Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

GinjabredMonsta · March 2023

willrun4adonut said:
I would love to see their revive farming numbers from the time they made this announcement to the time the update kicks in.

It’s over 9000!

Stature · March 2023

BigPoppaCBONE said:

DNA3000 said:

To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours.
Did I miss something, or do you have some kind of special autofight or macro the rest of us don't have? Even with autofight, I have to find the path with the revive/energy refill (if there is one and there usually is) or consolation prize potion, pick the path, autofinish the path (which only takes a few minutes at most) and replay to do it all over again or exit to go to another quest revive spot. If you leave it alone, it just sits there. It's still tremendously less involved than manually doing it, but it's not set it and forget it, plug your phone in, wander off, and come back later to dozens of freshly farmed revives. Or did you mean minutes?

He means you can do it once every 5-7 hours (the time it takes to fill up the 70 energy) and still end up with 50+ revives over a week or two. You don't need to do it by saving 30+ refills and in a 6 hour period.

Jefechuta · March 2023

Boogaloogler said:

Jefechuta said:

Kiptonade said:
Never ceases to amaze me how many people engage with a forum account with almost 100k disagrees. It’s best left ignored!
Statistically, around 80% of the population has average or bellow capacities/intelligence/IQ or whatever you wanna call it, so its senseless to state that fam, because its way more likely than most of the people are wrong than right, or they are more likely to be wrong than to be right.

He can be wrong, but your statement is absurd, just remember most of the people back then thought the Earth was flat, or that everything rotated around the Earth, and they would punish you if you said otherwise.
This is amazing. Literally everything you just said is factually incorrect.

No it is not lol, if you wanna see the data, between 70% to 80% of people, more roundly to 80% is on average or below, look for it, so It if only 20% to 30% is more capable to have the right answers, that means that the 80% to 70% is not likely to have the right answers, that means they either would be wrong or they wouldnt be able to even answer.

If you say I'm wrong then I assume you think Earth is flat.

You can look for the data fam, depending on the source, it is between those % I stated before.

So the fact that more people are agree into something it doesnt mean they are right about it, It happened with tons and tons of situations along the history of humanity, where tremendous groups of people would state something that was wrong but the quantity of people that are stating that is was wrong was lesser than the one stating it was right.

And If you want to say that something is wrong, you have to prove it, I didnt say anything wrong here.

BigPoppaCBONE · March 2023

Stature said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

DNA3000 said:

To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours.
Did I miss something, or do you have some kind of special autofight or macro the rest of us don't have? Even with autofight, I have to find the path with the revive/energy refill (if there is one and there usually is) or consolation prize potion, pick the path, autofinish the path (which only takes a few minutes at most) and replay to do it all over again or exit to go to another quest revive spot. If you leave it alone, it just sits there. It's still tremendously less involved than manually doing it, but it's not set it and forget it, plug your phone in, wander off, and come back later to dozens of freshly farmed revives. Or did you mean minutes?
He means you can do it once every 5-7 hours (the time it takes to fill up the 70 energy) and still end up with 50+ revives over a week or two. You don't need to do it by saving 30+ refills and in a 6 hour period.

OK. But is that even really farming? That's more incidentally running into a revive. Calling that farming is putting a bean in a wet paper towel and claiming dominion over the flora of Earth.

Stature · March 2023

BigPoppaCBONE said:

Stature said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

DNA3000 said:

To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours.
Did I miss something, or do you have some kind of special autofight or macro the rest of us don't have? Even with autofight, I have to find the path with the revive/energy refill (if there is one and there usually is) or consolation prize potion, pick the path, autofinish the path (which only takes a few minutes at most) and replay to do it all over again or exit to go to another quest revive spot. If you leave it alone, it just sits there. It's still tremendously less involved than manually doing it, but it's not set it and forget it, plug your phone in, wander off, and come back later to dozens of freshly farmed revives. Or did you mean minutes?
He means you can do it once every 5-7 hours (the time it takes to fill up the 70 energy) and still end up with 50+ revives over a week or two. You don't need to do it by saving 30+ refills and in a 6 hour period.
OK. But is that even really farming? That's more incidentally running into a revive. Calling that farming is putting a bean in a wet paper towel and claiming dominion over the flora of Earth.

Just an indicator of how overpowered the potential to farm is currently. If you can casually get 50+ revives in ~10 days (and at a rate of ~2 per full energy), then it is something one should expect to be adjusted. It's like a cheat code right now.

Axew · March 2023

Stature said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

Stature said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

DNA3000 said:

To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours.
Did I miss something, or do you have some kind of special autofight or macro the rest of us don't have? Even with autofight, I have to find the path with the revive/energy refill (if there is one and there usually is) or consolation prize potion, pick the path, autofinish the path (which only takes a few minutes at most) and replay to do it all over again or exit to go to another quest revive spot. If you leave it alone, it just sits there. It's still tremendously less involved than manually doing it, but it's not set it and forget it, plug your phone in, wander off, and come back later to dozens of freshly farmed revives. Or did you mean minutes?
He means you can do it once every 5-7 hours (the time it takes to fill up the 70 energy) and still end up with 50+ revives over a week or two. You don't need to do it by saving 30+ refills and in a 6 hour period.
OK. But is that even really farming? That's more incidentally running into a revive. Calling that farming is putting a bean in a wet paper towel and claiming dominion over the flora of Earth.
Just an indicator of how overpowered the potential to farm is currently. If you can casually get 50+ revives in ~10 days (and at a rate of ~2 per full energy), then it is something one should expect to be adjusted. It's like a cheat code right now.

You still have to spend resources on energy refills, whether it be with units or saved up refills. It’s not like the revives are free. Slightly toning down the drop rate is fine, but Kabam is taking the nuclear option and nerfing them into the ground, then providing us with an apothecary quest that gives resources useful for a conqueror or below.

GroundedWisdom · March 2023

Axew said:

Stature said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

Stature said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

DNA3000 said:

To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours.
Did I miss something, or do you have some kind of special autofight or macro the rest of us don't have? Even with autofight, I have to find the path with the revive/energy refill (if there is one and there usually is) or consolation prize potion, pick the path, autofinish the path (which only takes a few minutes at most) and replay to do it all over again or exit to go to another quest revive spot. If you leave it alone, it just sits there. It's still tremendously less involved than manually doing it, but it's not set it and forget it, plug your phone in, wander off, and come back later to dozens of freshly farmed revives. Or did you mean minutes?
He means you can do it once every 5-7 hours (the time it takes to fill up the 70 energy) and still end up with 50+ revives over a week or two. You don't need to do it by saving 30+ refills and in a 6 hour period.
OK. But is that even really farming? That's more incidentally running into a revive. Calling that farming is putting a bean in a wet paper towel and claiming dominion over the flora of Earth.
Just an indicator of how overpowered the potential to farm is currently. If you can casually get 50+ revives in ~10 days (and at a rate of ~2 per full energy), then it is something one should expect to be adjusted. It's like a cheat code right now.

You still have to spend resources on energy refills, whether it be with units or saved up refills. It’s not like the revives are free. Slightly toning down the drop rate is fine, but Kabam is taking the nuclear option and nerfing them into the ground, then providing us with an apothecary quest that gives resources useful for a conqueror or below.

They are when the Refills are free.

Axew · March 2023

GroundedWisdom said:

Axew said:

Stature said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

Stature said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

DNA3000 said:

To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours.
Did I miss something, or do you have some kind of special autofight or macro the rest of us don't have? Even with autofight, I have to find the path with the revive/energy refill (if there is one and there usually is) or consolation prize potion, pick the path, autofinish the path (which only takes a few minutes at most) and replay to do it all over again or exit to go to another quest revive spot. If you leave it alone, it just sits there. It's still tremendously less involved than manually doing it, but it's not set it and forget it, plug your phone in, wander off, and come back later to dozens of freshly farmed revives. Or did you mean minutes?
He means you can do it once every 5-7 hours (the time it takes to fill up the 70 energy) and still end up with 50+ revives over a week or two. You don't need to do it by saving 30+ refills and in a 6 hour period.
OK. But is that even really farming? That's more incidentally running into a revive. Calling that farming is putting a bean in a wet paper towel and claiming dominion over the flora of Earth.
Just an indicator of how overpowered the potential to farm is currently. If you can casually get 50+ revives in ~10 days (and at a rate of ~2 per full energy), then it is something one should expect to be adjusted. It's like a cheat code right now.

You still have to spend resources on energy refills, whether it be with units or saved up refills. It’s not like the revives are free. Slightly toning down the drop rate is fine, but Kabam is taking the nuclear option and nerfing them into the ground, then providing us with an apothecary quest that gives resources useful for a conqueror or below.
They are when the Refills are free.

You still have to play the game to earn those free refills. Costs time rather than money, just like arena. Except arena isn’t fun, unlike other facets of the game.

johnlaw3742 · March 2023

I was one of those who spent units spamming revives doing 0.1% damage each time during my first run 😭 but then I got good (and also went back in with Prof X)

GrampaDan said:

Grandmaster and Gwenmaster, cannot be effectively damaged until prompts are completed and have triggered their wounded phase (at least God forbid we dont see anybody spamming revives to do 0.1% each round).

JJJmJJJ · March 2023

Anyway increasing the reserve to "infinite" could be a solution, so one would have plenty of time to farm even with this new **** system....

Stature · March 2023

Axew said:

Stature said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

Stature said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

DNA3000 said:

To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours.
Did I miss something, or do you have some kind of special autofight or macro the rest of us don't have? Even with autofight, I have to find the path with the revive/energy refill (if there is one and there usually is) or consolation prize potion, pick the path, autofinish the path (which only takes a few minutes at most) and replay to do it all over again or exit to go to another quest revive spot. If you leave it alone, it just sits there. It's still tremendously less involved than manually doing it, but it's not set it and forget it, plug your phone in, wander off, and come back later to dozens of freshly farmed revives. Or did you mean minutes?
He means you can do it once every 5-7 hours (the time it takes to fill up the 70 energy) and still end up with 50+ revives over a week or two. You don't need to do it by saving 30+ refills and in a 6 hour period.
OK. But is that even really farming? That's more incidentally running into a revive. Calling that farming is putting a bean in a wet paper towel and claiming dominion over the flora of Earth.
Just an indicator of how overpowered the potential to farm is currently. If you can casually get 50+ revives in ~10 days (and at a rate of ~2 per full energy), then it is something one should expect to be adjusted. It's like a cheat code right now.

You still have to spend resources on energy refills, whether it be with units or saved up refills. It’s not like the revives are free. Slightly toning down the drop rate is fine, but Kabam is taking the nuclear option and nerfing them into the ground, then providing us with an apothecary quest that gives resources useful for a conqueror or below.

You can get 50+ revives in 10 days without using any energy refills. Log on 3 times a day and run the quest using the free energy.

In the end, you can get almost everything (champs/rank up materials) in the game for free. Up to you how soon you want it. If you need to get it sooner than everyone else, then you have to either save up units or spend on the game.

You can not expect to consistently run content which is for conqueror or below and expect it to give you resources to tackle end game content. There was a situation that this was happening, one would expect that it would get adjusted at some point.

GroundedWisdom · March 2023

Axew said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Axew said:

Stature said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

Stature said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

DNA3000 said:

To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours.
Did I miss something, or do you have some kind of special autofight or macro the rest of us don't have? Even with autofight, I have to find the path with the revive/energy refill (if there is one and there usually is) or consolation prize potion, pick the path, autofinish the path (which only takes a few minutes at most) and replay to do it all over again or exit to go to another quest revive spot. If you leave it alone, it just sits there. It's still tremendously less involved than manually doing it, but it's not set it and forget it, plug your phone in, wander off, and come back later to dozens of freshly farmed revives. Or did you mean minutes?
He means you can do it once every 5-7 hours (the time it takes to fill up the 70 energy) and still end up with 50+ revives over a week or two. You don't need to do it by saving 30+ refills and in a 6 hour period.
OK. But is that even really farming? That's more incidentally running into a revive. Calling that farming is putting a bean in a wet paper towel and claiming dominion over the flora of Earth.
Just an indicator of how overpowered the potential to farm is currently. If you can casually get 50+ revives in ~10 days (and at a rate of ~2 per full energy), then it is something one should expect to be adjusted. It's like a cheat code right now.

You still have to spend resources on energy refills, whether it be with units or saved up refills. It’s not like the revives are free. Slightly toning down the drop rate is fine, but Kabam is taking the nuclear option and nerfing them into the ground, then providing us with an apothecary quest that gives resources useful for a conqueror or below.
They are when the Refills are free.

You still have to play the game to earn those free refills. Costs time rather than money, just like arena. Except arena isn’t fun, unlike other facets of the game.

We've shown you don't actually have to play at all. Just check the game and click a few buttons.

King_Kurisu · March 2023

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Time is money....when people are milking a valuable Resource in the game that's meant to help newer Players? I find that to be a bit ignorant to the actual in-game value of those.
Also, someone can Grind the Units to do that with 0 dollars. So no one HAS to spend.
So what you're saying is, it's perfectly fine for one to grind area and farm units (let's be fair that's why people grind arena) and spam revives with the units but it's not OK for people to spend the same amount of time farming revives from 3.2.6?

You're going on like we hit 1 button to farm 1 revive in 3.2.6 when in reality it's not that fast. If we can't farm revives by ingame content then we shouldn't be allowed to farm the units in arena
People actually invest time and energy into the Arena. They play the Fights to win the Units. They don't Auto-Play on repeat.
So one doesn't invest time and energy into farming 3.2.6? Last I checked you have to allocate your time to it AND lose energy in order to do it. Fair trade off.

Fair enough, you can't auto play arena but that's the only difference. So why not just remove the ability to auto play acts 1-3, the autoplay doesn't help the new players that are at level anyway as they'll just die, the only people the autopsy helps in this aspect are the bigger accounts that are 3 hits and KO
Yes, and those Revives were included to help those newer Players, not to be taken advantage of by people doing higher content.
As for time and energy, "Enter Auto Repeat" isn't the same as actually playing the game.

This is a pretty silly argument because have the game open = playing the game. It doesn't matter what you're doing or not doing. From the business side of it, it doesn't matter what you're doing in the game. As long as the game is opened daily, it's a win for the company. That's why we get daily log in rewards. It's not for the benefit of the player, it's to give the player base a reason to log in every day.

It's simple. Every decision is for the business. Daily log calendars create daily users. Not having farmable resources means spending units on those resources. If you're spending units on resources to get through content, you can't save units. If you can't save units, the only option is to buy the big deals and then spend those units on unit deals.

Axew · March 2023

GroundedWisdom said:

Axew said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Axew said:

Stature said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

Stature said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

DNA3000 said:

To put the time expense into perspective, 3.2.6 farming requires something on the order of about six to ten taps on the screen every five to seven hours.
Did I miss something, or do you have some kind of special autofight or macro the rest of us don't have? Even with autofight, I have to find the path with the revive/energy refill (if there is one and there usually is) or consolation prize potion, pick the path, autofinish the path (which only takes a few minutes at most) and replay to do it all over again or exit to go to another quest revive spot. If you leave it alone, it just sits there. It's still tremendously less involved than manually doing it, but it's not set it and forget it, plug your phone in, wander off, and come back later to dozens of freshly farmed revives. Or did you mean minutes?
He means you can do it once every 5-7 hours (the time it takes to fill up the 70 energy) and still end up with 50+ revives over a week or two. You don't need to do it by saving 30+ refills and in a 6 hour period.
OK. But is that even really farming? That's more incidentally running into a revive. Calling that farming is putting a bean in a wet paper towel and claiming dominion over the flora of Earth.
Just an indicator of how overpowered the potential to farm is currently. If you can casually get 50+ revives in ~10 days (and at a rate of ~2 per full energy), then it is something one should expect to be adjusted. It's like a cheat code right now.

You still have to spend resources on energy refills, whether it be with units or saved up refills. It’s not like the revives are free. Slightly toning down the drop rate is fine, but Kabam is taking the nuclear option and nerfing them into the ground, then providing us with an apothecary quest that gives resources useful for a conqueror or below.
They are when the Refills are free.

You still have to play the game to earn those free refills. Costs time rather than money, just like arena. Except arena isn’t fun, unlike other facets of the game.

We've shown you don't actually have to play at all. Just check the game and click a few buttons.

Disregarding the numerous energy refills we earn through solo/alliance events, the energy refills from 4hr crystals still counts as playing. Logging in counts, there is no specific requirement stating “in order to play the game you have to enter a fight”. Even then, getting a refill from those crystals is RNG based, further limiting the supply of refills.

Mackey · March 2023

King_Kurisu said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Time is money....when people are milking a valuable Resource in the game that's meant to help newer Players? I find that to be a bit ignorant to the actual in-game value of those.
Also, someone can Grind the Units to do that with 0 dollars. So no one HAS to spend.
So what you're saying is, it's perfectly fine for one to grind area and farm units (let's be fair that's why people grind arena) and spam revives with the units but it's not OK for people to spend the same amount of time farming revives from 3.2.6?

You're going on like we hit 1 button to farm 1 revive in 3.2.6 when in reality it's not that fast. If we can't farm revives by ingame content then we shouldn't be allowed to farm the units in arena
People actually invest time and energy into the Arena. They play the Fights to win the Units. They don't Auto-Play on repeat.
So one doesn't invest time and energy into farming 3.2.6? Last I checked you have to allocate your time to it AND lose energy in order to do it. Fair trade off.

Fair enough, you can't auto play arena but that's the only difference. So why not just remove the ability to auto play acts 1-3, the autoplay doesn't help the new players that are at level anyway as they'll just die, the only people the autopsy helps in this aspect are the bigger accounts that are 3 hits and KO
Yes, and those Revives were included to help those newer Players, not to be taken advantage of by people doing higher content.
As for time and energy, "Enter Auto Repeat" isn't the same as actually playing the game.
This is a pretty silly argument because have the game open = playing the game. It doesn't matter what you're doing or not doing. From the business side of it, it doesn't matter what you're doing in the game. As long as the game is opened daily, it's a win for the company. That's why we get daily log in rewards. It's not for the benefit of the player, it's to give the player base a reason to log in every day.

It's simple. Every decision is for the business. Daily log calendars create daily users. Not having farmable resources means spending units on those resources. If you're spending units on resources to get through content, you can't save units. If you can't save units, the only option is to buy the big deals and then spend those units on unit deals.

Which is exactly what they want us to do .... spend more money

GroundedWisdom · March 2023

Mackey said:

King_Kurisu said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Time is money....when people are milking a valuable Resource in the game that's meant to help newer Players? I find that to be a bit ignorant to the actual in-game value of those.
Also, someone can Grind the Units to do that with 0 dollars. So no one HAS to spend.
So what you're saying is, it's perfectly fine for one to grind area and farm units (let's be fair that's why people grind arena) and spam revives with the units but it's not OK for people to spend the same amount of time farming revives from 3.2.6?

You're going on like we hit 1 button to farm 1 revive in 3.2.6 when in reality it's not that fast. If we can't farm revives by ingame content then we shouldn't be allowed to farm the units in arena
People actually invest time and energy into the Arena. They play the Fights to win the Units. They don't Auto-Play on repeat.
So one doesn't invest time and energy into farming 3.2.6? Last I checked you have to allocate your time to it AND lose energy in order to do it. Fair trade off.

Fair enough, you can't auto play arena but that's the only difference. So why not just remove the ability to auto play acts 1-3, the autoplay doesn't help the new players that are at level anyway as they'll just die, the only people the autopsy helps in this aspect are the bigger accounts that are 3 hits and KO
Yes, and those Revives were included to help those newer Players, not to be taken advantage of by people doing higher content.
As for time and energy, "Enter Auto Repeat" isn't the same as actually playing the game.
This is a pretty silly argument because have the game open = playing the game. It doesn't matter what you're doing or not doing. From the business side of it, it doesn't matter what you're doing in the game. As long as the game is opened daily, it's a win for the company. That's why we get daily log in rewards. It's not for the benefit of the player, it's to give the player base a reason to log in every day.

It's simple. Every decision is for the business. Daily log calendars create daily users. Not having farmable resources means spending units on those resources. If you're spending units on resources to get through content, you can't save units. If you can't save units, the only option is to buy the big deals and then spend those units on unit deals.
Which is exactly what they want us to do .... spend more money

You don't have to spend money to save the Revs we get and go in with a number of Units. People want a Bounty quicker-picker-upper.

leftykiller8 · March 2023

Kabam: Let’s address a few things. I saw that you read through all the comments in this thread, so please keep with me until the end, because I’m going to address everything in the order that Kabam Jax relayed it to us. I can’t say that I understand what you’re doing with this. Kabam Jax stated, “Every day there is an average between 100K and 300K revives farmed using this method.” That statement is a fact without context, which is not truth. An example of what I mean by that is: Dark chocolate is contains antioxidants. While that is a fact, it does not mean that eating a lot of dark chocolate is healthy for a person. A statistic that would give context to your statement would be the average or median number of revives active Summoners farm every day. Because if Summoners are averaging 5-10 revives per day, I’m not quite sure how you can justify that being a problem. People farm what they need. They aren’t going to waste time farming revives, if they have no need for them. I would much rather spend the time I use revive farming in Arena, Incursions, EQ, or Acts 7 & 8, but I don’t because it is better for me to farm revives. I’m sure other people view this problem the same way. Kabam Jax then said that revive farming allows Summoners to “simply spam revives.” To paraphrase the meme: one does not simply spam revives. Revive farming takes time and in game energy to do. We are limited to approximately 250 energy per day (wake up with full 70 +10 per hour for 16 hours + 20 from Alliance mates). We can use full energy refills to gain more energy, but those can’t be auto-farmed. This whole process still takes hours of in game time to do, not all of which can be auto-played. We can only hold 15 revives in our inventory, and the rest go away after 2 weeks. So it’s not like we can actually gain or hold an infinite amount of revives. That would require infinite time and energy, which the laws of nature don’t even allow for. This also does not actually keep Summoners from spamming revives. It just makes it to where they have to pay for them with hard-grinded units or IRL currency. You should understand that the fact that many Summoners need to farm so much, speaks directly to how difficult the content actually is. Since Carina’s Challenges was specifically addressed, I’ll specifically refer to the challenge of running through Labyrinth with a 4* Star Lord. It does not matter how skilled you are, that is a minimum of 60 revives to do that challenge, which would equate to ~1,200 units, not including boosts, and I would challenge your best player to prove me wrong on that one. That’s a MINIMUM 1,200 units for rewards that aren’t worth that investment. I could buy that T5B in the catalyst store for 240 units or about 600 Glory, and the 9,000 T3A fragments for about 4,500 Glory. So I will never do that challenge without revive farming. It’s just not worth it. The same can be said for many other Carina’s Challenges, which not only require specific champion counters to even think about attempting, but also require a significant time and revive investment too. Even without this extra end game content though, I personally revive farm because Thronebreaker difficulty is too hard for me each month, especially considering the random dropped inputs that happen periodically, and one glitch or mistake gets my champ KO’d. I would much rather use my energy doing other things, but I revive farm as a way to allow myself to get through monthly EQ as well. Let’s move on to the Apothecary. Not a horrible idea, but extremely poor execution. One level 1 revive per day? Are you kidding me? Let’s start with the fact that nobody really wants level 1 revives, level 2 revives are way better, level 3 are preferred. A level 1 revive does nothing in end game content without potions to go with them, and the level 3 potions from RoL are a joke for 5* and 6* champions. This leads into my next point, percentage based health potions are long overdue in this game. Giving a Paragon player anything less than a level 4 health potion is more of an insult than anything. Even a somewhat squishy champion like Omega Sentinel at 6* Rank 3 has about 30K health, so a level 3 health potion gives back around 5% of the health back and level, level 2 ~2.5%, and level 1 ~1.25%. It’s honestly nothing. The amount of farming the players have to do for potions is already obnoxious, and the Apothecary is not going to help in the slightest.

Now, before I get to some of the more constructive parts of my post, allow me to give you something else to think about. Revive farming actually keeps people spending more time in your game. Without it, people could move on to arena or something else, but they could also just play less too, which does not incentivize spending. This will also cause most people to abandon the more challenging content all together. I know that if I’m not able to revive farm, I won’t boot up your game in the middle of the day to waste my energy while I’m on a break at work. Without the additional revives, I’m going to abandon Thronebreaker EQ as well. I’ll most likely just spend my time in AQ and AW, run through lower end EQ for small amounts of units, and then move on to something outside of the game. To summarize, revive farming allows me and the majority of your player base to challenge the content, and even makes us want to do so. If you take it away and do not replace it with something that is actually worthwhile, then people will at least lose some interest in your game. I’m not going to say that many people will quit. Let’s face it, despite the bugs, dropped inputs, and the feelings of being failed by Kabam, we still love this game. I think the people who quit will be minimal, but you will have killed the motivation to spend so much time playing this game, which is not good for the game in the long run.

Fear not, though, my Kabam Overlords, for I come bringing suggestions!

1. You could just leave things as they are. I think you’re making this into a bigger deal than it really is. Some of us, myself included, cannot simply grow the skill to do some of the ridiculous content that you have created. Not everybody who is Paragon in this game is a MSD, KT1, Seatin, Happy McMuffins, or anybody who is in a top tier Alliance. Some of us are mediocre and have just been playing for 7 years or so, because we love this game, enjoy the challenges faced to us, but also understand we must work harder than more skilled players to complete them (i.e., revive farm a ton). I don’t think you will go for this option, so I’ve got five more that I think you will find to be more reasonable.

2. Get rid of full energy refills in 5.3.6. The full energy refills that consistently spawn in that map are what cause the ability to revive farm for as much as people can in one day. Without that, people are stuck with an in-game energy limit of ~250 energy per day that I mentioned earlier. Doing nothing other than revive farming, that means people are limited to 5 or 6 revives per day, maybe 10 if they are incredibly lucky. This option allows people to farm what they need for content, and spend units if they want to try for more.

3. You could get rid of the timers in Labyrinth and Abyss that make it to where you must use a revive, no matter how skilled you are, just because the fight went on for too long. Doing this would give some credibility to your statements about challenges being meant as challenges, instead of what Summoners see them as: content made to have us dump revives and units into.

4. Up the inventory cap. This inventory cap is annoying and does not matter in end game content. You will have to use more revives than you can carry when going to extremely difficult content. This will also have the added benefit of making lv 1 and 2 health potions to retain value. I quite honestly sell so many of them or save them for Item Use days, because they are worthless otherwise. If you can hold 100 lv 1 or 2 health potions though, that adds up to a great deal of health for a maxed out 5* or 6* champion.

5. Up the amount of revives and potions gained from the proposed Apocathary. I also think that upping the level of the revives and potions gained from it would be great too. Offering Uncollected players and above lv 1 and 2 potions is honestly an insult. I’ve already pointed out how they don’t heal enough to be worth anything to your average player.

6. Add more revives and potions to daily challenges and/or events. This would give players access to more resources without doing as much extra work. This would have the added benefit of showing some good will for the players.

Thank you for your time and consideration for reading through this post. I hope that it has given you some food for thought and at least shown that there are other alternatives that your company can do that will not alienate your player base even more.

Mackey · March 2023

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

King_Kurisu said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Time is money....when people are milking a valuable Resource in the game that's meant to help newer Players? I find that to be a bit ignorant to the actual in-game value of those.
Also, someone can Grind the Units to do that with 0 dollars. So no one HAS to spend.
So what you're saying is, it's perfectly fine for one to grind area and farm units (let's be fair that's why people grind arena) and spam revives with the units but it's not OK for people to spend the same amount of time farming revives from 3.2.6?

You're going on like we hit 1 button to farm 1 revive in 3.2.6 when in reality it's not that fast. If we can't farm revives by ingame content then we shouldn't be allowed to farm the units in arena
People actually invest time and energy into the Arena. They play the Fights to win the Units. They don't Auto-Play on repeat.
So one doesn't invest time and energy into farming 3.2.6? Last I checked you have to allocate your time to it AND lose energy in order to do it. Fair trade off.

Fair enough, you can't auto play arena but that's the only difference. So why not just remove the ability to auto play acts 1-3, the autoplay doesn't help the new players that are at level anyway as they'll just die, the only people the autopsy helps in this aspect are the bigger accounts that are 3 hits and KO
Yes, and those Revives were included to help those newer Players, not to be taken advantage of by people doing higher content.
As for time and energy, "Enter Auto Repeat" isn't the same as actually playing the game.
This is a pretty silly argument because have the game open = playing the game. It doesn't matter what you're doing or not doing. From the business side of it, it doesn't matter what you're doing in the game. As long as the game is opened daily, it's a win for the company. That's why we get daily log in rewards. It's not for the benefit of the player, it's to give the player base a reason to log in every day.

It's simple. Every decision is for the business. Daily log calendars create daily users. Not having farmable resources means spending units on those resources. If you're spending units on resources to get through content, you can't save units. If you can't save units, the only option is to buy the big deals and then spend those units on unit deals.
Which is exactly what they want us to do .... spend more money
You don't have to spend money to save the Revs we get and go in with a number of Units. People want a Bounty quicker-picker-upper.

I don't believe I said that I did ... no need to put words in my mouth now. It is very clear they are hoping this change will encourage more spending for revives. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you 🤷‍♂️

kikiFurieux · March 2023

Let's be honest... When you see how everyone you face in Battleground is soooo good you wonder why the revive farming nerf is a big deal, it's obvious those guys don't need revive potions anywhere anyway...

Ironman3000 · March 2023

leftykiller8 said:
Now, before I get to some of the more constructive parts of my post, allow me to give you something else to think about. Revive farming actually keeps people spending more time in your game. Without it, people could move on to arena or something else, but they could also just play less too, which does not incentivize spending. This will also cause most people to abandon the more challenging content all together. I know that if I’m not able to revive farm, I won’t boot up your game in the middle of the day to waste my energy while I’m on a break at work. Without the additional revives, I’m going to abandon Thronebreaker EQ as well. I’ll most likely just spend my time in AQ and AW, run through lower end EQ for small amounts of units, and then move on to something outside of the game. To summarize, revive farming allows me and the majority of your player base to challenge the content, and even makes us want to do so. If you take it away and do not replace it with something that is actually worthwhile, then people will at least lose some interest in your game. I’m not going to say that many people will quit. Let’s face it, despite the bugs, dropped inputs, and the feelings of being failed by Kabam, we still love this game. I think the people who quit will be minimal, but you will have killed the motivation to spend so much time playing this game, which is not good for the game in the long run.

This is the whole point that Kamab doesn't seem to get.

Happy people that willingly play the game and farm to play the toughest content typically are the ones who will spend money.

Upset people who feel that the company has taken away their only way to get through content are much more likely to just quit the game than spent to get through the content.

It's been in the game for almost 2 years and people rely on ion it to get through content so taking it out now is a huge blow. Also, I'm sure that much of the new content released was done so with the farm in mind, which is why it's such a revive suck. To take the farm away w/o changing the content for those who have yet to do it is just going to make them never do it.

They say they don't want to make content that people get through too easily w/ free revives. What happens when people stop doing the content after they take away the farm? What happens to the game when people stop doing the content? How long does it survive?

GroundedWisdom · March 2023

Mackey said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

King_Kurisu said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mackey said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Time is money....when people are milking a valuable Resource in the game that's meant to help newer Players? I find that to be a bit ignorant to the actual in-game value of those.
Also, someone can Grind the Units to do that with 0 dollars. So no one HAS to spend.
So what you're saying is, it's perfectly fine for one to grind area and farm units (let's be fair that's why people grind arena) and spam revives with the units but it's not OK for people to spend the same amount of time farming revives from 3.2.6?

You're going on like we hit 1 button to farm 1 revive in 3.2.6 when in reality it's not that fast. If we can't farm revives by ingame content then we shouldn't be allowed to farm the units in arena
People actually invest time and energy into the Arena. They play the Fights to win the Units. They don't Auto-Play on repeat.
So one doesn't invest time and energy into farming 3.2.6? Last I checked you have to allocate your time to it AND lose energy in order to do it. Fair trade off.

Fair enough, you can't auto play arena but that's the only difference. So why not just remove the ability to auto play acts 1-3, the autoplay doesn't help the new players that are at level anyway as they'll just die, the only people the autopsy helps in this aspect are the bigger accounts that are 3 hits and KO
Yes, and those Revives were included to help those newer Players, not to be taken advantage of by people doing higher content.
As for time and energy, "Enter Auto Repeat" isn't the same as actually playing the game.
This is a pretty silly argument because have the game open = playing the game. It doesn't matter what you're doing or not doing. From the business side of it, it doesn't matter what you're doing in the game. As long as the game is opened daily, it's a win for the company. That's why we get daily log in rewards. It's not for the benefit of the player, it's to give the player base a reason to log in every day.

It's simple. Every decision is for the business. Daily log calendars create daily users. Not having farmable resources means spending units on those resources. If you're spending units on resources to get through content, you can't save units. If you can't save units, the only option is to buy the big deals and then spend those units on unit deals.
Which is exactly what they want us to do .... spend more money
You don't have to spend money to save the Revs we get and go in with a number of Units. People want a Bounty quicker-picker-upper.
I don't believe I said that I did ... no need to put words in my mouth now. It is very clear they are hoping this change will encourage more spending for revives. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you 🤷‍♂️

People keep saying that this is some great ploy to get people to spend on Revives, but the only evidence they have is that you can buy them with Units.

Searmenis · March 2023

I was wondering, and correct me if I m wrong, where do all these people that farm 30 revives/day (more or less) get their energy refills? Because, aside from buying them directly, or through finishing EQ offers and the Sigil, (all these are money or units so they don't count as "free" in kabam logic,) the game gives you max...5 refills/ week, and if you also open your 4hrs crystals, you could get another maybe 10 if you re lucky.
That's 15 refills/week, that may end up in 20 additional runs through a path in 3.2.6. And these runs may give you approximately 16-18 lvl 1 revives, again, each, WEEK.

So, where all these astronomical numbers come from? Because kabam says this whole situation was monitored for more than a year, so they can distinguish someone who was hoarding refills and 4hrs crystals, from someone who uses what the game gives him. Right?

GrandOldKai · March 2023

Searmenis said:
I was wondering, and correct me if I m wrong, where do all these people that farm 30 revives/day (more or less) get their energy refills? Because, aside from buying them directly, or through finishing EQ offers and the Sigil, (all these are money or units so they don't count as "free" in kabam logic,) the game gives you max...5 refills/ week, and if you also open your 4hrs crystals, you could get another maybe 10 if you re lucky.
That's 15 refills/week, that may end up in 20 additional runs through a path in 3.2.6. And these runs may give you approximately 16-18 lvl 1 revives, again, each, WEEK.

So, where all these astronomical numbers come from? Because kabam says this whole situation was monitored for more than a year, so they can distinguish someone who was hoarding refills and 4hrs crystals, from someone who uses what the game gives him. Right?

The Energy Refills can occasionally spawn on that same map.

Stature · March 2023

GroundedWisdom said:
People keep saying that this is some great ploy to get people to spend on Revives, but the only evidence they have is that you can buy them with Units.

Unless there is a drastic change in content design, any new endgame content will need revives. All existing end game content also needs revives. Availability of revives has been reduced. What do you think happens?

Realistically players only have two choices - not to attempt endgame content or buy the revives needed to complete it. Some people will not attempt it, some others will buy revives with units. Of the ones who will buy revives with units, some will have units (or grind them in arenas) while some will buy them with money.

As a knock on effect, since fewer people will finish endgame content - including some increased spending on it - the seasonal unit deal (Jul 4th, CW, Banquet etc.) will be a bit more valuable (since endgame rewards are now available to fewer people). Again some people will grind units for this, some will buy.

It is naive to think that this decision was made with a view that it will have a negative revenue impact for the game. The hope clearly is that endgame players used to endgame rewards will still attempt endgame content even if it requires spending (units or money). There is no way this move would have been approved if the internal analysis implied that there would be actual revenue loss from this.

Either that or the data shows that it is a small number of players who are revive farming to that extent (5-15K players accounting for bulk of the 100-300K revives). Consequently, despite the forum noise, actual impact on playing experience of the majority of players is relatively small.

GroundedWisdom · March 2023

Stature said:

GroundedWisdom said:
People keep saying that this is some great ploy to get people to spend on Revives, but the only evidence they have is that you can buy them with Units.
Unless there is a drastic change in content design, any new endgame content will need revives. All existing end game content also needs revives. Availability of revives has been reduced. What do you think happens?

Realistically players only have two choices - not to attempt endgame content or buy the revives needed to complete it. Some people will not attempt it, some others will buy revives with units. Of the ones who will buy revives with units, some will have units (or grind them in arenas) while some will buy them with money.

As a knock on effect, since fewer people will finish endgame content - including some increased spending on it - the seasonal unit deal (Jul 4th, CW, Banquet etc.) will be a bit more valuable (since endgame rewards are now available to fewer people). Again some people will grind units for this, some will buy.

It is naive to think that this decision was made with a view that it will have a negative revenue impact for the game. The hope clearly is that endgame players used to endgame rewards will still attempt endgame content even if it requires spending (units or money). There is no way this move would have been approved if the internal analysis implied that there would be actual revenue loss from this.

Either that or the data shows that it is a small number of players who are revive farming to that extent (5-15K players accounting for bulk of the 100-300K revives). Consequently, despite the forum noise, actual impact on playing experience of the majority of players is relatively small.

People do not have to spend to get Revives. They never have. Units are an accumulated Resource in the game. In fact, I've heard that accusation with just about every ill-received change I can think of. Apparently anything Players don't want is a coup to milk the Players.
Would I say that a valuable Resource is being harvested at a much higher rate that's intended? Absolutely. That undervalues it for sure. That's a bigger problem than the possibility that people might spend to get through content. That's not the sole objective.
If they removed all Revs from the game and made them only acquirable through the Unit Store, that theory might be onto something. The reality is money only saves time in this game. People only spend when they don't want to wait.

Ironman3000 · March 2023

GroundedWisdom said:

Stature said:

GroundedWisdom said:
People keep saying that this is some great ploy to get people to spend on Revives, but the only evidence they have is that you can buy them with Units.
Unless there is a drastic change in content design, any new endgame content will need revives. All existing end game content also needs revives. Availability of revives has been reduced. What do you think happens?

Realistically players only have two choices - not to attempt endgame content or buy the revives needed to complete it. Some people will not attempt it, some others will buy revives with units. Of the ones who will buy revives with units, some will have units (or grind them in arenas) while some will buy them with money.

As a knock on effect, since fewer people will finish endgame content - including some increased spending on it - the seasonal unit deal (Jul 4th, CW, Banquet etc.) will be a bit more valuable (since endgame rewards are now available to fewer people). Again some people will grind units for this, some will buy.

It is naive to think that this decision was made with a view that it will have a negative revenue impact for the game. The hope clearly is that endgame players used to endgame rewards will still attempt endgame content even if it requires spending (units or money). There is no way this move would have been approved if the internal analysis implied that there would be actual revenue loss from this.

Either that or the data shows that it is a small number of players who are revive farming to that extent (5-15K players accounting for bulk of the 100-300K revives). Consequently, despite the forum noise, actual impact on playing experience of the majority of players is relatively small.
People do not have to spend to get Revives. They never have. Units are an accumulated Resource in the game. In fact, I've heard that accusation with just about every ill-received change I can think of. Apparently anything Players don't want is a coup to milk the Players.
Would I say that a valuable Resource is being harvested at a much higher rate that's intended? Absolutely. That undervalues it for sure. That's a bigger problem than the possibility that people might spend to get through content. That's not the sole objective.
If they removed all Revs from the game and made them only acquirable through the Unit Store, that theory might be onto something. The reality is money only saves time in this game. People only spend when they don't want to wait.

True, but this change is the firs one that will essentially bar players form completing content w/o spending. That's why it's such a big deal IMO.

And I'm sure they'll add an extra revive to the apothecary and hope we all accept it.

Boogaloogler · March 2023

Jefechuta said:

Boogaloogler said:

Jefechuta said:

Kiptonade said:
Never ceases to amaze me how many people engage with a forum account with almost 100k disagrees. It’s best left ignored!
Statistically, around 80% of the population has average or bellow capacities/intelligence/IQ or whatever you wanna call it, so its senseless to state that fam, because its way more likely than most of the people are wrong than right, or they are more likely to be wrong than to be right.

He can be wrong, but your statement is absurd, just remember most of the people back then thought the Earth was flat, or that everything rotated around the Earth, and they would punish you if you said otherwise.
This is amazing. Literally everything you just said is factually incorrect.
No it is not lol, if you wanna see the data, between 70% to 80% of people, more roundly to 80% is on average or below, look for it, so It if only 20% to 30% is more capable to have the right answers, that means that the 80% to 70% is not likely to have the right answers, that means they either would be wrong or they wouldnt be able to even answer.

If you say I'm wrong then I assume you think Earth is flat.

You can look for the data fam, depending on the source, it is between those % I stated before.

So the fact that more people are agree into something it doesnt mean they are right about it, It happened with tons and tons of situations along the history of humanity, where tremendous groups of people would state something that was wrong but the quantity of people that are stating that is was wrong was lesser than the one stating it was right.

And If you want to say that something is wrong, you have to prove it, I didnt say anything wrong here.

I would urge you to go look up the definition of "average". And then when you're done, go look up the true history of flat earth theory. It wasn't so commonly believed as you might think

Stature · March 2023

GroundedWisdom said:

Stature said:

GroundedWisdom said:
People keep saying that this is some great ploy to get people to spend on Revives, but the only evidence they have is that you can buy them with Units.
Unless there is a drastic change in content design, any new endgame content will need revives. All existing end game content also needs revives. Availability of revives has been reduced. What do you think happens?

Realistically players only have two choices - not to attempt endgame content or buy the revives needed to complete it. Some people will not attempt it, some others will buy revives with units. Of the ones who will buy revives with units, some will have units (or grind them in arenas) while some will buy them with money.

As a knock on effect, since fewer people will finish endgame content - including some increased spending on it - the seasonal unit deal (Jul 4th, CW, Banquet etc.) will be a bit more valuable (since endgame rewards are now available to fewer people). Again some people will grind units for this, some will buy.

It is naive to think that this decision was made with a view that it will have a negative revenue impact for the game. The hope clearly is that endgame players used to endgame rewards will still attempt endgame content even if it requires spending (units or money). There is no way this move would have been approved if the internal analysis implied that there would be actual revenue loss from this.

Either that or the data shows that it is a small number of players who are revive farming to that extent (5-15K players accounting for bulk of the 100-300K revives). Consequently, despite the forum noise, actual impact on playing experience of the majority of players is relatively small.
People do not have to spend to get Revives. They never have. Units are an accumulated Resource in the game. In fact, I've heard that accusation with just about every ill-received change I can think of. Apparently anything Players don't want is a coup to milk the Players.
Would I say that a valuable Resource is being harvested at a much higher rate that's intended? Absolutely. That undervalues it for sure. That's a bigger problem than the possibility that people might spend to get through content. That's not the sole objective.
If they removed all Revs from the game and made them only acquirable through the Unit Store, that theory might be onto something. The reality is money only saves time in this game. People only spend when they don't want to wait.

I don't recall saying people have to spend on revives or anything else. A free source of revives is being removed - it will either lead to lower use of revives or increase the usage of other avenues of acquiring revives. One of those avenues is spending money. So it is possible that some people will spend money on revives due to this change. I am not even claiming this is the intent - all I am saying is that if the effect were reverse and the change would be considered to impact revenues negatively, it would never be approved.

The game wouldn't exist if it were not for people spending money on it. I cannot understand why it is a surprise to you that in a game whose entire reason for existence is the revenues it generates from selling items to players, the management team would consider that angle in any change it implements.

What do you think it means when you say "valuable Resource is being harvested at a much higher rate that's intended?" The idea is that the resource is available at a rate that a small % of the player base can use it to meet all objectives, remaining players can use it to meet some objectives but not all. The expectation is some of the players in the second set will spend money to bridge the gap in resources. Revenues may not be the major driver for changes in the game, but it is almost always a consideration in any major step taken.

Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

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