bit more to make this changes until they fixed at least half of the bugs they have currently in game.

    And to be fair with Kabam, this is not a charity, this is a company, we already get almost everything free, I dont think its that bad to have to play more Arenas to get more revives for the hard content, or spending to get them.

    I think its just a bad timing, but a really good decission, I expect a lot of disagrees but sorry fams, I dont think this is about opinions, since I repeat, you dont need more than 2 revives a day, or you shouldnt need them, If you need them then that means you are not playing properly, so you should try to change it, you dont wanna try to improve your skills? Then I think it is fair to pay for the revives then, and I say this being a F2P player.

    It’s not even guaranteed revives it’s a 1% and 5%

    Wrong, everyday you get 1 revive exploring the hard difficulty, and another one by the daily quest, and seriously, we shouldnt need to relay on revives to do content, if we need some revives because it is hard content, okay, fair, but people try to speed up things just spamming revives, thats not the way to progress.
  • Suros_moonSuros_moon Posts: 454 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    FiiNCH said:

    DNA3000 said:

    37v417 said:

    What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.

    How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
    People trying to complete content with no access to farming revives perhaps..
    Just "people?" Sure, but which people who don't have access to farming revives? Everyone keeps saying this is a cash grab. But how many of them are actually planning on spending cash because of this cash grab?

    It can't be a cash grab if no one actually spends on it. And while I'm sure someone somewhere will spend something, it won't be an effective cash grab unless a large number of players spend.

    I don't think this has anything to do with monetization, because there is simply not enough money on the table. The problem is a much more direct problem with top tier content balancing.

    Content in this game is balanced in large part on a curve. Which is to say, the more players who complete it, the easier it is. The fewer players that complete it, or the more players that attempt it and fail, the harder it is. That's the definition of content difficulty. It isn't hard because it looks hard on paper. Its hard if we can't do it.

    If we all go into EoP with a hundred revives, we're going to tear through it like it is tissue paper. This shows up in the game data as a massive imbalance between the rewards and the measured difficulty of the content. This means one of two things: EoP-like content must now have much lower rewards, or EoP-like content must be diesigned vastly harder until the content is measured to be difficult enough to be appropriate.

    The devs can't just "let us use the revives" because they can't just make the content and then let us do whatever we want to it. That's not how games like this are maintained. If we use tons of consumables to beat the content, the content will have to adjust to that.

    So what's it going to be? Eventually have all end game content *only* doable with hundreds of revives, and if you don't farm hundreds of consumables it will just be impossible for you? Or have end game content have trivial rewards appropriate to the fact that pretty much everyone sails through it? Or reduce the flow of otherwise practically unlimited consumables and allow content to be balanced around players having a more manageable amount of consumables to throw at the content.

    This problem is independent of monetization and has nothing to do with it. Whether Kabam makes more, less, or the same amount of money, they still have to solve this problem. Exponentially increase the difficulty, logarithmically lower the rewards, or reduce unlimited consumable farming. You have to pick one. And as someone who used to farm potions and revives enough to actually know the statistical average return of those maps accurately, of those three options I dislike the third one the least.

    I won't like seeing my revive farms disappear. But I think I would like seeing all future end game content be designed in such a way that neutralizes that advantage even less. Once it gets hard enough that even the top tier players are going to need hundreds of revives to complete it, what are players like me supposed to do? We'd be locked out completely. But that's where this ultimately goes, if it is left unchecked.
    You pretty conveniently skipped over the solution that has been mentioned several times in this thread: item cap the quest then tune the difficulty so that it’s feasible. If its not about monetizing (it is) then this is the most obvious solution and the one which doesn’t screw the player base
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 2,279 ★★★★★
    AustinU823 said:

    Kabam Jax said:

    Hey Summoners,

    Thank you for your feedback, we are reading every comment. Please keep your messages constructive; most of you have so far, thank you for that.

    Based on the feedback in this thread, we have started internal discussions around adjusting revive/potion inventory caps. This is not a guaranteed change, but is what is most prominently being discussed.

    These conversations will continue to take place behind the scenes and could grow to include other potential adjustments as well.

    We will use this thread to provide updates if/when we have news to share.

    Lifting the cap on revives/potions entirely seems like the only fair way to address the difficulty of some of the more challenging content like EOP. It was designed around the state of the game at the time which factored in revive farming. The average player is not going to be able to handle that with less than 50 revives going into it. I feel like this is all just a roundabout way of nerfing Hercules without nerfing him. I think the reception would be better if you guys just ripped the bandaid and nerfed him already so content doesn’t need to be overtuned and resource farming doesn’t need to be completely shut down
    Weird how the discussion keeps bobbing back to Hercules. Kabam has shown that they are willing to nerf a champ and will weather the momentary backlash. It's not Hercules. The money they've banked from players trying to get Hercules absolutely mega-swamps the amount of money they theoretically never got because players didn't have to buy as many revives, especially when people keep talking about how broken and indispensable he is whenever Kabam does anything that can be spun as anti-player.
This discussion has been closed.