Relic node that punishes the player?

https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc

https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?

DarkestDestroyer

https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?

For not having a relic on the champs….that’s my point

https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?
For not having a relic on the champs….that’s my point

The 2 videos show that the node doesn't matter. I was able to do both fights without ever needing the relics. You aren't being punished. Especially in the Skill chapter.

DarkestDestroyer

@Demonzfyre you have got them on your champs, the point is, without having a relic on the champs, you are being punished for not.

Even though it isn’t much of a punishment, you just can’t gain any power, but that’s what I thought they said, the relics wouldn’t put players who don’t have a relic, at a disadvantage, but this does to some degree.

Pikolu

Black widow DO, Nick Fury, and Hit monkey don't really need to throw their specials to nuke the fight. The only champions that are disadvantaged would be like Kingpin where he has to throw his sp1 to place a DoT on the opponent. Even then, I wouldn't really use him this month since there are many better DoTers than him which benefit from the global skill node much better.

DarkestDestroyer

https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?
For not having a relic on the champs….that’s my point
The 2 videos show that the node doesn't matter. I was able to do both fights without ever needing the relics. You aren't being punished. Especially in the Skill chapter.

Yeah I said that in my first post, I did the fight regardless fine, but last month it was questioned if this was a thing to come in the future, will we be at disadvantages for not having relics on champs

@Demonzfyre you have got them on your champs, the point is, without having a relic on the champs, you are being punished for not.

Even though it isn’t much of a punishment, you just can’t gain any power, but that’s what I thought they said, the relics wouldn’t put players who don’t have a relic, at a disadvantage, but this does to some degree.

You have to use the relic to get the benefit. In the video with OGBP, I have no relic and it took nearly the same time to take down the same fight with a R1 as it did my R4 BWDO. Both fights are less than a minute.

You aren't at a disadvantage, especially in the quest, because the other beneficial nodes for expiring debuffs increase your damage with the fury's you gain and your DOT's kill the defender quickly.

Fireatwill

https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?

How convenient that you failed to read the -90% power gain, and then post irrelevant propaganda videos.

Pikolu

https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?
How convenient that you failed to read the -90% power gain, and then post irrelevant propaganda videos.

Tell me you didn't watch the videos without telling me

King_Kurisu

https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?
How convenient that you failed to read the -90% power gain, and then post irrelevant propaganda videos.

It’s simple. Use champs that don’t rely on special attacks for damage.

https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?
How convenient that you failed to read the -90% power gain, and then post irrelevant propaganda videos.

The whole point of both videos is to show that the -90% power gain is meaningless. I am very aware of what the node says my guy. You don't need to throw specials on that path. It truly makes no difference because your DOT effects are doing to do more damage than most specials will. Now, go play and let the adults talk.

https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?
How convenient that you failed to read the -90% power gain, and then post irrelevant propaganda videos.
Now, go play and let the adults talk.

Such an arrogant and un-need comment to finish your post.

JT_Supreme

Kabams pushing relics and I bet they will be even more needed to do content in the near future.

I agree that you can work around the node, by just ignoring it.

It does hint at a slippery slope with this type of node though and that’s what I feel is the meaning of this post.

Mackey

It's funny how many people are quick to point out ways around it when the OP wasn't even trying to say anything about getting around it. I understand his point perfectly fine. It's not that this node is hurtful but it's a sign that, things could get worse.

https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?
How convenient that you failed to read the -90% power gain, and then post irrelevant propaganda videos.
Now, go play and let the adults talk.
Such an arrogant and un-need comment to finish your post.

I respond in kind. If you want to engage in a proper back and forth, I'm down but if you don't watch the videos, accuse me of not reading the nodes and call my videos propaganda, I'll respond appropriately.

https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?
How convenient that you failed to read the -90% power gain, and then post irrelevant propaganda videos.
Now, go play and let the adults talk.
Such an arrogant and un-need comment to finish your post.

I respond in kind. If you want to engage in a proper back and forth, I'm down but if you don't watch the videos, accuse me of not reading the nodes and call my videos propaganda, I'll respond appropriately.

Ever heard of an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

You posted a video of you ignoring the node, which I do agree works as that’s how I got around it. However you seem to have missed the point of this post.

https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?
How convenient that you failed to read the -90% power gain, and then post irrelevant propaganda videos.
Now, go play and let the adults talk.
Such an arrogant and un-need comment to finish your post.

I respond in kind. If you want to engage in a proper back and forth, I'm down but if you don't watch the videos, accuse me of not reading the nodes and call my videos propaganda, I'll respond appropriately.

The videos you posted don't do anything to counter OPs argument though. The relics do in fact punish the player if they don't have a relic equipped, as they still get the disadvantage without gaining any advantage. If the node was only in effect if a relic was equipped, then it wouldn't punish. So regardless of it has a big impact, regardless of the others nodes helping more than this one hurts, you are still by definition at a disadvantage by not using a relic.

OP literally said that they didn't see it as a big issue, just that it's a concerning sign going forward. You came in here high and mighty posting two cherry picked fights to counter an argument that never really existed is completely pointless. You're just creating a strawman argument to try and look correct.

Like, 95% of the time I'm defending Kabam against the community on these posts. But to try and come in here arguing against what OP said, when this is by textbook definition a disadvantage when not using a relic, is hilariously biased.

https://youtu.be/34wTN4PWAng

https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?
How convenient that you failed to read the -90% power gain, and then post irrelevant propaganda videos.
Now, go play and let the adults talk.
Such an arrogant and un-need comment to finish your post.

I respond in kind. If you want to engage in a proper back and forth, I'm down but if you don't watch the videos, accuse me of not reading the nodes and call my videos propaganda, I'll respond appropriately.
The videos you posted don't do anything to counter OPs argument though. The relics do in fact punish the player if they don't have a relic equipped, as they still get the disadvantage without gaining any advantage. If the node was only in effect if a relic was equipped, then it wouldn't punish. So regardless of it has a big impact, regardless of the others nodes helping more than this one hurts, you are still by definition at a disadvantage by not using a relic.

OP literally said that they didn't see it as a big issue, just that it's a concerning sign going forward. You came in here high and mighty posting two cherry picked fights to counter an argument that never really existed is completely pointless. You're just creating a strawman argument to try and look correct.

NF w/o relic- 48 second fight
BWDO w/relic- 47 second fight 1 SP1 made.
BWDO w/relic- 40 second fight 1 SP1 made.
NF w/o relic- 52 second fight
Jabari w/relic- 1:11 second fight 1 SP1 made.

Let me know if running the entire path is still too cherry picked. I recorded the Quake fight at the end but cute the video off before I the stats screen popped up but you'll see that it wasn't a long fight either

I don't see any difference in the fights w/relics and the fights without. I don't see any advantage or disadvantage in using them or not using them and I'd even argue that just in general, these fights are long with relics for the whole path as it since I could only manage to get 1 special off in each fight even with 100% increased spirit meter. Regardless if you use a relic or not, this path, fights take longer than the other paths period. Even If I use a special, i'm only able to use it once.

While the relic is isn't either an advantage or disadvantage, the node design is a hinderance because you aren't getting as much power period as you do in the other paths.

Full video

Did you ignore the node? and just not use specials?

Did you ignore the node? and just not use specials?

See the edited comment.

Fireatwill

https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?
How convenient that you failed to read the -90% power gain, and then post irrelevant propaganda videos.
The whole point of both videos is to show that the -90% power gain is meaningless. I am very aware of what the node says my guy. You don't need to throw specials on that path. It truly makes no difference because your DOT effects are doing to do more damage than most specials will. Now, go play and let the adults talk.

You did not make a point with your videos, which is why I called them irrelevant. A lot of champions require energy to use their dots. That creates a situation where you have to use even more specific champions than usual... which means the node is *wait for it*... still hindering you. I don't know how simple logic is so hard for an "adult", but if you keep the toxic attitude, then you won't get that White Knight status you so desperately crave to give your empty life meaning.

Odachi

Did I witness op with a genuine comment followed up by a video of someone getting almost run over by mordo trying to prove a point to a question op never even asked and then continue to dig a whole to this fictional question with more screenshots of poorly finished fights without ever actually touching the true topic?

Love this forum sometimes.

https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?
How convenient that you failed to read the -90% power gain, and then post irrelevant propaganda videos.
Now, go play and let the adults talk.
Such an arrogant and un-need comment to finish your post.

I respond in kind. If you want to engage in a proper back and forth, I'm down but if you don't watch the videos, accuse me of not reading the nodes and call my videos propaganda, I'll respond appropriately.
The videos you posted don't do anything to counter OPs argument though. The relics do in fact punish the player if they don't have a relic equipped, as they still get the disadvantage without gaining any advantage. If the node was only in effect if a relic was equipped, then it wouldn't punish. So regardless of it has a big impact, regardless of the others nodes helping more than this one hurts, you are still by definition at a disadvantage by not using a relic.

OP literally said that they didn't see it as a big issue, just that it's a concerning sign going forward. You came in here high and mighty posting two cherry picked fights to counter an argument that never really existed is completely pointless. You're just creating a strawman argument to try and look correct.

NF w/o relic- 48 second fight
BWDO w/relic- 47 second fight 1 SP1 made.
BWDO w/relic- 40 second fight 1 SP1 made.
NF w/o relic- 52 second fight
Jabari w/relic- 1:11 second fight 1 SP1 made.

Let me know if running the entire path is still too cherry picked. I recorded the Quake fight at the end but cute the video off before I the stats screen popped up but you'll see that it wasn't a long fight either

I don't see any difference in the fights w/relics and the fights without. I don't see any advantage or disadvantage in using them or not using them and I'd even argue that just in general, these fights are long with relics for the whole path as it since I could only manage to get 1 special off in each fight even with 100% increased spirit meter. Regardless if you use a relic or not, this path, fights take longer than the other paths period. Even If I use a special, i'm only able to use it once.

While the relic is isn't either an advantage or disadvantage, the node design is a hinderance because you aren't getting as much power period as you do in the other paths.

Full video
https://youtu.be/34wTN4PWAng

Dude, you get a benefit for using a relic that you don't get if you do not have a relic equipped. This is, BY DEFINITION, a disadvantage.

As has been stated multiple times, even by the original post, it's not a big issue and it doesn't really effect the quest much. So your entire argument being "it isn't a big deal" is completely irrelevant because IT WAS EXPLICITELY STATED NOT TO BE A BIG DEAL. You're creating a strawman argument to make yourself right, when in reality you either didn't read all of what OP said or did read it and just want to argue for the sake of arguing.

OP was simply saying that he's concerned this might be a sign of things to come and that relic associated nodes might appear in future quests that cause a larger problem than in this one. What is so complicated for you to understand about that?

Stature

https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?
How convenient that you failed to read the -90% power gain, and then post irrelevant propaganda videos.
The whole point of both videos is to show that the -90% power gain is meaningless. I am very aware of what the node says my guy. You don't need to throw specials on that path. It truly makes no difference because your DOT effects are doing to do more damage than most specials will. Now, go play and let the adults talk.

The point is not about the -90% power gain but a node designed specifically to take away some qualities and then give them back only if a relic is used. That is not how relics are supposed to be used as per the statements by the designers of the game. Relics are supposed to provide a benefit, not hold to ransom what is already available. Once a node is designed to punish the absence of a relic, there is only one direction new content design is going to take.

GroundedWisdom

https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?
How convenient that you failed to read the -90% power gain, and then post irrelevant propaganda videos.
The whole point of both videos is to show that the -90% power gain is meaningless. I am very aware of what the node says my guy. You don't need to throw specials on that path. It truly makes no difference because your DOT effects are doing to do more damage than most specials will. Now, go play and let the adults talk.
The point is not about the -90% power gain but a node designed specifically to take away some qualities and then give them back only if a relic is used. That is not how relics are supposed to be used as per the statements by the designers of the game. Relics are supposed to provide a benefit, not hold to ransom what is already available. Once a node is designed to punish the absence of a relic, there is only one direction new content design is going to take.

That's what they provide, a benefit. They tied that benefit into a Node that was part of the challenge factor, and the point that it's doable without them isn't a moot one.
People don't HAVE to use them. If they choose not to, they're punishing themselves when something comes along that adds a benefit to doing so.

https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?
How convenient that you failed to read the -90% power gain, and then post irrelevant propaganda videos.
The whole point of both videos is to show that the -90% power gain is meaningless. I am very aware of what the node says my guy. You don't need to throw specials on that path. It truly makes no difference because your DOT effects are doing to do more damage than most specials will. Now, go play and let the adults talk.
The point is not about the -90% power gain but a node designed specifically to take away some qualities and then give them back only if a relic is used. That is not how relics are supposed to be used as per the statements by the designers of the game. Relics are supposed to provide a benefit, not hold to ransom what is already available. Once a node is designed to punish the absence of a relic, there is only one direction new content design is going to take.
That's what they provide, a benefit. They tied that benefit into a Node that was part of the challenge factor, and the point that it's doable without them isn't a moot one.
People don't HAVE to use them. If they choose not to, they're punishing themselves when something comes along that adds a benefit to doing so.

Kabam has stated before that relics are meant to be optional for the player base. I enjoy relics, I have no problem with using them especially after the removal cost getting removed. However, if they truly mean the relics to be optional then they need to design the nodes to only be in effect if the attacker has a relic equipped - make it so that yeah you get a boost for having one equipped but don't punish the player for not using one. Otherwise they are putting the player not using relics at a disadvantage, regardless of how small it may be.